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AMD RX 6000 'Big Navi' GPU Event | 10/28/2020 @ 12PM EST/9AM PST/4PM UK
- Thread starter TheContact
- Start date
- Event
Rikkori
Member
It wipes the floor with Ampere. Even with RT, that's the coup de grâce.
If AMD's smart they won't even try to do a DLSS alternative, just push VRS hard because you can add that to consoles too, and since it's incompatible with DLSS, it will end up that AMD + VRS > Nvidia + DLSS.
It's gonna be a
Soulblighter31
Banned
It wipes the floor with Ampere. Even with RT, that's the coup de grâce.
If AMD's smart they won't even try to do a DLSS alternative, just push VRS hard because you can add that to consoles too, and since it's incompatible with DLSS, it will end up that AMD + VRS > Nvidia + DLSS.
It's gonna be a
You do know that even in their cherry picked games, with their unreleased cpu's, unreleased gpu's, using their smart access tech which they claim boosts the results with 6 to 10%. They showed only 4% faster than a 3080, right ? Reality could be that using regular cpu's we all have, from intel and amd, we wont have their results. We wont have smart access. And using a different selection of games could show ampere on top. And they havent showed either dlss like feature, nor raytracing. You must have a wildly different concept of what "wiping the floor" means than everyone else does.
JohnnyFootball
GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
The Radeon GPUs look outstanding, but hopefully the drivers will be stable. I know AMD has a rep for poor drivers, they usually have been good about fixing issues. It's also very inaccurate to assume that nvidia hasn't had driver issues.
Seeing this makes me hate nvidia more. As nvidia has given AMD an excuse to charge crazy prices for these.
Seeing this makes me hate nvidia more. As nvidia has given AMD an excuse to charge crazy prices for these.
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mitchman
Gold Member
USD $80 above the 3070 MSRP (which is likely going to go up in shops due to demand) for twice the VMEM (16 GB) and higher performance seems reasonable.
JohnnyFootball
GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
For me, it shows a confidence in their product.
But I think many are disappointed as many were hoping for 3070 level performance under $400. Not that that is fair.
Kenpachii
Member
Most people will not use 5000 series cpu no matter if you like it or not. Anybody that recently upgraded towards a 3000 / 9000 or 10000 series CPU which are a lot of people will probably not spend much time on it. Sure u got your enthusiast people that upgrade there cpu's every gen because reasons. But most people won't. That's just simple a thing u don't seem to understand.
Locking performance of a GPU towards a certain architecture to upsell the product and then advertise with that performance vs a competitor that does not require another motherboard + CPU is ridiculous in my view to even talk about. U can disagree with it all you want.
It's like nvidia locking DLSS into only intel cpu's then advertise with it vs AMD that does not. ( as example )
The main issue i see on tech forums is that people are upset about the prices of there next gpu's being nvidia like. People hoped for a more 5000 series price with a uplift in performance that puts it in the ballpark of 3000 series.
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AquaticSquirrel
Member
I get where you are coming from, but the 6800XT was shown at the reveal event without SAM or Rage Mode turned on.
Given the huge uplift that these Ryzen 5000 CPUs bring in performance and also gaining the "performance crown" in gaming is a really huge thing and very important to a lot of people. I think the CPUs are going to sell like crazy. Having said that I do wish that SAM worked on older motherboards too, I have an X470 board with a Ryzen 2600X, upgrading to a 5000 series CPU would be a huge uplift for me and will work on my board with a BIOS update. I just wish SAM was also supported, who knows maybe with an update in the future?
Even though SAM is a pretty amazing feature, there were some titles with little to no performance uplift, while Forza was an outlier with 11% uplift, the majority of games were somewhere around 5-6% uplift, which while amazing to get for "free" if you have 5000cpu/500 mobo, it is not like the performance was somehow terrible without it. These cards will still perform really well without SAM, SAM is just the cherry on top.
But yeah when things are misleading I dislike marketing BS no matter who it comes from. Wait for real benchmarks.
Having said that, AMD is being pretty open in showing how they achieved these numbers and as I have said multiple times, their numbers "mostly" are closer to reality than Nvidia's on average.
BrettWeir
Member
I'm going to be one of those people. Upgrading from 8600K and 1070TI to 5900X and 6800XT on a B550. Really looking forward to the upgrade.
Rickyiez
Member
done a quick SOTR raytraced shadows bench maxed at 4k on my rtx3080:
vs.
rx 6800 (presumably)
Your RT shadow is in ultra, while the 6800 screenshot say 高 which is "High". Maybe you can try another shot with High RT
Soulblighter31
Banned
martino
Member
even RTX2xxx support vrs tier 2 so i don't understand why vrs would benefit only amd cardIt wipes the floor with Ampere. Even with RT, that's the coup de grâce.
If AMD's smart they won't even try to do a DLSS alternative, just push VRS hard because you can add that to consoles too, and since it's incompatible with DLSS, it will end up that AMD + VRS > Nvidia + DLSS.
It's gonna be a
could you explain ?
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Rickyiez
Member
Thanks , 6800xt should yield similar results to 3080 it seems .
Rikkori
Member
Yes, Turing and above have VRS support but the crucial part is that you can't combine VRS with DLSS, so you have to choose between the two. In that case the advantage in performance using DLSS offers will be closer to 10-15%, and the AMD cards will already be 10-15% faster than Ampere ones while also having more vram etc. Essentially it nullifies any software advantage Nvidia has in gaming.
The best part about VRS is that all consoles will have it so it's easier to justify adding that to your game than DLSS (because ofc consoles can't do DLSS). The really light form of VRS offers basically no visible image quality hit for 10% performance gain. You can also get higher performance but then the loss starts becoming noticeable.
I've actually said this since Turing got launched, VRS is the future for games, not DLSS.
JohnnyFootball
GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
Rastuerization performance is what matters first and foremost. If the Big Navi GPUs offered better rastuerization performance, but considerably worse RT performance to most people it would be a better card than nvidias card. Even with the 30 series card, the RT penalty is still very stiff.
Don't get me wrong, ray tracing is nice and has definitely provided some benefits in games (Metro Exodus being the best from what I have seen), but in order for it to provide a meaningful visual benefit over rast the performance is tanked.
Don't get me wrong, ray tracing is nice and has definitely provided some benefits in games (Metro Exodus being the best from what I have seen), but in order for it to provide a meaningful visual benefit over rast the performance is tanked.
martino
Member
ok it's clear to me now !
SantaC
Member
Your posts are full of bullshit. First of all ryzen 5000 series are hyped as hell and plenty of people will upgrade.
Malakhov
Banned
I will upgrade my r5 3600 with zen3. Why? Because I can easily sell my 3600, mobo, ram and 1660 super on second hand market. That way I've never paid full price for an upgrade.
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Armorian
Banned
This doesn't look like 15% to me:
Native (with RT)
DLSS (with RT)
CAS does nothing in this game
VRS is not comparable to DLSS in any way, both in how it works and performance gains.
Bolivar687
Banned
I never had any problems with Radeon drivers from 2014-2017, but I definitely heard about issues on GeForce. I think there was just that one 5700XT issue for a little while that the green warriors held up to prove they were right all along.
DemonCleaner
Member
which setting are screen space contact shadows
Over what time period? It is not as if SAM is just going to stop working in a year's time. And for all we know it will be supported with the 6000 series of CPUs, also. For all we know it will be supported for the whole generation.
We don't know what role PCIe 4, or Zen 3's unified cache has in enabling SAM's performance improvements.
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Rikkori
Member
I'm talking about DLSS Quality mode. Any lower than that and we're going into very subjective territory of how close does 1080p really look to 4K (ie performance mode), which is dumb. And it's 15% because I'm subtracting the boost VRS gives AMD, so that's what's left. When we're talking DLSS & RT performance you have to be very careful because DLSS does things in the background which results in gimped RT-ing, so again - not apples to apples (see 2nd image).
Armorian
Banned
I'm talking about DLSS Quality mode. Any lower than that and we're going into very subjective territory of how close does 1080p really look to 4K (ie performance mode), which is dumb. And it's 15% because I'm subtracting the boost VRS gives AMD, so that's what's left. When we're talking DLSS & RT performance you have to be very careful because DLSS does things in the background which results in gimped RT-ing, so again - not apples to apples (see 2nd image).
Watchdogs is CPU limited so DLSS doesn't do much to performance that's true. My SS from Ghostrunner is from QUALITY DLSS. And yes, RT resolution is based by ingame resolution so native res that DLSS works with, it will look worse obviously.
Rikkori
Member
Actually the benchmark in WD:L isn't CPU limited, which is how they tested. It's in the open world where CPU limits get hit quick. F1 2020, still that ballpark (30% here at most). Keep in mind I don't add RT results for a reason, like I've said, if they tweak the RT to be a much lower setting behind the scene including gimping rays shot, then that's not apples to apples - that's also something available to AMD if they want the worse effects. At that point you can no longer compare DLSS to native, because you're too far away from native quality, so then you have to compare to lower res.
notseqi
Member
I did but I didn't bring it up. Charging glee for real world benchmarks.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
Because they are a great team and do good work that is very thorough.
thelastword
Banned
I remember when I had an Nvidia GPU, drivers used to crash all the time, I got many freezes and BSODS. There was a year when pretty much all Nvidia drivers had to follow up with a hotfix, I was constantly on NV forums reading what these issues were about. People are pretending that NV drivers are the gravy train...I've had an AMD GPU for years now and have never had an issue, people use the whole 5700XT issues which did not even affect everybody as a general glove, when that was sorted long ago and generally performance in games from 5700XT's launch to now has improved massively. The green team has always tried to blame drivers for not buying or supporting AMD, but driver issues and more prevalent on NV cards by a whopping huge margin....
notseqi
Member
It happens on both but people are probably harping on the <2010-era when there were some significant driver problems. I'm not against saying that my preferred GFX-cards come from AMD and drivers where shit for some time but the current drivers haven't given me any grief so far, friends are telling me that pre-2019 it had been fine for a very long time.
notseqi
Member
We have no info as of yet, the generally considered to be mid-range cards are not out yet, and we don't have official benches yet.
Waiting for it and preordering, can return within 14days though.
assurdum
Banned
Ah so they have just showed the cards for the enthusiast. Ok. I haven't followed the event.
notseqi
Member
While I love AMD and I would wish for the benches to be accurate we don't know yet. Wait for the 18th of Novembre which is the release date or trustworthy sources before that.
The cheapest talked about card looks to be on par for some 3080 use-cases but I don't remember which it was.
As I said, wait for benches.
Based on the leaks, Navi 22 will have 40 CUs, and is expected early next year. AIB clocks for Navi 21 (6800 series that launching soon) are rumoured to be very high, though.
rnlval
Member
I would upgrade since I have ASUS ROG Strix X570 motherboard and R9-3900X. Target: R9-5900X
Zen 3 has significant improvements with AVX processing.
llien
Member
They are full of shit.
As for thorough reviews, there is anandtech, or if one prefers watching videos, Hardware Unboxed, among others, neither of which were caught with shit DF was caught with.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
llien
Member
Oh boy...
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
Truly compelling case you have there.
CuNi
Member
Nah not return. Sell it localy to someone for reasonable bit more. Nothing crazy. Only if 1080p will be massively different. If not then I'll stick with RTX because afaik Shadowplay and NVENC are still somewhat more optimized and I'm casually recording and streaming my gameplay so I could swallow 3-4% FPS diff for NVENC etc. Still great to see AMD back in the game!
If supply keeps being the way it is, yes. Well, maybe. Depends on what you have in mind. I'm not looking to scalp and make a big buck out of it. If I decide to do it, I'd probably sell it for around current price, which is still currently around 200+€ more than what I have payed for it so that's already a big enough win for me.
Btw sorry to you two for the late post, I was moving and only now got a PC back and running again!
BluRayHiDef
Banned
What are you talking about? It trades blows with Ampere (with SAM and Rage Mode) and leaked benchmarks indicate that it has worse ray tracing performance.
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notseqi
Member
Should be sweet if you can sell it for a fair bit more.
Insane Metal
Gold Member
We also have conflicting info on RT performance, can't wait to see those. On a raster perspective those AMD cards are VERY good.DF's misleading "super early preview" of Ampere was discussed several times on this forum.
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cucuchu
Member
It wipes the floor with Ampere. Even with RT, that's the coup de grâce.
If AMD's smart they won't even try to do a DLSS alternative, just push VRS hard because you can add that to consoles too, and since it's incompatible with DLSS, it will end up that AMD + VRS > Nvidia + DLSS.
It's gonna be a
Since when does trade blows mean "wipe the floor" with someone? You are either trolling or just living in a dream reality.
VRS the future??? That future would of come into fruition a while ago if it were true. AMD is developing something to combat DLSS because they know they need to or else they would not have asked everyone to please wait until 2021 to see what they have. I have a feeling it will be competitve with DLSS.
Its good to see AMD competitive but its hyperbolic misinformation like this shit which leads to disappointment when people take it seriously.
ScaryBrandon
Banned
I also agree that it "wipes the floor" since its slightly faster, cheaper, consumes less power, overclocks better and has 60% to 100% more Vram. What more could you possibly want?
BluRayHiDef
Banned
Where's your proof that it overclocks better?
llien
Member
Microsoft's DirectML upscling vs bilinear:
devblogs.microsoft.com
Gaming with Windows ML - DirectX Developer Blog
Neural Networks Will Revolutionize Gaming Earlier this month, Microsoft announced the availability of Windows Machine Learning. We mentioned the wide-ranging applications of WinML on areas as diverse as security, productivity, and the internet of things. We even showed how WinML can be used to...
devblogs.microsoft.com
DLSS 2 is a glorified TAA => blurry, detail wiping transformation a very far cry from what insane people claim it to be.