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[Bry0]

terrible scores and terrible pricing, AMD continues to aim directly for its own feet.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Are these companies even trying?

Yes, they are trying. But not in consumer GPU's.

Nvidia is currently trying to get TSMC to make as many AI chips as possible. They are sold out the next 18 months on AI chips and have been trying to find new ways to get TSMC to increase their allocations. Every consumer GPU chip Nvidia sells is one fewer AI chip, so Nvidia is trying very hard not to prioritize GPU's.

AMD is currently trying to get TSMC to make as many CPU's as possible. They have Intel on the run in CPU's but are uncompetitive with Nvidia in GPU's. Also they are heavily demand constrained on GPU's but supply constrained on CPU's. Every GPU AMD sells is one fewer CPU, so AMD is trying very hard not to prioritize GPU's.

TSMC is the world's supplier, and bottleneck, of the most advanced semiconductors. They are also the subject of a geopolitical conflict between China and the US, with China loudly (quietly) claiming Taiwan as their territory and the US quietly (loudly) protecting Taiwan's currently uncertain political status.

What I'm saying is everyone is trying in their own way, but no one gives a fuck about your gaming video cards. Suck it up and buy a console if you can't deal with this reality.

 

[ReBurn]

Yes, they are trying. But not in consumer GPU's.

Nvidia is currently trying to get TSMC to make as many AI chips as possible. They are sold out the next 18 months on AI chips and have been trying to find new ways to get TSMC to increase their allocations. Every consumer GPU chip Nvidia sells is one fewer AI chip, so Nvidia is trying very hard not to prioritize GPU's.

AMD is currently trying to get TSMC to make as many CPU's as possible. They have Intel on the run in CPU's but are uncompetitive with Nvidia in GPU's. Also they are heavily demand constrained on GPU's but supply constrained on CPU's. Every GPU AMD sells is one fewer CPU, so AMD is trying very hard not to prioritize GPU's.

TSMC is the world's supplier, and bottleneck, of the most advanced semiconductors. They are also the subject of a geopolitical conflict between China and the US, with China loudly (quietly) claiming Taiwan as their territory and the US quietly (loudly) protecting Taiwan's currently uncertain political status.

What I'm saying is everyone is trying in their own way, but no one gives a fuck about your gaming video cards. Suck it up and buy a console if you can't deal with this reality.

Seems like with TSMC being the bottleneck for these companies they would invest in creating more chip supply and not sit around waiting for TSMC to do it. Guess they learned nothing from covid.

 

[Irobot82]

Seems like with TSMC being the bottleneck for these companies they would invest in creating more chip supply and not sit around waiting for TSMC to do it. Guess they learned nothing from covid.

There's literally 3 companies in the world with advanced node technologies.

TSMC
Samsung
Intel

Then you have Global Foundries and others who are behind.

You can't just flip a switch and create 5nm or 3nm nodes.

 

[ReBurn]

There's literally 3 companies in the world with advanced node technologies.

TSMC
Samsung
Intel

Then you have Global Foundries and others who are behind.

You can't just flip a switch and create 5nm or 3nm nodes.

Who is talking about flipping a switch? The chip shortages started 3 years ago.

 

[Irobot82]

Who is talking about flipping a switch? The chip shortages started 3 years ago.

It takes at least three year to build a cutting edge fab.
TSMC is building one in Arizona right now and it's behind schedule.

Again it's not that simple.

 

[Dice]

I just got a 6700 XT for $300 and it came with Starfield Premium, a $100 game I was going to buy regardless, so it was basically $200 for me. Having played some games, it's a huge step over my previous 1070ti. Lets me do 1440p without raytracing smoothly on basically anything. I think I got the value I wanted and it will help me not build a whole new PC for a couple more years, which will probably be good as AI tech assists some big leaps. Considering this cost effectiveness I just got, I have zero motivation at the moment to do a new high-end build looking at the comparative performance I would get for the expense.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

There's literally 3 companies in the world with advanced node technologies.

TSMC
Samsung
Intel

Then you have Global Foundries and others who are behind.

You can't just flip a switch and create 5nm or 3nm nodes.

Samsung and Intel are 2-3 generations behind TSMC.

TSMC is the world's sole manufacturer of advanced semiconductors.

 

[Chiggs]

Samsung and Intel are 2-3 generations behind TSMC.

TSMC is the world's sole manufacturer of advanced semiconductors.

Intel is probably 5-6 generations behind TSMC.

 

[simpatico]

Uh no. AMD and nvidia hate each other. I doubt there is anything personal between Su and Huang.

AMD is getting their ass kicked by nvidia in the GPU market. If AMD were colluding to keep that number low, which offers NO BENEFIT to them, the shareholders would sue the shit out of Su for failing in their fiduciary duty.

The simple answer is that nvidia has priced their GPUs so sky high that AMD can get away with it. It’s arrogance on their part as they act like they are in a better position than they are. AMD GPUs are solid GPUs and perform well, no doubt but they still haven’t won over the hearts and minds of gamers in GPUs like they have in CPUs. They seem to have no interest in gaining market share. The 7900XTX should be priced at $799, the 7900XT (should be called the 7800XT) should be priced at $649 , the 7800 should be $399, the 7700 should be $299 and the 7600 should be $199.

Plz direct me toward these competent, proactive shareholders you speak of. I'm unaware of their existence.

 

[StereoVsn]

It takes at least three year to build a cutting edge fab.
TSMC is building one in Arizona right now and it's behind schedule.

Again it's not that simple.

AZ one is now scheduled to just initially open in 2025. And it's likely there will be teething issues. Intel is behind in advanced nodes.

This shit is very hard and people thinking you can just magically wish a state of the art factory, associated packaging, engineers, materials and everything else involved into existence are delusional.

The situation sucks.

 

[ToTTenTranz]

Most folks only want AMD to be aggressive on price-to-performance to force Nvidia to have a better offering so that they can.... go out and buy Nvidia

Yes, the amount of people who want to only use AMD as means to get cheaper Nvidia cards is ridiculous.
This is a problem AMD needs to solve or they won't ever leave this 15% market share limbo.

24/25. at least they can run Remnant 2 in 4k

Spoiler

Wow, AMD really is taking the lead in this game.
Is this the first non-indie UE5 title?

Seems like with TSMC being the bottleneck for these companies they would invest in creating more chip supply and not sit around waiting for TSMC to do it. Guess they learned nothing from covid.

What are you talking about? There's a bunch of new fabs being built in the US and Europe.
They don't appear instantly, they take around 5 years to start working and even then it's not at full capacity.

Samsung and Intel are 2-3 generations behind TSMC.

TSMC is the world's sole manufacturer of advanced semiconductors.

Samsung isn't 2 or 3 generations behind. At most it's 2 years behind for the state of the art process (but this might change with GAAFET). Which is still an enormous amount of time but they're definitely not 6 years away and neither is Intel.

 

[DaGwaphics]

Yes, they are trying. But not in consumer GPU's.

Nvidia is currently trying to get TSMC to make as many AI chips as possible. They are sold out the next 18 months on AI chips and have been trying to find new ways to get TSMC to increase their allocations. Every consumer GPU chip Nvidia sells is one fewer AI chip, so Nvidia is trying very hard not to prioritize GPU's.

AMD is currently trying to get TSMC to make as many CPU's as possible. They have Intel on the run in CPU's but are uncompetitive with Nvidia in GPU's. Also they are heavily demand constrained on GPU's but supply constrained on CPU's. Every GPU AMD sells is one fewer CPU, so AMD is trying very hard not to prioritize GPU's.

TSMC is the world's supplier, and bottleneck, of the most advanced semiconductors. They are also the subject of a geopolitical conflict between China and the US, with China loudly (quietly) claiming Taiwan as their territory and the US quietly (loudly) protecting Taiwan's currently uncertain political status.

What I'm saying is everyone is trying in their own way, but no one gives a fuck about your gaming video cards. Suck it up and buy a console if you can't deal with this reality.

It's one of those things where the AI product should likely be the only product on the more advanced node with GPUs remaining a node back. That way the consumer GPUs are not competing for silicone with the AI parts.

 

[Leonidas]

Yes, the amount of people who want to only use AMD as means to get cheaper Nvidia cards is ridiculous.

It's not ridiculous. For most people AMD is just not a viable option since it is lacking in RT, image reconstruction and efficiency. Nvidia wins in all those areas. If AMD didn't fall short in all these areas, they'd have more than 10-15% share.

The best thing AMD can do for 85% of the GPU market is get Nvidia to lower their prices.

If AMD wants more than 10-15% market share they have to be better than Nvidia in all the areas Nvidia is currently dominating AMD... or at least come close, and then also come in at 20% cheaper.

 

[JohnnyFootball]

It's not ridiculous. For most people AMD is just not a viable option since it is lacking in RT, image reconstruction and efficiency. Nvidia wins in all those areas. If AMD didn't fall short in all these areas, they'd have more than 10-15% share.

The best thing AMD can do for 85% of the GPU market is get Nvidia to lower their prices.

If AMD wants more than 10-15% market share they have to be better than Nvidia in all the areas Nvidia is currently dominating AMD... or at least come close, and then also come in at 20% cheaper.

AMD just needs to be cheaper. They battled Intel by going drastically cheaper and increasing the core count such that multi core tasks performed better on AMD, even though single core performance took several generations to become competitive. They benefitted drastically from Intels laziness. Unfortunately for AMD, nvidia hasn’t left the opening to compete in the GPU market that Intel left for them in the CPU market. Nvidia is competing with features. The 4000 series with DLSS and frame generation has finally made ray tracing a viable option in many games. AMD can really only compete in price. FSR is OK, but not a killer feature and Intels XeSS actually seems better. Intel is actually doing a good job in terms of features and AMD needs to be worried about getting flanked there. It’s going to be a while before Intel can compete with AMD or nvidia, but Intel is doing compelling things with features.

 

[delirium trigger]

AMD doesn't have the sexy brand appeal. They offer a better product for gamers unless you're willing to spend 1600.

 

[Leonidas]

AMD doesn't have the sexy brand appeal. They offer a better product for gamers unless you're willing to spend 1600.

How are products that use more energy, is worse at ray-tracing and is worse at image reconstruction better? Makes no sense...

AMD is only better if you don't care about ray-tracing, don't want the best image reconstruction and don't mind your GPU pulling a bit more power than Nvidia.

AMD just needs to be cheaper.

Just being cheaper isn't enough. Many RDNA2 cards were on 40% off fire sale for months. Nvidia still outsold them.

 

[JohnnyFootball]

How are products that use more energy, is worse at ray-tracing and is worse at image reconstruction better? Makes no sense...

AMD is only better if you don't care about ray-tracing, don't want the best image reconstruction and don't mind your GPU pulling a bit more power than Nvidia.

For a lot of people, that makes it better. WHen the 7900XTX is being sold for less than $900, I'd say pick it over the 4080. The 7900XTX offers better rasterization performance in many instances than the 4080 does. When doing a like for like comparison, AMD usually comes out ahead. I'd argue that many people still couldn't tell the difference between when ray tracing is on or off.

But....

But... almost nobody who has an nvidia card wouldn't take advantage of DLSS and/or FG. I have the option to game at 4K/120 on my C1 or 1440p/240 on my Samsung G65B. In both instances I always turn on DLSS when it's available. In many games neither one of those options is truly needed for great performance on my 4090, BUT it does result in less power consumption to use DLSS. I usually game on my 4K/120 OLED. My G65B, while it's great it has weird issues and my C1 just offers a better experience for gaming even if I don't more than 117 FPS.

When comparing the 4080 and 7900XTX. At their MSRP, it's tough to choose between the two, but when the 7900XTX is being sold for $800 in some instances I think that is the better card to get if the 4080 is still largely being sold only at MSRP. I can only think of instance where the 4080 has been at $1000.

However, it is pretty damn amazing how well Cyberpunk 2077 runs and looks with pathtracing turned on on my 4090. I turned it on with FG/DLSS3 and much to my surprise it was perfectly playable!

 

[Leonidas]

But... almost nobody who has an nvidia card wouldn't take advantage of DLSS and/or FG. I have the option to game at 4K/120 on my C1 or 1440p/240 on my Samsung G65B. In both instances I always turn on DLSS when it's available.

Now imagine buying a 7900 XTX and playing at 1440p, you'd be stuck with FSR2, and FSR2 is known to be worse image quality at lower resolutions... that's one of the reasons why the card is cheaper and is still not selling well, and why some people would still fork over an extra $200-$300 for the 4080.

However, it is pretty damn amazing how well Cyberpunk 2077 runs and looks with pathtracing turned on on my 4090. I turned it on with FG/DLSS3 and much to my surprise it was perfectly playable!

Agreed, Frame Generation is impressive, I used it for the first time when I played and beat Portal RTX, great technology, hoping a lot more games start using it.

 

[Kataploom]

What I'm saying is everyone is trying in their own way, but no one gives a fuck about your gaming video cards. Suck it up and buy a console if you can't deal with this reality.

The thing is: If we have to lower PC settings to consoles settings, then nobody would have optimization issues given they have any lower mid range GPU. People complain because they don't like to tick sliders... I'm which case yeah, console should suite them better lol

 

[JohnnyFootball]

Agreed, Frame Generation is impressive, I used it for the first time when I played and beat Portal RTX, great technology, hoping a lot more games start using it.

I would love to see it brought to games that are engine locked to 60 fps. Specifically Skyrim.

 

[SantaC]

Samsung and Intel are 2-3 generations behind TSMC.

TSMC is the world's sole manufacturer of advanced semiconductors.

Apple is the one buying all the chips