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[jroc74]

Man I miss Shane. I wish Jon Bernthal were cast as Rick and still around.

I do too. Yea he was crazy but I liked him. It's funny that Rick became more like Shane and that's what the group needed.

Are you sure? When I google "Maggie zombie baby" I'm seeing lots of hits that suggests otherwise. Not saying, again, that it was included SPECIFICALLY for this reason but its definitely generated that sort of silly buzz.



No. Denise would have been in the infirmary already if Morgan wouldn't have convinced her to come with him to provide help for the wolf leader. He single handedly relocated the only doctor in Alexandria; the only difference is he was able to get her BACK to the infirmary, where she would have originally been had he not intervened. In addition, had he not let the wolves live when he first encountered them out in the woods, they would not have found evidence (backpack full of photos) that would eventually lead them straight to Alexandria.

Because of Morgan, they found the backpack, attacked Alexandria, and initiated the zombie invasion which got Carl shot. He fucked everything up by sticking with his moronic philosophy.

Who knows how many more lives he could have saved had he been killing the invading wolves who were indiscriminately murdering and beheading innocent people. Instead, he wastes time capturing and helping one of the wolf leaders who eventually saved ONE person of the scores who were murdered by their invasion.

Yea...Morgan has messed up so much with his philosophy. He also needs to look at the consequences of his decisions.

 

[Napoleonthechimp]

They've shown they'll write pretty much anything for extra tweets/social buzz. Not sure why it would surprise anyone. Seems pretty clearly directed toward that type of interpretation, to me.

The difference between Rick and Morgan is that Rick has legitimate reasons for doing what he's doing, whereas Morgan has proven to take chances trusting pretty much anyone, including lunatics with intentions of murdering/beheading just for the hell of it. At least Rick can explain why he's killing people.

What do you think they should have done instead of attacking the saviors?

What if that guy was a Negan scout and was about to run back and deliver valuable information? He made the mistake to not talk and run instead. Why run if you have no reason to?

Rick's arrogance is the issue here. He thinks he's the king shit of the world and can take whatever he wants. The problem is not taking on the Saviors in of itself but rather how he stormed in without giving a fuck.

Now he's gotten everyone in deep shit.

Incidentally, Morgan said his approach isn't right. Just that it is the only way he can live without being brought down by it.

Someone who refuses to talk and decides to immediately book it looks like a threat to me (when you're at war). Why would you do that if not for a specific reason? Guy could be returning to Negan with crucial information about Rick and Alexandria. It wasn't for "no reason" by any stretch.

Could be a threat.

Could be an ally.

Kill them anyway and you make enemies no matter their potential.

 

[Sendero]

Where is the evidence of this? I don't remember her connecting leaving to the saviors being nearby. I don't remember everything she wrote in her letter (if that's where it came from).

Where is the evidence that Carol left after hearing about Denisse? It's in the chapter: She and Daryl are buring her, so hasn't left at that point yet.

The important part, is what comes next - She remembers a small combo both had at the beginning (Daryl is pretty angry because Dwayne betrayed him and stole his bike because he was soft. She said "we are what we are". But Daryl responds: no, we are not. I should have killed him), and then realizes that yes... if Daryl had killed him, Denisse might not have died.

That's when she left the card and leaves. She very clearly says that she is leaving because staying means that she will have to fight to defend them. She can see how having such responsibility is consuming Daryl. Her words were something like "I can't love anyone, because that means having to kill for him/her. And I'm done with that". Someone problably has the scene at hand. Either way, she decides it there and then, due to the realization that things are about to heat up again.

 

[Samurai G0SU]

Where is the evidence that Carol left after hearing about Denisse? It's in the chapter: She and Daryl are buring her, so hasn't left at that point yet.

The important part, is what comes next - She remembers a small combo both had at the beginning (Daryl is pretty angry because Dwayne betrayed him and stole his bike because he was soft. She said "we are what we are". But Daryl responds: no, we are not. I should have killed him), and then realizes that yes... if Daryl had killed him, Denisse might not have died.

That's when she left the card and leaves. She very clearly says that she is leaving because staying means that she will have to fight to defend them. She can see how having such responsibility is consuming Daryl. Her words were something like "I can't love anyone, because that means having to kill for him/her. And I'm done with that". Someone problably has the scene at hand. Either way, she decides it there and then, due to the realization that things are about to heat up again.

Glad you brought that up, because i just now remember how short that scene was. What did she say exactly to Daryl?

 

[Surfinn]

Where is the evidence that Carol left after hearing about Denisse? It's in the chapter: She and Daryl are buring her, so hasn't left at that point yet.

The important part, is what comes next - She remembers a small combo both had at the beginning (Daryl is pretty angry because Dwayne betrayed him and stole his bike because he was soft. She said "we are what we are". But Daryl responds: no, we are not. I should have killed him), and then realizes that yes... if Daryl had killed him, Denisse might not have died.

That's when she left the card and leaves. She very clearly says that she is leaving because staying means that she will have to fight to defend them. She can see how having such responsibility is consuming Daryl. Her words were something like "I can't love anyone, because that means having to kill for him/her. And I'm done with that". Someone problably has the scene at hand. Either way, she decides it there and then, due to the realization that things are about to heat up again.

Right, but that doesn't have anything to do with the saviors proximity, only that Carol disagrees with the groups philosophy (Daryl is a representation of it in that scene). It's more the groups decision to continue their onslaught and that she doesn't want to have anything to do with it. And that would make sense (in the shallow scope of her current "development") if the alternative wasn't doing the exact same damn thing, only alone. But leave it to TWD writing crew to write it up. Like she won't eventually be faced with a decision to save or kill people around her ever again.. come on. She's smarter than this.

Rick's arrogance is the issue here. He thinks he's the king shit of the world and can take whatever he wants. The problem is not taking on the Saviors in of itself but rather how he stormed in without giving a fuck.

Now he's gotten everyone in deep shit.

Incidentally, Morgan said his approach isn't right. Just that it is the only way he can live without being brought down by it.


Could be a threat.

Could be an ally.

Kill them anyway and you make enemies no matter their potential.

I'm failing to see this whole "Rick is an arrogant king who does whatever he wants" perspective. Are you really telling me he isn't acting out of what he thinks is necessity? I keep asking ANYONE here to post an alternative to what Rick has chosen but no one has answered. The war with Negan was always inevitable as soon as they came in contact with Hilltop, simple as that. Unless you pack your shit up and abaondon Alexandria or become slaves for Negan to abuse for the duration of your existence.

In war, you don't let a stranger go who actively runs away when approached, especially when they're around your territory. If the dude was smart he would have at least stopped to talk to Rick instead of looking instantly suspicious and therefore a threat.

The absolute WORST PART OF THE EPISODE was when, after Morgan admits he's not right continues to spew the whole "all life is precious" bullshit that has been wrong from the start. After everything.. even after time to reminisce about his previous decisions.. he still doesn't get it. No, not all life is precious. Sometimes people have to die because they're pieces of shit and destroy the lives of innocents. I honestly was hoping he'd have just popped him right then and there for all he's done to their community.

It's likely Morgan's action here will ironically have an impact down the road. I'll bet the guy was with Negan.

 

[eyeball_kid]

What was the right thing to do though, in regard to the saviors/Negan? Do nothing and inevitably be confronted by their harassment/demands? There was absolutely no way around their paths crossing, especially once Rick/co. stepped foot into Hilltop. You either take action or become their slaves via Negan's brute force.

The better thing would've been to take the knowledge that there's a big, formalized, baddie group out there and use the fact that Negan's didn't really know about Rick's group yet to do recon. Scout the area, get a sense of how big Negan's forces are. Then decide what to do with knowledge in hand. Rick and Maggie were reckless, arrogant, and worst of all poorly informed. They showed themselves to not be a truly organized group, but just a ragtag collection of people who can fight without a leader with a steady hand. Being reckless is the surest way to get yourself killed in that world.

To put in terms of your avatar, Luke got a little training from Yoda and suddenly thought he was a badass Jedi, and decided to take on Vader. Wanted revenge. Luke was not prepared at all; didn't understand how powerful Vader was. Paid dearly for that recklessness. It was only in ROTJ after he had trained more, when he had a plan, and was clear-headed that he was able to take Vader on successfully.

Rick and Daryl and Maggie rushed into situations with recklessness, their thinking clouded by emotion and arrogance. They will pay dearly for that.

I guess it can't possibly be something such as poor health and personal care, suffering violence, and stress. MUST BE ZOMBIE BABY

I think the other poster was suggesting that even as an embryo/fetus, since mother and baby share that blood link, the zombified fetus could "infect" Maggie. The show really confused the rules on this... first we thought bites infected you, then we learned they were all infected, but still for some reason zombie bites "trigger" the infection. So fetus zombie blood going into Maggie's blood could be bad news, if her baby does end up dying.

I dont know why Morgan is ending up in people's shitlists. In this episode he vvery clearly brought Rick back from the brink of madness and showed him actions have consequences. Yeah he let a wolve live. But in the end making him live saved Carl.

Morgan also let that group of Wolves go, who then came upon Rick's RV and almost killed him. Actions do have consequences, but a "good" action doesn't always result in a "good" outcome.

 

[Napoleonthechimp]

Right, but that doesn't have anything to do with the saviors proximity, only that Carol disagrees with the groups philosophy (Daryl is a representation of it in that scene). It's more the groups decision to continue their onslaught and that she doesn't want to have anything to do with it. And that would make sense (in the shallow scope of her current "development") if the alternative wasn't doing the exact same damn thing, only alone. But leave it to TWD writing crew to write it up. Like she won't eventually be faced with a decision to save or kill people around her ever again.. come on. She's smarter than this.



I'm failing to see this whole "Rick is an arrogant king who does whatever he wants" perspective. Are you really telling me he isn't acting out of what he thinks is necessity? I keep asking ANYONE here to post an alternative to what Rick has chosen but no one has answered. The war with Negan was always inevitable as soon as they came in contact with Hilltop, simple as that. Unless you pack your shit up and abaondon Alexandria or become slaves for Negan to abuse for the duration of their existence.

In war, you don't let a stranger go who actively runs away when approached, especially when they're around your territory. If the dude was smart he would have at least stopped to talk to Rick instead of looking instantly suspicious and therefore a threat.

A conflict is not the same as a war.

And if you can't see how there are big problems with Rick's behavior then you clearly haven't been paying attention.

Just the act of almost shooting a guy in the back based on assumptions of what he could be (not what he is) shows me how far he's gone. At this point he's lucky he's only gone up against people morally worse than him and not a group who are far more balanced (by that I mean morally good types who know how to survive).

As for the guy running away: He had no idea who Rick was, but yet he was considerate enough to warn him about the zombies (or something else). For all he knew Rick and Morgan could've been saviors, and after Rick nearly shot him I wouldn't blame him if he couldn't see any difference. In both cases he would've been shot dead.

As for the war comment: if he isn't from the hilltop, Alexandria, or the Saviors then how is he to know that there is a wider conflict going on (and that he shouldn't run?).

This is a good post, thank you for your input. I completely agree that they did NOT go about doing this in the right way. I'm not trying to say they did everything right, but only that their decision to strike first was the right one. I totally agree with your assessment and can see how they've been foolish in not planning and doing recon/scouting. From that point of view, I can understand how they've been arrogant in a sense, but their intentions were in the right place (take out Negan before they know what hit them).

I should rephrase my question:

What could Rick and co. do aside from striking first that would have made sense, assuming they want to stay in Alexandria?

Clearly, they jumped the gun and didn't plan the way they should have, and lots of that fault is on Rick. I just don't think he's this king badass who does whatever he wants just because he can.

He says as much in this past episode when he's in bed with Michonne. But even Glenn knows that what's going in is bigger than they originally thought.

 

[Surfinn]

The better thing would've been to take the knowledge that there's a big, formalized, baddie group out there and use the fact that Negan's didn't really know about Rick's group yet to do recon. Scout the area, get a sense of how big Negan's forces are. Then decide what to do with knowledge in hand. Rick and Maggie were reckless, arrogant, and worst of all poorly informed. They showed themselves to not be a truly organized group, but just a ragtag collection of people who can fight without a leader with a steady hand. Being reckless is the surest way to get yourself killed in that world.

To put in terms of your avatar, Luke got a little training from Yoda and suddenly thought he was a badass Jedi, and decided to take on Vader. Wanted revenge. Luke was not prepared at all; didn't understand how powerful Vader was. Paid dearly for that recklessness. It was only in ROTJ after he had trained more, when he had a plan, and was clear-headed that he was able to take Vader on successfully.

Rick and Daryl and Maggie rushed into situations with recklessness, their thinking clouded by emotion and arrogance. They will pay dearly for that.

This is a good post, thank you for your input. I completely agree that they did NOT go about doing this in the right way. I'm not trying to say they did everything right, but only that their decision to strike first was the right one. I totally agree with your assessment and can see how they've been foolish in not planning and doing recon/scouting. From that point of view, I can understand how they've been arrogant in a sense, but their intentions were in the right place (take out Negan before they know what hit them).

I should rephrase my question:

What could Rick and co. do aside from striking first that would have made sense, assuming they want to stay in Alexandria?

Clearly, they jumped the gun and didn't plan the way they should have, and lots of that fault is on Rick. I just don't think he's this king badass who does whatever he wants just because he can.

A conflict is not the same as a war.

And if you can't see how there are big problems with Rick's behavior then you clearly haven't been paying attention.

Just the act of almost shooting a guy in the back based on assumptions of what he could be (not what he is) shows me how far he's gone. At this point he's lucky he's only gone up against people morally worse than him and not a group who are far more balanced (by that I mean morally good types who know how to survive).

As for the guy running away: He had no idea who Rick was, but yet he was considerate enough to warn him about the zombies (or something else). For all he knew Rick and Morgan could've been saviors, and after Rick nearly shot him I wouldn't blame him if he couldn't see any difference. In both cases he would've been shot dead.

As for the war comment: if he isn't from the hilltop, Alexandria, or the Saviors then how is he to know that there is a wider conflict going on (and that he shouldn't run?).

If you think they're not at war, YOU haven't been paying attention.

Like Rick said, they cannot afford to take chances. If the guy turns out to be innocent, maybe he should have thought twice before running away from someone whose armed after a VERY BRIEF and alarming conversation ("Watch out for these walkers before I take off! See ya later"). It's not like Rick is the only one who would have done this; I can't think of very many people who would approach that guy ARMED and just let him run away. I think it's too dangerous to do that, personally, and of course if it were me, I seriously doubt I would do it (I'd rather take the chance), but I do think it makes more sense to protect your community at all costs.

I agree there are big problems with Rick's behavior, but his head is in the right place (protecting Alexandria). For example, he's simply just been killing people before questioning them which is a huge mistake. I do think he's become too ruthless in the sense that he cannot properly plan and act (i.e. rushing to attack the saviors without a well coordinated battle plan, rushing out to save Carol). But I think a lot of comments around here are super hyperbolic and unfounded. But of course, part of why Rick is this way is to set up for a rude awakening, as we all know.

 

[Sendero]

Right, but that doesn't have anything to do with the saviors proximity, only that Carol disagrees with the groups philosophy (Daryl is a representation of it in that scene). It's more the groups decision to continue their onslaught and that she doesn't want to have anything to do with it. And that would make sense (in the shallow scope of her current "development") if the alternative wasn't doing the exact same damn thing, only alone. But leave it to TWD writing crew to write it up. Like she won't eventually be faced with a decision to save or kill people around her ever again.. come on. She's smarter than this.

Yes, Daryl is the representation of the opposite there. She is leaving this guardian "role", while Daryl can't let it go (incidentally, both approaches screwed the group anyway).

She is hoping that by not getting attached to someone else, again, she would not be forced to kill against her will. And if she does, is because she wants, not because she must.

I'm not sure why are you combating this, since both of us know that likely won't happen anyway and that she eventually will save them one way or another (and almost assuredly die for it). This is not the end of her redemption arc, she is still in the progress of resetting her philosophy about life (which btw, it's not the same than Morgan). Sure, the show didn't portrayed the transition smoothly, at all. But it (sort of) makes sense.

Glad you brought that up, because i just now remember how short that scene was. What did she say exactly to Daryl?

I was looking for the scene in youtube, but incidentally found the one where Rick kicks her out from prison. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_lPACO3vREIt's pretty hilarious how Rick was all.. I'm not doing it for the group. Think on the kids!

Anyway, could not find the 2nd part. But here is the 1st one (beginning of the chapter): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bk3eTN02m8k

And here is the note content (but it's missing her brief combo with Daryl). Pretty sure she just said something like "you were right. The moment you said it, I realized that you were right.":
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNK4wevWTU0

 

[Napoleonthechimp]

This is a good post, thank you for your input. I completely agree that they did NOT go about doing this in the right way. I'm not trying to say they did everything right, but only that their decision to strike first was the right one. I totally agree with your assessment and can see how they've been foolish in not planning and doing recon/scouting. From that point of view, I can understand how they've been arrogant in a sense, but their intentions were in the right place (take out Negan before they know what hit them).

I should rephrase my question:

What could Rick and co. do aside from striking first that would have made sense, assuming they want to stay in Alexandria?

Clearly, they jumped the gun and didn't plan the way they should have, and lots of that fault is on Rick. I just don't think he's this king badass who does whatever he wants just because he can.

In his head he's right ... is the problem.

This is a dictatorship run by a mentally unwell man who is willing to shoot an unnamed man in the back.

But if you can't see the fundamental issues with Rick then I don't know what to say to you.

 

[Surfinn]

In his head he's right ... is the problem.

This is a dictatorship run by a mentally unwell man who is willing to shoot an unnamed man in the back.

But if you can't see the fundamental issues with Rick then I don't know what to say to you.

This is the type of hyperbole I'm talking about. It's just silly. He's not insane and the guy running posed an indirect threat to his community. Obviously he's got issues, but nowhere near the level of the bolded in this post. I've already described (in detail) the issues with Rick in response to a previous post.

Yes, Daryl is the representation of the opposite there. She is leaving this guardian "role", while Daryl can't let it go (incidentally, both approaches screwed the group anyway).

She is hoping that by not getting attached to someone else, again, she would not be forced to kill against her will. And if she does, is because she wants, not because she must.

What? How is anything she's doing "against her will"? She chooses to kill in order to survive. If Morgan had to kill in the same situation (given the opportunity), he'd have just died or been captured instead. Carol is not being forced to do anything against her will; she chose to follow the rest of the group and murder with them. She clearly knew what would happen before she left. She could have chosen to leave THEN, if she really wanted it, or simply refused to go. Or even chosen not to kill during the raid (she almost did (which almost cost her her life) but ultimately chose to kill in the end).

 

[someday]

This is the type of hyperbole I'm talking about. It's just silly. He's not insane and the guy running posed an indirect threat to his community. Obviously he's got issues, but nowhere near the level of the bolded in this post. I've already described (in detail) the issues with Rick in response to a previous post.

We don't know if that guy was a threat at all. His responses to Rick were reasonable, especially in light that Rick was threatening him and armed. This guy was minding his own business when they showed up. Wasn't he running away from or fighting walkers? Sure, our group is in the middle of a war but that doesn't give them the right to kill every single human they run across "just in case."

Comic spoilers and some future show assumptions ahead:

Spoiler

This is perhaps why I'm biased here. We know that the guy running posed no threat to Rick and Alexandria at all but in Rick's mind, everyone is a threat. This is a problem and makes him dangerous to normal, decent people and he's been in this state for a season and a half at least.

 

[Surfinn]

We don't know if that guy was a threat at all. His responses to Rick were reasonable, especially in light that Rick was threatening him and armed. This guy was minding his own business when they showed up. Wasn't he running away from or fighting walkers? Sure, our group is in the middle of a war but that doesn't give them the right to kill every single human they run across "just in case."

Comic spoilers and some future show assumptions ahead:

Spoiler

This is perhaps why I'm biased here. We know that the guy running posed no threat to Rick and Alexandria at all but in Rick's mind, everyone is a threat. This is a problem and makes him dangerous to normal, decent people and he's been in this state for a season and a half at least.

Right, we don't. But we also don't know if the guy is a Negan scout, and I gotta say, I don't agree that his responses were reasonable at all. He's just out in the middle of nowhere with some walkers around, they approach him, he warns them there's walkers nearby, and just bolts in the opposite direction?

I agree he's jumping the gun and being reckless, but.. crazy? Shooting at innocent people who pose no threat? Simply not true. Everyone is a potential threat that they don't know (not to justify shooting and just anyone). The dude in the field looked and responded in a way that would make anyone at least slightly suspicious of who he is and what his intentions are (considering they're in the beginning of an all out war).

 

[More_Badass]

Right, we don't. But we also don't know if the guy is a Negan scout, and I gotta say, I don't agree that his responses were reasonable at all. He's just out in the middle of nowhere with some walkers around, they approach him, he warns them there's walkers nearby, and just bolts in the opposite direction?

I agree he's jumping the gun and being reckless, but.. crazy? Shooting at innocent people who pose no threat? Simply not true.

If walkers are coming, and you lost your weapon, and you run into two armed men that don't look friendly (even Jesus said that was his first impressions of them), in this world...I'd say getting hell out of there when you have the chance is perfectly reasonable. If Rick can attack preemptively, others should be able to flee preemptively

 

[Surfinn]

If walkers are coming, and you lost your weapon, and you run into two armed men that don't look friendly (even Jesus said that was his first impressions of them), in this world...I'd say getting hell out of there when you have the chance is perfectly reasonable. If Rick can attack preemptively, others should be able to flee preemptively

He can do as he pleases (dude in the field), but that doesn't make him look any less suspicious running away with almost no conversation from someone who's armed and alert. Do you think anyone else in that position wouldn't have shot at the guy? If it were me, I'd wanna make damn sure I at least try to explain my way out of it instead of essentially being like "Look! Walkers!" /run full speed in opposite direction. He could have handled himself much better considering the context.

 

[someday]

Right, we don't. But we also don't know if the guy is a Negan scout, and I gotta say, I don't agree that his responses were reasonable at all. He's just out in the middle of nowhere with some walkers around, they approach him, he warns them there's walkers nearby, and just bolts in the opposite direction?

I agree he's jumping the gun and being reckless, but.. crazy? Shooting at innocent people who pose no threat? Simply not true. Everyone is a potential threat that they don't know (not to justify shooting and just anyone). The dude in the field looked and responded in a way that would make anyone at least slightly suspicious of who he is and what his intentions are (considering they're in the beginning of an all out war).

He bolted because Rick threatened to kill him and was demanding him to do something against his own will. What normal person wouldn't have been terrified of Rick in that moment?

If they were right outside Alexandria's walls and they found this guy, I'd be more lenient about the overabundance of caution but they were over 12 miles away from their turf. Other people are allowed to exist and it just isn't Rick's God-given right to shoot anyone he pleases. He's crossed a line. I can't think of any other person in Alexandria that would have taken that shot now that Carol has changed.

 

[Surfinn]

He bolted because Rick threatened to kill him and was demanding him to do something against his own will. What normal person wouldn't have been terrified of Rick in that moment?

If they were right outside Alexandria's walls and they found this guy, I'd be more lenient about the overabundance of caution but they were over 12 miles away from their turf. Other people are allowed to exist and it just isn't Rick's God-given right to shoot anyone he pleases. He's crossed a line. I can't think of any other person in Alexandria that would have taken that shot now that Carol has changed.

I can think of lots of people who would have taken that shot. They're at war with Negan's army who just murdered an Alexandrian with no questions asked (which led to a straight up shootout). I'm not saying shooting the guy is the "right" thing to do, and if he would have just started popping off at him right away, sure, that would have been totally unjustified. It's a tough decision to make, and as we've seen in the past, letting people go can have just as awful consequences as killing them. But given the context that Negan could essentially be around the corner waiting to headshot someone else from Alexandria, Rick's decision was still precautionary as he saw him as a threat who was about to give the enemy vital information. I don't necessarily agree with it (I wouldn't have personally taken the shot) but I'm also not in a position where someone inside of my community was just murdered. It's a tough call because that person very well could have turned the entire war against their favor.

I don't necessarily agree with you that he "crossed a line" or that Carol's decision to leave makes the context any different.

 

[someday]

I can think of lots of people who would have taken that shot. They're at war with Negan's army who just murdered someone in front of their eyes (which led to a straight up shootout). I'm not saying shooting the guy is the "right" thing to do, and if he would have just started popping off at him right away, sure, that would have been totally unjustified. It's a tough decision to make, and as we've seen in the past, letting people go can have as awful consequences as killing them. But given the context that Negan could essentially be around the corner waiting to headshot someone else from Alexandria, Rick's decision was still precautionary as he saw him as a threat who was about to give the enemy vital information. I don't necessarily agree with it (I wouldn't have personally taken the shot) but I'm also not in a position where someone inside of my community was just murdered. It's a tough call because that person very well could have turned the entire war against their favor.

Rick and Morgan were standing in the middle of a field. Rick didn't treat him like a threat; he treated him like he was disposable.

Yes, I get it. We're at war. But Rick chose to shoot at an obviously unarmed man who had been looking for his horse. The guy even warned them about the walkers that were coming. A bad guy would have sat back and hoped the walkers did the dirty work for him. I'm not sure how he was supposed to turn the tide though.

 

[Napoleonthechimp]

This is the type of hyperbole I'm talking about. It's just silly. He's not insane and the guy running posed an indirect threat to his community. Obviously he's got issues, but nowhere near the level of the bolded in this post. I've already described (in detail) the issues with Rick in response to a previous post.



What? How is anything she's doing "against her will"? She chooses to kill in order to survive. If Morgan had to kill in the same situation (given the opportunity), he'd have just died or been captured instead. Carol is not being forced to do anything against her will; she chose to follow the rest of the group and murder with them. She clearly knew what would happen before she left. She could have chosen to leave THEN, if she really wanted it, or simply refused to go. Or even chosen not to kill during the raid (she almost did (which almost cost her her life) but ultimately chose to kill in the end).

It is a perceived threat, and unlike the Saviors is not something based in fact. It was basically a case of executing someone because you don't like the look of them.

For me that scene was the deal breaker when it comes to Rick. I honestly find him deserving of whatever shit is coming his way, but it is a shame that others will have to pay the price for it.

 

[someday]

It is a perceived threat, and unlike the Saviors is not something based in fact. It was basically a case of executing someone because you don't like the look of them.

For me that scene was the deal breaker when it comes to Rick. I honestly find him deserving of whatever shit is coming his way, but it is a shame that others will have to pay the price for it.

Especially considering his immediate family has the ultimate plot armor.

 

[jroc74]

I do agree with those saying Rick is a lil too cocky now. That bed scene with Michonne and them eating that apple told me that.

And some other scene mentioning they will take whatever they want if Hilltop dont agree with their terms. I think they were at Hilltop when he said that.

To me...Rick sounds like he's 2 steps away from becoming Negan. Or the Governor. I like the dont take chances attitude he has...but dont get too cocky with it.

 

[Surfinn]

It is a perceived threat, and unlike the Saviors is not something based in fact. It was basically a case of executing someone because you don't like the look of them.

For me that scene was the deal breaker when it comes to Rick. I honestly find him deserving of whatever shit is coming his way, but it is a shame that others will have to pay the price for it.

Not about look, but action. His actions looked sketchy to me.. as soon as Rick started talking to him, he started acting like something was up. It would have been interesting to see how things would have gone down if there were no walkers around. I also can't tell if it was just poor writing that made him seem more in a hurry/abrupt than they were going for. Without the walkers would have been a true test for Rick. It was a bad combination on the part of the writers, IMO. Gave Rick more of a way out to justify the aggression.

 

[eyeball_kid]

I feel like some people here are viewing TWD more like a videogame; only seeing things in terms of strategy and tactics, instead of looking at the emotional and moral context. But to me, a central theme of TWD has always been, "How do you keep your humanity in a world that's trying to kill you?" Rick and the group have kept most of their humanity intact through their journey, but when you pre-meditatively murder people you've crossed a line. People here have said that it was justified, but I'm reminded of Radovan Karadzic, former leader of the Serbian Republic in Bosnia, who was recently convicted of genocide commited during the Serbian war in the '90s. Reporters who interviewed him said he was an affable, polite man, and very matter-of-fact about his plans for ethnic cleansing. "We must reduce the non-Serbian population to 5% to achieve stability," he would say. People that only follow logic's course without feeling empathy for others, without valuing the lives of others, can lead themselves down a road to absolutely inhuman behavior. To them, it's simply pragmatism or the only choice that ensures their interests win out.

We saw that kind of ruthless sociopathy in Shane, and in the Governor. "Protect what's yours, at all costs." We're seeing that now with Rick and some of his group. And I say Rick's group because no one except Morgan voiced dissent when Rick called for a vote to slaughter the Saviors.

This show is called The Walking Dead, which we always took to mean the walkers, but when you're willing to give away most of what makes you human in order to survive, you're rotting from the inside already.

I do agree with those saying Rick is a lil too cocky now. That bed scene with Michonne and them eating that apple told me that.

The apple scene seemed a bit metaphorical, like Adam and Eve giving into sin. But it also really reminded me of scenes from the Governor; living in comparitive luxury, and justifying anything to keep it.

Not about look, but action. His actions looked sketchy to me.. as soon as Rick started talking to him, he started acting like something was up. It would have been interesting to see how things would have gone down if there were no walkers around. I also can't tell if it was just poor writing that made him seem more in a hurry/abrupt than they were going for.

I thought the guy running away said, "I gotta catch my horse, watch out for those walkers!" but maybe I misheard. And I mentioned this before, but I feel the writers put the scene in intentionally as a metaphor for all the cop shootings. Since Rick is an ex-cop after all, and he's been desensitized to the point where he's ready to shoot anyone that looks funny at him.

 

[hey_monkey]

I think the other poster was suggesting that even as an embryo/fetus, since mother and baby share that blood link, the zombified fetus could "infect" Maggie. The show really confused the rules on this... first we thought bites infected you, then we learned they were all infected, but still for some reason zombie bites "trigger" the infection. So fetus zombie blood going into Maggie's blood could be bad news, if her baby does end up dying.

That would actually be kind of fascinating (a real problem of lack of modern medical care and machinery, and something that could be a true threat to everyone's future, though I'm not sure TWD is that kind of show), but there were definitely some folks musing about teeth and just nope.

 

[Jimbob Smalls]

The better thing would've been to take the knowledge that there's a big, formalized, baddie group out there and use the fact that Negan's didn't really know about Rick's group yet to do recon. Scout the area, get a sense of how big Negan's forces are. Then decide what to do with knowledge in hand. Rick and Maggie were reckless, arrogant, and worst of all poorly informed. They showed themselves to not be a truly organized group, but just a ragtag collection of people who can fight without a leader with a steady hand. Being reckless is the surest way to get yourself killed in that world.

To put in terms of your avatar, Luke got a little training from Yoda and suddenly thought he was a badass Jedi, and decided to take on Vader. Wanted revenge. Luke was not prepared at all; didn't understand how powerful Vader was. Paid dearly for that recklessness. It was only in ROTJ after he had trained more, when he had a plan, and was clear-headed that he was able to take Vader on successfully.

Rick and Daryl and Maggie rushed into situations with recklessness, their thinking clouded by emotion and arrogance. They will pay dearly for that.




I think the other poster was suggesting that even as an embryo/fetus, since mother and baby share that blood link, the zombified fetus could "infect" Maggie. The show really confused the rules on this... first we thought bites infected you, then we learned they were all infected, but still for some reason zombie bites "trigger" the infection. So fetus zombie blood going into Maggie's blood could be bad news, if her baby does end up dying.



Morgan also let that group of Wolves go, who then came upon Rick's RV and almost killed him. Actions do have consequences, but a "good" action doesn't always result in a "good" outcome.

Bites don't trigger that specific infection from what I can gather. Bites trigger a different fatal infection which can't be cured which upon death the zombie infection kicks in.

 

[Genryu]

Bites don't trigger that specific infection from what I can gather. Bites trigger a different fatal infection which can't be cured which upon death the zombie infection kicks in.

Yeah, bites just seem to cause a fairly intense fever that kills you. Since everyone is already infected, all it would NEED to do is kill you.

 

[SolidChamp]

I do agree with those saying Rick is a lil too cocky now. That bed scene with Michonne and them eating that apple told me that.

And some other scene mentioning they will take whatever they want if Hilltop dont agree with their terms. I think they were at Hilltop when he said that.

To me...Rick sounds like he's 2 steps away from becoming Negan. Or the Governor. I like the dont take chances attitude he has...but dont get too cocky with it.

*VERY, VERY MILD COMIC SPOILERS...THEMATIC, NOT PLOT RELATED*

That's kind of the whole point of

Spoiler

Negan

.

Spoiler

He's the anti-Rick.

 

[Napoleonthechimp]

Not about look, but action. His actions looked sketchy to me.. as soon as Rick started talking to him, he started acting like something was up. It would have been interesting to see how things would have gone down if there were no walkers around. I also can't tell if it was just poor writing that made him seem more in a hurry/abrupt than they were going for. Without the walkers would have been a true test for Rick. It was a bad combination on the part of the writers, IMO. Gave Rick more of a way out to justify the aggression.

Yeah, it's called running away from a man with a gun in a world where people shoot each other with guns.

Try to see it from other characters perspectives. For all he knew Rick and Morgan were killers and he used the coming zombies as a distraction to get away before Rick could kill him (which still nearly happened).

But I'm not interested going over this same topic over and over again, especially given that you don't seem to see the obvious things the writers are setting up.

 

[Theanine3D]

This show is called The Walking Dead, which we always took to mean the walkers, but when you're willing to give away most of what makes you human in order to survive, you're rotting from the inside already.

I hadn't thought of it that way. Well put!

 

[More_Badass]

ITo me...Rick sounds like he's 2 steps away from becoming Negan. Or the Governor. I like the dont take chances attitude he has...but dont get too cocky with it.

He's taking pages right out of the Governor's playbook. Convincing his group to preemptively attack another group, to kill them all. They even focused on Tara's reaction during his talk in the church to further hammer that point home

This show is called The Walking Dead, which we always took to mean the walkers, but when you're willing to give away most of what makes you human in order to survive, you're rotting from the inside already.

Rick realized that a while ago

In the show, he said the line and speech last season

 

[Trick_GSF]

Not too sure on the deets, but apparently audio of Negans entrance have been posted online. Just a heads up.

Personally, I'm staying away from everything WD until after Sunday.

 

[raindoc]

Not too sure on the deets, but apparently audio of Negans entrance have been posted online. Just a heads up.

Personally, I'm staying away from everything WD until after Sunday.

Yep, it's out there and while I haven't listened to it myself it seems to be the dialogue from the script that leaked a couple days ago. No hints on who's the victim.

 

[The Artisan]

He's taking pages right out of the Governor's playbook. Convincing his group to preemptively attack another group, to kill them all. They even focused on Tara's reaction during his talk in the church to further hammer that point home

he isn't evil though. he wanted to give jesus a chance, which turned out to be the right thing to do.

 

[Sendero]

What? How is anything she's doing "against her will"? She chooses to kill in order to survive... she chose to follow the rest of the group and murder with them. She clearly knew what would happen before she left. She could have chosen to leave THEN, if she really wanted it, or simply refused to go. Or even chosen not to kill during the raid (she almost did (which almost cost her her life) but ultimately chose to kill in the end).

When you have someone important to protect, you can't simple "choose" not to do it. It comes with the package. Specially if you have the appropriate skills to do so, and they don't. That's it, unless you have the personality of a coward or don't have the minimum of empathy.

As the show clearly spelled it to us, Carol's behavior has been that of a mother (not hard to deduce that it's a reaction because she couldn't help her own daughter), the protector. It's simply not in her current personality to stand idle and see her people die in front of her. So, she is choosing to remove herself from that environment instead.

Yes, you could argue that she is abandoning them (and I would partially agree). But she can rationalize it, thinking there are others capable enough there to continue playing that role. There is nothing deep or special on her behavior. She is reacting to what she perceives, is the best approach at that point in time. It's up to you to decide if you agree with her choice, but the discussion has been about her acting out of character, not if she is doing the right thing.

 

[Surfinn]

Yeah, it's called running away from a man with a gun in a world where people shoot each other with guns.

Try to see it from other characters perspectives. For all he knew Rick and Morgan were killers and he used the coming zombies as a distraction to get away before Rick could kill him (which still nearly happened).

But I'm not interested going over this same topic over and over again, especially given that you don't seem to see the obvious things the writers are setting up.

The way it was filmed looked really sketchy from the forced walker drama (right when they show up) all the way down to the clunky dialogue. Like I said, it would have played out much better without the walkers, because then we'd get a true sense of who Rick currently is.

When you have someone important to protect, you can't simple "choose" not to do it. It comes with the package. Specially if you have the appropriate skills to do so, and they don't. That's it, unless you have the personality of a coward or don't have the minimum of empathy.

As the show clearly spelled it to us, Carol's behavior has been that of a mother (not hard to deduce that it's a reaction because she couldn't help her own daughter), the protector. It's simply not in her current personality to stand idle and see her people die in front of her. So, she is choosing to remove herself from that environment instead.

Yes, you could argue that she is abandoning them. But she can rationalize it, knowing there are others capable enough there to continue playing that role. There is nothing deep or special on her behavior. She is reacting to what she perceives, is the best approach at that point in time. It's up to you to decide if you agree with her choice, but the discussion has been about her acting out of character, not if she is doing the right thing.

What..? Yes you can.

I have no idea how you're deducing that she somehow doesn't have a choice in protecting or killing. I get what you're saying about who she is and where she comes from, but EVERYONE has always made decisions on this show about what they do in given situations/contexts and pretending like there's no choice involved (whether at Alexandria or elsewhere) is bizarre.

"someone important to protect?" Well, that's up to the individual, and Carol is no exception. She's not going to automatically help someone who appears innocent on the side of the road, in a new camp, or anywhere else just because she has this particular duty you speaking of. "comes with the package?" This is just a strange way of thinking about her character. No one is a "package", as they've shown with her development and Morgan's.. and well, just about everyone else on the show. In fact, characters change so drastically and abruptly that I wouldn't be surprised if she becomes a hardened killer again in season 7.

You've seemingly labeled her as a permanent protector of the innocent who has absolutely no say in her actions (given the particular context), which is really odd to me.

 

[Sendero]

You've seemingly labeled her as a permanent protector of the innocent who has absolutely no say in her actions (given the particular context), which is really odd to me.

Seriously that's what you understood from all the posts before? That she will protect every person, no matter whom they are and what's their relation to her, as long as they are good? Are you being deliberately obtuse?

She only has protected those that she deems dear to her and don't have the skill to do so themselves. Notice that in the show, she never reached the conclusion that she will stop doing that. Instead, she said that she won't be attached to other persons any more, because she can't keep killing for them.

And I'm not deducting anything. She say as much on her goodbye card, almost word by word. Tobin described her personality just a few chapters ago, when they first kissed. But we do not need that to grasp what makes her tick. Her story in the show has been about doing whatever it takes to ensure the survival of her close circle (even willing to take the sisters with her), never -ever- has been about her own self only or about random red shirts.

It's ok if you don't like how the show presented all of this. It's ok if you want Carol not to go that path, or that the Carol in your mind would have never reached this point. But well, that's not what we got.

 

[Surfinn]

Seriously that's what you understood from all the posts before? That she will protect every person, no matter whom they are and what's their relation to her, as long as they are good? Are you being deliberately obtuse?

She only has protected those that she deems dear to her and don't have the skill to do so themselves. Notice that in the show, she never reached the conclusion that she will stop doing that. Instead, she said that she won't be attached to other persons any more, because she can't keep killing for them.

And I'm not deducting anything. She say as much on her goodbye card, almost word by word. Tobin described her personality just a few chapters ago, when they first kissed. Her story in the show has been about doing whatever it takes to ensure the survival of her close circle, never -ever- has been about her own self only or about random red shirts.

It's ok if you don't like how the show presented all of this. It's ok if you want Carol not to go that path, or that the Carol in your mind would have never reached this point. But well, that's not what we got.

I was responding to your "someone important to protect", which was incredibly vague. If that means you're simply talking about people who she's grown to care for and trust, I still don't understand why you're completely removing her choice. No one in the group expects her to kill or forced her hand in any way to do the things she's done, she's DECIDED to do them. It's not her "job" or expected role inside of the group; she's taken it upon herself to save the group multiple times. She didn't have to come back for them at Terminus, she simply could have left after being cast aside for her decision to kill at the prison.

No one expects these things from her.

So I really don't understand why you insist that she's got no choice and that it "comes with the package", whatever that means.

 

[Killing_Joke]

The more i think about it, the more i get annoyed at Morgans philosophy.

Rick is still the good guy despite everything.

- He reasoned with Shane. Shane lost his mind and had to go.
- He reasoned with the prisoners. Got his wife killed. STILL gave Axel and Oscar a chance.
- He reasoned with the fucking Governor. Got Hershel and a bunch of others killed.
- He reasoned with the cannibals. Took them hostage and ate Bob. Came back to kill the group after letting them live.
- He reasoned with Pete. Still beat the shit out of his wife and killed Reg.
- He also took faith in a shit load of people. Was never going to kill the kid in season 2, took in Woodsbury people, Aaron, Jesus, etc.

Negans group is literally the first time Rick was a little cold blooded but even then, it's still justified. Biker gang was going to kill them, Jesus told them the story about Negan killing the boy, and there was Dwight fucking over Daryl. Which ended up killing Denise.

Morgan came back because at the end of the day he IS a good guy inside. He just went mental after losing his family. All of TWD villains are a lost cause. Can't be saved. They DID try and it failed every time. No reason to give Rick shit about killing. Give Rick a karate stick in any of those situations and they'll be fucked.

 

[Sendero]

..I still don't understand why you're completely removing her choice. No one in the group expects her to kill or forced her hand in any way to do the things she's done, she's DECIDED to do them. It's not her "job" or expected role inside of the group; she's taken it upon herself to save the group multiple times...

No one expects these things from her.

So I really don't understand why you insist that she's got no choice and that it "comes with the package", whatever that means.

I already explained that multiple times, including the post you just answered.

Never said that she was doing that due to peer pressure or because someone assigned the role to her. In her own words: "We are what we are" (her 1st combo with Daryl. Also, look at the context, there is a reason of why I'm quoting that here).

Once again: She certainly has 100% the option to not do that. But she has 0 reasons to go that route, because that's against what she is, what she has done so far and what she believes. Not since her daughter's incident.

Since she won't change that part of her, and since she understands that it's not realistic to hope living happily with someone weaker without having to fight for it, she is instead trying to remove the final part of the equation, which is: not get attached, to begin with (so you don't have a motive to protect).

 

[Surfinn]

She is hoping that by not getting attached to someone else, again, she would not be forced to kill against her will. And if she does, is because she wants, not because she must.

When you have someone important to protect, you can't simply "choose" not to do it. It comes with the package.

Once again: She certainly has 100% the option to not do that.

This is what caused a setback in our conversation and why I'm confused; you're saying things that directly contradict each other. That's partly why we're going in circles.

So Carol's solution is: only kill for myself and remove any chance of having a shot a normalcy (developing relationships, returning to the life she longs for)? Choose an existence of despair (until she dies) while destroying any chance of improving her quality of life? And this is something she premeditated over time and NOT a breakdown?

I'll agree to disagree with you here that her reasoning is sound. Thanks for the conversation though.

The more i think about it, the more i get annoyed at Morgans philosophy.

Rick is still the good guy despite everything.

- He reasoned with Shane. Shane lost his mind and had to go.
- He reasoned with the prisoners. Got his wife killed. STILL gave Axel and Oscar a chance.
- He reasoned with the fucking Governor. Got Hershel and a bunch of others killed.
- He reasoned with the cannibals. Took them hostage and ate Bob. Came back to kill the group after letting them live.
- He reasoned with Pete. Still beat the shit out of his wife and killed Reg.
- He also took faith in a shit load of people. Was never going to kill the kid in season 2, took in Woodsbury people, Aaron, Jesus, etc.

Negans group is literally the first time Rick was a little cold blooded but even then, it's still justified. Biker gang was going to kill them, Jesus told them the story about Negan killing the boy, and there was Dwight fucking over Daryl. Which ended up killing Denise.

Morgan came back because at the end of the day he IS a good guy inside. He just went mental after losing his family. All of TWD villains are a lost cause. Can't be saved. They DID try and it failed every time. No reason to give Rick shit about killing. Give Rick a karate stick in any of those situations and they'll be fucked.

I think people paint Rick in a negative light, and while I agree he's made huge mistakes (that he'll pay for) with his strategy to attack first (not THE decision to do it, but HOW), it's seriously hard to argue that Rick is in the wrong for defending himself and Alexandria against a force that's already proven itself to be mercilessly brutal BEFORE even coming in physical contact with them. His lack of planning and foresight will be his undoing, but given all that's happened before, most people would have already become a Negan or Governor by now. He's held it together pretty well for someone in his position (even if they've written him and other characters into the ground in the last few episodes).

 

[Badlucktroll]

I found this online someplace

 

[PMS341]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93wUPHFx2sU

spoilers for mid-season

 

[Air Zombie Meat]

Negans group is literally the first time Rick was a little cold blooded but even then, it's still justified. Biker gang was going to kill them, Jesus told them the story about Negan killing the boy, and there was Dwight fucking over Daryl. Which ended up killing Denise.

I don't think so. Remember the ex cop that tricked Sasha and escaped during the hospital arc? Rick ran him down and executed him just because he tested his patience. It wasn't only unnecessary but it put the hostage exchange at risk. I thought that was fucked up at the time but of course Rick fans were cheering him on for being badass.

 

[Surfinn]

I don't think so. Remember the ex cop that tricked Sasha and escaped during the hospital arc? Rick ran him down and executed him just because he tested his patience. It wasn't only unnecessary but it put the hostage exchange at risk. I thought that was fucked up at the time but of course Rick fans were cheering him on for being badass.

I agree it was a little ruthless, but how else was he going to stop the guy? Get out of his car and chase him on foot? He demanded/warned him multiple times to stop (he's rolling behind him in a CAR while the dude is running away on foot). It's either that or risk chasing him down too far and into enemy territory (while abandoning a running/working vehicle and potentially running straight into armed enemies).

It was cold, but what were his options?

 

[Air Zombie Meat]

I agree it was a little ruthless, but how else was he going to stop the guy? Get out of his car and chase him on foot? He demanded/warned him multiple times to stop (he's rolling behind him in a CAR while the dude is running away on foot). It's either that or risk chasing him down too far and into enemy territory (while abandoning a running/working vehicle and potentially running straight into armed enemies).

It was cold, but what are his options?

It wasn't really the running him down that was so bad. He could have put him in the car after running him down. He was helpless and crippled on the ground, no need to put a bullet in his head. He even made light of it with a quip "I told you to stop" *bang*

 

[venom2124]

I usually watch new episodes on Monday through the iTunes Store or psn store. Being the season finale is hyped to destroy all life as we know it, I need to watch it Sunday. Does anyone know how quickly the new episodes are put on the iTunes or playstation store?

 

[Surfinn]

It wasn't really the running him down that was so bad. He could have put him in the car after running him down. He was helpless and crippled on the ground, no need to put a bullet in his head. He even made light of it with a quip "I told you to stop" *bang*

Yeah, I guess he could have stuffed the guy back in his car, but he was also in a vulnerable position, being out in the open. Honestly the dude running was pretty stupid for making that decision.. Rick was working on a trade that would have gotten them all back safely. I could see if they were debating whether or not they were going to execute their prisoners, but seemed like they were going to be back home soon enough.

I think Rick saw it as "you put us all at risk, including myself, when all you had to do was wait and you potentially fucked it all up". He partly finished him off because he was pissed, I agree with that, but it's not like he went after the guy in cold blood. What was he going to do with a dude with a broken back in the middle of god knows where when he's all alone, next to his running vehicle? I think a lot of his decision to kill was like "look what you've done, now what the hell am I supposed to do with you after you made a horrible decision to escape and fuck the plan up".

Rick and co. have a history of helping/trusting people when they shouldn't. Rick wanted to remove the threat and he just wanted it done. I think he also saw it as "I'm not going to risk my life for you after this".

 

[Air Zombie Meat]

Yeah, I guess he could have stuffed the guy back in his car, but he was also in a vulnerable position, being out in the open. Honestly the dude running was pretty stupid for making that decision.. Rick was working on a trade that would have gotten them all back safely. I could see if they were debating whether or not they were going to execute their prisoners, but seemed like they were going to be back home soon enough.

I think Rick saw it as "you put us all at risk, including myself, when all you had to do was wait and you potentially fucked it all up". He partly finished him off because he was pissed, I agree with that, but it's not like he went after the guy in cold blood. What was he going to do with a dude with a broken back in the middle of god knows where when he's all alone, next to his running vehicle?

Well we don't know the extent of his injuries, I give you that. But they were about to trade him back to a fully functioning hospital. IIRC Rick was resistant to the idea of even doing a hostage swap, he just wanted to go in there and kill everyone.

It's worth remembering that the escapee could have killed sasha, taken her gun and turned it on Rick and co but he didn't. All he did was escape.

Ricks been a psychopath for a long time imo and the show keeps going further with it.

 

[Surfinn]

Well we don't know the extent of his injuries, I give you that. But they were about to trade him back to a fully functioning hospital. IIRC Rick was resistant to the idea of even doing a hostage swap, he just wanted to go in there and kill everyone.

It's worth remembering that the escapee could have killed sasha, taken her gun and turned it on Rick and co but he didn't. All he did was escape.

Ricks been a psychopath for a long time imo and the show keeps going further with it.

Definitely not (to the bolded). While I think anyone can agree that Rick is sometimes cold and ruthless, he's nowhere near crazy or psychotic. If you want to see a good example of this, watch seasons 3 and 4 and examine the governor.

If I remember correctly, the guy didn't even have a chance to attack anyone because his hands were tied behind his back? Anyone he would have tried to kill, he would have lost because of his restraints.

Good point, they could have swapped him back to the hospital, but I think Rick rightfully didn't want to put anymore risk into helping the dude when he's proven he's a direct threat to the plan that was going to (or supposed to) satisfy both parties, peacefully.

And the guy told Rick "I think you broke my back" after he hit him. Dude was in bad shape and it would have required a lot of effort and ESPECIALLY risk to put him in the back of the car and hope he wasn't going to either be attacked by someone on the road or the guy himself (potentially lying about the extend of his injury). Would you wanna drive in a car with someone in the backseat who's potentially still a direct threat/dangerous?

 

[Air Zombie Meat]

Ricks not at governor level yet but he's slowly heading there. The show even makes the comparison directly with the scene where Tara is noticing the similarities. Anyway I'm not looking to change your mind, just giving my opinion. I get that he has justifications and reasons but I still feel he goes too far at times and the writers are trying to say that.