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[The Janitor]

You can play a lot of console games with emulation in the same way that consoles can play multiplatform games: with compromises.

Yeah sometimes emulated games can be screwed up, but sometimes they're even better thanks to better framerate and IQ.

For instance I tried playing banjo Tooie on my N64 recently but the framerate was so bad I just emulated it instead, which made it run smoothly

 

[SniperHunter]

Over time? Are you so sure?

We don't yet know what kind of requirements the new generation of PC ports will carry. It seems to me that it would be best to wait until the next round of PC hardware if you're building from scratch.

In 2005, if you built a high-end PC, you weren't going to be set for long. However, if you waited a year or two for the 8 series nVidia cards you were going to be set for years to come.

Will that happen this time? Maybe not, but it's best to wait if you're building new.

Last time I got screwed by dual cores. Oh they will last long the said! NOT!

 

[iamshadowlark]

This early in the cycle I would think consoles offer a better price to performance ratio. If you're looking to spend 400-500 on hardware, it would make no sense to spring for a new PC at this point in time. IMO.

 

[kharma45]

Over time? Are you so sure?

We don't yet know what kind of requirements the new generation of PC ports will carry. It seems to me that it would be best to wait until the next round of PC hardware if you're building from scratch.

In 2005, if you built a high-end PC, you weren't going to be set for long. However, if you waited a year or two for the 8 series nVidia cards you were going to be set for years to come.

Will that happen this time? Maybe not, but it's best to wait if you're building new.

The hardware available now is already more powerful than the consoles, there is no need to wait. Intel aren't going to be bringing much on the consumer level for CPUs and as for AMD we can only hope they have something good coming in Kaveri and Steamroller (if they haven't dropped the FX platform). GPU wise new hardware is October and sometime next Spring from AMD and Nvidia respectively, and it'll be another good step forward.

On the CPU side the rate of progress has slowed hugely, I've one PC with a 2009 i5 750 and it still beasts away now and has no issues with modern games, and I expect it to be the same for a good while yet. GPUs are the only area where real progress is still being made.

 

[Mr. Poolman]

Long term investment vs short term investment.

In the long run you will save A LOT of money with a decent PC, be it on cheaper games and free to play online.

Also you can't ignore the 20+ years of backwards compatibility with the PC and the hundreds and hundreds of games you don't even know about

 

[Malio]

Yep, cheap games from Steam, GMG and ebay (plus no 'pay to play online' BS) will help cover the initial cost of the PC especially if this gen lasts long.

PC + WiiU, all set.

 

[IcyEyes]

... and if we talk about performance there is no chance to built a good PC with 400$.
BF4 will suffer on consoles and shine on pretty good PC (800$+), but Devs need a bit of time to tap the console power, everybody knows that.

I play games on every platform, but I'm not so stupid to think I can build a good PC with 400$ and hope to play BF4 1080@60 max setting.

Of course, if performance it's not an issue your choice is all about your personal preferences (pad vs m+k, etc).

There are some games you will never enjoy on consoles like RTS (I can't wait for Satellite Reign, Elite Dangerous, Warmachine, etc!!!!) and vice-versa (Infamous, Killzone, Halo, etc).

 

[TheD]

Well I upgraded my few year old PC if a new graphics card for less than the price of a PS4 or XB1 (in Aus) and selling the old graphics card will mean it was only $250 out of my pocket.

So PC was much better for me.

 

[Ghost]

The hardware available now is already more powerful than the consoles, there is no need to wait. Intel aren't going to be bringing much on the consumer level for CPUs and as for AMD we can only hope they have something good coming in Kaveri and Steamroller (if they haven't dropped the FX platform). GPU wise new hardware is October and sometime next Spring from AMD and Nvidia respectively, and it'll be another good step forward.

On the CPU side the rate of progress has slowed hugely, I've one PC with a 2009 i5 750 and it still beasts away now and has no issues with modern games, and I expect it to be the same for a good while yet. GPUs are the only area where real progress is still being made.

Given that PC ports invariably have higher requirements than console versions, Wont you at least need that next generation of GPU to get a console beating performance?

 

[erick]

The PS4 runs unified ram so if you want to compare it to a pc those 3gb ram that killzone uses is also used for things that the non v-ram pc handles and most have 8gb+. So a 2gb vram card will probably have much more ram dedicated to the things we traditionally see as vram.

Nope, the 100+ PDF Guerilla Games released specifically says they used 3072MB for video RAM only, and an additional 1536MB of system memory: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-inside-killzone-shadow-fall

lol wut

I take it you have little experience with various graphics cards.

 

[MadOdorMachine]

I don't understand the argument of cost when it comes to PC gaming.

1. If you have a PC with a decent CPU from the last 5 years, all you'll probably need is a GPU in which case a GTX 760 will handsomely outperform both PS4 & XB1 as well as be cheaper.

2. If building from the ground up, how many people build a dedicated gaming PC? I'm guessing not many. That PC is going to probably be used for something other than gaming more often than not. The additions you would make to build a gaming PC isn't going to add a whole lot more to the total system cost, so it's worth it.

3. PC games are cheaper, has better backwords compatibility and most games don't charge for online.

Now more than ever, most games will be coming to PC. There will always be exclusives on consoles, but if you need a new PC or already have a decent one and just want to do some upgrades, I think it's a better investment than going with a console at launch. You'll have access to more games from the start and you can wait and see which console has the most exclusives you want. By the time they have their first price drop would probably be a good time to plan on getting a console.

 

[Moral Panic]

You missed quite a few late releases. Gears of War, Assasins Creed 2, Fez, Braid etc all came to PC.

 

[kharma45]

Given that PC ports invariably have higher requirements than console versions, Wont you at least need that next generation of GPU to get a console beating performance?

No, what is on sale at present at the upper mid range will easily hold it's own (cards like the 760 and 7950) and you can of course overclock them and extract yet more performance.

 

[coldfoot]

If you're past the point that you're actually, seriously considering PC for your gaming needs and not put off by:

1. Price
2. The lack of achievements at a system level,
3. The ergonomic failures of attempting to use Mouse+KB on a couch,
4. Console exclusives
5. Driver updates and occasional system troubleshooting,

DEFINITELY go with PC.

I don't even consider the PC as an alternative to consoles, mainly because of 2,3, and 4. But if those didn't matter to me, I'd be a PC gamer.

 

[louiedog]

Yes, but over time an $800 PC will likely work out better than a $400 PS4. My PC is also a media center and general use computer. My Steam/GOG/etc library was really cheap thanks to Steam sales, Humble Bundles, etc. and plays games from the last 20+ years.

Over time? Are you so sure?

We don't yet know what kind of requirements the new generation of PC ports will carry. It seems to me that it would be best to wait until the next round of PC hardware if you're building from scratch.

In 2005, if you built a high-end PC, you weren't going to be set for long. However, if you waited a year or two for the 8 series nVidia cards you were going to be set for years to come.

Will that happen this time? Maybe not, but it's best to wait if you're building new.

I'm not 100% sure about anything. I'm not sure there will be more than 5 games on the PS4 worth playing or that it won't have massive hardware failures after 8 months.

 

[Tain]

Yeah sometimes emulated games can be screwed up, but sometimes they're even better thanks to better framerate and IQ.

Generally you don't get framerate boosts outside of a few cases, but you can definitely get better IQ when emulating the more modern platforms. These platforms are often the ones that have the worst support/compatibility (N64/Wii/Dreamcast/PS2) but when it works it can be great.

The bigger issue, though, is that pretty much every single console/arcade/handheld game, when emulated on PC, will have audio lag and either screen tearing or display lag that you won't get when playing on the original hardware. I know that a lot of people won't care about these inherent problems, but having the best experience (with maybe slightly less convenience, depending) is a big part of PC gaming's appeal to me and emulation usually doesn't give you that.

 

[Gustav]

I have a living room gaming PC and can say that it's pretty nice. The problem is that it's never pick up and play. With Steam Big Picture mode we're getting there, but there's still games that don't support controllers, are not available on Steam, etc. Once the PS4 comes out, I'm sure this will be my main gaming machine, simply because I never have to get out the old keyboard/mouse to install custom drivers, fix ini files or get motherfucking big picture to open reliably!!!!

 

[theclosetfan]

Stay away from PC. You'll end up tinkering with settings, obsessively considering upgrades, begging for console ports, begging for better optimized ports, all while spending hundreds of dollars buying games you don't really want on Steam and considering it a steal.

Buttttt...if you want your hobby to become a religion, by all means, dive in.

 

[dark10x]

I'm not 100% sure about anything. I'm not sure there will be more than 5 games on the PS4 worth playing.

What kind of argument is that? That sounds just as silly as the people arguing against the PC.

 

[Nethaniah]

If you're past the point that you're actually, seriously considering PC for your gaming needs and not put off by:

1. Price
2. The lack of achievements at a system level,
3. The ergonomic failures of attempting to use Mouse+KB on a couch,
4. Console exclusives
5. Driver updates and occasional system troubleshooting,

DEFINITELY go with PC.

I don't even consider the PC as an alternative to consoles, mainly because of 2,3, and 4. But if those didn't matter to me, I'd be a PC gamer.

If this is an issue for someone they really need to take a step back and wonder if gaming is really for them IMO.

 

[TheSeks]

This is going to lead to deep and meaningful discussion. Especially with bits like:

"Will PC ports drop off the cliff once console devs get used to playing with 8gig of RAM?"

Hahaha, seriously.

As for the topic title: Yes, so long as it continues to have free online play it'll be the choice I make forever until Sony or MS 180 on that

Spoiler

they never will

.

 

[tpax]

Made a decision in favor of PC yesterday. Couldn't live with the idea, that even before the launch of next gen consoles, it is already clear, that PC versions of games will be technically ahead of the console versions (eg. Battlefield 4). Also free online multiplayer, Steam, precision of KB/M for Shooters etc.
Will borrow a PS4 or Xbone from a friend for a few days, as far as there are some exclusives I may be interessted in.

If this is an issue for someone they really need to take a step back and wonder if gaming is really for them IMO.

 

[louiedog]

What kind of argument is that? That sounds just as silly as the people arguing against the PC.

The point is no one can be sure of anything in the future, it's all a gamble.

I said a PC at twice the price was LIKELY to be a better investment. You asked me if I was "so sure." If I was so sure, I probably would have skipped over using a word that meant I was not.

 

[flaxknuckles]

Yeah, I'd say so. Until a few weeks ago, I was dead set on getting a ps4 this year. Then I remembered that the only thing coming out for it on launch that looks good is Killzone and while that looks aight, Titanfall looks a ton more fun and is coming to PC.

I didn't like Infamous 1 or 2, and while Second Son looks great graphically, it appears to have the same gameplay from the previous two games.

The only thing on Xbox One that tickles my fancy is Dead Rising 3 and I'm sure that will be ported over at some point. If not, I won't shed a tear.

Naughty Dog's output is inconsistent for me. I loved Jak & Daxter and The Last of Us, but all the Uncharted games are trite.

Honestly, I couldn't give a Lotus flower tattooed on a rhino's brown hole about any of Microsoft, Sony, or Nintendo's exclusives minus the aforementioned Naughty Dog games. The vast majority of titles I'm excited for are on PC or are very likely to be.

Cheaper games, keyboard & mouse (for fps and RTS, controller for everything else), better performance (no more terrible console versions like SR4 & Far Cry 3), no re-buying games when 4k tvs come out, etc.

Then there's mod support which will greatly extend the lives of games like Gta V, Elder Scrolls, Fallout, Saints Row, etc for years to come.

People who say they don't have the money for a gaming pc, but are still paying for Xbox Live Gold or PS Plus and buying new $60 games when they come out don't make any sense to me at all.

 

[StMeph]

The question is: how much do you care about/want to play console exclusives? If the answer is not much, or they don't appeal to you, then PC destroys any competition. Given the relatively middling hardware of this upcoming gen, I would expect more games to be ported to PC than even this gen, and for more/better features to be available sooner as well.

I would also like to point out that many of the games counted as 0 may have been true immediately at launch, but were also ported to PC later. So it's not a total 0.

 

[fuzzyreactor]

Really just depends on what you are looking for. I built a gaming pc and personally I wish I didn't blow that $1000+. I'm a fairly busy guy and console gaming is just more convenient and less time consuming than pc gaming.

gamepad, big screen and comfy couch all day.

Steam is awesome though

 

[silver.tongue]

If you don't care about the exclusive titles from Sony, MS or Nintendo and don't mind spending a little more... yes it is a great option.

Me, I don't have the patience for PC Gaming.

 

[dcx4610]

PS4 + Xbox One + Wii U = Cheaper than a quality computer build.

You get all 3 systems, don't miss out on any exclusives and with the first two, get a near-PC experience without the hassle of drivers, updates and bad ports.

I love PCs and gaming, I've been doing it all my life. Still, I admit it's an expensive hobby and especially with this next generation, just not worth the price for the performance you are going to get.

Yes, you'll have slightly better graphics on PC, Steam deals and the ability to mod but I just don't see those as compelling enough reasons.

 

[ghst]

IWith Steam Big Picture mode we're getting there, but there's still games that don't support controllers

3. The ergonomic failures of attempting to use Mouse+KB on a couch,

there is a huge gaping hole in console libraries due to the limitations of a catch-all control scheme; many games simply cannot be played in any kind of effective way from 8 feet away with two thumbsticks.

it's moronic to consider a platform's inability to facilitate these titles as some kind of advantage.

 

[dark10x]

Is there really a need to take sides here?

I'm excited about the new consoles and will continue to play PC games. I hate seeing people trash one side or another like this.

 

[Future PhaZe]

Curious, as I remember Killzone SF already uses 3GB vRAM. I would bet that 2GB grpahics cards will see a drastic drop in aftermarket value as people discover they can't even reach console levels of IQ with them.

Yes, rendering power is an issue, but isn't running out of vRAM (or RAM for that matter) the absolute number 1 performance killer that will bring any system to it's knees regardless of IQ settings? I mean a GTX 680 2GB will be reduced to single-digit fps as well as a GT 630 2GB entry level card, as soon as the vRAM capacity is exceeded, regardless of the 4,5x difference in rendering power...

yo wat

 

[KKRT00]

PS4 + Xbox One + Wii U = Cheaper than a quality computer build.

You get all 3 systems, don't miss out on any exclusives and with the first two, get a near-PC experience without the hassle of drivers, updates and bad ports.

I love PCs and gaming, I've been doing it all my life. Still, I admit it's an expensive hobby and especially with this next generation, just not worth the price for the performance you are going to get.

Yes, you'll have slightly better graphics on PC, Steam deals and the ability to mod but I just don't see those as compelling enough reasons.

And You pay 120$ for online per year and generally 10-20$ more for games. You also play worse multiplatform versions and still miss out PC exclusives.
Also You dont have any backward compatibility. Oh and there are tons of bad ports on consoles, much more than on PC.

Pros and cons everywhere.

===

I mean a GTX 680 2GB will be reduced to single-digit fps as well as a GT 630 2GB entry level card, as soon as the vRAM capacity is exceeded, regardless of the 4,5x difference in rendering power...

Haha, are You serious?

 

[louiedog]

PS4 + Xbox One + Wii U = Cheaper than a quality computer build.

You get all 3 systems, don't miss out on any exclusives and with the first two, get a near-PC experience without the hassle of drivers, updates and bad ports.

I love PCs and gaming, I've been doing it all my life. Still, I admit it's an expensive hobby and especially with this next generation, just not worth the price for the performance you are going to get.

Yes, you'll have slightly better graphics on PC, Steam deals and the ability to mod but I just don't see those as compelling enough reasons.

Are you saying that you can't build a quality PC for under $1200, that there aren't any PC exclusives, and consoles never have update hassles?

 

[Stallion Free]

Is there really a need to take sides here?

I'm excited about the new consoles and will continue to play PC games. I hate seeing people trash one side or another like this.

Well the OP didn't exactly set the best example. And honestly what are you expecting walking into threads like these. There is like one a day for the past week.

 

[Silky]

Yep. With more devs/publishers warming up to ports, the variety the PC platform is having is staggering.

 

[Dreamgazer]

Is there really a need to take sides here?

I'm excited about the new consoles and will continue to play PC games. I hate seeing people trash one side or another like this.

Multi-platform owners are loved as much on gaf as moderates are loved in politics.

 

[erick]

yo wat

Ever seen what happens to your PC when it runs out of RAM? It becomes unresponsive and can crash.

The same thing happens basically to games when the GPU runs out of vRAM. If the working set exceeds vRAM the GPU has to start shuffling data between vRAM and main RAM, which is much slower. You will experience this as stuttering and if the dataset is big enough and cannot get there on time, the game will crash.

 

[Evolution_1ne]

Yes.

Cheaper games
Biggest game library of any system
Shorter load times
Free online
Resolution and framerate as you like it
Graphics as you like it
Control as you like it
Mods, lots of great glorious mods

This may change, but there really is no contest at all.

I'm also surprised that gamers don't like the challenge of putting together a gaming machine. It's the most rewarding puzzle game ever made.

all with 3x the cost of a console that will be 3x the size of the console that will create 3x amount the heat of the console and draw 3x the amount of electricity from the wall as the console

So considering EVERYTHING the choice is yours OP

 

[Storm Chamber]

The consoles will probably last you another 7 years. Your PC will be outdated in 7 years.

But...but....what?

 

[SniperHunter]

Is there really a need to take sides here?

I'm excited about the new consoles and will continue to play PC games. I hate seeing people trash one side or another like this.

I agree. I been gaming on PC and consoles since 2001

They both rock in their own way!

 

[TheD]

Ever seen what happens to your PC when it runs out of RAM? It becomes unresponsive and can crash.

The same thing happens basically to games when the GPU runs out of vRAM. If the working set exceeds vRAM the GPU has to start shuffling data between vRAM and main RAM, which is much slower. You will experience this as stuttering and if the dataset is big enough and cannot get there on time, the game will crash.

A game running on a card with lower VRAM will just have settings that lower the VRAM usage, like lower res textures or lower res effect buffers.

 

[jono51]

Wasn't around during current Gen launch, Were there threads like this back then too? I see one of these nearly every day but PC gaming wasn't as popular back in those years.

I actually had a search and couldn't find a similar sort of thread, probably because console and pc libraries had less of an overlap last gen (xb/ps2/gc that is) so fewer if anyone would consider it. Theres also the popularity too. However, I did find this thread regarding a Carmack interview that is kinda amusing. Some of those arguments could be ripped right out of that 2005 thread and placed into a thread today, heh.

 

[dcx4610]

Are you saying that you can't build a quality PC for under $1200, that there aren't any PC exclusives, and consoles never have update hassles?

You'd be cutting some corners if you did. I spent $1300 on my latest last year and I didn't even go all out.

It's just way easier for the normal person to pop a disc in or download a game to their console and start start playing on TV with an easy to use interface. Driver issues, games crashing, Windows issues and all of the related hardware involved makes it hard to recommend to someone over a console especially with how similar they will be graphically this generation.

You have to be into computers and technology to really appreciate the extra graphic fidelity you are getting on a PC and I don't think the price justifies it for most.

 

[The Janitor]

The bigger issue, though, is that pretty much every single console/arcade/handheld game, when emulated on PC, will have audio lag and either screen tearing or display lag .

Every single game? Sure about that? I've played Yoshis island, Banjo Tooie and Paper Mario without noticing any audio lag, screen tearing or display lag. Paper Mario had some messed up sprites but that was it

 

[coldfoot]

there is a huge gaping hole in console libraries due to the limitations of a catch-all control scheme

Such as what, RTS? RTS is not a genre that sells many copies, so it's not a "Gaping Hole" by ANY means. Plus, more and more games are being reworked to use a controller like we're seeing with Diablo 3, I'm sure the RTS genre will be cracked eventually as well.

it's moronic to consider a platform's inability to facilitate these titles as some kind of advantage.

Having a standardized input method for ALL GAMES and ALL ASPECTS OF THE OS that works ergonomically while on a couch is a HUGE advantage. It's a big reason why many people (including me) won't even consider a PC.

 

[DocSeuss]

The best game of 2001 was Deus Ex, though...

The data shows that review scores favor console games--which makes sense. Most gaming journalists seem to own and work primarily on Macs, most of them seem to prioritize and play console games, and so on and so forth. There's a pretty significant bias against PC gaming--I'm not talking about a deliberate interest in censuring PC games, I'm saying that the media's tastes tend to be specific towards consoles and away from PC games.

I don't care about, say, Metal Gear Solid or Final Fantasy or The Legend of Zelda or what have you, but most gaming journalists grew up with those games, placing a great deal of value on them. I don't. I couldn't care less about them, in fact.

So... it's hard to say the console market can bring the PC market to its knees in quality when the best they've got to offer are games I think are subjectively (and in some ways, objectively) worthless.

 

[Adry9]

Yes.

 

[ghst]

Such as what, RTS? RTS is not a genre that sells many copies, so it's not a "Gaping Hole" by ANY means. Plus, more and more games are being reworked to use a controller like we're seeing with Diablo 3, I'm sure the RTS genre will be cracked eventually as well.


Having a standardized input method for ALL GAMES and ALL ASPECTS OF THE OS that works ergonomically while on a couch is a HUGE advantage. It's a big reason why many people (including me) won't even consider a PC.

when you have such a small bucket to fill, i guess consoles will aptly do the job. sorry for your complete lack of perspective.

 

[daviyoung]

all with 3x the cost of a console that will be 3x the size of the console that will create 3x amount the heat of the console and draw 3x the amount of electricity from the wall as the console

So considering EVERYTHING the choice is yours OP

Those numbers are plucked from your arse but I'll humour them...

3x the cost - pays for itself with cheap games
3x the size - have you seen xbox one?
3x the heat - yep, get a good fan
3x the electricity - probably, but is still affordable compared to other household appliances

Not a great rebuttal from yourself, considering all them pros...

 

[Sickbean]

Came to thread expecting usual tired arguments. Was given graphs and data. OP pretty cool guy.