Thaedolus
Gold Member
He probably expected it to be a blank not a live round.
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Alec Baldwin Kills Cinematographer Halyna Hutchins With Real Gun
- Thread starter ManaByte
- Start date
Kilau
Gold Member
Shit, that is just even more awful.
a multicultural team of v
Member
BigBooper
Member
I fully believe that, but for someone so against gun ownership and all that, you'd expect them to try to be extra careful. Maybe they are too ignorant about it, but still...
Gp1
Member
In The Crow case, for time constraints, they fabricated the blanks on set by removing the primer and powder of live rounds to do a realistic dummy cartridge for revolver. One of the cartridge still had the primer, dislodged the bullet into the chamber, they didn't cleared the chamber, and a second blank shot ejected the first bullet out of the chamber killing Brandon Lee.
Maybe that's the same case? And no one learned nothing in 30 years?
It just don't make sense to have a 100% hot gun on set being handled to the actors. If that was the case, Baldwin as a producer could be held responsible.
ps. Love how Hollywood just run to get cover their own asses
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Thaedolus
Gold Member
He could’ve done everything exactly right, not aimed directly at anyone, discharged the weapon and the round ricocheted into the victims. We just don’t know what happened yet.
MaulerX
Member
I guess they were trying to save a few bucks by hiring non-union workers. Who was responsible for this decision?
PuppetMaster
Member
Ironically the movie they were making is about an accidental murder. And rescuing the kid (Alex Baldwin's character's son) sentenced to hang for it.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Looks like the movie is a documentary about Alec Baldwin.
Aggressive Carrot
Member
Why have a live round? It's crazy. I wouldn't be able to sleep right for a while if I killed someone.
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Ooph, if the live gun thing is true that is SSSOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO bad.
So a couple of scenarios with guilt being attributed to different things
1. Alec has a live gun (fail on the armorer) and shoots it recklessly (if the "one more take and I'm gonna shoot you" thing has any validity) towards the film crew (Alec goes to jail).
2. Alec was pointing and operating what he and the film crew thought was a blank gun appropriately according to the shooting script, but the live round penetrates the safety screen or whatever and kills the woman. 100% armorer fail but may also be a basic camera team safety fail as they were downrange of a live fire event and their safety measures were not sufficient in the event of a live round discharge.
3. Alec was rehearsing or WASN'T supposed to use a hot gun at all, just a rubber dummy or a non-firing/unloaded prop so there weren't the safety protocols needed for a live shoot, and he squeezed the trigger deliberately according to script, accidentally in a direction he wasn't supposed to (a negligent discharge in shooting parlance), or goes off script and pulls the trigger. Varying levels of blame for Alec but still almost 100% on the armorer.
The lesson learned here, for me anyway, is that we should be using CGI not to mimic firing, but to hide more significant safety markings on various film weapons. Non-firing "training" guns are usually blue so everyone can easily tell. This is something that could be easily edited over in post so actors and crew can more easily see when a weapon is a true dummy gun versus a potentially dangerous tool on set, kind of like how CGI can be used to remove wires and safety harnesses so cast can do more practical stuntwork rather than using CGI to totally replace humans entirely. I think the proliferation of CGI muzzle flashes has allowed movies to show much more dynamic and close range shooting (John Wick is a good example of this, none of that shooting while wrestling choreography would be safe if the gun actually did something) and film crews might be losing some of the expertise that made real blank guns safer on set.
Fucking tragic all around and I hope Alec at least learns some humility from this and doesn't just crusade against the crew.
So a couple of scenarios with guilt being attributed to different things
1. Alec has a live gun (fail on the armorer) and shoots it recklessly (if the "one more take and I'm gonna shoot you" thing has any validity) towards the film crew (Alec goes to jail).
2. Alec was pointing and operating what he and the film crew thought was a blank gun appropriately according to the shooting script, but the live round penetrates the safety screen or whatever and kills the woman. 100% armorer fail but may also be a basic camera team safety fail as they were downrange of a live fire event and their safety measures were not sufficient in the event of a live round discharge.
3. Alec was rehearsing or WASN'T supposed to use a hot gun at all, just a rubber dummy or a non-firing/unloaded prop so there weren't the safety protocols needed for a live shoot, and he squeezed the trigger deliberately according to script, accidentally in a direction he wasn't supposed to (a negligent discharge in shooting parlance), or goes off script and pulls the trigger. Varying levels of blame for Alec but still almost 100% on the armorer.
The lesson learned here, for me anyway, is that we should be using CGI not to mimic firing, but to hide more significant safety markings on various film weapons. Non-firing "training" guns are usually blue so everyone can easily tell. This is something that could be easily edited over in post so actors and crew can more easily see when a weapon is a true dummy gun versus a potentially dangerous tool on set, kind of like how CGI can be used to remove wires and safety harnesses so cast can do more practical stuntwork rather than using CGI to totally replace humans entirely. I think the proliferation of CGI muzzle flashes has allowed movies to show much more dynamic and close range shooting (John Wick is a good example of this, none of that shooting while wrestling choreography would be safe if the gun actually did something) and film crews might be losing some of the expertise that made real blank guns safer on set.
Fucking tragic all around and I hope Alec at least learns some humility from this and doesn't just crusade against the crew.
poppabk
Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
Pretty sure it will be a gun loaded with blanks but something in the barrel, either a prop bullet for close-ups (like in the Brandon Lee incident) or something else was propelled out. Pieces of whatever it was likely struck both independently.
MaulerX
Member
I was wondering how he injured both the cinematographer and the director with one shot.
If indeed it was an actual live round it makes sense. They must have been standing parallel to each other. A live round from a somewhat close range means that the bullet entered then exited her body (killing her) . Then the bullet hit the director injuring him.
If indeed it was an actual live round it makes sense. They must have been standing parallel to each other. A live round from a somewhat close range means that the bullet entered then exited her body (killing her) . Then the bullet hit the director injuring him.
MaestroMike
Gold Member
I'm curious how often something like this happens that DOESN'T result in death/injury. Is there a safety oversight group for certain levels of film production? I know damned near every film has that "No animals were harmed during the filming of this production..." verbiage so if they can track animal injury surely they track human ones or near-miss events. But given the wide range of budget and "industry regulation" in the film world I have no idea how common basic safety stuff is compared to other workplace environments.
Jaysen
Banned
Great statement. No matter how awful he feels for accidentally killing her, the emphasis should be on compassion for her and her family.
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That folks feel the need to tweet shit like this with in 24(?) hours of an event makes me sick. It's like reaching out to the family doesn't count unless you get social media cred for it.
Airbus Jr
Banned
Cmon man enough with this hostility calm yourself no need to antagonize people in this situation
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SafeOrAlone
Banned
I'm a bit weirded out by the way a lot of people people are phrasing this as if Alec Baldwin is responsible or some kind of killer.
SafeOrAlone
Banned
The sad thing is people freak out these days when they don't see a social media post regarding a current event. A band member, from a band I love, recently passed away, and half the fan-base was all over the internet whining and complaining about how disappointed or upset they were with the band members not releasing statements on social media.
Like, let the people involved handle their shit, the world doesn't revolve around social media.
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StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
How did he shoot two people?
He pulled the trigger so fast he didn't realize the first shot was real?
He pulled the trigger so fast he didn't realize the first shot was real?
You don't find it odd that less than a day after a fatal mishap on set he (or his PR team) finds the time to craft this nice little tweet to tell the world that he has reached out to the ONE PERSON most affected by this? This isn't a family friend showing public support, this is THE GUY RESPONSIBLE! Be it a deliberate act or tragic accident, how the hell is tweeting anywhere on his radar at this point? This isn't HIS tragedy! Let her husband tell folks how supportive Alec was if he wants, it is the height of conceit to think you should tell other about how awesome you are in handling the grief of others.
Airbus Jr
Banned
Alec didnt say anything : insensitive bastard
Alec say something/apologise : nice pr stunt/ damage control
We need to be carefull with this borderline cancel mode Era attitude
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NecrosaroIII
Ultimate DQ Fan
This would be on the prop master not the actor
Airbus Jr
Banned
The guy just apologize for the situation
I dont understand why that makes you so angry
daveonezero
Banned
I didn’t say who. Someone fucked up.
If the actor knew a thing or two about firearms this could have been prevented even if the prop master fucked up.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
He just fucking killed someone. At the very least, people need to hear from him.
daveonezero
Banned
It wasn’t an accident. It was negligence.
he did point the gun and pull the trigger right?
it didn’t accidentally go off.
blank shooting guns are not fake. You would do this with a BB gun because it might kill someone.
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Pejo
Gold Member
This is pathetic to go on social media and make sure you're saving face. If a guy that pulled the trigger on the gun that killed my wife (regardless if he was entirely responsible or not) reached out to me offering his 'support' I'd likely go into a blind rage. What an asshead.
AJUMP23
Gold Member
If you are handed a gun it is your responsibility to know what ammunition is in it. Then if you point it and pull the trigger it would make sense to assume you bear some responsibility because the gun only fired because you made it fire.
AJUMP23
Gold Member
How many lawyers and members of his media team looked at it first.
I think you should stay quiet in these moments.
Airbus Jr
Banned
He stays quite it will be the same bro " why isnt he saying anything blablabla"
Jaysen
Banned
Exactly.
Thaedolus
Gold Member
Nobody knows the full story yet. Someone was likely negligent, but we don't know who.
rofif
Banned
It will be a fault of the one who prepared the gun
daveonezero
Banned
yes but it is wrong to say it was an accident.
Kilau
Gold Member
I'll preface this by saying I don't like Alec Baldwin either, for a variety reasons.
So people jumping on him now for saying he reached out to the victim's husband like it's some kind of ploy to score points, the husband already told media that Alec had contacted him and is being supportive. He likely waited for the husband to make a statement before he did his own.
Whatever comes of this, an innocent woman, a wife and mother lost her life in a tragic accident and people immediately want to score points against someone they don't like probably for political reasons. It's the same behavior one side is always accusing the other of.
So people jumping on him now for saying he reached out to the victim's husband like it's some kind of ploy to score points, the husband already told media that Alec had contacted him and is being supportive. He likely waited for the husband to make a statement before he did his own.
Whatever comes of this, an innocent woman, a wife and mother lost her life in a tragic accident and people immediately want to score points against someone they don't like probably for political reasons. It's the same behavior one side is always accusing the other of.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Doesn't matter. That is not practicing proper gun safety.
Whoever holds the gun last, always checks to make sure. Always treated as a loaded gun. Never the guy before.
That is gun safety 101. But of course, hOlLyOod and scapegoats, where firearm safety all of a sudden has bendy rules.
RIP to the victims.
BouncyFrag
Member
The armourer on that film set is in big shit.
The person he needs to reach out to is the husband. NOT twitter. He doesn't "owe" random people shit.
Read his statement again. At no point does he say "I'm sorry for this accident". He didn't release an apology, he released a press statement to garner sympathy FOR HIMSELF.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
He seemingly is refusing to take responsibility for proper gun safety. The prop guy and site GM will take the fall for him quite literally not following firearm safety 101.
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Putonahappyface
Gold Member
I imagine anything he says/does will be done with a lawyer close by.
Thaedolus
Gold Member
I don't know what the safety protocols are on a set. For all I know, they don't want an actor fucking around with a gun after they "safe" it, so maybe it wouldn't be on him to check whether the rounds are blanks or not. And he didn't have to be pointing it at them (which you shouldn't even do with a blank) for a live round to kill them.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Alec Baldwin haunted over old tweet wondering ‘how it must feel to wrongfully kill someone’
Baldwin tweeted on Sept. 23, 2017, about Huntington Beach police officer Eric Esparza being caught on video shooting dead Dillan Tabares, who’d punched him and reached for his gun.
nypost.com
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Let me say this slower.
It is still firearm safety 101 for the last to handle the firearm to treat it like its a loaded weapon. Again, regardless of "Hollywood" and their apparent failure in that regards.
If they choose to operate outside basic firearm safely protocol, then they should have negligent manslaughter charges. Much like us normal folk would have if we did not follow the universal basic firearm safety protocols.
But oh you know.
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Thaedolus
Gold Member
I don't need a lecture on firearm safety in normal circumstances, what I'm saying is that being on a set and using blanks probably involves a lot of other protocols neither one of us is familiar with, and the actor could have done everything right and still had this happen. He could've never pointed the gun at anyone at any time, aimed right where he was supposed to and still had a ricochet kill the lady. Whether or not he's supposed to check if the cartridges are live or not I'm not sure, I can imagine scenarios where the experts on set don't want the actor messing with the weapon once it's been handed to them.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Apparently you do.
Firearm safety is firearm safety is firearm safety. End of.
The universal rules should ALWAYS be followed. No if's, and's or but's. I don't care of Massad Ayoob himself handed me a firearm, he would slap the shit out of me if I assumed and did not follow the universal check and procedures.
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Ownage
Member
Limiting liability.
Kenpachii
Member
Its a prop gun, clearly not his fault.
Is twitter already calling for his head? because they need there daily outrage dose?
It's to get the twitter mob from his back and starting to call for his head because these radical fucks got nothing else to do then ruin people's life for entertainment.
U can already see it happening with them digging through his old tweets like it has somekind of relevance towards this shit.
If he doesn't say something public he will be painted as the bad guy becuase twitter demands so.
I am sure as hell he will help the family out, wherever he can because it must feel absolutely terrible.
Is twitter already calling for his head? because they need there daily outrage dose?
It's to get the twitter mob from his back and starting to call for his head because these radical fucks got nothing else to do then ruin people's life for entertainment.
U can already see it happening with them digging through his old tweets like it has somekind of relevance towards this shit.
If he doesn't say something public he will be painted as the bad guy becuase twitter demands so.
I am sure as hell he will help the family out, wherever he can because it must feel absolutely terrible.
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Given this is a western production, I"m assuning he had a single action revolver like a colt. You can't really check the ammunition in them other than taking each round out individually. The cylinder doesn't drop open like a modern revolver and there is no magazine or chamber like a semi-automatic. So if the set armorer hands him a revolver and says "this will fire blanks" or "this will NOT fire" then I'd expect him to have trust in that person. But, IMHO, this does NOT absolve him of where he aims the revolver and when he pulls the trigger, ESPECIALLY if it was supposed to fire a blank round.
I hope the investigation is thorough, that there is video of it, and the culpable parties are held responsible as this sort of thing should be 99% preventable.
I hope the investigation is thorough, that there is video of it, and the culpable parties are held responsible as this sort of thing should be 99% preventable.