March Climber
Member
Someone, someday will finally manage to fuse all 3 together successfully.
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Bethesda On Starfield's Big, Empty Planets: Not Every Location "Is Supposed To Be Disney World"
- Thread starter havoc00
- Start date
Lokaum D+
Member
I really thought Bethesda was aiming for this, I was wrong
March Climber
Member
It's kind of a chicken/egg situation with them and their engine. We will never know the truth until they release a behind the scenes year(s) from now stating if their intent was to have the space exploration more like No Man's Sky or not, and if they simply weren't able to do it or simply didn't want to do it that way.
RoboFu
One of the green rats
I still think a lot of you are forgetting that starfield is the only space rpg that keeps all your choices and action and actually changes outcomes and interactions. It’s the only one that enemies remember and act across zones and areas and will actively seek you out in the universe.
It’s exactly what cyberpunk was downed for not being.
It’s exactly what cyberpunk was downed for not being.
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Romulus
Member
What do you mean? Like they spawn where you are after a set number of hours of gameplay like the fallout games did?
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
I was planning to play it on Sep. 06. I don't think I will now.
Arsic
Loves his juicy stink trail scent
It’ll be interesting to see how the overhaul and changes to CP2077 will stack up to starfield. CP2077 on launch was messy too but I remember liking it a lot right out of the gate where SF I was not for 10-12 hours.
Pretty comparable games in terms of gameplay and approach to gameplay loops.
Pretty comparable games in terms of gameplay and approach to gameplay loops.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Not really fair… I mean it is bot really fair to ask people bot to play/expect Space Skyrim…
March Climber
Member
You're right, but there's nothing we can do at this point. The game has it's own preferred way of being played and it deviates a ton from the way Skyrim was set up. If anything, people should be spreading the word about this, because there's going to be more and more displeased Skyrim fans not understanding Starfield's gameplay loop to their own detriment.
coffinbirth
Member
I'm not trying to sell anything to anyone. I responded to someone saying this game doesn't have space exploration, which is obviously untrue. People pretending we didn't know how the spaceship system worked either haven't been paying attention for the last year, or, such as the case here, arguing semantics in bad faith. Did people really think this was going to be Star Citizen or something? LMAO gamers in 2023.Look, I'm not saying you are wrong, you are merely doing a bad job selling this to anyone and explaining your point based on how we know the term "exploration" is used. Like, you fight a space ship, disable it, board the ship, kill everyone and steal the shit...consider you can search this ship, one can define this as "exploration" as something that was odd, unusual and out of no where happened and now you are on a ship searching around.
You can find loot, you can steal the ship, you can start a whole ass quest where you find some kid on board that doesn't know you wrecked his whole family and now you must lie to the kid and hold on to this dark secret lol I fucking joke, but there is point I'm making here...look at how that just opened up a whole ass narrative to support a random side quest all cause you explored a ship.
Though I'm not sure if any such mission exist or even if any mission starts after you board a ship (it fucking should btw or they fucked up MASSIVELY), such things can support this idea of exploring space, even if you go thru some loading screens or something lol
So you are not wrong Coffin, but neither isHeisenberg007 . There is a level of expectation that exploration would exist in space to offer some gameplay element, narrative etc.
The game is after all called "STAR"field
Are also you under the impression this isn't the case? There is an entire faction devoted to exploring uncharted planets, travelling to them, scanning their biomes, going to the surface, scanning flora and fauna, harvesting their resources to use for crafting new medicines, etc.
How is that NOT space exploration?
Why are people so eager to hate this game?
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coffinbirth
Member
Why are you responding to me and stalking me instead of playing said game?
Warriors making this ignore list grow, lmao.
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March Climber
Member
To play devil's advocate, I think the larger crowd here just wanted this to feel more seamless, like NMS, and less disjointed/loading screens like Mass Effect. Constantly loading into zones feels less like space exploration and more like picking a new map on a multiplayer game like Halo or something.
I'm personally fine with the latter considering how story-heavy this game is going to be, like Mass Effect.
coffinbirth
Member
Yeah, I quickly got over that. It's downright merciful when staring down the content barrel. Ironically, the landing and departing stuff in NMS quickly became a novelty and time killer for me, personally. If you were to transplant all of the content and systems of Starfield into the framework of NMS, you would probably have the best game ever.
March Climber
Member
Also on a side note, try not to let it bother you too much. Next thing you know you'll be playing Forum Battle Royale like a few other posters here, blocking people left and right if they didn't make it into the circle. You'll end up accidentally blocking posters like myself just because we said the wrong thing once, and I don't hold any issues or malice with anyone here, no matter how much we argue.
I don't know how the forum experience would look on your end when doing this, but I can't imagine it would be any fun due to being, well... empty.
El Pistolero
Banned
Cyberpunkd
Member
Here's the issue:
NMS came out in 2016.
Mass Effect in 2007, last part in 2012 (let's not count Andromeda)
So you have a game that is unable to push the envelope vs. a game that is 7 years old, and another that is at least 11 years old.
WTF has Bethesda been doing for the last decade, apart from re-mastering Skyrim all the time?
Even the closest comparison - Witcher 3 - showed that you can have open world and a great store / side content. Yes, there was some copy-paste with monster contracts, but vast majority of quests were really unique (and some as the Baron's or the 3 Crones were talked about for years to come). That game came out in 2015.
Again - WTF has Bethesda been doing for the last decade, apart from re-mastering Skyrim all the time?
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Yerd
Member
The main quest brings you to mars then venus. I went off the path and explored mars for a bit and discovered an abandoned listening post. Later on down the line, I landed on venus, wasn't part of the quest, and explored there a bit and came across another abandoned listening post. It had the exact same layout, the same item placement, the same bad guys. That was my first indication that the game needed more time, or a different approach to how we encounter these locations. I suspect if I come across another abandoned listening post it's going to be the same no matter what planet.
It's disappointing, but the game is still fun outside of that. Exploring has less of an impact when it's the same thing over and over.
It's disappointing, but the game is still fun outside of that. Exploring has less of an impact when it's the same thing over and over.
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anthraticus
Banned
Exactly. Bethesda's banal and shitty vision of the future is pretty much exactly what I was expecting from them though.
Eotheod
Member
It is incredibly hard to determine what is legitimate criticism, and what is fanatical responses (on either side of the console "wars") to a game that either isn't on their console or not what they hyped up.
I'm seeing it not just in enthusiast boards, but also in the reviews which is difficult to really make sense of what the game offers. I don't doubt it's a good game, even Fallout 4 was a good game, I just didn't like it enough to go past 13 hours of it. Granted Starfield has a lot more going for me in that it is a space opera and I love those types of RPG's.
I do wish critics would be able to separate the childish war-like mentality of "winning" and such, instead providing in-depth discussion on what works and doesn't work. Take for example the whole empty space planet aspect, one could easily say that's an intended design aesthetic to increase the atmospheric nature of the game being that it is in space. On the other hand, it could have been developer limitations or unexpected consequences of a system they chose.
I guess, like all games, the truth of what it can offer and what enjoyment you get out of it will be as simple as playing to determine.
I'm seeing it not just in enthusiast boards, but also in the reviews which is difficult to really make sense of what the game offers. I don't doubt it's a good game, even Fallout 4 was a good game, I just didn't like it enough to go past 13 hours of it. Granted Starfield has a lot more going for me in that it is a space opera and I love those types of RPG's.
I do wish critics would be able to separate the childish war-like mentality of "winning" and such, instead providing in-depth discussion on what works and doesn't work. Take for example the whole empty space planet aspect, one could easily say that's an intended design aesthetic to increase the atmospheric nature of the game being that it is in space. On the other hand, it could have been developer limitations or unexpected consequences of a system they chose.
I guess, like all games, the truth of what it can offer and what enjoyment you get out of it will be as simple as playing to determine.
Negotiator101
Member
What possible gaming satisfaction would continuously manually landing on a planet give you? Once or twice and you'd use the teleport button
I tell you what why don't you actually play the game and see the incredible amount of work that has gone into Starfield before posting absolute rubbish. Also you're sporting a Cyberpunk avatar for crying out loud
EDMIX
Member
I mean you are not trying to actually PROVE the point....
smh, you've spent more time saying this, then actually proving anything....you are just saying "untrue" yet not really proving anything with actual facts, logic, evidence etc.
Sooooo yea, I want you to read very carefully what you just said....none of that shit has anything to do with "space" that has more to do with the fucking planet, then it does anything about space
Sir...you can do a lot of what you just stated in Metroid Prime, a game where clearly its not about you flying to different planets, merely being on a planet after a cut scene of a ship crashing, what you are talking about is exploring THE PLANET.
So this means the point stands. Space Exploration as far as I can see, is limited to raiding a ship you just disabled and its sounding like that pretty much is it.... if there is anything more that can be done in space to support "SPACE exploration" , you are not doing a great job at actually proving it
Nah, you keep resulting to making this a personal thing anytime someone makes a valid point about this fucking game.
I'm telling you this and I own the fucking game sir...
pasterpl
Member
Wasn’t expecting more from one of the biggest Sony fans on this forum. Just drive by shit post with 0 minutes on the game clock.
Gambit2483
Member
Bethesda games usually settle pretty well once everyone accepts and gets past the jank and limitations of what it can't do and focus on what it excels at, which apparentlty is it's emergent events/side quests and an amazing new game+.
And that's before we consider what the modding community will do to improve the game. All this to say, no, It most likely won't suffer the same fate as Halo Infinite.
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
TheInfamousKira
Reseterror Resettler
"You can't judge those grassroots rascals on their shoe string budget! It's not like they have a big team or massive liquid funds or a QA team! It'd be one thing if it really affected you, but videogames are cheap, yeah?" - some guy, probably
Astral Dog
Member
Did he just confirmed some planets are Disney parks?
MasterCornholio
Member
fallingdove
Member
So instead you prefer hundreds of empty planets with copy/pasted outposts and identical enemy placement. Gotcha.
balls of snow
Member
Nah give it a try. Stick to main missions and side activity. Its quite something the amount of bespoke content they did. Treat planets like resoource gathering spots.
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
I'm thinking of waiting some more time, hoping the game improves its QoL features. It'll also be discounted in a few months, so a win-win for me.
My only interest in this game was the possibility of living my Firefly fantasy. It seems very limiting in that regard. My next hope is Star Wars Outlaw.
On the side note, if anybody else knows of another game that allows players to live their Firefly fantasy, PLEASE do share. I'd be so grateful.
March Climber
Member
Once again, it sounds like everyone should play this exactly like a certain Bioware series...
ryzen1
Member
I really like Starfield so far. But the exploration is super annoying.
The "exploration" is just clicking through menus and watching loading screens/animations.
Stupidity at the highest level was a mission where I had to repair 3 or 4 satellites in 4 different locations.
Click through menues, fast travel to system 1, kill 4 enemies ships, repair satellite.
Click through menues, fast travel to system 2, kill 4 enemies ships, repair another satellite.
Click through menues, fast travel to system 3, kill 4 enemies ships, repair fucking satellite.
Click through menues, fast travel to system 4, kill 4 enemies ships, repair another fucking satellite.
At least let me "explore" the planet I'm visiting with my ship. Do I really have to WALK accross the whole planet?!
The "exploration" is just clicking through menus and watching loading screens/animations.
Stupidity at the highest level was a mission where I had to repair 3 or 4 satellites in 4 different locations.
Click through menues, fast travel to system 1, kill 4 enemies ships, repair satellite.
Click through menues, fast travel to system 2, kill 4 enemies ships, repair another satellite.
Click through menues, fast travel to system 3, kill 4 enemies ships, repair fucking satellite.
Click through menues, fast travel to system 4, kill 4 enemies ships, repair another fucking satellite.
At least let me "explore" the planet I'm visiting with my ship. Do I really have to WALK accross the whole planet?!
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Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
One could also expect a next-generation only game by the inventors of Direct Storage would… make great use of it and have seamless loading or much much shorter loading pauses too, but we need to accept this is not really a next-generation only game. It likely has a PS4 port running almost decently (not sure on Xbox One)… possibly only made next-generation only fairly recently (as in the last 2-3 or so years).
Bernardougf
Gold Member
Or maybe when you have jack shit to play for months and months of empty promises.. anything remotely barely competent will do the trick
kuncol02
Banned
Diablo is no RPG either. It's action game with loot and 100% linear story.
Go do your research first, this game is basicaly a good Diablo game on Space.
vaibhavpisal
Member
This sounds weird.
If an RPG will not allow you to live a fantasy, how will an action game do it?
YeulEmeralda
Member
So Mass Effect is still the king of space opera? Nice try though Bethesda.
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
If I'm not mistaken, Star Wars Outlaw is supposed to be more like an RPG where you can make different choices with consequences. It also has the 'outlaw' element and seamless planetary exploration and space exploration.
We have limited information, so I'm not 100% confident if it'll be a good fit or not. I said, it is my next hope. It can also fail to deliver like Starfield for me. We'll wait and see. I hope it does deliver, though.
Gambit2483
Member
Because they always do..? Don't ask me, ask the millions that love Fallout and Skyrim despite the Jank and limitations.
nkarafo
Member
I actually agree with this point. Empty spaces exist in the real world and not all places have something interesting for you to interact with. The world isn't made with you in mind.
Now sure, video games are not the real world and are made for you to have fun. But some games try to simulate certain things. Some try to simulate vast worlds. And vast worlds need some emptiness between occupied spaces to simulate distance and isolation between them. I rather have that than some stupid busy work every 5 meters, like those dreaded korok puzzles in the recent Zelda games.
Now sure, video games are not the real world and are made for you to have fun. But some games try to simulate certain things. Some try to simulate vast worlds. And vast worlds need some emptiness between occupied spaces to simulate distance and isolation between them. I rather have that than some stupid busy work every 5 meters, like those dreaded korok puzzles in the recent Zelda games.
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kuncol02
Banned
That means that planet is ~15km in diameter if it's really walking and not running. Even if we assume it's 100% sprint then it's still ~150km diameter, 1/10 of pluto. Walk around "planet".
RoboFu
One of the green rats
So now starfield and elderscrolls are games that don’t have consequences for your choices!?
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RoadHazard
Gold Member
With how many load screens there are (to get into or leave your ship, to enter a city, to enter buildings inside cities, etc), I can only assume their engine simply isn't capable of seamlessly streaming in different parts of an environment. Pretty much all other modern open world engines do that, including the Zelda engine on Switch. The only thing you have to load into there is shrines. Now, sure, the level of detail is much lower in that game, but the Switch is ancient hardware without anything like the fast storage the Xbox Series consoles have.
That's not specifically about space exploration, but given how everything is sectioned off even when on a planet it definitely seems like it's an engine limitation rather than them not wanting to do it that way. If they could I'm sure they would have, but it would probably require rebuilding the entire core of their engine from the ground up.
Mr Reasonable
Completely Unreasonable
Why are you responding to me and stalking me instead of playing said game?
"I may be totally unhinged but you looked at my profile"
Lokaum D+
Member
you can aways FLY around a planet, imagine having the ability to FLY your space ship around the whole planet on a space game
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RoboFu
One of the green rats
When I first went to new antlantis I had no idea you could go outside the city. Lol
And then after that I realized you could land anywhere on planets.
Lokaum D+
Member
its not like "we can do large worlds", its more like " our procedural tech can do large and empty worlds cause we dont want to handcraft this shit"
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