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Media Create Sales: Week 28, 2013 (Jul 08 - Jul 14)

Road

Member
Why do people think 3D World will do any better than NSMBU? Why will it be the exception to the 2D Mario > 3D Mario rule?

Do you think NSMBU underperformed only because it was released too close to NSMB2 and since 3D Land was 2 years ago 3D World will have more people interested in it? Or is there any other reason?
 
I've made it a point never to buy HD revisions. Something about them screams "scam" to me. As for the Wii U's performance in Japan, things will improve as more Nintendo software is released obviously. Even Pikmin boosted sales somewhat and that's not considered a top Nintendo franchise. The doom and gloom in this thread just seems like history repeating itself. People initially wrote off the Wii and 3DS as well. Patience is a virtue.
 
I personally think there is enough evidence of good hardware performance from Nintendo's consoles in the holidays generally for them not to lose retailer confidence completely. Especially since the Wii U performed pretty well at the same period last year. I can see Nintendo having convinced retailers to get stock through announcing aggressive bundling plans too.

Like I said though, I'm not completely against the idea of a price cut in the next few weeks, but I'm not sure about its long lasting positive effects. I suspect, through the arguments I've exposed before, that it may be a better idea to wait until 3D World at the earliest for it to happen, or later.
Based on the sell-through, some retailers have been sitting on launch shipments for 8 months now. Even given Nintendo's traditionally strong holidays, that doesn't instil product confidence. They should really be looking at a price cut this quarter (July-Sept) in Western markets, August would be a good time probably.

They have Pikmin 3 and NSLU coming out; Disney's Infinity should play well with the demographics Nintendo is strong in as well.
Why do people think 3D World will do any better than NSMBU? Why will it be the exception to the 2D Mario > 3D Mario rule?

Do you think NSMBU underperformed only because it was released too close to NSMB2 and since 3D Land was 2 years ago 3D World will have more people interested in it? Or is there any other reason?
That seems to be one of the oft-cited reasons.
 

ZSaberLink

Media Create Maven
Nice to see that after a lot of pages that this thread actually became quite civil actually. People are giving interesting ideas rather than repeated the same points over and over again.

Wow wiiu really has become the next vita with people upset that people aren't praising one of the biggest flops the industry has seen. Get over it, nintendo has one of the biggest fuck ups the industry has seen and they deserve every criticism that comes their way.

If i were nintendo this is what i would do for wii u

1. Get rid of the basic model. SKU swap in japan and price drop to 270 for the deluxe in the US. Throw in game and wario along with nintendo land
2. Offer a subscription plan of 50 dollars a year to play all VC games and a discount program
3. Get over themselves and make a real account system
4. Do a NSMBU and DKC bundle for 300 during BF to compete with the new consoles
5. Get together a development studio to begin porting all their big gamecube games for hd collections. This can easily fill gaps for the gen
6. Get a cross platform system set up and take advantage of your damn back catalogue to create some ecosystem

The third party situation is done for this gen but they can at least keep their console image alive.

Agree with #1.

I don't really get the point of #2 unless it's on the Wii/3DS...

#3 is eventually necessary, but won't even be noticed by the vast majority of people. Thus it's the lowest priority as this likely requires a general code rehaul on both 3DS and WiiU.

Maybe for #4. I agree some bundle would be good, not necessarily that exact one.

#5 can be handed to Grezzo, although I don't think it'll really do that much. Sure it might please the current fans, but the problem is not the current Wii U userbase. If people aren't willing to buy new games, why would you expect ports to even sell 100k.

#6 is a good (and hopefully obvious to Nintendo) goal.

The thing I think Nintendo needs to target for the longterm is AA (yes 2 A s) 3rd party development. One reason why most Japanese developers stick to portables (apart from their relative popularity to consoles) is simply because of cost. That's the reason Nintendo was able to get Monster Hunter Tri on Wii.

Now, take that concept and try the two following approaches. Approach somewhat proven, but smaller development studios (like they seem to be doing with Platinum, try it with Level 5 let's say), and cultivate them. Make great partners without explicitly owning them. Do this with both Japanese and Western developers, and make the barrier to entry lower than the competition, but higher than phones, etc. (kind of like what they're doing with indies). Also, work with the Japanese studios you have good relations with, and try to get key titles from them.

A great example is how Nintendo in the Wii/DS age secured Dragon Quest and Monster Hunter for their platforms, which was a huge win in Japan. Obviously try your best to keep those titles, and try to do the same with other titles going to PS3. For example, it seems like the Tales producer is staying on PS3 for a while. While I don't entirely trust them at times, it seems to me that until their fanbase moves to PS4, I doubt Tales' games will come to PS4. As such, maybe they can be simultaneous releases on PS3/WiiU. Work with Level-5 to get some of their interesting games on WiiU. I can't really think of developers in the West to talk to apart from the big 4 (Ubi, Activision, EA, and Take 2), but maybe even secure a Disney or Warner Bros. exclusive or something. None of this is easy, but maybe enough cash to push it one way or the other. That's my 2 cents.

Edit: Why isn't there a Taiko game for Wii U for Japan when the Wii one is still charting? I actually could think of some interesting things you could do with the GamePad along with some Wiimotes.
 
Why do people think 3D World will do any better than NSMBU? Why will it be the exception to the 2D Mario > 3D Mario rule?

Do you think NSMBU underperformed only because it was released too close to NSMB2 and since 3D Land was 2 years ago 3D World will have more people interested in it? Or is there any other reason?
People blame it on the Mario Fatigue since there were so many Mario games launched close to each other. I don't think 3D World will do wonders but it will at least sell better than NSMBU.
 
I'll be all over Xenoblade Chronicles HD.
As much as i want Xenoblade HD, i don't think it will do anything significant on Wii U. Also the Wii U has Wii in BC mode and i think it upscales the game to 720p(?). What makes sense here is GC HD remakes so lets talk about some like

* RE 0 and Remake HD (Capcom can be convinced to port them)
* Baten Kaitos 1 & 2 HD (They already have Monolith so won't be hard)
* Metroid Prime Trilogy HD
* Super Mario Sunshine and Lugi's Mansion HD
 

AniHawk

Member
Regarding Wii U HD remakes. Isn't the Wii U backward compatible with Wii and Gamecube? If that is the case, i don't really see the appeal in HD remakes. They made sense for PS3 due to lack of Backward compatibility with PS2 but it isn't the case for Wii U.

as thunder monkey said, the gamecube isn't included in the wii u's bc.

i don't have a wii u, but the way i understand it is that you need to enter wii mode in order to play a wii game, which is different from the wii's way of just booting a gamecube game.

collections do a few things:

1. fill gaps in your lineup
2. create a sense of value in said lineup (2 games for the price of less than 1 game!)
3. introduce newcomers to older games, and spur interest in upcoming titles

oh, and nintendo could also do a donkey kong collection hd too, with the wii version of jungle beat + dkcr.

i get that nintendo isn't a huge company, and i know hd ports aren't as simple as flipping a switch, but the amount of resources something like that would require would be low compared to a brand new game. also, these things would fund your brand new games.

As much as i want Xenoblade HD, i don't think it will do anything significant on Wii U. Also the Wii U has Wii in BC mode and i think it upscales the game to 720p(?). What makes sense here is GC HD remakes so lets talk about some like

it's only been a year and xenoblade is hard to find. nintendo has a brand new console, and they should be doing their best to promote new games. attach a demo for x to xenoblade chronicles, and people who were unable to get the wii version would be all over the hd port.
 

Scum

Junior Member
As much as i want Xenoblade HD, i don't think it will do anything significant on Wii U. Also the Wii U has Wii in BC mode and i think it upscales the game to 720p(?). What makes sense here is GC HD remakes so lets talk about some like

* RE 0 and Remake HD (Capcom can be convinced to port them)
* Baten Kaitos 1 & 2 HD (They already have Monolith so won't be hard)
* Metroid Prime Trilogy HD
* Super Mario Sunshine and Lugi's Mansion HD

Well, I think otherwise. I think there's a fair amount of IPs on the N64 and Gamecube that could do well enough to warrant fully fledge IPs for Nintendo to carry onto the WiiU. Some of those IPs represent genres that has been missing for a very long time on Nintendo's consoles. HD remakes of games like World Driver Championship, Body Harvest and WinBack will do very well to plug holes.

Plus Xenoblade Chronicles is quite hard to find. An HD remake on the eShop and retail for the right price will bloody well.
 

ZSaberLink

Media Create Maven
it's only been a year and xenoblade is hard to find. nintendo has a brand new console, and they should be doing their best to promote new games. attach a demo for x to xenoblade chronicles, and people who were unable to get the wii version would be all over the hd port.

Hm, I hadn't thought of putting the X demo in Xenoblade HD idea. I was wondering how to not eclipse X or have them release too close to each other (as Xenoblade takes a LONG time to beat). However, Xenoblade actually still looks amazing on the Wii even on a big screen with some component cables, so I'm honestly not sure how much work would really be necessary to make it "HD". Also, I haven't tried the Wii BC since the update, but I think there's now a way to make that experience more pleasant (like hold B to boot into the Wii Menu/Wii game?).

One other thing that I think the advertising could do is advertise the Wii U's unique features better. Virtual Console, Miiverse, off-TV play, etc.
 

RurouniZel

Asks questions so Ezalc doesn't have to
as thunder monkey said, the gamecube isn't included in the wii u's bc.

i don't have a wii u, but the way i understand it is that you need to enter wii mode in order to play a wii game, which is different from the wii's way of just booting a gamecube game.

collections do a few things:

1. fill gaps in your lineup
2. create a sense of value in said lineup (2 games for the price of less than 1 game!)
3. introduce newcomers to older games, and spur interest in upcoming titles

oh, and nintendo could also do a donkey kong collection hd too, with the wii version of jungle beat + dkcr.

i get that nintendo isn't a huge company, and i know hd ports aren't as simple as flipping a switch, but the amount of resources something like that would require would be low compared to a brand new game. also, these things would fund your brand new games.

it's only been a year and xenoblade is hard to find. nintendo has a brand new console, and they should be doing their best to promote new games. attach a demo for x to xenoblade chronicles, and people who were unable to get the wii version would be all over the hd port.

The bolded is the biggest reason why Nintendo should really be seeking companies to do HD ports of GC/Wii titles hard. They can't rely on 3rd party support for the Wii U so they NEED to fill those gaps. They can't have a drought for half a year every year on the system if they have any hopes of turning the Wii U into just a disaster rather than a complete and utterly horribly disaster.
 

hatchx

Banned
The bolded is the biggest reason why Nintendo should really be seeking companies to do HD ports of GC/Wii titles hard. They can't rely on 3rd party support for the Wii U so they NEED to fill those gaps. They can't have a drought for half a year every year on the system if they have any hopes of turning the Wii U into just a disaster rather than a complete and utterly horribly disaster.


They really should just fork out and buy a developer for 300-600 million. Imagine Nintendo had bought Eidos. If Square-Enix could do it, so could Nintendo. If they want to fill their own software gaps they need more 1st-parties, and they sort of need that growth fast to help the WiiU.
 

RurouniZel

Asks questions so Ezalc doesn't have to
They really should just fork out and buy a developer for 300-600 million. Imagine Nintendo had bought Eidos. If Square-Enix could do it, so could Nintendo. If they want to fill their own software gaps they need more 1st-parties, and they sort of need that growth fast to help the WiiU.

In the long term, I agree with this. But in the short term they desperately need a solution that can:

1) Increase the amount of software on the platform
2) Fast
3) And without breaking the bank to do so

So while again, I agree that in the long term Nintendo should see to acquire some new studios to be 1st party, HD collections are probably a better solution for the immediate short term.
 

Scum

Junior Member
In the long term, I agree with this. But in the short term they desperately need a solution that can:

1) Increase the amount of software on the platform
2) Fast
3) And without breaking the bank to do so

So while again, I agree that in the long term Nintendo should see to acquire some new studios to be 1st party, HD collections are probably a better solution for the immediate short term.

There must be a crapton of devs from the demise of mid tier development collapse that are prancing around with nothing better to do. Time to go headhunting.
 

RurouniZel

Asks questions so Ezalc doesn't have to
There must be a crapton of devs from the demise of mid tier development collapse that are prancing around with nothing better to do. Time to go headhunting.

The other alternative would be to create a small studio of newer programmers who's sole purpose is to create HD ports of stuff. Let them get used to the hardware and Nintendo culture before graduating into the bigger teams.
 

Scum

Junior Member
The other alternative would be to create a small studio of newer programmers who's sole purpose is to create HD ports of stuff. Let them get used to the hardware and Nintendo culture before graduating into the bigger teams.

Yep. I've been saying this for a long time now. NoE and NoA should have dev teams by now. They can be put in charge of all the HD Remakes. Miyamoto can be responsible for the "Nintendo culture" part. He's just wasting his time on the Board.
 
There must be a crapton of devs from the demise of mid tier development collapse that are prancing around with nothing better to do. Time to go headhunting.

I think the same, but aren't Nintendo fanatical about company loyalty? I understand that but maybe let NoA and NoE run the wage-bitch mills.

EDIT: or kind of what you said. I understand why NCL is so careful and select about who it hires and works with, but I don't get why the western branches can't get their own studios for the thankless work every platform holder needs people to do.
 

Tuck

Member
Yep. I've been saying this for a long time now. NoE and NoA should have dev teams by now. They can be put in charge of all the HD Remakes. Miyamoto can be responsible for the "Nintendo culture" part. He's just wasting his time on the Board.

They need more than HD remakes. I agree though, Nintendo needs to drastically increase the number of development teams it has under its belt. It cannot rely on third party developers, and it cannot allow huge stretches of time with no game releases.
 

HardRojo

Member
I've made it a point never to buy HD revisions. Something about them screams "scam" to me. As for the Wii U's performance in Japan, things will improve as more Nintendo software is released obviously. Even Pikmin boosted sales somewhat and that's not considered a top Nintendo franchise. The doom and gloom in this thread just seems like history repeating itself. People initially wrote off the Wii and 3DS as well. Patience is a virtue.

Why? There are people like me who didn't get to enjoy games like Sly Cooper, Ratchet and Clank, Jak and Daxter, DMC1 and 3, MGS2, ZoE, Okami, both God of Wars and some other PS2 titles so I'm thankful they came back in some way so I could play them.
 
wii_u_prints_money____by_olio96-d5h6e73.gif


nope not happening, not until smash bros

Haha, did someone make that preemptively before the launch? I remember before one E3 someone made a brilliant Bullet Bill nuclear bomba gif but it couldn't be used in the thread because everyone hated the show that year. It got some use the following year though.
 
Why? There are people like me who didn't get to enjoy games like Sly Cooper, Ratchet and Clank, Jak and Daxter, DMC1 and 3, MGS2, ZoE, Okami, both God of Wars and some other PS2 titles so I'm thankful they came back in some way so I could play them.
I'd think a GCN VC would be better personally. It'd save on resources. I'm not sure how much HD GCN remakes would really sell there are very few that I think would do much of anything. They could do Sunshine, TTYD and Luigi's Mansion, I suppose those might sell enough to earn money. FSA would be pretty interesting given the gamepad. They could do MP trilogy and Pikmins again but they weren't huge sellers with the wiimakes, I doubt they'd do much. They could try and pull in more enthusiasts in with Eternal Darkness. Melee, Mario Kart, Mario Sports and parties would be pointless.
 

Biker19

Banned
This is very worrisome, indeed. In Japan, WiiU's line-up looks like a complete wasteland and makes NA looks like a dreamworld.

It's funny, because there are Nintendo fanboys constantly saying they don't need western support and should stick with japanese developers only. But, where is the japanese support? I don't think it's only the west who's shafting them, but Japan as well.

Nintendo relations with third-parties certainly is very fucked up to come up to this situation.

I get the feeling that even Japanese 3rd party publishers & developers will most likely focus their efforts on 3DS, Vita, PS3, & PS4 for the long haul much more so than Wii U.

The only thing that could "save" the Wii U at this point is what "saved" the PS3: a massive price drop and a willingness on Nintendo's part to bleed enormous amounts of money.

If Nintendo is willing to drop the price of the Wii U to 150 bucks and lose 5+ Billion dollars on the Wii U as Sony did on the PS3, I can see that having a dramatic effect on sales.

Barring that extremely unlikely scenario, I don't see any method for the Wii U to be any more than a marginal, niche product.

Also agree. If Nintendo keeps the same price tag of the system at $350 once PS4 is out, then they're going to get very massacred in sales.

Because why buy a Wii U at $350 when you can easily buy a PS4 for just $50 more?
 

AOC83

Banned
I'd think a GCN VC would be better personally. It'd save on resources. I'm not sure how much HD GCN remakes would really sell there are very few that I think would do much of anything. They could do Sunshine, TTYD and Luigi's Mansion, I suppose those might sell enough to earn money. FSA would be pretty interesting given the gamepad. They could do MP trilogy and Pikmins again but they weren't huge sellers with the wiimakes, I doubt they'd do much. They could try and pull in more enthusiasts in with Eternal Darkness. Melee, Mario Kart, Mario Sports and parties would be pointless.

HD remakes don´t really need to sell much because they cost almost nothing compared to newly developed game and you can easily outsource them to smaller B or C tier developers. But they are a good way to broaden the lineup and fill some software holes.

Of course they would have to be reasonably priced like 2 or 3 games for 30-40 max and not full price for one game like Wind Waker HD.
 

guek

Banned
Also i personally think that Games like Final Fantasy XV and Metal Gear Solid 5 can give a big boost to PS4 sales in Japan. Neither of these are coming on Wii U and Xbone is hardly noticeable in Japan. IIRC, MGS 4 and FF XIII gave the PS3 life support in Japan.

PS4 is probably going to be a slow burn in Japan, much like PS3 was initially. Unless Sony reveals a bunch of surprise software for the first 6 months of the PS4, it's a bit preemptive to think it'd do anything beyond lukewarm sales for most of the first half of 2014. The console market has softened, the handheld market is still strong, but there's more competition as far as gaming gadget go in 2013 than there was in 2006. Factor in the fact that the bigger Japanese devs haven't done so hot this gen and have shifted a significant portion of their resources towards cheaper mobile development and it becomes apparent that things aren't particularly rosey for Sony in their home territory.

Not that any of that'll prevent them from clobbering Nintendo, but that's not even really worth talking about at the moment. Games like FFXV and KH:III aren't going to be ready any time soon, and cross gen titles like MGS:V appearing on PS3 will probably be the norm for some time. While I do think PS4 versions of cross gen titles will have some amount of appeal in the west, I have a hard time imagining the Japanese market really caring enough en mass if those games are also on PS3. They were ecstatic with the DS and continue to happily eat up PS2-level visuals on the 3DS even when there were stronger visual alternatives for both those examples. I don't think the Wii's biggest problem in that territory was graphics, if it had had the games, it would have beaten PS3 even more. The only thing that'll really drive them towards a new platform are compelling exclusive games, not just prettier version of stuff they can still get on PS3. Japanese devs had it pretty rough transitioning last gen, it's unlikely that they'll rush to make exclusive PS4/XB1 content when that large last gen installed base is still there and still willing to buy software.
 
I think PS4 in the first 6-9 moths will be carried along by ps3 multiplats in the same way vita has with psp/ps3 releases but there are likely to be more of them so it wont sink to vita/wiiu level but won't exactly do well either..
 
Is there an explanation for why the game is full priced? Genuinely curious, feel like i'm missing something.

Nintendo has always thought there catalogue was worth more than it really is for a long time now. Just look at the wii vc It's The Legend of Zelda in Hd of course it's full price. Star Fox 64 should have been 20 bucks on 3ds. I kind of understand OoT at 40, but Wind waker is not even close oot in appeal. WW HD should be 40 bucks maximum preferably 30
 

AOC83

Banned
Nintendo has always thought there catalogue was worth more than it really is for a long time now. It's The Legend of Zelda in Hd of course it's full price. Star Fox 64 should have been 20 bucks on 3ds. I kind of understand OoT at 40, but Wind waker is not even close oot in appeal. WW HD should be 40 bucks maximum preferably 30

They should have made a Zelda HD box with Wind Waker, Twilight Princess and Skyward Sword for let´s be generous and say 50€.
That would be value and i guarantee you guys it would have sold really really well.
 
They should have made a Zelda HD box with Wind Waker, Twilight Princess and Skyward Sword for let´s be generous and say 50€.
That would be value and i guarantee you guys it would have sold really really well.

I think even HD redos for all of them at 30 would be decent. The best deal nintendo ever did was metroid prime trilogy and retro probably had to beg to keep that together in the west

Edit: If you're going to talk about history nintendo has more failures than systems they turned around so history would tell us wiiu is not having a huge turnaround

Also I think Donkey Kong and 3D World have a huge overlapping audience with each other and NSMBU so while i dont think it will happen those two games could barely push wiiu for more than a week or two but the holidays will be there at that point. How long do people expect a 3d mario and dk momentum to last anyway? Months? Because even if they do sell well they could be back to shit before mario kart comes out. I guess my overall point is that i think its stupid to have those two platformers launch so close and be the big hope
 

Biker19

Banned
I've made it a point never to buy HD revisions. Something about them screams "scam" to me. As for the Wii U's performance in Japan, things will improve as more Nintendo software is released obviously. Even Pikmin boosted sales somewhat and that's not considered a top Nintendo franchise. The doom and gloom in this thread just seems like history repeating itself. People initially wrote off the Wii and 3DS as well. Patience is a virtue.

Difference is, is that the 3DS rarely had competition (lol Vita), while the Wii already took off back then in sales until back in 2010 to present.

Not only does the Wii U have to face off against 2 current consoles (360 & PS3), but they also have to face 2 next gen consoles as well (Xbox One & PS4).

Not a good situation for Nintendo to be in.
 

Chill Dude

Neo Member
Right? And Pikmin 3 is on top of the charts!

Couldn't agree more hopefully this is just the start especially based on the games already announced.

Also as a new user I just want to say a massive thank you to everyone who contributes these sales figures especially those from Japan they are much appreciated!
 
Yep. I've been saying this for a long time now. NoE and NoA should have dev teams by now. They can be put in charge of all the HD Remakes. Miyamoto can be responsible for the "Nintendo culture" part. He's just wasting his time on the Board.

There's a very solid reason why Nintendo avoids making HD remakes. Their games aren't story based so releasing HD version would be remainding people how little have changed.

So the only ones that qualify are Zelda , Operation rainfall trio, Wii Fire Emblem and maybe some more smaller series.
 

Striek

Member
I've made it a point never to buy HD revisions. Something about them screams "scam" to me. As for the Wii U's performance in Japan, things will improve as more Nintendo software is released obviously. Even Pikmin boosted sales somewhat and that's not considered a top Nintendo franchise. The doom and gloom in this thread just seems like history repeating itself. People initially wrote off the Wii and 3DS as well. Patience is a virtue.
People wrote off the Wii in Japan?

Was sold out/scarce for months and trouncing the competition. Its sales never got better than they did that first year unlike many systems.

If you think the Wii U will turn around thats well and good, but no need to make up examples.
 

test_account

XP-39C²
Haha, did someone make that preemptively before the launch? I remember before one E3 someone made a brilliant Bullet Bill nuclear bomba gif but it couldn't be used in the thread because everyone hated the show that year. It got some use the following year though.
That Bullet Bill gif can be used for different senarios, it can either be used when there is a megaton announcement or when something is bombing sales wise =)
 
I don't understand where the problem is. Wii U was the second best selling console last week.
Nice.
There's a very solid reason why Nintendo avoids making HD remakes. Their games aren't story based so releasing HD version would be remainding people how little have changed.

So the only ones that qualify are Zelda , Operation rainfall trio, Wii Fire Emblem and maybe some more smaller series.
That's nonsense.
 

Foshy

Member
Couldn't agree more hopefully this is just the start especially based on the games already announced.
Juniors not getting sarcasm are always funny :)

Hmm, I wonder how Dangan Ronpa 1 & 2 on Vita will perform ... The anime is obviously helping.

While that obviously doesn't mean much, it's consistently in the Top 10 of theAmazon hourly charts . Currently it's on #7, but I recall it being steadily on #1 last week, whatever that means.
 

AOC83

Banned
I think even HD redos for all of them at 30 would be decent. The best deal nintendo ever did was metroid prime trilogy and retro probably had to beg to keep that together in the west

Yeah and that´s really a company problem, they have become annoyingly greedy. I hope the WiiU fiasco is a wake up call that this is not how you treat your consumers.
 

Aostia

El Capitan Todd
At this point, we can accept it: Wii U is a dead system. Keeping on track with the GC (in Japan and WW) will be it's most successfull goal possible
Hopefully they'll be able to make money from their software, so they'll be pushed to support the console for some years on
 
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