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[ezekielpacman]

Who the fuck is paying you?
Seriously I cannot believe a normal gamer could write this. I don't want to believe a normal gamer could write this!

Pretty sure he is just trolling. I mean, he must be, right?

 

[Patryn]

How do they determine who your family is? They specifically say 'up to 10 family members' but how will they know if Joe Schmo is my brother or my friend?

As I've been saying, it's probably down to people having the same billing address on a credit card tied to the account (that will probably be required for this feature).

Or.... now that I can think about it, but they may use the whole 24-hour/1-hour thing. So it's 10 accounts that are primary on the same XBone. So if a bunch of friends get together, congrats, 9 of them just traded the 24-hour check-in for a mandatory 1-hour check-in instead, and only 1 of them can play a game at any time. And due to the 1-hour check, you can't have someone log on, start a game, and then cut their internet to "log-off" and allow someone else to play the same game at the same time for a long enough period to make it worthwhile.

Hmmm... maybe that is how they'll do it. They could also add a restriction that you can only add a game to your account on your primary system.

 

[FlyFaster]

So all this further solidifies the loss of consumer rights and options then. Great.

 

[Acorn]

Its crazy how some people are actively celebrating the death of consumer rights. Even if they don't care about them, which leads me to believe they are taking joy at the despair of people who do care about them. Disgusting.

 

[trmas]

This will probably work like the old Verizon friends and family call plans.

 

[Monty Mole]

I want to know, MS, what about third world countries where there are no Gamestops, nothing of that kind, where indie stores (or mom and pops stores, whatever) sell games, huh? Or am I going to be fucked over when I purchase your console?

They don't give a shit about the people with no money. They are targeting people who do have money to spend.

The 80/20 rule of business. Pareto's Law. They'll get 80% of their business from the 20% of the world's population who have money and broadband. No point in creating a console to instead target the 80% of the world's population who are only worth 20% of your potential business.


And that 80/20 rule applies to the entirety of Microsoft's next-gen strategy, including the % of people who are anal about graphics vs the people who will appreciate an all in one device with Kinect, and the % of people who care about DRM vs those who will just appreciate no discs. GAF is firmly in the 20% camp I'm afraid.

 

[commedieu]

lol.

If Sony follows, then Wii U future it is.

this isn't AS bad but it still is awful. Getting a pinecone up the butt is technically not as bad as ygetting shot in the nuts....doesn't make it desirable.

fucking shame.

bu-but we are listening gaaaiz

what the fuck?

its every item on everyones list confirmed.

what bullet was dodged?

 

[Perkel]

So, you CAN lend games to friends, but only up to 10 of them? And you can borrow as well using this method? Is that right? This is sort of confusing.

No you can have 10 family accounts and if someone use one from that pool other accounts can't be used

You can't borrow your game to your friend on family account. When he will play console you will not be able to play yours. Same with family.

Only one person can play from those 10 accounts.

 

[GoofsterStud]

Its not a logical step, they are two very very different companies. What one does is not necessarily what another might do. oh and am very calm, i might still buy the console but its probably 3 years down the line.

Nintendo didn't use DRM so it's only logical that Sony won't! After all it'd only be logical to compare a Japaneses company to another Japaneses company. Right?

LOL

 

[Krilekk]

http://news.xbox.com/2013/06/main

Highlights (lowlights?):


No renting, no loaning. No private sales (unless selling to someone who has been on your friends list for 30 days)

Console Checks in Every 24 hours

Trade-ins are up to the publisher and only at participating retailers

You can give a game to a friend only if they have been on your friends list for 30 days, and then it is stuck with them.

Up to 10 family members can play your games from any console at any time

This sucks. Would've been much better to block used games for x amount of days after launch and then return to the current situation.

 

[DoomGyver]

I'm out, fy microsoft. If Sony does the same with the PS4 I'm out as well.

I'll stick to Steam, handhelds, and Wii U.

This is my plan as well. I'm not going to tolerate this from either of them.

 

[shinra-bansho]

So basically, they were "We were listening, but we don't care what you want."

 

[robot]

We had a great run xbox, honestly don't think I can buy into this shit. Not even a matter of restricting me, more about principal.

The whole trade/transfer thing is confusing though. Will retailers have the ability to wipe away the one time transfer? Or if I give it to a friend, they won't be able to trade it in? How fucking stupid is that?

Did they confirm that only 1 person can play your game from the cloud at a time? Or can all 10 family members play it at once?

And I imagine the time it will take to download a game from the cloud to a friends console will take a while. The more I read these restrictions the angrier I get.

 

[Deleted member 752119]

This seems like they're willing to ride the storm for a while and looking at the long term.

By next gen ("xbone 2" - sorry, I love saying "xbone"), so many more people will never be buying physical media for anything - movies/music/games, and so a lot of this stuff will be all in the past: lending and selling games etc. And the next generation of gamers will have grown up in this era of no physical media so won't care about a lot of these things. And internet connections are only getting faster and better, so the connectivity won't be an issue either.

It fucking sucks that things are moving that way, I certainly don't support it and won't be buying anything like this. But just saying that is probably how MS are looking at it, in the long term, not just this launch.

Agreed.

Sucks for collectors. And really sucks for everyone if we have to pay $60 for digital games with restrictive licenses.

Other than the pricing though, I'm not opposed to going fully digital. The older I've gotten, and the more I care about how my place looks, the more I hate having a bunch of books I'll probably never read again, 300 some movies I seldom watch as I'd rather watch something new from Netflix, 300 some CDs I never listen to as they're all ripped etc. cluttering up the place.

With how seldom I revisit entertainment media, and given I'm not a collector at all and working to minimize my possessions as I want to move around a lot over my life and see the world, I really don't need to own media stuff. So I kind of look forward to a day when the internet is a lot faster and we can just pay monthly fees and stream any movie or album, borrow any ebook, play any game etc. rather than buying content on an individual basis.

But this is a FAR cry from that as they're wanting the same $60 per game for something we have less control with and don't really own. If we're going to move to digital content and not really owning it, then prices need to come way down.

 

[alr1ght]

Nothing crazy to me. I just want to play games.

They made it much more difficult for you. Now you need their permission.

 

[Portugeezer]

 

[Plinko]

The participating retailers part is pretty crappy. The 10 family members on any console is pretty neat though. Especially if they can play simultaneously.

Which you can't.

 

[see5harp]

As I've said before, blind brand loyalty to a corporation who could care less about you as an individual is the epitome of stupidity.

Here here. I was waiting for their official statement, and now that they've made it I can say that without some major changes, this is the worst shit I've ever heard of. I had every intention of being a customer on day one, even with the required online. The anti loan/rent/independent resaler stuff is just unforgiveable.

 

[Kusagari]

Major Nelson:

We are listening.

And laughing at how you guys think we care.

 

[Doctor_Thomas]

Anyone remember the Playstation Network outage?

Yeahhh. Hate to sound like a dick, but I cannot wait to see the result when that happens with the Xbone. "When", not "if". The people who do these kinds of things live to target DRM and closed-Internet enforcers, and this is by far the biggest and best target for them yet.

People are going to go beserk, and Microsoft is finally going to get the wake up call it's deserved for its behavior and business practices over the last few years. Thanks for your martyrdom in advance, Xboners. Your rage might just save the industry.

Let's face it, this thing will sell millions no matter what happens but if Live goes down Microsoft are going to have a very hard time recovering.

I already experienced the annoyance of not being able to play online or even play Final Fight: Double Impact at all when PSN was down and I wish that on no one but Microsoft have built a console entirely around their network stability and if it goes down your entire game library goes with it.

 

[Dan]

There will definitely be a "home" console, since otherwise they wouldn't be able to know what Xbone should use the 24 or the 1 hour check. I'm curious how they will tie this, because there's certainly some catch on this.

Yeah, there's definitely something. Anyone believing you'll be able to join a group of 10 gamers and all share games at reduced cost are fools. Not a fucking chance Microsoft does all of this and leaves that gaping loophole open.

 

[BigDug13]

is this the new "I don't know how much you know about Japanese culture (I'm an expert)..."

Yeah, making obvious statements that everyone should already know means I'm flaunting some sort of expertise on the subject.

 

[marc^o^]

"Family members" means "Same IP Address"

That would mean your game could be used by multiple persons on your console. Bold.

 

[Darknight]

A lot of people on Gaf are already convincing themselves that this horseshit is "reasonable."

Yup, pretty sad.

Not sure why anyone would put up with this shit. "Oh its not sooo bad, maybe a little hehe" Like f*** that man. Why are MS being so anti-consumer? And they shouldnt get a pass.

Its good they have some details but this info is not that great in that they are just confirming what we feared. 24 hour checks and limiting the reselling of games? Why cant they just have DRM for the digital versions of the XB1 games and leave retail disks alone?

 

[ironcreed]

This is going to change consumer buying habits irrevocably!

I swear they will do all this anti-consumer bullshit and they will just end up with less people buying their games.

Indeed.

 

[celebi23]

Fuck it. Staying with the 360 (that's if Microsoft doesn't shut down Live for us 360 owners) and probably building a kickass PC :/ Damn this shit is ridiculous >_<

 

[SlowRevolution]

Jim Sterling deserves special credit since May 21. He has not for one second allowed Microsoft to stomp all over him with PR nonsense. Sticking up for the consumers is the ONLY right thing to do as a game journalist; if you do not, get the fuck out

Schreier's also been consistently good about this, right?

 

[NullPointer]

Why the hell do people think this is like Steam?

I'm going to imagine its because they've never used it, or haven't used it in many years.

 

[dose]

I take it you have never read a software EULA?

I take it you know a EULA doesn't mean shit in Europe?

 

[Psychoward]

It's not, you can't give trade games on steam.....

or gift them.....

Yes you can...

 

[LegoArmo]

So me and my sister could play any of my games and any of her games, on two different Xboxs at the same time, both online? For the price of one copy?

 

[Trevelyon]

Maaaaan, I'm gonna game that '10 family membes' system so hard. Microsoft will never see me coming, OH NO!

Me and the lads are set for this gen.

 

[jett]

all of you corporate apologists defending this because of PIRACY.

so pathetic...
they are spitting in the eyes of gamers. fuck them. if Sony does this, fuck them too.

Obviously this doesn't have anything to do with piracy or used game sales even. This is just plain greed and abuse of your rights as a consumer.

 

[Wolves Evolve]

Worst part so far is Cliffy B, David Jaffe and other devs condescending to people.

"Over-reacting"?

Eat a massive interstellar cruiser full of shit.

 

[chris3116]

Yeah, zero chance that I'll get this thing.

 

[EdibleExplosives]

seriously.

I mean, what is that? you're that invested in a company you want everyone else to validate their shit decision so you can feel better about yourself?

fuck. you.

if Sony go down this road then they can shove the PS4 up their arse sideways for all I care. I'm not going to support either.

B-b-but my precious console war and company loyalty!

Seriously, no one should be wanting either company to go ahead with this shit.

Yup. this isn't an either or situation. If sony rolls out something similar, they deserve to get shit on, too- perhaps to a greater degree because they've had plenty of time to see the microsoft backlash.

Indeed.

 

[Silly.Mikey]

They've effectively banned used games. Yes, you can get them at Gamestop but that just means the Gamestop, and the publishers, will control the price.

This ends any type of free, secondary market for used games which will result in higher prices on ALL games, because the publishers will no longer have to lower a new game's price to compete with the used market.

Gaming is about to get really, really, really expensive compared to the current gen.

Not necessarily. Theres still other options like Steam out there. They cant very well charge 100$ on xbox and 50$ on steam for a new game that launches on both platforms same day. There has to be some sort of logic to the prices.

And Steam doesnt let you transfer games. I actually would love that on Steam.

 

[Raptor]

I take it you have never read a software EULA?

I can do that now with 360 games.

 

[Windu]

Pathetic.

does your internet connection really go out that much? mine hasn't been out for over 24 hrs without a power outage being the cause in a very, very long time.

 

[Raticus79]

Holy crap, this is an amazing positioning opportunity for Sony. I look forward to the announcement of their policy. It's going to be fireworks either way.

 

[Amir0x]

Looking at his history: yes, he did.

That one is not joking, shill as well.

Many of them aren't "people" as such.

It gets better when you start looking at the posting history of these accounts.

You find accounts with 40 posts that are only active to either defend Microsoft or shit on the products of one of its competitors, over years. You find people that implied XB1 hardware secret sauce right up to the reveal. Then you can start identifying the various diversionary tactics that have been designed to deflect from or counter genuine issues, and how they evolve over time. It's a dark place, and discovering it has made me a more angry poster.

That's why it pays to be cynical. These people defending this shit cannot possibly be serious. If they are, there's absolutely no way to relate to such insanity anyway, so it's still not worth bothering with them

 

[ebullientprism]

Yeah. Not buying.

My money is yours to lose now Sony. Bring this nonsense to the table and I just put that towards a PC upgrade.

 

[xxracerxx]

Why is 24 hours bad? I cannot think of a situation where your internet would be off for longer than 24 hours besides when you're moving to a new house or your power was knocked out by a hurricane. Essentially it is the same system as steam only with a few improvements regarding trading.

Come the fuck on. You really think everyone has their systems hooked up to the internet all the time? (Note I said everyone, don't say most do).

 

[quickwhips]

pretty cool I can buy a huge amount of games and my 10 closest friends can browse my online library now and play them when I'm not. I really like the idea. Can you do that on steam now? You could do this on PSN i think for like 4 copies or something correct?

 

[jtb]

Well, then take the argument a step further. Lets assume that everyone actually has no problem getting a broadband connection in the 21st century.

What the hell happens when the servers go down for an extended period of time?

If a console has to call home, they need an actual home to call, so what happens if there's no one home?

We'd still be screwed either way.

hey, I think it's terrible to tether users to Microsoft's servers, which have a proven track record of being constantly down for maintenance and unreliable.

I'm just shitting on that particular argument. like I said, it's not a defense of microsoft. i'm not pro-microsoft, i'm anti-nonsensicial arguments

 

[-PXG-]

I just want to take a moment and thank all of the fine folks at Microsoft for convincing me to never consider buying a Xbox One, ever. I'm so happy that you killed every last bit of excitement and good will I had for your next console. Don't worry, it's all gone. I couldn't care less about it now. Thank you for making my decision so much easier. I really appreciate it. My life now has meaning. My mind is at peace. Thanks a million.

Sony....please....don't fuck this up. Don't force me to miss out on a bunch of cool games all over greedy, anti-consumer nonsense. I need more than my PC and Wii U in my gaming life. Handhelds are cool, but don't do as much for me as stationary consoles do. Please.....I beg you. Don't fuck this up.

 

[artist]

A lot of people on Gaf are already convincing themselves that this horseshit is "reasonable."

It's not a lot, just a small group.

 

[BlazingDarkness]

This policy is awesome. I'm ready for the future.

Banned

I'm guessing this was one of Bish's interesting registered email users, lol.

 

[Of All Trades]

Just gonna leave this here.
It's not possible for Sony to have a similar licensing infrastructure, because the console does not need to access the internet.

The literal text of what you posted has Sony saying they did not consider a DRM scheme similar to what Ubisoft used and later dropped because it was so severe. The XBONE is not "always-online". A console that needs to check in every 24 hours is not "always-online".

 

[iNvid02]

yes, yes you were

yo move sony