Support NeoGAF

[DonJuanSchlong]

It's Lisa Su account, that's why

I seriously wonder sometimes. There's no way someone could properly be so obtuse/blind, unless they were peddling products or something. Maybe he has all of us on ignore when we call him out on every thread?

 

[Malakhov]

Like in what world does a 3080 run with raytracing at 1440p metro exodus at 100 fps without dlss. it doesn't even hold 60 fps with a 3080 without dlss.

These benchmarks are b.s, I get 60-70fps in highest settings in 4k extreme setting, highest Rtx and dlss with a 3080

113fps? Yeah right

 

[llien]

This is coming from someone that looked at a DLSS screenshot from literally the first implementation and formed an unshakable opinion that completely ignores the fact that current DLSS is fantastic, and in some cases, quite literally better than native resolution.

Oh you bloody clowns, how many times do you need to repeat that stupid lie?
Implementations by the first (true NN) DLSS have NEVER BEEN CONSIDERED on this forum, not even BLOODY ONCE.

DLSS 2.0, which is TAA derivative with some NN sprinkled over, VERY CLEARLY exposes ALL THE WEAKNESESS of TAA.

This has been freaking DEMONSTRATED on this very forum, when some naive soul has posted "gotcha" screenshots of with DLSS upscaling / without and to his displeas it was very quickly and clearly identified what was what.

Because that thing blurs and loses details as TAA.

It is far from useless (neither TAA is), but it's not even remotely as good to warrant poodle happiness expressed.

 

[llien]

Im wondering why do you keep going with this demonstrably false narative. Any sane person would be happy a technique that improves image quality while boosting performance exists. You were presented with countless proof from every angle, you just close your eyes and keep going with the same thing.

You are full of shit.
A number of examples with very clear and blatant degradation has been demonstrated on this very forum.
A "real life test" of "can you guess which one is DLSS 2 upscaled" have been done as well.

"Performance boost" from running something at lower resolution is a brain dead argument.

Nobody has questioned usefulness of TAA derivative upscaling, but people were kindly asked to stop the BS of claiming the upscaled resolution or pretending it's better than it is.

 

[ZywyPL]

"Performance boost" from running something at lower resolution is a brain dead argument.

It's not when the end result looks like actually higher resolution, which is the part you purposely keep ignoring, hence no one here takes you seriously.

 

[llien]

It's not when the end result looks like actually higher resolution, which is the part you purposely keep ignoring, hence no one here takes you seriously.

It has been demonstrated multiple times, that this is a lie, including by "real life" test of two screenshots.
You need to do some shit (like worse TAA implementation) to the "native" for it to look worse.

 

[GHG]

The embargo is the same time as the cards going on sale?

That's a load of fuckery if ever I heard it.

 

[ZywyPL]

It has been demonstrated multiple times, that this is a lie, including by "real life" test of two screenshots.
You need to do some shit (like worse TAA implementation) to the "native" for it to look worse.

Native image, by it's nature, will always have aliasing and shimmering, so naturally you need an AA. So it's always either or, and all mentally sane people prefer the solution which outcome is the sharper image with better performance on top. Because no one really cares about building up some ideologies, what it is and what it isn't, that doesn't really mean anything in the real-life scenario/applications.

 

[regawdless]

The embargo is the same time as the cards going on sale?

That's a load of fuckery if ever I heard it.

This.

Where are the real life benchmarks?

 

[GHG]

This.

Where are the real life benchmarks?

It annoys me how these companies expect you to buy blind, which is essentially what you will have to do to get your hands on one of the cards today.

The internet + hype makes it far too easy for these companies to sell out of initial runs of products. They know exactly what they are doing.

 

[regawdless]

It annoys me how these companies expect you to buy blind, which is essentially what you will have to do to get your hands on one of the cards today.

The internet + hype makes it far too easy for these companies to sell out of initial runs of products. They know exactly what they are doing.

Especially when you consider AMDs GPU history of overhyping their cards. We should be sceptical and the missing benchmarks don't help.
Doesn't mean that the cards won't perform very well. We just don't know yet.

 

[Md Ray]

The embargo is the same time as the cards going on sale?

That's a load of fuckery if ever I heard it.

I think it shows they aren't confident with their product, especially in the RT department.

 

[SantaC]

The embargo is the same time as the cards going on sale?

That's a load of fuckery if ever I heard it.

Welcome to industry standard since ever? How about those demon's souls reviews going live same time as release.

Are you guys new to the videogame industry?

 

[SantaC]

I agree with llien, so many nvidia trolls in here. Praising some shitty DLSS implementation that doesnt even support every game as next coming of jesus. Raw native performance is always the best.

But now when AMD catched up in Rasterisation performance i guess the narrative changed to something else.

First it was, hahaha big navi wouldnt even outperform 2080ti, and now when that isnt true all sorts of excuses are being made.

 

[evanft]

I swear to god AMD fans act like they're some sort of oppressed minority just because they bought the product in the red box.

 

[SantaC]

I swear to god AMD fans act like they're some sort of oppressed minority just because they bought the product in the red box.

I would say quite the opposite if you read my post above yours as the nvidia fanboys goalposts has moved all the time.

 

[Md Ray]

I agree with llien, so many nvidia trolls in here. Praising some shitty DLSS implementation that doesnt even support every game as next coming of jesus. Raw native performance is always the best.

But now when AMD catched up in Rasterisation performance i guess the narrative changed to something else.

First it was, hahaha big navi wouldnt even outperform 2080ti, and now when that isnt true all sorts of excuses are being made.

I'm neutral here who wants AMD to be competitive against NVIDIA, but you can't deny DLSS is a fantastic technique to get massive perf out of your GPU at very little/to no impact to the image quality.

 

[sxodan]

You are full of shit.
A number of examples with very clear and blatant degradation has been demonstrated on this very forum.
A "real life test" of "can you guess which one is DLSS 2 upscaled" have been done as well.

"Performance boost" from running something at lower resolution is a brain dead argument.

Nobody has questioned usefulness of TAA derivative upscaling, but people were kindly asked to stop the BS of claiming the upscaled resolution or pretending it's better than it is.

THIS. Fucking hell, when will people stop with this shit? It's not looking better than native and it doesn't make any sense to even claim that.

 

[amc]

It may be a reconstruction technique gut it's a damn fucking amazing one. One which is in another league to any other similar tech.

Machine learning is a fluid technology that improves going forward, anyone who shouts it down needs to look into how well it can perform, yes native is preferable but if we want stuff like RT and 4K with all the trimmings at high frame rates then image reconstruction is going to be extremely important for a good while yet.

To treat DLSS in the same way as checkerboarding or VRS would be disingenuous. It's a genuine game changer and is only going to get better.

AMD needs and answer, maybe Direct ML will be good, doubt it could ever better dedicated AI cores on the silicon though.

 

[AquaticSquirrel]

I'm not sure why this is now an Nvidia DLSS thread, can the people who want to discuss the pros and cons for DLSS do so in a different thread please? We have plenty of them for that, thanks!

As for the topic at hand, I would have preferred that the review embargo was a day of two ahead of release. I don't think they are hiding anything to try to get more sales, that would be silly as they will be supply limited in their initial batches and the reviews will come out today anyway.

I don't really like this new trend of embargo until release day, regardless of whether it is a game, film, TV show, phone, console or GPU. Having said that it seems to mostly be the new the standard across large swaths of the industry, which I dislike.

Regarding RT performance, it is nice that we finally have some figures from AMD, even if they are only at 1440p. Later today we should get a full comparison with RT enabled in benchmarks on the same machine/settings vs Ampere by independent reviewers at 1440p/4K.

So far it looks like what most of the rumours suggested, better than Turing/2080ti but not as good as Ampere (3080). Looks like that Port Royal benchmark leak from earlier in the year was the closest to reality with around a 20% delta at hybrid rendering. Of course that % figure could shrink or grow a little depending on the results from independent reviewers.

It is a pity AMD's FidelityFX Super Resolution tech is not ready for reviews, would have been nice to see how it works, the general quality and the performance with it enabled, would have been nice to see comparisons vs DLSS enabled for Nvidia cards but hopefully we won't be waiting too long for it to release.

 

[Soulblighter31]

THIS. Fucking hell, when will people stop with this shit? It's not looking better than native and it doesn't make any sense to even claim that.

I guess we should message digital foundry, gamers nexus and every tech channel and wesbite in the known world and dirrect them to neogaf, where a handfull of nobodies cracked the code and dlss is some shitty stuff. So they can be educated. I also guess we're all blind when we're looking at infinite examples side by side where dlss provides additional details and clarity. A mouthbreader like illien solved the riddle i guess, huh ?

 

[Rickyiez]

Nvidia embargo was 24 hours before release, so it's not as bad as this

 

[amc]

I'm not sure why this is now an Nvidia DLSS thread, can the people who want to discuss the pros and cons for DLSS do so in a different thread please? We have plenty of them for that, thanks!

As for the topic at hand, I would have preferred that the review embargo was a day of two ahead of release. I don't think they are hiding anything to try to get more sales, that would be silly as they will be supply limited in their initial batches and the reviews will come out today anyway.

I don't really like this new trend of embargo until release day, regardless of whether it is a game, film, TV show, phone, console or GPU. Having said that it seems to mostly be the new the standard across large swaths of the industry, which I dislike.

Regarding RT performance, it is nice that we finally have some figures from AMD, even if they are only at 1440p. Later today we should get a full comparison with RT enabled in benchmarks on the same machine/settings vs Ampere by independent reviewers at 1440p/4K.

So far it looks like what most of the rumours suggested, better than Turing/2080ti but not as good as Ampere (3080). Looks like that Port Royal benchmark leak from earlier in the year was the closest to reality with around a 20% delta at hybrid rendering. Of course that % figure could shrink or grow a little depending on the results from independent reviewers.

It is a pity AMD's FidelityFX Super Resolution tech is not ready for reviews, would have been nice to see how it works, the general quality and the performance with it enabled, would have been nice to see comparisons vs DLSS enabled for Nvidia cards but hopefully we won't be waiting too long for it to release.

Maybe it's because someone is talking shit about DLSS in the thread. If the above post is aimed at me then fuck no, you the police?, I'll post what I think is relevant wherever I think it's relevant.

Don't want people to talk about something then start by asking the fool who starts the fud.

No one needs you to say what gets posted so don't bother getting all high.

 

[Coulomb_Barrier]

The thing that has fooled people about DLSS 2.0, which is great btw, is in STILL screenshots, it does indeed look very sharp. But in motion, which is nearly all that matters, it is far less impressive with some weird stuff going on with IQ. I don't know why Digital Foundry or the other tech sites have been less vocal on this, which is super important caveat to the tech at this stage.

 

[AquaticSquirrel]

Maybe it's because someone is talking shit about DLSS in the thread. If the above post is aimed at me then fuck no, you the police?, I'll post what I think is relevant wherever I think it's relevant.

Don't want people to talk about something then start by asking the fool who starts the fud.

No one needs you to say what gets posted so don't bother getting all high.

Jesus, chill out man. I wasn't aiming my post at anyone specific, more just mentioning we are getting off topic on something that has been discussed to death in many, many, many threads, including some threads designed specifically for that.

I'm not trying to tell anyone what to do or any nonsense like that, just suggesting that we try to keep the thread from being derailed by bickering about a long discussed argument that can be better hashed out in multiple other threads that actually fit the topic.

Given how you dialed up to 11 out of nowhere I'm going to assume you take this all very seriously, we are all enthusiasts but they are just GPUs in the end, a great luxury but nothing life changing.

 

[MadYarpen]

what time does the embargo lift? I thought it was today morning (in EU)?

 

[amc]

Jesus, chill out man. I wasn't aiming my post at anyone specific, more just mentioning we are getting off topic on something that has been discussed to death in many, many, many threads, including some threads designed specifically for that.

I'm not trying to tell anyone what to do or any nonsense like that, just suggesting that we try to keep the thread from being derailed by bickering about a long discussed argument that can be better hashed out in multiple other threads that actually fit the topic.

Given how you dialed up to 11 out of nowhere I'm going to assume you take this all very seriously, we are all enthusiasts but they are just GPUs in the end, a great luxury but nothing life changing.

No, just that you posted straight after my post. I love games and whatever tech gets us to the best results, be that AMD, Nvidia, Sony, Nintendo yada yada.

I just read the last few pages and read some crazy posts talking bollocks about a very decent tech, a tech that's helped me play some brilliant games with great settings. Just got pissed at reading one guys fud. You're right though, did zoom off with my response, apologies.

I hope AMD brings the goods, it's only good for all gamers.

 

[spyshagg]

Unverified. Make of these what you will.

 

[llien]

...sharper image...

It has been demonstrated many times, that it actually blurs things, as you would have expected from TAA derivative.
But you still had to repeat that lie.

Here is a shot of entire screen being blurred, evil reviewer just dared quickly moving the mouse.

Spoiler: pic

Why this month’s PC port of Death Stranding is the definitive version [Updated]

A major embargo is up, so we've added comparison images for anti-aliasing methods.

arstechnica.com

Unverified. Make of these what you will.

When does embargo lift?

 

[AquaticSquirrel]

Unverified. Make of these what you will.

Interesting, is this just compiling AMD's official benchmark data from their site and putting it into a chart?

Or is this supposed to be from an independent benchmark? One of the reasons I ask is because the 6900XT has not been sent out to reviewers yet so I was curious what the source for this was.

what time does the embargo lift? I thought it was today morning (in EU)?

I've heard 3pm CET (Central European Time). Which is an hour ahead of GMT so 2pm my time.

 

[Ascend]

Unverified. Make of these what you will.

They are most likely real.

 

[llien]

I can't see imgur links now, sorry if it has been posted, "leaked" AMD slide:

TechPowerUp

And if you are wondering, this is around 2080Ti/3070.

- BF5, 1440p Ultra, DXR Ultra: 73.7 fps (vs 70) - https://www.techpowerup.com/review/battlefield-v-tides-of-war-rtx-dxr-raytracing/3.html
- CoD:MW 1440p Max, DXR On: 98.4 fps (vs 95) - https://www.pcgameshardware.de/Call...tracing-Test-Release-Anforderungen-1335580/2/
- Metro, 1440p Ultra, DXR Ultra: 66.9 fps (vs 67) - https://www.techpowerup.com/review/metro-exodus-benchmark-performance-test/6.html
- SoTR, 1440p Ultra, DXR Ultra: 87 fps (vs 82) - https://www.techpowerup.com/review/shadow-of-the-tomb-raider-rtx-dlss/4.html

 

[Rikkori]

Unverified. Make of these what you will.

Those Forza numbers.... oh lawdy jeeeesus

edit: also found this

 

[Ascend]

We'll get reviews soon, but I'll post this anyway;

 

[Dr.D00p]

We'll get reviews soon, but I'll post this anyway;

Wish you wouldn't, can't stand the pasty faced mother fucker.

 

[Ascend]

Wish you wouldn't, can't stand the pasty faced mother fucker.

He has had the most accurate leaks regarding RDNA2, so... Yeah...

 

[ZywyPL]

Unverified. Make of these what you will.

Looks VERY promising if true. Although there is no context whether RT/DLSS are on or off on those charts :/ Still - HUGE progress from AMD.

 

[Dr.D00p]

He has had the most accurate leaks regarding RDNA2, so... Yeah...

You're him, aren't you? C'mon admit it, using NG to boost your videos...go out and get some Vitamin C & D, FFS, you look ill....

 

[AquaticSquirrel]

Looks VERY promising if true. Although there is no context whether RT/DLSS are on or off on those charts :/ Still - HUGE progress from AMD.

Those are definitely without RT or DLSS turned on. To be honest I think those charts are simply the numbers from AMD's official benchmarks on their site but compiled into a nice chart. I could be wrong, and I'm too lazy to check but all the games shown are the games AMD benchmarked on their site and reviewers don't have access to a 6900XT yet so...

 

[Senua]

You're him, aren't you? C'mon admit it, using NG to boost your videos...go out and get some Vitamin C & D, FFS, you look ill....

Bro going outside in Britain will just get you wetter than a dirty sewer atm

 

[TriSuit666]

what time does the embargo lift? I thought it was today morning (in EU)?

The eTechnix fella has a live stream starting at 1.30pm BST, which if it follows for the 3070 stream he did, he'll have 20-30 minutes of stream crapping out before chatting about how he can't actually show anything till 2.00pm.

 

[Dr.D00p]

I have to say, this whole business of no reviews until the cards are released for sale, is a fucking diabolical liberty.

 

[AquaticSquirrel]

I have to say, this whole business of no reviews until the cards are released for sale, is a fucking diabolical liberty.

While I agree it is a practice I dislike, it is not like they are trying to trick people into buying millions of cards before the truth is revealed. The cards will be massively supply limited at launch and will sell out no matter what.

We will have reviews in a little over an hour so all will be revealed then.

 

[Ascend]

I have to say, this whole business of no reviews until the cards are released for sale, is a fucking diabolical liberty.

I agree, and, it's one of the reasons I don't buy any hardware at launch, and barely any games at launch. Patience is a virtue.

 

[regawdless]

Benchmarks are going to be so messy. Too many variables. Raytracing on and off, new AMD CPU vs old AMD/Intel, so many different games. Then people will start "But Nvidia has DLSS!" Etc.

 

[Dr.D00p]

I am really tempted to get a 6800XT just for the hell of it, Not had a Radeon card since the X850 XT, But I just can't bring myself to leave behind all the added driver level extras that come with Nvidia cards.

TBH, the only reason I want these AMD cards to be so good is in the hope it makes Nvidia respond with an improved 3080.

 

[mansoor1980]

when is the 6700 series going to release?

 

[AquaticSquirrel]

I am really tempted to get a 6800XT just for the hell of it, Not had a Radeon card since the X850 XT, But I just can't bring myself to leave behind all the added driver level extras that come with Nvidia cards.

TBH, the only reason I want these AMD cards to be so good is in the hope it makes Nvidia respond with an improved 3080.

Added driver level extras such as....? I'm honestly curious. If you mean the CUDA stuff for productivity performance then yeah I agree that is a huge advantage Nvidia has at the moment in Blender etc..

Regarding an improved 3080, rumours suggest you are going to get it. Supposedly in January a 3080ti with just a hair under 3090 performance and 20GB RAM. Likely $1000-$1200 range to compete with 6900XT, because 6900XT makes the 3090 look completely stupid at $1500.

 

[AquaticSquirrel]

when is the 6700 series going to release?

Next year sometime, presumably Q1 of 2021.

 

[Ascend]

all the added driver level extras that come with Nvidia cards.

Which are those exactly, because as far as I know, AMD supports the majority of features that nVidia has...

For the ones that understand German, this will start in about an hour from the time of posting;