Support NeoGAF

[Liberty4all]

If they try to sweep something under the rug like this on the internet... where nothing is forgotten, well then I just don't understand Microsoft as a company. It's better to get ahead of this shit and own it. This wishy-washy stuff reeks of a lack of confidence in their own product.

I feel like I'm in bizarro land when I think of this console. Like, MS's building a fucking Atari Jaguar in 2013, a fucking Virtual Boy even. WTF are they thinking?!

they aren't. It's sheer unmitigated hubris.

 

[Mr. Enigma]

This has got to be the most intriguing E3 leading into a next generation that I can ever remember. It almost feels like Sony has a real chance to drop a death blow on the Xbox One before the machines even launch. If Sony says "No DRM/No Internet Ever Required" on the stage tomorrow, it'll be hard for me to believe it's not already game over for the X1.

I honestly can't see Mark Cerny wanting anything to do with this DRM nonsense.

 

[SwiftDeath]

You should read what CBoat posted. He basically said it was MS who pushed DRM idea and the big 3 sorta agreed to it. So its possibly that Sony doesnt have to do this as it wasnt something 3rd partied wanted in the first place. Things not looking for MS still though as these leaks make them look worse.

Oh and DRM policy is worse than what we know, now....and its coming soon!

Yes I just become aware of Cboat's new info

If MS really did push for DRM, then they are far more evil than I could have ever imagined

I hope they crash and burn with the X1

 

[soulassssns]

Holy crap, I'm laughing so hard I'm crying here: BONED.

That was hilarious

 

[Lupin the Third]

Remember Sony's DRM patent from January? IF they have DRM on PS4 and haven't abandoned ship, that's probably what it will be.

Think of it as Online Pass 2.0. Here's how I envision it: you buy a used PS4 disc, and the RFID tag is mismatched with the console. You pay a fee via PSN to unlock the disc, it re-registers the tag, all's well. You can play it in 'trial mode' as if it's a 2-day rental or a demo or something if you don't pay the Pass fee.

Less intrusive, still possible. Makes all other Sony statements true (can still play used games, doesn't require always-online, etc.).

 

[KidBeta]

Remember Sony's DRM patent from January? IF they have DRM on PS4 and haven't abandoned ship, that's probably what it will be.

Think of it as Online Pass 2.0. Here's how I envision it: you buy a used PS4 disc, and the RFID tag is mismatched with the console. You pay a fee via PSN to unlock the disc, it re-registers the tag, all's well. You can play it in 'trial mode' as if it's a 2-day rental or a demo or something if you don't pay the Pass fee.

Less intrusive, still possible. Makes all other Sony statements true (can still play used games, doesn't require always-online, etc.).

If this is true the hackers are going to have soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo much fun. It'd be trivial to break.

 

[Templar_Dante]

I fully expect the PS4 to come out with similar DRM policies to be honest

This must have been brought to the console makers by a coalition of the biggest publishers, EA probably leading the charge

So I see no reason to believe PS4 will come without similar restrictions

So my question to you is at what point is progress not worth the freedoms, rights, and benefits you have to sacrifice to participate?

Why do I need Microsoft's permission to play my games?

Games that I pay full ticket price for?

No, no thank you

I am out, plain and simple

The publishers don't want my business, that's up to them but I'm done. This is where I draw the line, this is where I will not compromise, where I will not give into their anti-consumer bullcrap

+1
Its not just that either, I dont trust MS. When you buy a console, its not a keepsake for a year or two. I do believe they will have great hardcore games the first year or two, the second after that, its full on casuals. Im not gambling on that again. After Gears 3, I felt their core games werent coming in as fast as I would have liked and the focus on casuals made me
Fool me once.. shame on you..
You wont fool me twice!

 

[dose]

At some point, progress requires change and change can be painful.

Why should we accept change when it's totally anti-consumer? I don't see what they're doing as progress.

 

[Jack_AG]

I think the PS4 looks fantastic and we'll wait and see what the drm situation is with that, but I don't get people loosing their minds over the 24 hour check in thing. At some point, progress requires change and change can be painful. It's the same thing with backwards compatibility. At some point, carrying all this stuff into future generations becomes a hindrance to progress. My internet is great. If I can't game for an hour because my internet is down I'm not going to loose my mind. I've never used Steam offline mode. I don't want to be accused of being MS defence force, but there's not much to say about the PS4, they've only talked about games. We are yet to get the details on how their DRM will work.

At no point should this change require giving up my rights to MS.

Are you a shill? Serious question. At first you open up with positive PS4 jargon to break the ice, talk about how change is needed, then end with saying there's not much to say about the PS4.

Good vibes on PS4
But change is good
Can't say much about the competition

No. Fuck your paragraph. You aren't consistently holding a view. Change is fine. Fucking the consumer in the process isn't. I hope you roll with an X1 and spend hundreds of dollars a year then have your XBL account banned because you said the word "fuck" in a game online and no longer have access to anything you purchased. THAT is what MS wants. No control over what you purchase.

If Sony does the same or similar then fuck them, too. I am not held to any platform. Fuck this DRM.

 

[Heretic]

my goodness...

 

[Mael]

I think the PS4 looks fantastic and we'll wait and see what the drm situation is with that, but I don't get people loosing their minds over the 24 hour check in thing. At some point, progress requires change and change can be painful. It's the same thing with backwards compatibility. At some point, carrying all this stuff into future generations becomes a hindrance to progress. My internet is great. If I can't game for an hour because my internet is down I'm not going to loose my mind. I've never used Steam offline mode. I don't want to be accused of being MS defence force, but there's not much to say about the PS4, they've only talked about games. We are yet to get the details on how their DRM will work.

I liked you better when you posted this

Seriously, why do video game makers think they're entitled to something that no other producers are? The sense of entitlement is really off-putting. I know there are age old arguments in this area, but if I buy my house from somebody I don't have to listen to the housebuilders complain about used sales costing them so much money. I can go out, break the law, and get your game for free. In order for me to buy it second hand somebody else had to buy it so stop making people putting legit money into your industry feel guilty because of it FFS. The craziest part about the used game industry is the prices people will pay for used games. Maybe that's telling you that gaming is becoming too expensive? Be more realistic with your budgets.

 

[ShinobiFist]

Holy crap, I'm laughing so hard I'm crying here: BONED.

Damn, LOL!

 

[Skunkers]

This has got to be the most intriguing E3 leading into a next generation that I can ever remember. It almost feels like Sony has a real chance to drop a death blow on the Xbox One before the machines even launch. If Sony says "No DRM/No Internet Ever Required" on the stage tomorrow, it'll be hard for me to believe it's not already game over for the X1.

I honestly can't see Mark Cerny wanting anything to do with this DRM nonsense.

I said something similar in another thread I think but here goes:

Ideally, you'd be totally right. In the real world, I really fear the Xbox dudebro crowd are simply going to charge into Xbone without a second thought and just be all "Meh" when they find out about the DRM and just go with it anyway, just like they did with paying for Live this gen. Sony allowing pub's to do it will just mean that there will be little effective difference between the two. That's worst case scenario.

Best case scenario, MS bets on this and loses big time; that combined with actual feature parity and the superor PS+ make PS4 win next-gen by miles.

Middle ground scenario: Both systems have really strong launches, Xbone gets massive backlash shortly after launch when the market realizes how shitty these practices are. Sometime after they both launch PS4 sales are still soaring while Xbone sales tank in the wake of the backlash, queue E3 a year or two from now, MS make an NGE-style revamp where they relax the DRM restrictions from that point on (here's to wishing anyway lol).

 

[Game Guru]

Yes and no in my mind

Very much the case with music where physical media is usually only bought by purists/collectors etc.

But there's a large chunk of consumers who still buy blu-rays as they prefer a higher quality of video and streaming services are unreliable, downloads quickly hit bandwidth caps

In my mind as we move into 4k movies, physical media for movies will very much still be alive and not restricted like games will be

The X1 should've just been a digital only console, not that I would be any more willing to buy it mind you but at least then it's honest about its intentions

I think that there are advantages and disadvantages for both physical media and digital media. I would say that the fact that CDs somehow still exist and that vinyl has somehow made a comeback likely means that physical media will coexist with digital media for the foreseeable future. Yes, CD and Vinyl cater to the hardcore fan, but isn't the hardcore fan more likely to spend their money on physical objects? If I'm a fan of a particular artist, a CD from Amazon would be a much more economical buy than equivalent MP3s, especially since I can rip it in iTunes. For books, it would be the same way... The hardcore fan is going to pay more to collect a physical object even if they have the digital ebook as well.

As for movies and console games, there are technical challenges for digital downloads of them as bandwidth and speeds have not caught up to support quick digital downloads. Otherwise, wouldn't Xbox One have actually gone fully digital rather than this half-and-half solution?

It's generally inherently disposable media that has been adversely affected by digital like comics, newspapers, magazines, and movie rentals. These are types of media that people subscribe to, use, and then dispose of, so digital killing the physical versions makes sense.

 

[Dash Kappei]

check out this video about the new XBONED!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4r_1a20guc

Oh god I lost it at the kinect peekaboo

 

[Freshmaker]

I would love nothing more than Sony to announce no DRM on a console level but from what I've read and from the quotes I've seen. There's no actual statement that Sony isn't providing Publishers with the DRM tool, just that Sony won't require it on their games

The DRM tool?

Sony could just let EA run an Origin client on the PS4 or something.

In my mind Sony could have pretty much the same system as X1 but let you play games in offline mode if that game had been registered (authenticated) online at a previous point

Strange since Sony never built the infrastructure necessary for this unlike MS.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Holy crap, I'm laughing so hard I'm crying here: BONED.

The content owner has not made this video available on mobile.

What the fuck?

 

[Cheesemeister]

The content owner has not made this video available on mobile.

What the fuck?

Sorry, it's not my video. Try viewing it on a PC.

 

[robertsan21]

Im out! There is no way I will be on Xbox again. MS needs to fail this gen and hopefully pirates and hackers will draw towards Xbox one like flies to shit!

 

[Origami Superman]

Holy crap, I'm laughing so hard I'm crying here: BONED.

WOW.

The Kinect sneaking into the bathroom, lmao.

 

[Rhazer Fusion]

Holy crap, I'm laughing so hard I'm crying here: BONED.

LOL Awesome work.

 

[Game Guru]

Sony could just let EA run an Origin client on the PS4 or something.

Hell, the implication of just allowing EA and Ubisoft to run their Origin and Uplay clients on PS4 would also mean that Valve could run a Steam client on PS4. It's not the best outcome, but it would mean that buying a PS4 game would eventually also net a person a digital PC version from one of those three services.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Sorry, it's not my video. Try viewing it on a PC.

All right, I watched it. What song is that?

 

[Freshmaker]

Hell, the implication of just allowing EA and Ubisoft to run their Origin and Uplay clients on PS4 would also mean that Valve could run a Steam client on PS4. It's not the best outcome, but it would mean that buying a PS4 game would eventually also net a person a digital PC version from one of those three services.

They all already have had implementations on current gen consoles to one degree or another. It wouldn't be much of a stretch.

 

[RELIGHT]

all the other threads are hype thread, yet this one feels like an Anti hype thread lol

Microsoft brought this on themselves. The Xbox One is the most anti-consumer console ever created.

 

[Deadly Joker]

Microsoft brought this on themselves. The Xbox One is the most anti-consumer console ever created.

Amen.

 

[Hoya Destroyer]

The 24 hour check in is the thing that makes the xbone a product I will never buy.
The thought of needing MS's "ok" to play a game I just paid $60-80 for, is unacceptable.

 

[Cheesemeister]

All right, I watched it. What song is that?

ABBA's Super Trouper.

 

[test_account]

It's a slow process for sure, but it's happening. There's a verdict from the EU court of justice against Oracle saying that first sale applies to digital downloads as well. Claiming it's a license changes nothing. If that stands, Valve will have to comply and make second hand sales available for EU customers. But I guess someone will have to sue Valve first.

I see. Yeah, maybe it will go through, but if it takes 5+ years, maybe it is too "late" (then the Xbox One is already old). But we will see what happends They (Valve etc.) would have to come up with a system that allows used digital copies to be sold. I guess they would have to do what Microsoft is apparently doing, giving certain retailers some system that removes the digital copy from you account when selling it.

When the European Comission wants to make an example or needs an extra few hundred million euros you can bet things can move quickly. Just ask Microsoft.

That is true Although i have no idea how long the case against Microsoft actually took. Afterall, Internet Explorer have been included in Windows for so many years now, so the case might have taken years for all that i know.

 

[BolognaSoup]

I think the PS4 looks fantastic and we'll wait and see what the drm situation is with that, but I don't get people loosing their minds over the 24 hour check in thing. At some point, progress requires change and change can be painful. It's the same thing with backwards compatibility. At some point, carrying all this stuff into future generations becomes a hindrance to progress. My internet is great. If I can't game for an hour because my internet is down I'm not going to loose my mind. I've never used Steam offline mode. I don't want to be accused of being MS defence force, but there's not much to say about the PS4, they've only talked about games. We are yet to get the details on how their DRM will work.

I also don't care about the 24 hour check in. It's the way it changes the used game/game loan situation that kills this console for me. That and Kinect required.

 

[Antiwhippy]

I would love nothing more than Sony to announce no DRM on a console level but from what I've read and from the quotes I've seen. There's no actual statement that Sony isn't providing Publishers with the DRM tool, just that Sony won't require it on their games

You do realise that the DRM tool is already in place on the PS3 right? It's just that very few games use it.

 

[SmokedMeat]

It's interesting that different things are turning people off to Xbone. It's like a Hydra monster with each head representing a different anti-consumer feature.

 

[Neverwinter27]

You mean there are more than 7 kinds of deal breakers UltramanJ?

 

[MercuryLS]

My takeaways from this:

1) I get the feeling that DRM for Xbox One will probably get worse over time. MS can change policies on a whim.

2) "Infinite power of the cloud" = eventual justification for always online for SP and MP a la Sim City.

Never have I seen a console manufacture self-immolate this badly before launch. Won't be touching this machine, and this is comine from someone who's bought all consoles the last two cycles. If Sony does the same thing they can fuck off too, I'll build a HTPC, hook it up to my HDTV, run steam big picture and use an Xbox One controller.

Fucking called it.

 

[HEALTH_DISCO]

I fully expect the PS4 to come out with similar DRM policies to be honest

This must have been brought to the console makers by a coalition of the biggest publishers, EA probably leading the charge

So I see no reason to believe PS4 will come without similar restrictions

So my question to you is at what point is progress not worth the freedoms, rights, and benefits you have to sacrifice to participate?

Why do I need Microsoft's permission to play my games?

Games that I pay full ticket price for?

No, no thank you

I am out, plain and simple

The publishers don't want my business, that's up to them but I'm done. This is where I draw the line, this is where I will not compromise, where I will not give into their anti-consumer bullcrap

Then why Sony would advertise their console beeing oriented towards Indie DEV ?
And can someone tell me how the Japanese consumers react to the console going Digital only/no used games ? Can you even rent a game in Japan ?

 

[Steph_E.]

Exactly.

It is confusing, though, that Sony already clearly stated that PS4 won't require any internet connectivity. Either (a) they where not fully accurate/true on this and will in effect (e.g. through publishers) have a similar DRM system or (b) Sony won't have a comparable DRM system. But then Microsoft would be playing a very bold game if they pull this shit off on their own.

Possibly playing devils advocate, but Xbox one doesn't require internet connectivity either - it is only required if you want to play games

 

[Naked Lunch]

Im still confused on a lot of these details.

Can multiple users in your same household play the same game at once? In other words, can you get away with buying only 1 copy of say Battlefield but be able to play on 2 separate systems at the same time?

 

[milkham]

Im still confused on a lot of these details.

Can multiple users in your same household play the same game at once? In other words, can you get away with buying only 1 copy of say Battlefield but be able to play on 2 separate systems at the same time?

from the wording, maybe. but there's no way to know for sure until MS lets someone ask them and is willing to answer in detail.