Fake
Member
I do. If Game Cube can do 60fps no excuses for Nintendo Switch.
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An Overview Trailer for Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door has been released
I do. If Game Cube can do 60fps no excuses for Nintendo Switch.
Dr. Wilkinson
Member
I agree with you. And yet at the same time I’m currently replaying Paper Mario on N64 and that game barely hits 30 most of the time, and the game is as delightful as it was 23 years ago.
So the point about a turn-based JRPG vs 60fps is well taken.
And, this has been discussed to death already by now, but in the context of how TTYD was made 20 years ago on GameCube, it made sense why it was 60 fps. Vs this remake is clearly using the Color Splash engine from Wii U, which was 30 fps, and Switch isn’t much more powerful than Wii U, especially in portable mode. So early on in the development process, the decision was clearly made to prioritize graphics vs go for 60fps. Graphics were not a priority for TTYD on GameCube. They were coming off N64 and were given this amazing new next-gen console with GameCube where compared to what they had been working with, the sky was the limit. And back then, Paper Mario was not made to display state-of-the-art graphics. It was all about low-poly environments and 2D pixel sprites. They had all the headroom in the world to basically throw whatever they could on the screen without any worry about FPS.
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JimboJones
Member
As far as I know the other Switch and WiiU paper mario games where 30fps so it was probably either downgrade the visuals to basically look like an emulated GC game or bring it up the visuals to the standards of the other modern Paper Mario games, I guess they went for the latter.
Still a little disappointing but it is what it is I guess.
Still a little disappointing but it is what it is I guess.
Dr. Wilkinson
Member
Get out of here with your grounded, practical realness.
Dr. Wilkinson
Member
Everything signals to this being an extremely faithful remake like carefully crafted so as to be as similar to the original as possible, even though it’s obviously made with a completely different engine.
I have noticed a few balance changes, though that have taken place. The first one is the poison mushroom bingo. If you get all three poison mushrooms in the battle on the original, you would lose half of your health, and in this remake you only lose a third of it. in a couple of gameplay videos in the chapter 1 area and he’s already got 15 HP before he’s even gone to the first mini dungeon, which doesn’t really make sense that early on in the game. You only would’ve had the chance to have four or five battles it’s highly unlikely you’d already be at level two that would require 100 star points. I’m sure there have been other minor changes too but these are just the first two I’ve noticed in case anyone expecting. Seeing as regular Goomba’s only give you like three star points if you’re under-leveled.
So if anyone is expecting this game to be identical as far as the balance goes… it’s not.
I have noticed a few balance changes, though that have taken place. The first one is the poison mushroom bingo. If you get all three poison mushrooms in the battle on the original, you would lose half of your health, and in this remake you only lose a third of it. in a couple of gameplay videos in the chapter 1 area and he’s already got 15 HP before he’s even gone to the first mini dungeon, which doesn’t really make sense that early on in the game. You only would’ve had the chance to have four or five battles it’s highly unlikely you’d already be at level two that would require 100 star points. I’m sure there have been other minor changes too but these are just the first two I’ve noticed in case anyone expecting. Seeing as regular Goomba’s only give you like three star points if you’re under-leveled.
So if anyone is expecting this game to be identical as far as the balance goes… it’s not.
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Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Seriously? Is the bar for Nintendo this low? We are saying that “this is Nintendo first party work and they are best of the best crafting the best they could” and “nope, cannot be done… higher resolution and a bit shinier coat of paint can only be done if you halve the framerate of the original in half”.
:/…
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Are you being facetious here?
First of all, Nintendo could use whatever engine they want, it is not the consumer’s responsibility to care too much about what constraints a moderately cash rich company with little to no debt does with their engine choices.
Second of all, Switch even in undocked mode has shown to be generally faster and more efficient than the Wii U (seen by other conversions like DKC TF) on both CPU and GPU fronts (GPU can peak at 460 GFLOPS with a much more modern and efficient architecture and CPU wise there is still a gap compared to the heterogeneous triple CPU cores in Espresso which is still based on Wii’s old PowerPC CPU design). They did not want to target 60 FPS to make it the best remake they could do, they decided it was not worth the cost and that fans would accept it anyways, and so they did not achieve it, fine.
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Ulysses 31
Member
30 fps and some censorship. Guess I'll stick the GameCube version played with enhancements from USB Loader GX and RetroTink 4K.
TintoConCasera
I bought a sex doll, but I keep it inflated 100% of the time and use it like a regular wife
lol @ 30fps, learn to optimize you sickos.
Besides that, I'll never understand this kind of remake, being basically the same game while the original is still perfectly playable.
Besides that, I'll never understand this kind of remake, being basically the same game while the original is still perfectly playable.
Dr. Wilkinson
Member
What I'm saying is, they clearly made the decision early on to prioritize graphics & presentation vs a "basic Betty" presentation and visuals to get that FPS up to a locked 60. And because this game was obviously made in the Color Splash & Origami King engine, it shouldn't really come as a surprise. When TTYD was made, in the context of 2004, the N64 Paper Mario team was given this massive leap in horsepower with the GameCube, and at the time Paper Mario games were not made to have beautiful visual as they are nowadays, so when they built TTYD they had all this headroom to throw as much on the screen as possible. Since they made Paper Mario games *back in those days* with very low-poly environments and otherwise nothing but 2D pixel sprites.
So what I'm saying is, it shouldn't be surprising. But yes, it's a bummer.
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Dr. Wilkinson
Member
It's not an RPG. So depends if you prefer your Paper Marios to be straight JRPGs like 1 & 2, or not.
. It was made to be like Sticker Star & Color Splash, which are fun enough basic adventure games with pretty graphics and a turn-based combat system that strips out all standard RPG features.
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Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
They could and should have done both. Unless you believe Nintendo's in house teams cannot push the HW beyond what they did. Why are we putting such a low bar on one side for them and on the other side you do make the argument that they did the best they could as you expect a first party team to do? Switch in undocked mode can still run laps around the Wii U, assuming that they did not think it was worth investing in a new or more upgraded engine... but then again, we are making excuses on why a GameCube game running at 720p (with some higher resolution textures, some screen space reflections, and other bells and whistles) instead of 480p tops at 30 FPS on a much more modern HW and faster platform even when undocked like the Switch.
Some posts back we were looking at a specs breakdown between GCN and Switch undocked and the Switch is worlds apart, just running laps and laps around it.
I appreciate you feel this game was pushing the GameCube, but again we can like this remake and still be disappointed that Nintendo's first parties are not giving more care to this game on Switch. I would be insulting their engineers if we said they could not do more and probably with ease.... this is no engineer's decision but some project manager / bean counter somewhere and giving Nintendo some shit for how they cater to their fans is warranted and healthy.
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Dr. Wilkinson
Member
Again, my only point is that 30fps to them might not have really been high on the priority list for this remake. Vs to *some on here, you would think it is the whole selling point of the game (it's not). And in particular, modern turn-based JRPGs are never 60 fps, particularly on Switch. Especially Switch games that prioritize what's on the screen vs if it's worth the trade-off to sacrifice visual fidelity in a remake in order to achieve 60fps. They probably thought even early on that it just isn't necessary, given the type of game it is and the genre. They wanted it to look amazing, first and forement. And I'd say it does
. Unlike TTYD on GCN, this remake is gorgeous, and clearly a lot of work went into visually updating every single piece of the game.It's got nothing to do with the spec difference between Switch and GameCube. It's about completely different approaches in development between 2004 Nintendo and 2024 Nintendo, and what they prioritized then vs what they proritize now. And understanding the context of the time when TTYD entered production in 2001, vs what made sense a few years ago when this remake was greenlit. And not to mention the difference in engines.
I feel like we're having two different conversations here, and the nuance keeps getting lost.
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