BinaryPork2737
Unconfirmed Member
It's all hearsay though. Give us actual data.
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Nintendo shares plunge 6% by Monday close after trading as low as -18%
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It's all hearsay though. Give us actual data.
I thought this is what got them in trouble.
I think that's AniHawk's point. "Well maybe it will work" doesn't fly when going that route.
NSMB U and SM3DW have some insane attach rates.
Basileus777
Member
Randolph Freelander
Member
Well, the suggestion of simply retreating to handhelds also doesn't fly. That market isn't healthy, either, and it's putting all their eggs in a shrinking basket. But I wasn't actually suggesting they just roll the dice, nor do I believe that's what they would do, if you read beyond just the text in bold.
I'm not even sure how I feel about the possibility of a new boss. I'm worried that a new CEO might not be willing to continue on in the console market. Nintendo could turn into Square or something. I don't want mobile Nintendo games, or a Gamepad, or Nintendo to go third party, or a shitty VC schedule. I just wanted Nintendo to be aggressive and give me games, both old and new.
Sadly, it's not the same "Ninetndo is dying!" cries as before. The difference is that during the N64 and GameCube eras, Nintendo was still extremely profitable even though their market share was relatively small. Right now, in addition to trailing Sony and Microsoft, they're looking at three consecutive years of operating losses and huge competition from a rejuvenated PC market, smartphones and tablets. People are worried that they look a hell of a lot like Blackberry, a former market leader that ignored warning signs, got complacent and are pretty much an afterthought now. Nintendo can turn it around, but they need solid plans in place pretty damn soon to reassure investors, third party publishers, retailers and consumers.
Aquamarine
Member
I sold but will be buying in 2014! I'll be joining you again Aqua
The question is...when are you going to re-enter to maximize your profits? ;-)
fredrancour
Member
well that made me rather sad.
Aquamarine
Member
Mario is different than other mascots. The name is immediately recognizable with all ages...even with people who never play video games.
I bolded that part in particular since it was related to what suggestions of going third party entail. "They'll never know, it could be big, a whole untapped market, etc".
It just seems like an equally precarious route to go down as refining their current strategy.
I didn't mean to single you out, if that's what you were getting at.
It's back up to -6%
yet multiplatform non dudebro titles like rayman & sonic still performed better on wiiU than they did on ps360.
if the market isn't 'really there' on wiiU, then it's outright absent on the ps360.
seriously though. give it some thought. not sure what the exact number is as of now, but individually these consoles have easily sold over 60million units. by sheer numbers alone, rayman & sonic racing should have outsold the wiiU versions.
they didn't & the complete opposite of that theory happened.
people who think they're being 'logical' by wanting nintnedo to develop games on other available systems; why??
so their games can perform even worse?
the only real option is for nintendo to stop half-assing their console tech and become more aggressive. and most importantly be CLEAR about the product you're selling. Even today, many people still have no clue what the wiiU is supposed to be.
ArchedThunder
Banned
Jesus, that's horrible, was this made before or after his death?
Haha, damn.
Guess we'll never know, until it happens. But you are right, there is no guarantee Nintendo software would sell in large numbers on other consoles/platforms. Given how world known and popular their characters are, you would think that they would sell. But that's never a guarantee.
But given the fact that 30 million copies of Mario Kart on the Wii was sold, and they can barely break anywhere close to that for their major titles on the Wii U, that audience is somewhere. And they don't own a Wii U. But it means that many people would buy it, if they had access to it.
I find it hard to believe that Nintendo products wouldn't sell at least decent on other platforms. The issue is, if Nintendo wants to compete in the hardware space, then they can't give up those software on the other consoles. Just the way it is. But I still don't see why they can't release classic title son mobile, or make a mobile division for some mobile games.
They don't have to sink a lot of money into this. They can give it a dabble and see how it works out.
Randolph Freelander
Member
This gets repeated in some form so often, but it defies reason.
If that's what they "know how to do best," why is it that they're so often getting steamrolled? Why did they bother releasing the GameCube and Wii U, just to name a couple? If they "know how to jump back and destroy the competition," they'd be doing it now.
Business is hard, Nintendo is a prime example of sometimes you don't always make the right calls. (They're also an example of sometimes you make very good ones, in all fairness.) Nintendo has fortunately had a very successful handheld line that has gotten them through lackluster console generations, but don't be fooled by their profitability that anyone inside Nintendo has been satisfied with their prior consoles that performed poorly when their own words indicate the contrary.
Otakumegane
Member
Too soon. Damn
Nintendo's home console hardware has been in trouble for some time now. Starting with the N64 and into Gamecube, they were on a downward trajectory of sales being less and less. The WIi stumbled into an emerging market that would end up being the tablet/mobile audience. No company will ever tap into that kind of success again, because that demographic is now the mobile/tablet market.
The way I see it, the Wii U is basically a continuation of the problems they faced with the N64 > Gamecube trajectory. Had Wii not been first, and not beaten mobile and tablets to the demographic first, we would have been talking about the same trajectory. I think expecting Nintendo to get the same levels of success as the Wii is extremely wishful thinking.
Now, we can't deny the success of their handhelds. The 3Ds is selling below the DS. Which I guess is troubling in the grand scheme of things (seeing as everything is down across the board for them). But clearly their console hardware has been struggling for some time now to compete in the console space.
boiled goose
good with gravy
I think putting out any legacy titles on mobile is a huge mistake.
accompanying apps is fine, but it needs to be something that links to a product that you 'play on nintendo', whatever that may be.
VC titles should not be cheap either, unfortunately. Nintendo wants to sell you its latest games because those are the ones that people pay more for (including buying new hardware). VC games prices have to be high enough that any time you spend playing games that cost a few dollars is worth the sacrifice of you playing a new game.
That said, nintendo needs to leverage these titles to increase the value of 'their service', which is why they desperately need a unified cross platform account. That this doesnt exist yet is absurd. They have such a huge and evergrowing library of classics.
Nintendo should aggresively focus on online services and the creation of this unified nintendo account and platform.
Your games tied to this nintendo account would be playable on all compatible nintendo devices whether it is a handheld, a home console, a virtual console tv box, a nintendo tablet, a different simultaneous handheld, the next console, etc.
This strategy is also more 'future proof'. If consoles go away, if handhelds go away, etc, they still have a platform to fall back on, regardless of hardware.
I have no evidence to back this up, but I doubt this is true of most young kids today. Even still, there's a difference between knowing the name and even caring about playing a game staring him. Lots of people know Sonic, and he's nowhere near the most popular endless runner.
MrCookiepants
Member
You're exactly right. Mobile goes against everything Nintendo stands for. They take pride in the fact that Mario Kart Wii is 5 years old, sold 30 million copies and still costs as much as a new release game. You never find their software in bargain bins (except Other M
).Everyone is calling for a Mario endless runner on iOS or whatever, but when you start selling Mario games for 2 bucks it devalues the brand. That's the last thing they'll do.
If Nintendo starts making games on other consoles, you and every other fan will follow them and they'll gain new fans on the new platforms. It's not their software that's causing them to lose money, it's the hardware and everything that goes along with it. If they ditch that, they'll thrive.
dreamghost
Member
They sold the most systems of any platform with the 3DS in the United States and Japan last year.
They have plenty of money and assets on hand.
That said, they need to make some changes in the business, I think they need to find there demographic and exploit that. Start a dialogue with there former, current, & future customers about there plans going forward. Invest outside of Japan in talent & partnerships.
Hours Left
Member
Because many are only looking at what is right in front of them, and not the big picture?
Nintendo isn't gonna implode, but they do need to course correct in a major way.
Nintendo is no where near the verge of bankruptcy. Sony is a lot closer than Nintendo. The reason you see these kind of dire conversations, is because if Nintendo doesn't fix their problems, they could very well be in the same position as Sony 15 years down the line. Allowing yourself to have bad leadership, and allowing you company to commit to bad decisions over and over again, gets you in that position.
And so, Nintendo is starting to hit these crossroads, where they need to start making some decisions.
axisofweevils
Holy crap! Today's real megaton is that more than two people can have the same first name.
You're exactly right. Mobile goes against everything Nintendo stands for. They take pride in the fact that Mario Kart Wii is 5 years old, sold 30 million copies and still costs as much as a new release game. You never find their software in bargain bins (except Other M
Everyone is calling for a Mario endless runner on iOS or whatever, but when you start selling Mario games for 2 bucks it devalues the brand. That's the last thing they'll do.
Plus, Iwata even said that "its not as simple as putting Mario on mobile".
Nintendo will embrace mobile more, but as Reggie said, it will almost certainly be about marketing in order to drive people back to Nintendo devices.
Aquamarine
Member
We're not saying that or even implying that.
The issue that people frequently discuss is how Nintendo will continue to grow profits. Obviously they can avoid bankruptcy with the status quo, but that's not the purpose of a public company with restless short-term investors.
Infernal Monkey
Member
It was the day after he died.
lwilliams3
Member
The popularity of Mario games and merchandise boosted up the recognition of Mario during the last couple of years, so what Aquamarine is saying isn't farfetched.
ArchedThunder
Banned
That's... just gross.
Randolph Freelander
Member
Don't look at me, I don't know the first thing about Rayman or Sonic. After Atari, I played Nintendo when I was younger, not Sega and wherever it is Rayman got its start. I'm certainly aware of Sonic, as it was a pretty big deal in the early 90s, but I've never played a Sonic game for any real length of time. I have no idea if any of the recent Sonic titles have been decent, and really don't care.
What I do know are a handful of Nintendo games (certainly not all of them). I'd think just for people like me, a few of them would sell. I'm not going to say I would buy many of them, it could just be one or two, in all honesty, but I'm not a particularly active gamer these days.
However, I've said it before but I'm always amazed that there's this dual belief that Nintendo games are simultaneously the best games in the world, genre definers, and could not possibly sell anywhere other than a Nintendo platform. To extend that thought, if Nintendo games are better than whatever similar games that exist, why does it matter if those similar games underperform? On the other hand, perhaps they perform better on Wii U because there's nothing else to play on it (comparatively speaking, mind you). You tell me, like I said, I've already admitted I don't know the first thing about those games.
But just to be clear, I wouldn't expect Nintendo to dive headlong into a third party pool without first performing market research, and I don't particularly propose they do it at all. If they have a plan with a reasonably probable chance of turning around their own console business, certainly that is what they should try to do.
i don't know, but that's sort of the problem with saying something will work when you don't have anything to back it up. not saying you did this, just that it has been done before and in this thread.
their teams regularly work on each other's projects, and nintendo releases roughly 20 games a year. they could make 20 games a year for mobile devices (or a service of their own) without needing to downsize. the biggest hit may come to their hardware r&d division, but perhaps they could rework it into some sort of networking/online r&d division.
to me this carries as much weight as going into gamestop and asking the clerk how many xbox ones they sold that day, except there's no actual real world number. just a feeling.
considering 800k copies of just dance 2014 sold on the wii in december 2013 and that nintendo raised software forecasts for the wii this fiscal year, i don't think the audience really is gone. they're just not being served. and nintendo isn't doing them favors by locking franchises they're familiar with to $300 hardware.
as far as sony and microsoft are concerned, they're cultivating a very different market, one centered around shooters and realistic racing games and open world titles. they're not going after families or kids or women. nintendo could theoretically claw their way to the top, but would that be worth the resources when they could instead focus that money on more lucrative projects? things may change. maybe rayman legends will be the game that brings that market to sony and microsoft. it just seems like a dubious claim when even the lesser-selling titles of that sort wind up doing better on nintendo's ailing system. sega racing 2, epic mickey 2, and rayman legends are all recent examples of games that sold better on the wii u than the ps3 or 360.
BinaryPork2737
Unconfirmed Member
What about when you go from 20% to 6% in the same day? XDDD
that would be conflating sales with quality. i think michel ancel makes some of the best games in the world, but rayman legends and rayman origins combined don't even hit a million in the states.
and if those games were performing better on the wii u because nothing else was on it, then batman, splinter cell, and injustice would have all done better too. no, it's the userbase. you can trace it back to the gamecube days when multiplatform sonic was performing better on the gamecube than xbox, and in some cases ps2.
IncandescentPrecept
Banned
I'm curious to know - how much did Rayman Legends sell on each platform?
And it isn't like Sony or Microsoft could do any more damage to the Metroid brand than Other M did.
Is that like the batmobile?
GameAddict411
Member
the wii-u is a terrible try at it, if it was as powerful as the XO many hardcore gamers would have bought it just for the superior multiplatform games alone before any of the next gen consoles launched.
On topic: I am kinda surprised that the stockholders are already pushing nintendo to develop for multiple third party hardware, its going to be tough for nintendo at first but i am pretty they will have a huge success if they bring their beloved franchises to the PS4 or XO(or even mobile).
Randolph Freelander
Member
OK, so then perhaps you'd say that Sega cultivated the audience better on Nintendo platforms after their own third party turn, except now that audience isn't even buying the most recent Nintendo platform. That audience exists somewhere, and I'm unconvinced that the entirety of it exists between Nintendo's own handheld and other mobile devices.
Retreating to handheld just seems to be a total non-starter. That market is troubled. Nintendo needs diversification of risk, they need multiple revenue streams, preferably streams that can grow independently of one another.
You probably wouldn't see those games then either.
IncandescentPrecept
Banned
And that's just the US and retail only?
Dark times, but they're not going to do anything too extreme in response to it. I mean they have to do SOMETHING, but it's definitely not going third party or making full-on mobile games. Come on, people.
Craziest thing I can see them doing is launching another console sooner than expected, or humoring the stockholders with some throwaway mobile spinoffs with IAP shit.
Craziest thing I can see them doing is launching another console sooner than expected, or humoring the stockholders with some throwaway mobile spinoffs with IAP shit.
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