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[NullPointer]

What it probably means is you can have 10 profiles on a single xbox.

Its not limited to a single box.

There's most likely a "home" box though.

 

[Mpl90]

There are lots of advantages, Phil Spencer said so, like cloud saves and uh... the infinite power of the cloud.

Infintie power of the cloud will save us all, don't forget it.

 

[jtb]

Exactly. DRM on PC is a necessary evil. On consoles, it's not necessary, it's just evil.

I don't know if I agree with that. -snip because people don't seem to understand when something is tongue-in-cheek-

but the issue seems to be DRM is a means to an end—the end of cutting down on resale. so, for me (and I assume most gamers) the issue is not being able to resell games and PC games have never had a great track record with that. more pertinently, PC was much quicker on the DD bandwagon than consoles were and DD, by nature, clamps down on reselling—and that's DD of any nature, whether it's apps, games, music, movies, etc.—so I don't think it was "necessary" on PC at all. It's the just the nature of moving to a digital future.

again, if Xbone had gone DD only—none of this would be an issue. because resale is not an expectation of digital goods, only physical goods.

 

[KingFire]

Surprisingly more consumer-friendly than Steam.

 

[MightyHedgehog]

I think all of the policies they announced are logical extensions of the fact that this is a digital-only console. The "retail" titles, such as they are, are like Steamworks games. It's not a retail+digital console, it's a digital-only console. I mean, imagine if a competitor to Steam popped up that had all of these policies. It'd be fairly standard--in some respect forward-thinking (being able to transfer a game you own to a friend, even once, is better than what Steam has right now; being able to trade in at select retailers is better than what Steam has now for both the retailer and the customer), in other respects a little behind the curve (offline mode being a 24 hour limit) I don't personally have a problem with digital only, I've got 600 games on Steam. And I'm generally a pretty future-proof kind of guy, none of my computers have optical drives anymore. I use Dropbox for everything. I love tablets I'm not someone who typically needs to be encouraged to adopt new tech or who worries about trading off the stability of current options for the cutting edge of new options.

But here are the problems:
1) No one views these policies as an advantage in any digital-only platform. They're a necessary evil. And they're one that's overcome with sweeteners. One sweetener is pricing. In Steam that's manifested in a few ways--frequent and steep sales on the whole catalogue, and the ability for developers to produce unlimited keys for free (and thus for third party resellers to sacrifice margin for volume and offer discounts). Will Xbox One games be $35 to pre-order? Will they drop to $5 within 6 months? I doubt it.

2) Digital-only PC platforms emerged in response to the decline of retail. Retail has not declined for consoles. It's still there. The Xbox One's direct competitors will have retail space. And the direct competitors will not necessarily have these policies. Maybe Microsoft ends up correctly predicting the future and riding the wave in advance, but it seems like Microsoft's competitors are healthy enough that this is too much too soon.

3) There exists no digital-only platform that requires an ongoing membership fee (or that encourages an ongoing membership fee). Ongoing membership fees tend to be for unlimited, all-access type services like Netflix--or even in the more limited form, Playstation Plus, or discount programs like Amazon Prime or Costco membership. It's true that Gold exists today, but today there's a platform that doesn't necessarily need the kind of sweeteners that the One will need.

So, I guess my conclusion is that given that we now know that Xbox One is a digital-only, not digital-first system, the policies are fairly unremarkable and the next question becomes how Microsoft will blunt these inherent limitations of digital-only systems and show advantages.

Nice round up. I think the new fold will be that Gold isn't required for anything, like accessing things in your cloud account or now a digital library, just whatever features are locked behind the paywall. It'd be interesting to see MS kinda-sorta drop Gold, but probably not going to happen. I expect that third party publishers are entirely behind these changes and that PS4 will also receive very similar if not identical DRM.

 

[webkatt]

Fears confirmed. Not as bad as I imagined but why the hell do I want agree to this crap.

Peace out MS, it's been fun but eff you for trying to eff me.

 

[Speevy]

The 24 hour thing is straight up diabolical.

I can't even imagine why the costs of letting people play offline would outweigh the benefits.

You're talking about people who just want to play games under any circumstance.

 

[DC1]

I want to stab the motherfucker who composed this paragraph in the fucking eyeball.

Yep.
- Games are locked on to ONE console only or
- A game can be given to a friend ONCE and then blocked from every been shared again... meaning that the game would be married to the second console for life.
Unless ...
- The game is traded through a participating establishment; effectively starting the cycle over again (and passing money back to MS, the Publisher and the Dev).


Edit: It looks like it shared with 10 friends on any consoles! But.. I'm still mad!

 

[chadskin]

Somewhere, in the ivory towers Ballmer, Mattrick, Spencer and Harrison are hiding ...

(Credit to someone who posted this on GAF a few days ago. Can't remember who, though. Please identify yourself, if you like.)

 

[Mrbob]

Alright, let's do this

Steam came into existence because pc gaming was starting to slow. Piracy was rampant, from was hilariously awful and usually pirates had better copies, sales were down and companies were leaving the pc market.

Steam has to exist as it does now because of this. Piracy is a huge problem on the pc. It always has been, and steam has to exist for the pc market to be sustainable to big publishers. It's a safe harbor and provides protection for publishers and ample benefits to consumers. A trade off. Both sides get what they want in a reliable, easy to use drm system.

With the Xbox one, none of that needed to exist. There's no threat of piracy. And this isn't a trade off, we're not getting any benefit. This system doesn't have to exist on a console.

And if you don't like steam, you can enjoy a near endless supply of pc games that don't require steam. Id like to see you ignore this say stem but still use the Xbox one.

People saying its just like steam are just trying to deflect the issue and are basically ignorant to why steam needs to exist and why it's tolerated. Sales are only a piece of it.

As Stump already alluded already, Valve has put a bunch a sweeteners around Steam which do not exist for Xbone.

Can you imagine anything similar to Steam Workshop being available on Xbox One? Yeah right, gotta sell all that DLC. Why have a huge community of user created content to have access too?

The only things I see similar between Xbox One and Steam is DRM required to play a game and no used game selling.

 

[goldenpp72]

So, is ebay fucked with this aspect?

 

[Toki767]

Do I still get 20 MSP on my birthday?

No MSP on the Xbox One.

 

[Majanew]

PLEASE let this console be a colossal fucking failure. PLEASE. Send this industry a message that this bullshit is unacceptable.

 

[Anth0ny]

This shit is fuuuuuuuuucked.

 

[Lynd7]

Geez, no one should be supporting this rubbish. I will never buy this console and I will inform as many people as I can to do the same.

If people just take this, the future is going to be terrible. Goodbye retro gamers...

 

[nero2082]

Do I still get 20 MSP on my birthday?

 

[nbthedude]

Wait, so THIS is their version of appeasement? Oh god, what is their version of fucking us in the ass?

It's when one year from no there are NO used games and NO borrowing privledges for anything and that "family settings" stuff gets phased out.

This "compromise" is just a middle step until it gradually becomes that no dev supports it and it goes away quietely.

 

[Of All Trades]

There are lots of advantages, Phil Spencer said so, like cloud saves and uh... the infinite power of the cloud.

The family sharing thing is a straight-up sweetener. It's also pretty much the only sweetener (unless MS decides to make things as complicated for themselves as possible and try to heavily restrict it).

 

[Flying Toaster]

This is going to be an interesting E3. I really don't know what to say about all this except that I won't be getting an Xbox One now. Stupid draconian crap policies being created here.

 

[Coffee Dog]

PC gaming is kinda dead

are you kidding me

and piracy is rampant.

Prove to me that that has anything to do with how the PC market is performing.

 

[Speevy]

I wish I could, but I'm trying to avoid them. All I know is it's an animated gif that I've been purposely scrolling by really quick because I noticed it was GoT but I don't know the context of it yet since I still haven't caught up. Hopefully someone who already knows can point you to the exact gif.

Honestly, I think you could pretty well argue that every animated gif from every movie or television show fits this description.

 

[Amir0x]

The 24 hour thing is straight up diabolical.

I can't even imagine why the costs of letting people play offline would outweigh the benefits.

You're talking about people who just want to play games under any circumstance.

31 million Xbox 360 owners never got a Silver or Gold Xbox Live account and hardly ever connected to the internet whatsoever.

31 million

butLOL no big deal guys, it's the future! You buy a physical copy of a thing and don't actually own it! Hurray!

 

[Flightmare]

Uhh wat

https://twitter.com/BenKuchera/status/342784210328776704

Disgusting

 

[dreamer3kx]

Not one good thing here, cant anyone say different, just bad, comparing to steam is a joke, this is a console, mothers and fathers will be purchasing and not having one clue.

 

[RyanReedyMusic]

Does not change my mind one way or the other. Im still getting it day one and PS4 day one.

 

[ZeroEdge]

Watch they released this news now so come Monday they won't have to mention it in their conference at all. It's also probably why they cancelled all their meetings afterwards I bet. Watch MS just waltz in pretend nothing fucking happened present some games be super excited then leave before anyone can ask them about how this policy applies to the games they just showed...I fucking bet my account on it.

 

[Puppet Shadow]

So your rights as a consumer are very important to you...unless the price is right?

Why do you think ios and android games / apps sell millions?

 

[Hystzen]

Geez I hate be working in gaming retail after this is launched and they start coming back complaining things are not working.

I wonder how clear Microsoft are going to spell out the rules for mainstream public or will they even bother to say things clearly

 

[elementalsin]

Hmm...sounds entirely reasonable. I'm sure there will be quibbles, though. Love the future of cloud if it means no more fucking discs.

I agree. I mentioned in another thread, I know this could cause issues for some (overseas troops and the like) and thats a shame. I wonder if there is a possible solution for that? Account status perhaps for service people that would allow a different setup? Although it would probably be exploited or ridiculous to setup.

 

[Bad_Boy]

sony please don't do this shit.

 

[digoutyoursoul]

And only a week before the Xbox Reveal Aaron Greenberg was talking on Major Nelsons podcast gleaming for nearly 20 minutes with stats about how successful gaming is compared to movies, music etc

AND NOW THIS?

Greed, pure greed.

 

[Playsation_]

Now its time for Sony to speak up.

 

[Impeccable]

Does not change my mind one way or the other. Im still getting it.

I bet you fucking are.

 

[YuriLowell]

Its not limited to a single box.

There's most likely a "home" box though.

Ya thats what I was implying.

All profiles originate from a home console, and each xbox can be host to 10 profiles is what im thinking.

 

[anexanhume]

So, is ebay fucked with this aspect?

Yes. You would have to have the buyer add you as a friend, wait 30 days, and have the publisher allow game trading to a friend.

 

[BlazingDarkness]

The best bit would be if MS require a Gold subscription to play any games that require DA POWER OF ZE CLOUDZ.

 

[Hot Coldman]

OK, sorry if I'm asking a stupid question/missed a vital piece of info somehow...

But does this mean publishers can essentially say "yo fuck that" and have games you can freely resell on Xbone?

 

[jtb]

are you kidding me



Prove to me that that has anything to do with how the PC market is performing.

that was a joke dammit. like I said, piracy isn't the reason why DRM is an issue. this is not, and has never been, an issue about DRM. no one cares about DRM because piracy is bad and I think we all agree that it is bad. people care about being able to resell shit.

 

[NoirVisage]

DON'T IGNORE THE POSSIBILITIES!!

 

[notoccupanther]

Nick Knack Paddywhack give a dog an xBone

 

[komaruR]

the most important part!!

Loaning or renting games won’t be available at launch, but we are exploring the possibilities with our partners.

 

[Gammacide]

Wow. I honestly cannot believe how awful this is for consumers. Plus why in the name of all that is good would they make this SO FUCKING COMPLICATED??? Gamers should look on today with a great sense of loss and should watch the MS conference with a sense of butthurt that comes from every word the assholes on stage stab into their figurative and respective anuses. What a horrendous pile of rubbish.

 

[Raxus]

Worst thing about the announcement has to be the 24 hour check in. Not only does it hurt fighting game fans it also is a blow against our troops. When deployed they don't have a stable internet connection so they can no longer play Xbone at base. All it will be is an overpriced cable box.

 

[Deleted member 752119]

Damn if rentals are gone, games should either be on sale all the time, or drop in price much faster like they do on Steam.

Maybe they'll just start doing timed trials for all games like some games do on PS+ now?

Maybe they'll also do digital rentals too with some daily fee, and you own the game if you rent it enough days to have paid the full purchase price?

Still sucks for people who rent since there wouldn't be any competition on rental prices. I haven't rent a game in probably 15 years so moot for me personally. But still a crappy move in any case.

 

[Alej]

You're being dishonest.

At least we know for sure that he has an agenda.

 

[falconzss]

who's mutedpenguin? industry/journalism/gaffer?

Don't know but I'm going to follow him from now on.

 

[jaypah]

Soooo...MS decided to shit directly into its own mouth? What is this, I don't even, have you ever had a dream, sshhhhh, only wtf now. GG MS. The arrogance is actually scary. If I thought they would be the Steam of consoles (discounts and such) I could dig it. But I have no faith in MS using this opportunity to do anything to help the gaming community. I literally laughed out loud while shaking my head. Lsomlh MS, lsomlh.

 

[stktt]

I think all of the policies they announced are logical extensions of the fact that this is a digital-only console. The "retail" titles, such as they are, are like Steamworks games. It's not a retail+digital console, it's a digital-only console. I mean, imagine if a competitor to Steam popped up that had all of these policies. It'd be fairly standard--in some respect forward-thinking (being able to transfer a game you own to a friend, even once, is better than what Steam has right now; being able to trade in at select retailers is better than what Steam has now for both the retailer and the customer), in other respects a little behind the curve (offline mode being a 24 hour limit) I don't personally have a problem with digital only, I've got 600 games on Steam. And I'm generally a pretty future-proof kind of guy, none of my computers have optical drives anymore. I use Dropbox for everything. I love tablets I'm not someone who typically needs to be encouraged to adopt new tech or who worries about trading off the stability of current options for the cutting edge of new options.

But here are the problems:
1) No one views these policies as an advantage in any digital-only platform. They're a necessary evil. And they're one that's overcome with sweeteners. One sweetener is pricing. In Steam that's manifested in a few ways--frequent and steep sales on the whole catalogue, and the ability for developers to produce unlimited keys for free (and thus for third party resellers to sacrifice margin for volume and offer discounts). Will Xbox One games be $35 to pre-order? Will they drop to $5 within 6 months? I doubt it.

2) Digital-only PC platforms emerged in response to the decline of retail. Retail has not declined for consoles. It's still there. The Xbox One's direct competitors will have retail space. And the direct competitors will not necessarily have these policies. Maybe Microsoft ends up correctly predicting the future and riding the wave in advance, but it seems like Microsoft's competitors are healthy enough that this is too much too soon.

3) There exists no digital-only platform that requires an ongoing membership fee (or that encourages an ongoing membership fee). Ongoing membership fees tend to be for unlimited, all-access type services like Netflix--or even in the more limited form, Playstation Plus, or discount programs like Amazon Prime or Costco membership. It's true that Gold exists today, but today there's a platform that doesn't necessarily need the kind of sweeteners that the One will need.

So, I guess my conclusion is that given that we now know that Xbox One is a digital-only, not digital-first system, the policies are fairly unremarkable and the next question becomes how Microsoft will blunt these inherent limitations of digital-only systems and show advantages.

This is essentially how I feel.

 

[SenjutsuSage]

There it is. The Steam Box. Finally. Unfortunately you have to pay 70$ per game and there are no Steam deals. But who cares?

Want to know why those steam deals happen in the first place? Because people can't resell and trade games to people. If people want a game on steam, they have to pay whatever the developer or publisher is charging for the game, meaning money is always going directly to the developer and publisher.

With such extra security and guarantees on their payments, it's no wonder that they will often get aggressive in pricing on some of their older games by selling them for $15, $10, or even less, because they can make a few extra, guaranteed bucks on the side, because there is no used games market to exclude them from reaping those benefits on Steam. The fact that nobody or so few on GAF, a site where we are, I guess, suppose to know more than the average mainstream gamer, gets this is simply mind boggling.

You get those deals on steam because there are no used games or game trading, period.

 

[KHarvey16]

Yep.
- Games are locked on to ONE console only or
- A game can be given to a friend ONCE and then blocked from every been shared again... meaning that the game would be married to the second console for life.
Unless ...
- The game is traded through a participating establishment; effectively starting the cycle over again (and passing money back to MS, the Publisher and the Dev).

I didn't read it that way at all. I think you can only share a game once, meaning you can't gift it to two people. I imagine that once whoever you give it to has it they can give it to someone else. But without some kind of system other than requiring you to be friends for 30 days it still doesn't fill the needs of private sellers.