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AMD presents Zen 5

winjer

winjer

Member




www.techspot.com

AMD unveils Ryzen 9000 CPUs, debuts new Zen 5 architecture

It is now confirmed that AMD is jumping from the Ryzen 7000 series with Zen 4 directly to the 9000 series for Zen 5. The new CPUs,...
www.techspot.com www.techspot.com

www.guru3d.com

AMD Announces Ryzen 9950X, 9900X, 9700X, 9600X processors (ZEN5)

AMD has confirmed the upcoming launch of its Ryzen 9000 desktop CPU series, slated for release in July 2024.This next-generation series, utilizing the Zen5 architecture, has been eagerly anticipated following leaks and reports from various sources.
www.guru3d.com www.guru3d.com

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A

Allandor

Member
So not really on par with zen4d at least in games.
Btw, are those the "old" 14900k benches or the new with a much lower power delivery?
 
Leonidas

Leonidas

Member
Allandor said:
So not really on par with zen4d at least in games.
Btw, are those the "old" 14900k benches or the new with a much lower power delivery?
Click to expand...
Yeah, there is a good chance Zen5 will lose to Zen4 3D. Zen4 3D seems to be faster in at least 3 of the games tested. Not enough data to say for sure though.

They hamstrung the Intel Machine by using Intel Defaults, which caps performance of any all-core tests. They also tested with AMD optimized DDR speeds. They also tested with a 7900 XTX and muddied the water with enabling Smart Access Memory on both machines. I've seen results online where Raptor Lake even loses performance with Smart Access Memory enabled. They hid all of this in their end-notes.
 
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winjer

winjer

Member
Allandor said:
So not really on par with zen4d at least in games.
Btw, are those the "old" 14900k benches or the new with a much lower power delivery?
Click to expand...

At this point, it's possible to tell, as we only have benchmarks from AMD.
The latest HuB test with the 14900K vs 7800X3D put them at a 5% difference.
While the limited sample of games results from AMD, puts the 9950X at a 13% advantage over the 14900K.
So by extrapolating results, the 9950X is 8% faster than the 7800X3D.

But this has to be taken with a pinch of salt, as the sample of games is limited and we don't know if the bench specs that HuB and AMD used, are a match.

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winjer

winjer

Member
Leonidas said:
Only someone who didn't read (or understand) the end-notes could come to such a conclusion.

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AMD muddied the waters big time.
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How about you state the end-notes that pertain to the 14900K vs 9950X:

5 Testing as of May 2024 by AMD Performance Labs on test systems configured as follows: AMD Ryzen 9 9950X system: GIGABYTE X670E AORUS MASTER, Balanced, DDR5-6000, Radeon RX 7900 XTX, VBS=On, SAM=On, KRACKENX63 vs. similarly configured Intel Core i9-14900KS system: MSI MEG Z790 ACE MAX (MS-7D86), Balanced, DDR5-6000, Radeon RX 7900 XTX, VBS=On, SAM=On, KRAKENX63 {Profile=Intel Default} on the following applications: 3DMarkDandia, Blender, Cinebench, GeekBench, PCMark10, PassMark, ProcyonOffice, ProcyonPhotoEditing, ProcyonVideoEditing. System manufacturers may vary configurations, yielding different results. GNR-01.
Click to expand...
 
Leonidas

Leonidas

Member
peish said:
Wtf amd, where you get this? 9950x vs 7700x
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AMD official site. I posted the wrong pic by the way, updated the post with the 14900K info, they actually used 14900KS, but they power limited it, limited it to DDR5 6000, and enabled SAM, which has been shown to not really help Intel CPUs or in some cases even loses performance with Intel.

The 13% average over 6 games over the 14900K can basically go straight in the trash.

9950X vs. 7700X was for their 16% IPC test.
 
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AncientOrigin

AncientOrigin

Member
winjer said:
That 9700X with a TDP of 65W might just be the most efficient CPU of the year.
At least, until the X3D variants show up.

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Man Sony Could take the Desktop Parts for the PlayStation 6 the 12 Core worked on clocked down a bit could bit 70 watts graphics 200 Watts rest of system 30 and you would have an amazing 300 Watt Playstation 6
 
winjer

winjer

Member
Leonidas said:
AMD official site. I posted the wrong pic by the way, updated with the 14900K info, they actually used 14900KS, but they power limited it, limited it to DDR5 6000, and enabled SAM, which has been shown to not really help Intel CPUs or in some cases even loses performance with Intel.

The 13% average over 6 games over the 14900K can basically go straight in the trash.

9950X vs. 7700X was for their 16% IPC test.
Click to expand...

where did you see the info that AMD limited the power for the 14900KS.

Also, you might want to remember that the 14900KS is faster than the 14900K. 6.2 Ghz vs 6Ghz boost.

Memory above 6000 Mbps does very little for the AMD or Intel performance. Both can reach 7200Mbps. In some cases, even 8000Mbps.
But to make things even, they both have to have the same memory speed.
Even with tuned memory, we are talking about going from an average of 223 fps at 6000MBps, to 228 fps at 7200Mbps.

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Leonidas

Leonidas

Member
winjer said:
where did you see the info that AMD limited the power for the 14900KS.
Click to expand...
Intel Defaults limits 14900KS to only 253 watts.

They did some MT tests (Blender). I've seen reviews where 14900KS pulls another 120 watts in this test at stock.

winjer said:
Also, you might want to remember that the 14900KS is faster than the 14900K. 6.2 Ghz vs 6Ghz boost.
Click to expand...
That's really nice of AMD, after doing 3-4 other things which could hamstring performance.
 
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winjer

winjer

Member
Leonidas said:
Intel Defaults limits 14900KS to only 253 watts.

They did some MT tests (Blender). I've seen reviews where 14900KS pulls another 120 watts in this test at stock.

That's really nice of AMD, after doing 3-4 other things which could hamstring performance.
Click to expand...

So you have nothing to prove your claim that AMD power limited the 19400KS.
Or that they did anything to hamstring performance.

At this point you are just making stuff up.
 
winjer

winjer

Member
Leonidas said:
End-notes. Intel Defaults.

That's 253 watts. Even 14900K CPU alone pulled 283 watts in Blender in some reviews.
Click to expand...

The default that Intel made all motherboard manufactures comply with, so their CPUs would no crash and degrade.

BTW, remember when you said that your 13600K, with the new Intel power specs, was running cooler and boosting faster. So it as an advantage.
Funny how now, you say it's a disadvantage.
 
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Leonidas

Leonidas

Member
winjer said:
The default that Intel made all motherboard manufactures comply with, so their CPUs would no crash and degrade.
Click to expand...
The default that AMD selected to give themselves a 56% lead in Blender.

That's a lot less egregious than AMD using the 7900 XTX + Smart Access Memory combination on the gaming benchmarks though.

That "13% average" uplift has no meaning.
 
winjer

winjer

Member
Leonidas said:
The default that AMD selected to give themselves a 56% lead in Blender.

That's a lot less egregious than AMD using the 7900 XTX + Smart Access Memory combination on the gaming benchmarks though.

That "13% average" uplift has no meaning.
Click to expand...

Stop pretending that the Intel defaults are something that AMD choose.
There is a reason why it's called the Intel defaults. It's because it was mandated by Intel.
And the AMD CPUs are using the AMD defaults.
So they are both using the official defaults for both CPUs.

And both the 14900Ks and the 9950X have SAM/ReBar enabled.
 
MayauMiao

MayauMiao

Member
Should go for AMD Zen 5 or wait for Intel Arrowlake?

Itching to refresh my ancient PC that I could barely get games running.
 
Leonidas

Leonidas

Member
winjer said:
And both the 14900Ks and the 9950X have SAM/ReBar enabled.
Click to expand...
And why do you think AMD used it? Because it makes them look better, and it makes Intel look worse. They used to mention this stuff in the slides but nowadays they just hide it in end notes. Slimy stuff.

MayauMiao said:
Should go for AMD Zen 5 or wait for Intel Arrowlake?

Itching to refresh my ancient PC that I could barely get games running.
Click to expand...
Best to wait, Zen5 might not even beat Zen4 3D.
 
Leonidas

Leonidas

Member
winjer said:
Rebar works well in both Intel and AMD platforms. You are just making random excuses.
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It absolutely does not work the same on both platforms. The uplift is different. AMD gains more with the 7900 XTX + Smart Access Memory combination.

AMD wouldn't have set those paramaters and then hide it in the notes if this wasn't the case. It was selected to help them reach that "13% average over 6 games". If you beleive otherwise you must be really credulous.
 
winjer

winjer

Member
Leonidas said:
It absolutely does not work the same on both platforms. The uplift is different. AMD gains more with the 7900 XTX + Smart Access Memory combination.
Click to expand...

Do you have any evidence for that?

The reality is that SAM is just a marketing term for Rebar, a tech that both AMD and Intel have support, on their CPUs and GPUs.
Both, Intel and AMD always recommend turning this feature ON.
 
Silver Wattle

Silver Wattle

Gold Member
Leonidas said:
It absolutely does not work the same on both platforms. The uplift is different. AMD gains more with the 7900 XTX + Smart Access Memory combination.

AMD wouldn't have set those paramaters and then hide it in the notes if this wasn't the case. It was selected to help them reach that "13% average over 6 games". If you beleive otherwise you must be really credulous.
Click to expand...
SAM/Rebar is a requirement for Intel GPU's to function correctly, SAM/Rebar is basically the standard of all new PC set ups, to test without it would be idiotic.
 
Leonidas

Leonidas

Member
Silver Wattle said:
SAM/Rebar is a requirement for Intel GPU's to function correctly, SAM/Rebar is basically the standard of all new PC set ups, to test without it would be idiotic.
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Intel GPUs yes, but they tested with a 7900 XTX.

A GPU that basically no one uses. Every reveiw will use the fastest GPU to test gaming performance, 4090, and later, 5090 once it is released.

7900 XTX + SAM gives AMD an advantage.

There is a reason they didn't put in a 4090 with ReBAR, they wouldn't have gotten "13% over 6 games average".

Every reviewer will use a 4090, and later a 5090, cards which are faster than the 7900 XTX to better test gaming performance, and ones which won't exploit the 7900 XTX + Smart Access Memory advantage on AMD CPUs.
 
winjer

winjer

Member
Leonidas said:
Intel GPUs yes, but they tested with a 7900 XTX.

A GPU that basically no one uses. Every reveiw will use the fastest GPU to test gaming performance, 4090, and later, 5090 once it is released.

7900 XTX + SAM gives AMD an advantage.

There is a reason they didn't put in a 4090 with ReBAR, they wouldn't have gotten "13% over 6 games average".

Every reviewer will use a 4090, and later a 5090, cards which are faster than the 7900 XTX to better test gaming performance, and ones which won't exploit the 7900 XTX + Smart Access Memory advantage on AMD CPUs.
Click to expand...

Show any evidence of that. Any.
 
poppabk

poppabk

Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
Schmendrick said:
Oh no, Leonidas trying to find fault, or make some up, with anything AMD.....how suprising.
Looking forward to his next "Why NVIDIA cards are actually too cheap" or similar crap thread.......
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Are you trying to imply that Leonidas isn't completely impartial. He always evaluates the CPU's and always picks Intel because they are always the bestest and AMD always stink.
 
MayauMiao

MayauMiao

Member
Leonidas said:
And why do you think AMD used it? Because it makes them look better, and it makes Intel look worse. They used to mention this stuff in the slides but nowadays they just hide it in end notes. Slimy stuff.


Best to wait, Zen5 might not even beat Zen4 3D.
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winjer said:
There is no way to answer that question now.
At this point, we only have AMDs numbers. No independent reviews, until July.
And we have nothing about Arrow lake to compare.
Click to expand...

I guess my new PC will have to be a Christmas gift.
 
P

Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
AncientOrigin said:
Man Sony Could take the Desktop Parts for the PlayStation 6 the 12 Core worked on clocked down a bit could bit 70 watts graphics 200 Watts rest of system 30 and you would have an amazing 300 Watt Playstation 6
Click to expand...
PS6 is likely going to be based on a successor of the AI 300 series. Same thing for Steam Deck… Steam Deck 2 will go for a custom low end version of it (a successor of it maybe) and PS6 will go with a custom high end version (maybe based on the next or next-next generation so something between AI 400 and AI 500).
 
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