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[sonycowboy]

Other than the GBA launch month, handhelds NEVER outsold consoles. Not even when Pokemon launched. (I don't actually have prior gen numbers, but given that the GBA is BY FAR the fastest selling handheld and it's been alone in the market, the Gameboy most likely didn't outsell the PSOne + N64. But, I honestly don't know. But it doesn't matter.)

That is until the PSP launch. Now, for 5 months straight, handhelds have outsold consoles. Do you know what that means? You're leaving money on the table, by NOT having games out. Go to your bosses. Tell them, the handheld market is the only reason that software sales are positive this year.

Make some fargin games! NOW!!!

Look at PSP software sales. 3rd party games do very well. Just try something other than sports or racing, please. Preferably, platformers, RPG's, action, and adventure games. A couple of fighters wouldn't hurt either.

BTW, I'll post some software totals sometime soon to further prove my point.

Remember, the console market is going to be in transition for the next two years and you're going to take it up the ass from investors if you don't provide some supplemental revenue. It's right there for you to take. Take it!!

   Period       Consoles      Handheld                COMMENT
    Oct-00        391,245             0
    Nov-00        187,554             0
    Dec-00        522,239             0
    Jan-01        248,052             0
    Feb-01        233,223             0
    Mar-01        546,572             0
    Apr-01        326,014             0
    May-01        281,881             0
    Jun-01        343,631       870,179   HANDHELDS SOLD MORE
    Jul-01        351,935       360,904   (Don't forget PSOne :) )
    Aug-01        321,774       331,134   (Don't forget PSOne :) )
    Sep-01        341,300       324,329
    Oct-01        329,041       283,120
    Nov-01      2,268,006       923,664
    Dec-01      3,196,251     1,708,176
    Jan-02        543,717       170,550
    Feb-02        629,842       408,431
    Mar-02        604,816       498,948
    Apr-02        354,359       304,917
    May-02        803,686       314,146
    Jun-02      1,160,259       546,708
    Jul-02        727,530       324,166
    Aug-02        716,382       262,736
    Sep-02        868,985       272,047
    Oct-02        922,568       304,449
    Nov-02      2,175,029     1,198,489
    Dec-02      4,307,905     2,137,943
    Jan-03        695,137       260,161
    Feb-03        849,512       279,164
    Mar-03        725,649       696,982
    Apr-03        485,919       418,149
    May-03        489,632       379,446
    Jun-03        726,267       648,033
    Jul-03        572,382       481,478
    Aug-03        534,905       367,391
    Sep-03        655,584       408,725
    Oct-03        720,668       399,800
    Nov-03      2,049,851     1,186,667
    Dec-03      4,175,113     2,255,267
    Jan-04        651,137       293,971
    Feb-04        690,069       351,573
    Mar-04        655,910       496,416
    Apr-04        582,069       292,441
    May-04        548,278       268,684
    Jun-04        797,554       520,905
    Jul-04        599,480       394,088
    Aug-04        537,554       312,568
    Sep-04        633,151       524,767
    Oct-04        705,217       443,276
    Nov-04      1,754,128     1,596,870
    Dec-04      2,824,911     2,806,342
    Jan-05        844,704       445,008
    Feb-05        865,357       361,584
    Mar-05        809,840     1,067,854   HANDHELDS SOLD MORE
    Apr-05        546,949       596,609   HANDHELDS SOLD MORE
    May-05        454,940       517,035   HANDHELDS SOLD MORE
    Jun-05        593,000       694,000   HANDHELDS SOLD MORE
    Jul-05        442,000       521,000   HANDHELDS SOLD MORE
               51,920,663    31,831,290

 

[Gattsu25]

all 2 industry peeps with any sway in the industry will surely take notice with a title like that

Interesting post, though :b

 

[yoopoo]

Damn...what an obsessive sales number person you are.

 

[cvxfreak]

When you have three healthy handhelds versus one healthy console and two slackers, this is what you get.

 

[DDayton]

Publishers and Developers:

Please give us online DS games and Lucas-like adventure games for the DS.

Thank you.

 

[sonycowboy]

When you have three healthy handhelds versus one healthy console and two slackers, this is what you get.

Other than last month, the DS numbers during the period I listed, have NOT been healthy.

They sold ~1.2M of their ~1.9M+ units in 2004.

 

[Musashi Wins!]

This is a desperate attempt to get another good title for the PSP

 

[Kon Tiki]

Geez, just buy a DS.

Oh wait, you do not actually play games.

 

[Jeff-DSA]

Two handhelds are in their infancy versus three consoles in the final months...

 

[DarienA]

all 2 industry peeps with any sway in the industry will surely take notice with a title like that

Interesting post, though :b

Alot more than that lurk here... really.

 

[Firest0rm]

So this is what PSP fans have turned to now?

 

[Shao]

lol wait a minute - what are production costs like for PSP vs PS2 or even DS/GBA?

My bet is that developing a GBA game would be a better risk, lower production costs, more users, compatible with DS.

As if releasing any game on PSP right now would be easy profit lol. Way to lose credibility sonycowboy.

But yes, make more adventure games like Trace Memory for DS (only better) I WILL BUY IT!

 

[TTP]

Look at PSP software sales. 3rd party games do very well. Just try something other than sports or racing, please. Preferably, platformers, RPG's, action, and adventure games. A couple of fighters wouldn't hurt either.

And shoot'em ups. Please oh please. Don't you see how wide the screen is? Can't you imagine Gradius V on that? Hey, now that I think of it, I wouldn't mind a new Contra either.

Damn, there are so may genres and IPs out there that could make more sense on a handheld rather than on a home console. DO THOSE DAMMIT!

 

[Apenheul]

Jeff-DSA and Shao pretty much hit the nail there.

 

[sonycowboy]

Two handhelds are in their infancy versus three consoles in the final months...

Methinks the PS2 will outlive 2 out of the 3 handhelds. Final months indeed.

 

[sonycowboy]

lol wait a minute - what are production costs like for PSP vs PS2 or even DS/GBA?

My bet is that developing a GBA game would be a better risk, lower production costs, more users, compatible with DS.

As if releasing any game on PSP right now would be easy profit lol. Way to lose credibility sonycowboy.

But yes, make more adventure games like Trace Memory for DS (only better) I WILL BUY IT!

You really don't want me to go there do you?

PSP games get to charge an extra $10 per game vs the DS, UMD's cost a good bit less than cartridges, and on the whole the PSP 3rd party games sell a good bit better on the PSP than the DS. I agree that the GBA is still a goldmine, but mostly for Nintendo, collections, kiddie, and licensed games.

 

[cvxfreak]

You really don't want me to go there do you?

PSP games get to charge an extra $10 per game vs the DS, UMD's cost a good bit less than cartridges, and on the whole the PSP 3rd party games sell a good bit better on the PSP than the DS. I agree that the GBA is still a goldmine, but mostly for Nintendo, collections, kiddie, and licensed games.

Are UMDs really cheaper to manufacture than DS cards?

 

[sonycowboy]

Are UMDs really cheaper to manufacture than DS cards?

In my mind they do...

Jarrod has some quotes regarding the ability for carts to drop, but when the DS launched, they were quite expensive. UMD's reportedly cost as much as DVD's initially, which were somewhere around $1 or a little more.

 

[Wario64]

I want a bunch of Gizmondo games.

 

[FightyF]

Sounds like someone isn't satisfied with their PSP!

Got Hot shots golf and lumines today. Along with Kung Fu Hustle.

I don't see many PSP purchases for another year.

 

[DDayton]

I'd hate to see these forums if Sony were releasing "Puppy Times" for the PSP.

"YEAH -- PUPPY TIMES WILL CLOBBER POKEMON!"

 

[sonycowboy]

Geez, just buy a DS.

Oh wait, you do not actually play games.

Gotta admit, I'm a little surprised at the responses. I guess my wording made it seem a bit more desperate or fannish than I intended it to.

My point was that this is the first time that handhelds have sold better than consoles EVER and obviously Sony and Nintendo timed it this way to help supplement revenue during the console transition. I said as much in my first post.

The same opportunity exists for the DS as the PSP for the most part for publishers. So, for the DS fans, I apologize for offending you if you felt slighted. But, some of you need to stop acting like fucking retards everytime you see a comment you don't like. I stand by the comment I made about DS sales for the past 5 months, but as I've said dozens and dozens of time recently, the DS is going to have an incredible holiday season.

In any case, I thought it was an interesting point to make and I do think that publishers have already taken notice and I don't think they need this rely on my observations to run their business.

 

[LegendofJoe]

I agree that publishers need to pay more attention to handhelds, but this thread just reeks of desperation. I guess when your name is sonycowboy you have no other choice.

 

[FightyF]

^^^ Especially when the financial success of a company holds so much stake in the meaning of one's life.

 

[Tellaerin]

I agree that publishers need to pay more attention to handhelds, but this thread just reeks of desperation.

No more so than any of the 'Why isn't such-and-such title on the GAMECUBE NINTENDO?!' threads that have appeared here. From what I gather, Sonycowboy would like to see more quality titles released for a system that (I presume) he owns. Nothing wrong with that, IMO. If you're not going to cry foul whenever some bitter N-fan decides to start frothing about how third parties have neglected the Cube and how unjust it all is, then you really need to cut Sonycowboy a break, too.

 

[Izzy]

No more so than any of the 'Why isn't such-and-such title on the GAMECUBE NINTENDO?!' threads that have appeared here. From what I gather, Sonycowboy would like to see more quality titles released for a system that (I presume) he owns. Nothing wrong with that, IMO. If you're not going to cry foul whenever some bitter N-fan decides to start frothing about how third parties have neglected the Cube and how unjust it all is, then you really need to cut Sonycowboy a break, too.

Indeed.


If there's anything I'd personally like to see it's more SHMUPS. A Technosoft, Compile or Toaplan complation would be amazing. I wouldn't mind something like 'Gradius Legends' either.

 

[Spike]

This is a desperate attempt to get another good title for the PSP

Musashi Strikes Again!!

You're on a roll. Keep it up. :lol

 

[Musashi Wins!]

Gotta admit, I'm a little surprised at the responses. I guess my wording made it seem a bit more desperate or fannish than I intended it to.

I think the sales numbers gave you a surge of adrenaline today. I'm kidding, I'm addicted to Hot Shots as we speak.

 

[Open Source]

Alright, we have $3 million. Shall we:
a) Make a game for PS2

or

b) Make a game for PSP


Alright, we have $250k. Shall we:
a) Make a game for DS

or

b) give ourselves raises, throw parties, and buy ourselves dinners and hookers on the company dime

 

[Nerevar]

Look at PSP software sales. 3rd party games do very well. Just try something other than sports or racing, please. Preferably, platformers, RPG's, action, and adventure games. A couple of fighters wouldn't hurt either.

qft, bolded for truth, underlined, etc. PLEASE GOD GIVE ME SOME GOOD PSP GAMES THAT ARE NOT PUZZLERS OR RACERS, PLEASE.

 

[Alcibiades]

you also have to consider the slumping GCN and XBox sales (neither have had a huge exclusive hit lately)...

if XBox 360 weren't coming out soon and Nintendo had released more software, I'm sure console sales would be much better...

also, the PSP buying audience seems to be into sports and racing, don't see why publishers wouldn't wanna do those if that's what is selling on the PSP...

 

[jarrod]

In my mind they do...

Jarrod has some quotes regarding the ability for carts to drop, but when the DS launched, they were quite expensive. UMD's reportedly cost as much as DVD's initially, which were somewhere around $1 or a little more.

Manufacturing costs are negated somewhat by licensing fees though. Despite carts being more expensive, it's still cheaper per unit for a publisher to make a DS game than a PSP game (though that's countered by MSRPs somewhat).

 

[sonycowboy]

Manufacturing costs are negated somewhat by licensing fees though. Despite carts being more expensive, it's still cheaper per unit for a publisher to make a DS game than a PSP game (though that's countered by MSRPs somewhat).

Jar,

Where have you been? We been talking DS/PSP all day :lol

What do you mean by cheaper licensing for the DS?? What licensing?

 

[Deleted member 284]

Alright, we have $3 million. Shall we:
a) Make a game for PS2

or

b) Make a game for PSP


Alright, we have $250k. Shall we:
a) Make a game for DS

or

b) give ourselves raises, throw parties, and buy ourselves dinners and hookers on the company dime

The answer will always be A

 

[cvxfreak]

Other than last month, the DS numbers during the period I listed, have NOT been healthy.

They sold ~1.2M of their ~1.9M+ units in 2004.

Don't forget Japan. This year, handhelds have outsold consoles there, too. DS + PSP + GBASP + GBA >> PS2 + GC + Xbox.

 

[Shao]

I don't care what you think the costs are. Whatever you have to say - producing a PSP game will cost almost as much as a PS2 game simply because of the high standard of technology being squeezed in. UMD vs DS cards is NOT the issue here.

Of course my main point was that cost-wise it wouldnt necessarily guarantee profit to just release any games on PSP right now. They clearly still have to be good. Rendering your argument pointless and irrelevant - most good games on any system will make profit if advertised properly.

I mean for the cost (in terms of money, time and other resources) how many GBA/DS games could someone make versus one PSP game? Factor in that it could actually sell more on the GBA/DS - I think financial potential is abit more promising on other formats. Maybe thats why we're seeing lots of DS games coming out?

 

[----]

One thing you didn't factor in is that PSP sales might be so high because of UMD movies. If people are snatching up PSP's for the primary purpose to watch movies on the device then the data you're providing to game publishers isn't very useful.

All I know is that there aren't any games being released for my PSP and the thing is still selling like hotcakes. I also hear that UMD movies are selling incredibly well, so put 2 and 2 together, in the absence of games the PSP is quickly becoming a movie playback device.

So far I'm pretty disappointed with the release schedule for the PSP. I really thought I would have been buying more games than this. I haven't bought any games since launch.

When you have three healthy handhelds versus one healthy console and two slackers, this is what you get.

How can you consider DS healthy and Xbox not? Doesn't Xbox usually outsell DS?

 

[michael000]

For anyone curious, according to a story that ran at Gamestop about a week ago according to CESA (Computer Entertainment Supplier's Association) here's a slice of of what games were costing to make in JP in 04'.

Xbox - 202 million yen ($1.8 million) / 13 titles
PlayStation 2 - 96 million yen ($877,634) / 194 titles
GameCube - 90 million yen ($822,857) / 11 titles
PlayStation Portable - 90 million yen ($822,857) / 6 titles
PlayStation - 80 million yen ($731,429) / 1 title
Game Boy Advance - 53 million yen ($484,571) / 47 titles
DS - 37 million yen ($338,286) / 3 titles

Whole article can be read here http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/08/12/news_6130901.html

Read it as you will, stats can be misleading but this about what i expected for the PSP.

 

[Shao]

For anyone curious, according to a story that ran at Gamestop about a week ago according to CESA (Computer Entertainment Supplier's Association) here's a slice of of what games were costing to make in JP in 04'.

Xbox - 202 million yen ($1.8 million) / 13 titles
PlayStation 2 - 96 million yen ($877,634) / 194 titles
GameCube - 90 million yen ($822,857) / 11 titles
PlayStation Portable - 90 million yen ($822,857) / 6 titles
PlayStation - 80 million yen ($731,429) / 1 title
Game Boy Advance - 53 million yen ($484,571) / 47 titles
DS - 37 million yen ($338,286) / 3 titles

Whole article can be read here http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/08/12/news_6130901.html

Read it as you will, stats can be misleading but this about what i expected for the PSP.

Those 3 DS games - wonder what they were...games like Warioware must be fairly cheap to develop huh? Meteos and Lumines also seem to be examples of less costly game designs.

Why dont people develop more handheld-style low-budget games for PSP? Seems the trend is to go for "lite" versions of console games which cost alot and are not guaranteed to sell that well. i.e. GTA, Jak/Daxter thing etc.

 

[Azelover]

So this is what PSP fans have turned to now?

:lol so true

 

[heidern]

Wow, so up until recently with the userbase well over 20 million, the GBA/GBA SP dropped below 260K only once in their lifespam. The psp has already done that twice and the DS has done that many times.

I also disagree with your post SC. The problem is, there are 3 entirely different platforms. When you make a game, you won't have the entire handheld usuerbase to aim for. You aim at the GBA, the psp or the DS. That is different to consoles where you can make the same game for the ps2, xbox and the GC. Unfortunately, you have to look at each handhled individually, and with each of them doing significantly less than the GBA in its early days I don't see the publishers running to capitalise on this market.

 

[ziran]

i can see your point, sonycowboy, but i think the bottom line is dev costs.

whichever way you look at it developers for psp are faced with ps2 dev costs resulting in handheld type sales, i.e. ~ 1/3 or less, of equivalent home console game sales. so, it makes more sense to use that budget developing a ps2 game, since their games are going to be selling well for at least another 2 years.

for handheld games gba looks like it's still the best bet, [very] low dev costs and okay sales, especially since gba outsold psp in july and with the gbmicro coming soon.

i think the fact handhelds are currently outselling home consoles says more about approaching the end of a generation and the launch of a strong competitor in psp, than it does about handhelds continually outselling home consoles.

 

[donny2112]

For developers, wouldn't the market really be

1) PS2, Xbox, GCN, PSP (i.e. Make one game and port it to the other three (see: EA))
2) GBA, DS (i.e. Make a GBA game and do a GBA+ game for DS (see: EA ))

?

Unless Sony paid Rockstar a lot of money to keep GTA: LCS on the PSP only, I don't see why they wouldn't want to port it, eventually, to the PS2 and maybe Xbox. It's a bigger, obviously GTA-loving, userbase, and it shouldn't be that difficult to port. Unless it is a classic handheld design that wouldn't do that great on consoles (puzzlers, 2-D games), why not port it to various entities in 1)?

I expect most licensed GBA game to continue to get GBA+ ports to the DS, unless the GBA stops being a juggernaut for sales.

I think the message should be:

Publishers/Developers: Port your console games to the PSP with some modifications/tweaking for a relatively easy buck! Port your GBA games to the DS will some modifications/tweaking just for kicks and maybe a few bucks, if the game is good (see: ROTS)!

 

[fortified_concept]

ATTENTION: Publishers & Developers READ THIS!!! (Regarding my precious PSP)

Thread title fixed.

 

[LittleTokyo]

This thread is pathetic. Go play your PSP, because sales=fun! :lol

 

[SolidSnakex]

This thread is pathetic. Go play your PSP, because sales=fun! :lol

It does, more sales means more games which means more fun.

 

[jarrod]

Jar,

Where have you been? We been talking DS/PSP all day :lol

What do you mean by cheaper licensing for the DS?? What licensing?

Licensing as in what publishers pay in royalties to make a game for Nintendo or SCEI's closed platforms. Despite UMD being dramatically cheaper than 3DM, those savings aren't really passed on to the publishers.

 

[greenhouse]

What your figures really show is "new" hardware sells more than "old" hardware, so really Developers should avoid all handheld machines, and focus solely on the forthcoming Next Gen hardware.

If no good games come out ever again for the PSP, you're going to be directly to blame

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

So yes handhelds sold more... but there are three times as many. It's no more obvious that one should have "handheld projects", because you still have to pick an individual one, which is lesser than or equal to GBA's past success.

EDIT:
Also, when your Comments section includes several times "(Don't forget PSOne )" ... are you forgetting GBC? Surely at least in 2001 its sales were non-trivial.