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[Toothless]

Caught this op-ed earlier today and really think it gets to the heart of the relentless Ghostbusters hate train in a pretty great way. Some choice quotes:

This idea—that it’s good taste and faithful fandom, not sexism, that fuels backlash against an unreleased, as-yet-unseen movie based on nothing more than a trailer—has been capably refuted elsewhere. What interests me about Rolfe’s response is the way it reflects modern fan culture, and what might be dubbed the fanification of everything. The simultaneous rise of comic-book movies and the internet has certainly brought a fair amount of formerly nerdy pursuits into the mainstream. But while it’s beloved by plenty of nerds, and has plenty of Dan Aykroyd-penned mythology in its genesis and background details, Ghostbusters has never been a particularly niche interest.

Still, I can’t insist that everyone ought to go see a remake of Ghostbusters, because most people see maybe five movies a year in the theaters. If my movie diet was that strict, a new version of Ghostbusters wouldn’t be a priority for me, either. But Rolfe’s video is striking because of its central presumption that he deserves to want to see it—that the movie is letting him down by not following his preferred template for a new Ghostbusters movie, which would be, as he describes, a proper Ghostbusters III where the remaining cast members return and hand things off to a new generation

Yet because of fan-friendly successes like the Marvel Cinematic Universe or Star Wars: The Force Awakens, fan service has gotten almost too good of a rap as it has worked its way into mainstream film, often with considerable skill. In this context, it’s understandable that some fans of another Disney franchise-in-waiting, the wonderful animated movie Frozen, took to the internet to request that unattached princess character Elsa (whose journey in the film has ample coming-out subtext) be given a girlfriend in the forthcoming sequel. More broadly, though, the idea that hashtags, even progressive and non-sexist ones, might determine plot points of movies is a little chilling.

But loving a piece of art or pop culture shouldn’t be about constantly looking backward, or placing all of your hopes and dreams in the preservation of a particular vision. Ghostbusters doesn’t need to stay a virtually all-male Ivan Reitman film—or rather, it does stay that way no matter what else happens, because the 1984 movie is still around. Frozen doesn’t need a sequel that turns its heartening subtext into literal-minded canon to become a truly meaningful piece of art—but at the same time, if it happens to get one, the original movie will still be there as a standalone piece.

It's kinda obvious at points, but it's needed in the oddly intense Internet debate surrounding the new Ghostbusters. Here's a link.

 

[mreddie]

Timely considering the Cap stuff and other fandom issues lately.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

This article is likely to remain timely for at least the next five or so years, too.

 

[dave is ok]

#GiveDoctorWhoADogThatTalks

 

[LUFTRAUSER]

In my experience, fandoms of any kind are trash. The Internet has just made it worse.

 

[mreddie]

This article is likely to remain timely for at least the next five or so years, too.

Well, crazy fandoms have been going on since Star Wars.

 

[TheSlySoul]

But loving a piece of art or pop culture shouldn’t be about constantly looking backward, or placing all of your hopes and dreams in the preservation of a particular vision. Ghostbusters doesn’t need to stay a virtually all-male Ivan Reitman film—or rather, it does stay that way no matter what else happens, because the 1984 movie is still around. Frozen doesn’t need a sequel that turns its heartening subtext into literal-minded canon to become a truly meaningful piece of art—but at the same time, if it happens to get one, the original movie will still be there as a standalone piece.

Good quote and I agree. No matter how bad the new Tarzan turns out to be the original Disney film will still be the same.

 

[Air Zombie Meat]

Really bizarre to me that so many care about what James Rolfe thinks. You could also take the position that it's entitled to expect people like him to go and see it just because it's Ghostbusters. And it isn't a new thing for him to comment on films like the article implies.

 

[Penguin]

I get it, I get why people love things and are passionate about them, but I think folks take "ownership" of these properties which is why you find folks so... impassioned by any changes that goes against what they want... and it only gets worse when you can find an audience of like-minded people who share your outrage

 

[Betty]

These remakes/reboots/reimaginings are all about playing into fan nostalgia, so I don't think there's any issue if fans like Rolfe voice their disinterest.

Remakes of Total Recall, Robocop, Halloween, Point Break etc, etc, all of them had much the same response that Ghostbusters is getting way before release, I don't see what makes this film a special case.

 

[G-Fex]

Fandoms are the worst.

 

[DeathyBoy]

These remakes/reboots/reimaginings are all about playing into fan nostalgia, so I don't think there's any issue if fans like Rolfe voice their disinterest.

Remakes of Total Recall, Robocop, Halloween, Point Break etc, etc, all of them had much the same response that Ghostbusters is getting way before release, I don't see what makes this film a special case.

Because the narrative has been written that people are sexist meanies to this film. So any actual criticism of the poor marketing/quality trailers/casting is met with "you're sexist" retorts.

 

[Nekofrog]

Ghostbusters was never a nerd exclusive hit, I dont really get why they so vehemently claim it as theirs and then say "this isn't MY Ghostbusters" about the new movie

 

[MrCunningham]

James is sure making the rounds. I never thought he would generate so much backlash against a few personal thoughts on a movie that he doesn't want to see. But James does make really good fodder or just a finger to point at because he does fall into the "you're ruining my childhood" male 30-something type that people just want to counter argument against.

 

[Tripon]

Eh, people have their own weird reason to not see it. Can't worry about everything.

 

[Empyrean Heaven]

In this context, it’s understandable that some fans of another Disney franchise-in-waiting, the wonderful animated movie Frozen, took to the internet to request that unattached princess character Elsa (whose journey in the film has ample coming-out subtext) be given a girlfriend in the forthcoming sequel

Wat

I mean, I'm cool with it, but seriously, wat.

 

[tkscz]

that the movie is letting him down by not following his preferred template for a new Ghostbusters movie

So it's entitlement when a movie you've been wanting for isn't what you wanted so you're not going to see it? I mean, there is a lot of stuff out there I don't like or was expecting to be one way and it came out another and I just didn't take interest either. That's not entitlement, that's having an opinion. He isn't telling Sony to stop making it. He isn't making any demands that things be changed to what he wants. He simply doesn't like the way it looks nor it's comedy, thus, he isn't seeing it.

These remakes/reboots/reimaginings are all about playing into fan nostalgia, so I don't think there's any issue if fans like Rolfe voice their disinterest.

Also this. Why even make another Ghostbuster's movie if it isn't immediately aimed at fans of the original? Even those making it either are in the same boat as the fans or are being made to make it for the money.

 

[HStallion]

While I see why people do it I always find it funny when people get so invested in something they lose their minds over it. I love Berserk as an IP and I'm always disappointed when it gets a poor adaptation but its not the end of the world, I still have the manga and bad movies/shows don't really change that or my feelings for. Of course that's my own view and not one I see is shared by large swaths of certain fanbases but it seems so damn fickle and arbitrary.

 

[Betty]

Because the narrative has been written that people are sexist meanies to this film. So any actual criticism of the poor marketing/quality trailers/casting is met with "you're sexist" retorts.

I know but it feels manufactured.

The outcry from MRA groups over Furiosa in Mad Max felt real and actually got me interested in the film to the point I watched it 3 times in cinemas.

Here it just doesn't feel as evident, mostly because the trailers make the film look crap and it's trying too hard to be a straight up remake of the first one rather than be it's own thing.

 

[TheSlySoul]

Fandoms are the worst.

I think the idea that an IP is sacred and cannot be reimagined needs to go away.
Like take The Shining for example. Movie adapted a different take on it, King did not like it and made a TV mini-series. TV mini-series was terrible and had the creator control of it.

True some stuff does pander to nostalgia to sell it but perhaps not all films are like that. Not everything is Transformers.

While I noticed varying receptions, I did not see the level of vitrol against the movies you mentioned. I didn't even know Halloween had a recent remake tbh.

At least they did not have dislike campaigns against them despite being as bad if not worse.

 

[GeordieMark]

These remakes/reboots/reimaginings are all about playing into fan nostalgia, so I don't think there's any issue if fans like Rolfe voice their disinterest.

Remakes of Total Recall, Robocop, Halloween, Point Break etc, etc, all of them had much the same response that Ghostbusters is getting way before release, I don't see what makes this film a special case.

Yeah, that's how I see it. Its one of those "you can't have your cake and eat it too" situations.

 

[Eidan]

So it's entitlement when a movie you've been wanting for isn't what you wanted so you're not going to see it? I mean, there is a lot of stuff out there I don't like or was expecting to be one way and it came out another and I just didn't take interest either. That's not entitlement, that's having an opinion. He isn't telling Sony to stop making it. He isn't making any demands that things be changed to what he wants. He simply doesn't like the way it looks nor it's comedy, thus, he isn't seeing it.

Well he isn't just not seeing it. He made a video declaring he won't be seeing it. He made not seeing a stance. An act of righteous protest. And that tastes a lot more like entitlement.

 

[Nekofrog]

I know but it feels manufactured.

The outcry from MRA groups over Furiosa in Mad Max felt real and actually got me interested in the film to the point I watched it 3 times in cinemas.

Here it just doesn't feel as evident, mostly because the trailers make the film look crap and it's trying too hard to be a straight up remake of the first one rather than be it's own thing.

Manufactured how? From the second it was announced as an all female cast for the Ghostbusters, they have been under relentless attacks by mra nerd misogynysts. Like brutal ones. Remember the hospital children while the movie was still filming?

 

[Grizzlyjin]

If fans always got their way, they would drive every single show, movie, book, and game into the ground. Every single one. Just look at any fan casting for a movie. It's always the same choices, and usually because they held a gun like that character in some movie they did before or they have the same hair color or style as the character. People are knob slobbing over Deadpool right now, especially for it being so true to the character. But be honest, most of the same fans that are applauding it now never would have given Ryan Reynolds another shot after Green Lantern and X-Men Origins. Chris Evans as Captain America? No way! He was in those terrible Fantastic Four movies.

The reaction to Ghostbusters is just a complete mess. I'm glad the article touched on that. Sequels don't ruin the original, people need to get over that. Reboots don't ruin the original. You will always have the originals. People don't like the original Star Wars less because of the prequels, at least not any fans I've ever met. And it got a whole new generation a chance to get interested in the franchise.

One Christmas all I asked for was Ghostbusters stuff. Proton pack, action figures, the whole nine yards. I loved the cartoon, movies, everything. And I was like 6, I probably didn't understand half the jokes in those movies. But I loved it. I have fond memories attached to the franchise...annnnnnnd this movie coming out doesn't change any of that. If it sucks, people will just forget about it. If its good, we got a great comedy movie this year. But I swear some people attach their emotional well-being to these properties and it's sad.

People keeping saying that the negative reactions aren't sexism but the marketing. Except that the reactions have been going on since the cast was announced. Like literally people have been freaking out since then.

 

[SneakersSO]

I get it, I get why people love things and are passionate about them, but I think folks take "ownership" of these properties which is why you find folks so... impassioned by any changes that goes against what they want... and it only gets worse when you can find an audience of like-minded people who share your outrage

This goes the other way too. Fandoms have also gone & created ideas or narratives that they so wholeheartedly believe in that they become utterly incensed if they don't get their way. It's not just a property/idea has to remain the same it starts off as - it also needs to bend to the will of the fans whenever they see fit.

But this starts a larger conversation of intellectual control of a 'thing' once it a fandom exists around it, or at the very least once it becomes profitable.

 

[JCX]

These remakes/reboots/reimaginings are all about playing into fan nostalgia, so I don't think there's any issue if fans like Rolfe voice their disinterest.

Remakes of Total Recall, Robocop, Halloween, Point Break etc, etc, all of them had much the same response that Ghostbusters is getting way before release, I don't see what makes this film a special case.

While I noticed varying receptions, I did not see the level of vitrol against the movies you mentioned. I didn't even know Halloween had a recent remake tbh.

 

[Averon]

I will never understand why so many reactive so fiercely to such an inoffensive video. If James was making a trailer review using his AVGN persona shitting all over it, I guess I could see where the hate was coming from, but that wasn't the case.

 

[Jawmuncher]

While I noticed varying receptions, I did not see the level of vitrol against the movies you mentioned. I didn't even know Halloween had a recent remake tbh.

All of those reboots had nostalgia attached, but never really big fanbases. At least not one's willing to be loud. Most talk was basically left at "looks like shit, will not watch". Then they went off to be forgotten by everyone. The ghostbusters stuff is definitely on a whole other level, especially with what it can be tied to.

 

[cr0w]

I don't give a shit if Rolfe doesn't want to see it. What annoys me is when people are egocentric enough to think I need to know why they don't want to see something. I didn't give a shit about why you hated something when I used to kick you out of the comic shop for bothering other customers for hours on end, and I don't give a shit now even if you've found an audience that, for some reason, actually listens to your drivel.

 

[Nekofrog]

All of those reboots had nostalgia attached, but never really big fanbases. At least not one's willing to be loud. Most talk was basically left at "looks like shit, will not watch". Then they went off to be forgotten by everyone.

Halloween is one of the most revered horror movies of all time. The comparison is totally valid. The fandom for the original is gigantic.

 

[NeonBlack]

In defense of the Ghostbusters fans, they are making this movie to cash in on them. If this was a new movie franchise about ghost catching they're would be some weight to that argument.

 

[cr0w]

Halloween is one of the most revered horror movies of all time. The comparison is totally valid. The fandom for the original is gigantic.

Yes. It was mostly in horror circles, but there was a ton of backlash against the Halloween remake and its sequel. Still is, really. Horror nerds aren't as widely represented as your general comic or sci-fi nerds are these days. It's still very niche.

 

[PsychoSoldier]

Fandom will always get mad at remakes, but the level of the vitriol has been unprecedented and all we have so far is trailers.

The idea that the rage for this being greater, than say, something like BayTurtles, has nothing to do with the main characters being women is something I find funny, and the stubborn attitude of someone like Rolfe is mystifying.

Try new shit even if it's based off shit you liked. The other way lies yelling at people to get off your lawn.

 

[Betty]

Manufactured how? From the second it was announced as an all female cast for the Ghostbusters, they have been under relentless attacks by mra nerd misogynysts. Like brutal ones. Remember the hospital children while the movie was still filming?

The difference here is that many more people, male and female, really dislike the film purely because of how the trailers have portrayed it.

If it were just misogynists it wouldnt' be as pervasive, there's been lots of films that were attacked by insecure guys and their voice ended up being tiny compared to the internet as a whole.

While I noticed varying receptions, I did not see the level of vitrol against the movies you mentioned. I didn't even know Halloween had a recent remake tbh.

It was so bad most people forgot it, it even got a sequel.

 

[tkscz]

Well he isn't just not seeing it. He made a video declaring he won't be seeing it. He made not seeing a stance. An act of righteous protest. And that tastes a lot more like entitlement.

He says right in the video because fans were asking him. His video was an answer to those who knew how huge a Ghostbusters fan he was. So he gave his answer in the best way possible in that situation. This way, all his fans who are asking see it, and they know exactly why.

 

[richiek]

I don't buy James Rolfe's rationale of not watching the new Ghostbusters because it deviates so much from the original.

It seems he doesn't have the same standards to Michael Bay Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles film, and he's as much a fan of the TMNT as he is Ghostbusters:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYKRNYFgEKA

Skip to 29:00

 

[Rockandrollclown]

Just wait until they remake Back to the Future. We'll look back on how the Ghostbusters remake hate looked quaint by comparison.

 

[FriedConsole]

There has always been these kind of reactions but now the media reports on people's reactions like they are news. I don't care what random people on Twitter think. I don't have Twitter. When I watch or read the news I don't need a "journalist" telling me what nobodies say on Twitter. I don't care. Somebody should do a story to explain to me what is going on in the middle east, Africa or anything else but this drivel.

 

[Grizzlyjin]

In defense of the Ghostbusters fans, they are making this movie to cash in on them. If this was a new movie franchise about ghost catching they're would be some weight to that argument.

People would say its a ghostbusters rip off then. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Obviously it is going to play off that nostalgia a little, but I'm sure they're just as interested in getting new, much younger fans.

 

[Air Zombie Meat]

Manufactured how? From the second it was announced as an all female cast for the Ghostbusters, they have been under relentless attacks by mra nerd misogynysts. Like brutal ones. Remember the hospital children while the movie was still filming?

There have but why has James Rolfe been treated as a representative of those kind of people?

 

[Eidan]

He says right in the video because fans were asking him. His video was an answer to those who knew how huge a Ghostbusters fan he was. So he gave his answer in the best way possible in that situation. This way, all his fans who are asking see it, and they know exactly why.

...ok? I'm not sure how that changes anything I said.

 

[G-Fex]

I think the idea that an IP is sacred and cannot be reimagined needs to go away.
Like take The Shining for example. Movie adapted a different take on it, King did not like it and made a TV mini-series. TV mini-series was terrible and had the creator control of it.

True some stuff does pander to nostalgia to sell it but perhaps not all films are like that. Not everything is Transformers.


At least they did not have dislike campaigns against them despite being as bad if not worse.

Well yeah I agree, and of course the strange 'ownership' fandoms take that try to force things onto said IP. Like insane stuff.

Well he isn't just not seeing it. He made a video declaring he won't be seeing it. He made not seeing a stance. An act of righteous protest. And that tastes a lot more like entitlement.

ding ding ding ding

But I swear some people attach their emotional well-being to these properties and it's sad..

This too

 

[Metrotab]

People Upset With Man Not Watching Movie

 

[cr0w]

Just wait until they remake Back to the Future. We'll look back on how the Ghostbusters remake hate looked quaint by comparison.

As long as Zemeckis is alive it won't be remade. That's actually a clause in the original contract.

 

[peaceiscloser]

Wat

I mean, I'm cool with it, but seriously, wat.

Same here. If it happened, fine, but if artistic execution is being compromised just for fan service, that's no bueno.

but zootopia was good, so eh

 

[tkscz]

...ok? I'm not sure how that changes anything I said.

It's less of taking a stand, and more of answering a question in detail as to not get asked again/ giving the fans what they want.

 

[Malyse]

Fandoms are dumb fans.

 

[LUFTRAUSER]

People Upset With Man Not Watching Movie

 

[Flo_Evans]

I think the backlash is pretty understandable...

Ghostbusters was not in anyway that I can recall a sexist movie. So you announce a new one, but its all about girl power rawr, and isn't it great, we are ghostbusters, but wait, GIRL ghostbusters!

Then you release some promo shit and its pure trash.

So you have taken a classic movie, turned it into some kind of empowering feminist piece, then made it bad.

Female ghostbusters to me doesn't really seem to be righting some wrong, its like they did it just for marketing... because they couldn't come up with a good movie.

 

[Brakke]

Well, crazy fandoms have been going on since Star Wars.

I think you mean they've been going on since The Illiad.