iRAWRasaurus
Banned
Doesn't matter, just saying military alliances should be upheld as long as the conditions of such event does fall under the treaty.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
BBC: Tremor is detected in North Korea (up: nuclear test conducted)
- Thread starter mid83
- Start date
PdotMichael
Banned
Please, answer the question. Europe has no alliance with the USA which involves anything Korea related
MeatGrinder
Member
We ain't sleeping in Europe if that's your concern.
Pancake Mix
Copied someone else's pancake recipe
Right, but Putin would happily invade any country on Russia's borders (with any excuse in mind) if they only have conventional weapons, that's the big problem with him.
Don't need to listen to him giving advice most world leaders would give.
Hellwarden
Member
RumbleHumble
Banned
Trump's blaming SK's "appeasement" for the NK problem, huh? Combine that with withdrawing from the trade policy with them, and it's looking like Trump just wants to get out of SK in general.
I get that he admires NK's leadership and is scared of dealing with the NK problem, but this is a huge mistake.
Watch for Breitbart shitting on SK relations over the course of the next six months.
hobblygobbly
Member
NK's leadership just read his tweets...
And why the fuck wouldn't they laugh. The US president is being outwitted by Kim Blob Un.
Kind off topic and I know that's a Sony screen but I wonder if NK uses Samsung screens at all? Lol.
That image is completely unrelated to the top headline. Here is the full article:
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/03/...column-region®ion=top-news&WT.nav=top-news
gutter_trash
Banned
What's the name of the treaty?
RumbleHumble
Banned
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...ea-after-north-korean-bomb-test-idUSKCN1BE0OB
"South Korea is finding, as I have told them, that their talk of appeasement with North Korea will not work, they only understand one thing!"
SDCowboy
Member
While I don't think he should have tweeted that, for obvious reasons, those are hardly harsh words, much less the harshest.
dragonelite
Member
Why don't you want to sacrifice your citizens south korea, so we can show the world
we are still #1 world police?
iRAWRasaurus
Banned
Uh sure? For example if a NATO country was attacked and invoked article 7, as long as the conditions are meet, I will support it regardless if our shit head of a leader does or not. Along with the ANZUS treaty and the other vast amounts of Mutual Defense Treaties.
If USA is the aggressor in this, I wouldn't expect any support from X country if it doesn't fall under the Y treaty between USA and X country.
RumbleHumble
Banned
It's a bad headline, but it's pretty out of the ordinary for a sitting US President to criticize South Korea for enabling North Korea.
Yes, I know, we live in the age of Trump now. I shouldn't be surprised. Still, telling the Prime Minister of a country that very well could no longer exist if he took military action against NK that the only solution to this problem is taking military action against NK is a little on the "Fucking dumb as shit" side of things.
There's a reason he said "in addition to other options". Don't take any of it too seriously, he's just running his mouth.
SDCowboy
Member
Well in the incredibly unlikely event NK tried to attack the US, it would.
PdotMichael
Banned
NATO is not relevant for anything Pacific related.
Pancake Mix
Copied someone else's pancake recipe
The vast majority of Europe does, in fact, have a self-defence agreement which can be invoked if the US is attacked first.
Blue is NATO.
Wrong.
Mammoth Jones
Member
Should have dealt with them one way or another over ten fucking years ago.
Either swallow your pride and break bread and negotiate directly and offer concessions in exchange for concessions.
Or go the fuck in before they continued to develop nuclear weapons that they can use to hit the US or SK.
Like it or not nothing to do now except give them a seat at the big boy table. If Pakistan gets a seat then NK will have to as well. Sucks but it's better than millions dead.
Either swallow your pride and break bread and negotiate directly and offer concessions in exchange for concessions.
Or go the fuck in before they continued to develop nuclear weapons that they can use to hit the US or SK.
Like it or not nothing to do now except give them a seat at the big boy table. If Pakistan gets a seat then NK will have to as well. Sucks but it's better than millions dead.
The vast majority of Europe does, in fact have a self-defence agreement which can be invoked if the US is attacked.
Blue is NATO.
NATO does not apply anywhere outside of the North Atlantic or immediate surrounding areas.
SDCowboy
Member
So are you telling me that if NK attacked the US, that wouldn't include NATO?
iRAWRasaurus
Banned
That's why I said " for example " and "in general" regarding treaties.
PdotMichael
Banned
The vast majority of Europe does, in fact, have a self-defence agreement which can be invoked if the US is attacked first.
Blue is NATO.
Wrong.
NATO wasn't relevant when Argentinia invaded the Falkland Islands. NATO only includes areas in the Northern Atlantic and then only main territories.
You are free to read the Wikipedia article related to NATO.
Dubbedinenglish
Banned
Article 5 was invoked after 9/11, any attack on the US would have the same response.
Actually it applies to anything above the Tropic of Cancer
SDCowboy
Member
Again, if NK attacked the US, are you saying that wouldn't involve NATO?
He did say America First (read: only) a billion times.
"The Parties agree that an armed attack against one or more of them in Europe or North America shall be considered an attack against them all and consequently they agree that, if such an armed attack occurs, each of them, in exercise of the right of individual or collective self-defence recognised by Article 51 of the Charter of the United Nations, will assist the Party or Parties so attacked by taking forthwith, individually and in concert with the other Parties, such action as it deems necessary, including the use of armed force, to restore and maintain the security of the North Atlantic area."
http://www.nato.int/cps/en/natolive/official_texts_17120.htm?selectedLocale=en
I suppose it depends how you define US, and even then unlikely.
NATO isn't coming in for a Guam strike.
It would also be unnecessary as the US already has ROK, JSDF and its ANZUS partners that would be active in the theater. More than enough help without throwing NATO in.
Pancake Mix
Copied someone else's pancake recipe
No, you are free to crack open a book or inform yourselves. You just showed you're both ignorant of what NATO means.
Article 6 was relevant with the Falklands, it's not relevant here.
There you have it.
SDCowboy
Member
I said the US, not Guam.
PdotMichael
Banned
Pancake Mix
Copied someone else's pancake recipe
There you go, if North Korea attacks the US (possibly minus Guam), it's covered.
I never said anything about island territories.
North Korea would have to be absolutely insane, regardless.
NyMartin90
Member
NATO was invoked for 9/11. Guam is a US territory. It has US citizens. It would be in application if even the waters of Guam were hit. The waters around Guam are US territorial waters.
https://www.nauticalcharts.noaa.gov/csdl/mbound.htm
jakonovski
Member
It's 100% going to be the US striking North Korea first.
PdotMichael
Banned
Nice attempt of moving the goalpost to look less wrong.
The NATO has no business in joining the USA regarding to Trump's Korea policy.
You'd see South Korea or Japan shooting at US assets before that would happen. Nothing happens on the Peninsula without their approval, because they're directly in the line of fire. Don't listen to Graham or Trump,
Pancake Mix
Copied someone else's pancake recipe
No, you're really, really confused. IF North Korea launches an attack on the US it is an attack on NATO, period.
You're the only one moving goalposts and were clearly confused about what NATO means.
SDCowboy
Member
Dude, you're the one who is mistaken here. If NK attacked the US (I'm not talking about Guam), that would involve NATO.
NyMartin90
Member
This is right. NATO would be triggered to come to the US' aid.
PdotMichael
Banned
IF North Korea launches an attack... wasn't the origin of the string of discussion but if Europe is forced to join the USA and Trump's Korea policy.
Which is plain wrong.
You are just adding that point to have anything to argue about. Trump is alone regarding to his Korea policy, that's the reality.
SDCowboy
Member
Who the hell said anything about that?
NATO was invoked for 9/11. Guam is a US territory. It has US citizens. It would be in application if even the waters of Guam were hit. The waters around Guam are US territorial waters.
https://www.nauticalcharts.noaa.gov/csdl/mbound.htm
Irrelevant. Guam is not in the North Atlantic Area and is thus not under its umbrella. It wouldn't mean no NATO involvement, but far from mandated. 9/11 was a direct attack against a treaty party in North America above the tropic of Cancer, therefore it applies to that situation.
Reposting from other poster above.
PdotMichael
Banned
It also common opinion that not even Hawaii would fall under the NATO umbrella, at least regarding to article 5
That's funny because the string started with your post
And developed into a NATO related question (though it took some time until NATO was namedropped) after users stated that Europe wouldn't join Trump.
That's funny because the string started with your post
And developed into a NATO related question (though it took some time until NATO was namedropped) after users stated that Europe wouldn't join Trump.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
Guam is not included under NATO. It is not on the mainland North American continent, and does not lie in the Atlantic. Just so we're clear. Nor does NATO membership oblige NATO members to align with United States foreign policy.
SDCowboy
Member
Me wanting the EU to speak out has nothing to do with enacting NATO...
jakonovski
Member
Invoking NATO in matters North Korea would be a great way to get the whole treaty to unravel though.
PdotMichael
Banned
Yes