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Chrono Cross Retrospective: What do you think of it now?

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I finished Chrono Cross for about the 14th time just the other day, and while I still very much enjoy the game and consider it one of my favorites, I think that it could be vastly improved in many different ways. I also understand the plot (and the faults in it) more than I had before, but heavy research at the Chrono Compendium probably helped a lot for that. And this was the first time I had played Chrono Cross since having played and completed Chrono Trigger, so I could more see why people would be angry and/or disappointed with it. What follows is not really a review, but rather my thoughts on why CC has the reputation that it does, and why I think people might have enjoyed or disliked it.



The Bad
To get this out of the way, the game is almost nothing like it's predecessor, for one. This really isn't a bad thing, but I'm sure a lot of people were hoping for more of a continuation of CT's events, rather than a new story with a new cast and location. For most of the game it has little to nothing to do with CT beyond a few namedrops, and what connections it does have seem to be inconsistent with how things were in CT (Porre, for instance). While what CC has to do with CT is explained more as the game goes on, those explanations too have seemingly shaky foundations, and I'm sure the eventual revelations concerning the original cast's fates were met with a fair bit of dislike and outrage, to say the least.

On that note, the plot of Chrono Cross (though I still consider the story itself to be rather good) is horribly explained and the plot's pacing was ridiculously awful. A good amount of time would go by with little to no story sequences, and then there would be huge walls of text and insane amounts of exposition with details and events hastily explained and then left to never be spoken of again (Almost all of disc 2 was particularly bad in that aspect). The fact that the ending
explains absolutely nothing of what happens in the game's aftermath (though it may have been planned for Chrono Break, to be honest)
is also particularly grating.

Also a very big departure from CT was the battle system, which also had quite a bit of flaws, I now realize. Whereas CT's combat was fast and managed to be simple while still maintaining a sense of depth, CC's was a bit slower and portrayed itself as being more of a strategic battle system (which is a bit indicative of the two games' differences as a whole, really). The main problem with CC's battle system was that even though it tried to come off as complex and strategic, the game was so easy, and the depth of the battle system's workings so unexplored, that you never really did anything with the strategy.

Really, battles were that you would either go Weak>Fierce>Fierce, or Weak>Strong>Fierce>Element if you needed to heal. The effects of Elements were usually so inadequate for their cost that they were simply impractical to use, especially when you could unleash a full combo with the same amount of stamina and deal more three times more damage than you would've with an Element. And fill your Element Grids with healing Elements and you were unbeatable. How unbalanced the game was (in just about every aspect of the battles) was really disappointing, mostly because the design of it's leveling system made it possible for the game to have been almost perfectly balanced.

Another issue was the micromanagement required for Elements. With the huge cast of 45 characters, and individually designed Element Grids for each of them, changing characters was a gigantic pain. Even if you select "Auto Allocate", the game wasn't very smart with the process and would yield poor results more often tha not. The Element Grid sounds like a cool concept, but the excessive and clunky micromanagement, combined with the overall uselessness of most Elements, just made it more of an inconvenience than anything else, especially with the lack of an option to save grid arrangements for later use if you take a character out of your party or something like that.

On the subject of the cast and party, CC has an enormous cast of characters as previously stated; 45 all together. I don't know how many people consider a cast being this size to be a good thing, though. A lot of the characters are very similar to one another, which is to be expected with so many. The cast is comprised of mostly stereotypes and character development for these people is generally considered to be far too sparse. Few characters really stand out among them all, and the decision of your party will usually just be the ones whose designs you like the most. Or Serge, Kid, and Glenn, like me.



The Good
Okay, I think I've spent enough time stressing all of CC's failings. I don't mean to seem like I hate this game, as said before it is one of my favorite games (Though that may seems surprising considering all the things I've slighted against it). CC has a lot of good things too, and it's story and battle system can make for some really fun experiences despite their issues. The game really comes together whilst you're playing it, and a lot of the flaws can be overlooked for what it does offer. So now I'd like to point out and remind people of the many things Chrono Cross did get right.

For one, the game was absolutely gorgeous for it's time. The pre-rendered backgrounds were amazing, full of lush colors and intricate designs, making the areas feel alive and real while still managing to be well-designed from a gameplay perspective, with just a few exceptions. In battle, characters and enemies had amazingly detailed and good-looking models, and they all had a large number of unique animations. You can really tell how much effort was put into all of that, especially with every one of the 45 playable characters. The graphics in the game were just outstanding by PS1 standards, and I think it still manages to hold up fairly well to this to day.

Also outstanding was the game's soundtrack. It's still held by many (me included) as one of the greatest OSTs of any video game ever made. Each piece perfectly conveys the mood and setting of the scene, and it contains delightful remixes of many of CT's signature songs in addition to the huge amount of original songs it has. Seriously, words can't convey how amazing the music is. Definitely the best point of the game, bar none. Here's some of my personal favorites:
Time's Scar
Dreamwatch of Time
Home Arni Village
Plains of Time
Dreams of the Shore Near Another World
Another Termina
Star-Stealing Girl
People Imprisoned By Destiny
Quitting the Body
Dragon God
Radical Dreamers

...And many, many more. Seriously, the soundtrack is beautiful. Huge spectrum of songs which all feel so unique and magnificently compliment the game.

While there were many flaws in the game's story and gameplay, they also had some good points. Once you moved past how horribly paced it was and how the points of plot exposition had confusing explanations that were badly worded and made things exceedingly hard to understand, I felt the story itself was rather good for JRPG standards, be them as they may. If you searched hard enough, reasons and justifications for mostly all of the story's events can be discovered and understood. There were a lot of small things connecting everything together, and it was rather satisfying once you figured everything out, though the game would not give you that unless you tried with all your might.

And I have to say, despite the many complaints about the lack of development for many of the game's characters, they did a good job considering it's size. It may have benefited from simply having a smaller cast, but with what it was, I felt it did fine. I think the main cause of people's issues about the lack of development for the characters was that you only get as much development as you go for. If you leave a character out of your party, you're probably not gonna hear from them again. Most of the characters only got development if you actively brought them along in your party and tried to seek out things related to them, and even then, the game didn't make a big deal out of the development.

True, a good deal of characters were simply devoid of any development whatsoever, or even a reason for participating in the quest. But there were also some who got a surprisingly good deal of development, most notably the Acacians and those related to them. Outside of the main cast, Karsh, Fargo, and Nikki are some of the most notable. Starky gets a fair deal too. What's more, Viper and (surprisingly) Pierre also get some rather big development, but they are mainly dealt with in two or three simple text boxes. Viper's realization of him failing as a ruler, and Pierre's acceptance of himself being a disgrace of a hero, as well as his hopes to truly earn such a status. However, most people don't see these things. I only just saw them on my last playthrough.

It may seem a bit strange to have character development hidden away like this, but maybe we're just used to how most JRPGs (and games in general) like to throw any semblance of character development into our face at any chance they get. I'm not saying the examples listed are really great and subtle cases of character development. It's mostly fairly standard, really. And like I said before, there are characters without the faintest trace of any development (thought sometimes it was planned, but had to be cut out for various reasons, like Guile and Zoah). I'm just saying there's more of it than most people think.

Moving on to what CC got right, gameplay-wise, I still consider the leveling system to be the best of any RPG. By having you get major stat boosts only by defeating bosses, it completely got rid of grinding, and enabled the battles to be balanced exactly to the developer's intentions at all times. But the fact of the matter is that the game was ridiculously easy outside of three or four boss fights. It's disappointing, but it was still a fantastic method of leveling that let me play through the game exactly how I wanted without ever having being underpowered or overpowered. Well, more overpowered.

Also rather revolutionary was that you could automatically heal after every battle. At the end of a fight, you'd have the option to use what Elements you had charged by the end of the fight in order to replenish the party's HP without having to go into the menu and manually do it. It's a bit surprising that they have this option which cuts out so much micromanagement when the rest of the game's systems were so sadly plagued with it. The World Ends With You and Final Fantasy XIII both took this concept a bit further to just automatically restore your health at the end of each fight, and I think both games were better off for it.

And while most of the battle system went unused, it certainly had a lot of depth to it. The Field Effect, Stamina Points, Element Grid, Double & Triple Techs (Sparse as they may be)...All together, they made a very deep system that sadly never saw it's full potential. Battles could easily be passed through without worrying about half of the system's inner workings. But during some of the few battles which were actually difficult, you could catch a brief glimpse of what could be accomplished through a better usage of the battle system. It had the potential to be really great.



The Result
All-in-all, Chrono Cross is still a pretty fun game to this day. It had a lot of complex systems which were sadly underused, and it had a good deal of problems with it's storytelling and characterization which drastically hampered an otherwise fine story. It greatly distanced itself from Chrono Trigger, but was also deeply tied to it. It tried to live up to what many consider one of the greatest RPGs of all time, which was designed by an almost legendary team of developers. And I personally think it succeeded, but I now have a better understanding of why people wouldn't agree.

To be honest, I still prefer CC over CT despite the many flaws CC has. One more thing is that CC had a lot less to work with than CT, and the only main people returning from the original team were Masato Kato and Yasunori Mitsuda. And IIRC, CC had some bad budget issues, leading to a fair deal of last-minute changes and the inability to include stuff that they had planned, but even though I'm not sure to what extent this affected the overall game, I wonder what it would have been like if they had been given more time and money to work with.

Anyway, what do you people think of Chrono Cross nowadays? What did you like about it, what did you dislike, how do you think it could be improved, etc.? I'm interested as to what people think of when they remember Chrono Cross.
 

Talon

Member
It's a messy, bloated game that was too ambitious without the budget to match it that managed to be beautiful with a rewarding combat system that deserves to be revisited.

And DAT MUSIC.
 

BocoDragon

or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
I LOVE the story. I think the way in which it ties into Chrono Trigger is pretty brilliant... the way I understand the story is that defeating Lavos in CT affected the far future, which affected the PAST, which affected the present.... So in some sense Chrono Cross is set in an alternative timeline to Trigger even though it's the same world and continuity.

:p

But I hated how the 40-something characters were all throwaways who really couldn't add much to the plot. I would have prefered a Trigger-style cast of 6, or so, with real personalities and roles in the story.

I liked the battle system, and the music is some of the best in gaming history.
 

Salsa

Member
Forkball said:
Good game except for the extremely shitty connection to Chrono Trigger.

Yeah there was no need for that.

Still liked it though, but Trigger remains king. It has even aged better than Cross.
 

Tigel

Member
Best soundtrack ever!
I never got past the first disc because I didn't like the combat system, at all.
 

B.K.

Member
Horrible game. It completely ruined the Chrono universe. I never was a fan of the soundtrack either. Other than the few Chrono Trigger remixes, I thought the soundtrack was Mitsuda's weakest so far.
 
The game itself is fine, but what the narrative does to the cast of Chrono Trigger is horrendous.
Every single character gets screwed over except Ayla. ;_;
 
RustyNails said:
Best fucking intro music of all time. Rest of the soundtrack was incredible as well. A really memorable game overall.

04_fistbumpjpg.jpeg


FUCKING TRUTH!! Scars of Time is still one of the most amazing pieces that anyone in Square, fuck that anyone has ever composed in videogaming. Haters be damned to being repeatedly exposed to
 
Great game, I absolutely loved it. And I agree with most of your points.

The cast is pretty weak on most ends, but like you said, there are sort of side-quests where you can see development for characters if you are willing to. And like you said, if you see the good ones, you can actually end up really liking the cast. Happened with me!

The battle system, every time I play Chrono Cross, I feel like was designed for people who are not really into jRPGs all together. Like, the battle system warrants you ways to guarantee that you don't have to grind and you don't run out of stock of items. You can actually get through the game for quite a while without using consumables.

The only problem with that? At some point in the game you're too strong for most of your regular enemies, and going through battles where you don't gain practically anything from the outcome really doesn't motivate you playing through the game.
 
Game was average. Not bad per se, but a terrible follow up to Chrono Trigger.

In terms of the "bad", the singular glaring weakness of the game is the size of the cast and how the game handles them. Most of the cast has little more to add to the plot than the same lines repeated in a funny accent.

Suikoden 1 and 2 (also on the PSX, I won't get into the PS2 sequels) are a much, much better example of how to implement the cast of thousands idea.
 
I still consider my favorite/defacto PS1 RPG. I played Cross in its entirety when I heard about Chrono Trigger afterwards. I feel that Chrono Cross on its own merits alone is well done.

I'll admit the large roster of characters felt underwhelming without tons of focus on their stories. I felt this was fine as you got enough as to why they wanted to join you.

I can always comeback to this game whenever at any time. When the plot direction didn't chug it was flowing nicely.

The highlights were when the game has you fight the dragons & after. Favorite RPG to this day overall? I'd say so.
 

hateradio

The Most Dangerous Yes Man
The problems didn't bother me, and the pacing wasn't bothersome although I would have liked it to be longer. Still, I liked the battle system, the music, the gameplay, and some of the characters and their English accents. It's one of my favorite games to date.
 

StuBurns

Banned
It was good, unfortunately it was the sequel to what was, and still is the best JRPG ever made, so it seemed far weaker than it was.
 

BocoDragon

or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Gunloc said:
The game itself is fine, but what the narrative does to the cast of Chrono Trigger is horrendous.
Every single character gets screwed over except Ayla. ;_;
I know that
Lucca is set to die in a fire a long while after the events of Trigger... which personally I don't mind. It wasn't a cheap death... it was long after the events of Trigger and she had established an orphanage. She lived her life and made a postivie impact on the world.

And Robo is set to die in the FAR future after living a long life as a robot and then as part of a computer program within Chronopolis, which had then been flung into the far past and existed for a few more thousand years. He also worked on that desert for 100s of years in CT! When Robo dies, he will have been thousands of years old. Again I wouldn't say it's a life cut short. :lol

But the rest of the cast? Someone refresh my memory on this. I don't know that they did get screwed.
Yes, for a time there was the insinuation that they had been phased out of existance as a result of timeline tinkering... or something... I don't remember. Didn't Serge fix this?
I honestly can't remember.
 
Angelus Errare said:
FUCKING TRUTH!! Scars of Time is still one of the most amazing pieces that anyone in Square, fuck that anyone has ever composed in videogaming. Haters be damned to being repeatedly exposed to
I miss old school squaresoft :(
 

~Kinggi~

Banned
I thought the game was amazing. Then i saw all the hate from all the people saying it was crap and proceeded to back away slowly.

yous all fuckin crazy
 
Really hated what they did to the original cast and how all the characters that can join you have almost no story. But I thought the battle system was cool and visuals were pretty good when it came out.
 

LiquidMetal14

hide your water-based mammals
acidspunk said:
The soundtrack is amazing.
First and foremost. Especially Jellyfish Sea. I loved this RPG to death.

I remember how many characters there were and how each of them said something different to various scenarios. And I loved how the order was random. Even in the beginning.
 
BocoDragon said:
I know that
Lucca is set to die in a fire a long while after the events of Trigger... which personally I don't mind. It wasn't a cheap death... it was long after the events of Trigger and she had established an orphanage. She lived her life and made a postivie impact on the world.

And Robo is set to die in the FAR future after living a long life as a robot and then as part of a computer program within Chronopolis, which had then been flung into the far past and existed for a few more thousand years. He also worked on that desert for 100s of years in CT! When Robo dies, he will have been thousands of years old. Again I wouldn't say it's a life cut short. :lol

But the rest of the cast? Someone refresh my memory on this. I don't know that they did get screwed.
Yes, for a time there was the insinuation that they had been phased out of existance as a result of timeline tinkering... or something... I don't remember. Didn't Serge fix this?
I honestly can't remember.
Regarding Crono and Marle,
it was never really confirmed what happened to them. Porre was led by Dalton and overthrew Guardia, but they never say anything specifically about their fates, and the "ghost children" aren't confirmed as actual ghosts either, so nobody really knows.
 

rhino4evr

Member
This game cane out while I was in college and my roomate had a moded playstation that would not recognize "disc 2" when I was told to switch discs. The copy of the game was legit, but it needed a boot disc everytime a disc was played. So I never finished it. :(
 

LiquidMetal14

hide your water-based mammals
I should also mention the classic part of the game in which you go to
Marle's house from Chrono Trigger
.
 
CC is the ultimate example of a video game tragedy if there is such a thing.

I'm convinced if it was called something else and didn't have the few minor references to CT it would've been remembered as a classic by purists but forgotten by the mainstream, much like many of the PS1 era RPGs are. In that sense, the CT association is both a gift and a curse.

Anyway, from a critical perspective CC is a terrific game overall. Pacing problems aside (Anyone know if this game was rushed through development at any point?) the game's story was incredible. The core characters, Serge and Kid were among the best developed during the whole late 90s RPG boom. The music was breathtaking and the battle system you either loved or thought was meh. I loved it. I've played through it several times and have fond memories of it. Other than maybe FFVII and VIII, it is the game I have most read about, discussed, and dissected in my head so to me that's saying something.

I have spent countless hours reading about the proposed plans for the Chrono series: Why Break was scrapped, Kato's role behind the scenes, etc. I realize that it's hard to get the same team back together but here's gotta be some legitimate reason why the series just fell off the face of the earth besides the "oh it doesn't sell" excuse.
 
One of my favorite games ever. Not on par with CT but few games are. I still wish Square would revisit the Chrono universe. Still a lot of things I'm curious about. If they ever do decide to do another one, I hope they'd get Kato back to do the story.
 
BocoDragon said:
I know that
Lucca is set to die in a fire a long while after the events of Trigger... which personally I don't mind. It wasn't a cheap death... it was long after the events of Trigger and she had established an orphanage. She lived her life and made a postivie impact on the world.

And Robo is set to die in the FAR future after living a long life as a robot and then as part of a computer program within Chronopolis, which had then been flung into the far past and existed for a few more thousand years. He also worked on that desert for 100s of years in CT! When Robo dies, he will have been thousands of years old. Again I wouldn't say it's a life cut short. :lol

But the rest of the cast? Someone refresh my memory on this. I don't know that they did get screwed.
Yes, for a time there was the insinuation that they had been phased out of existance as a result of timeline tinkering... or something... I don't remember. Didn't Serge fix this?
I honestly can't remember.
Re: Lucca & Robo. I understand that their deaths happen far after Chrono Trigger, but I don't think the length of their life negates the cruelty of their deaths. (Robo being used to create a evil supercomputer is especially harsh.)

Crono & Marle's fate is cloudy, but the fact that they may have been disposed of by Dalton of all people is an awful thought.

Add to that Magus's memory loss and Frog's eternal loneliness/curse (depending on which ending is canon) and that equals a whole lot of sucky outcomes for our CT heroes. Even Ayla doesn't fair that well, with her world being plunged into an ice age.

You would think that with a storyline all about time travel used to stop horrible events, something could be done to prevent all these awful fates.
 

manueldelalas

Time Traveler
The game is amazing and is one of the best RPGs ever made, that said, the game has a few set of problems:

-The story is a fucking mess (it's something like this: every time you make a choice, an alternate universe forms reflecting both of your choices (apparently you can only choose from 2); and the universe that reflects the less probable choice, gets deleted in favor of the other universe. But when Serge (main character) is debating between life and death, apparently he has exactly a 50-50 chance of survival, so there are two parallel universes created that can coexist with each other, and apparently in each universe the people makes the exact opposite choice than in the other (apparently, after the Serge thing, there is no more creation of universes, and choices end up in either universe), and after that it's a massive fuck up mixed with some Chrono Trigger stuff.

-Too many characters, and that means too many useless characters and too many undeveloped characters.

-You can't explore the outside world, there is only an island, so that's disappointing; in CT you travelled through the whole world, so the scope of that game was much bigger.

-Doesn't help that the final boss is basically slapped in there (anyone played Starfox Adventures?)

-Too many endings to count (yeah it was fun in CT, but that game had "only" 8 or 9 endings)

But it did some really good things:

- New game+ was awesome, you could speed up the whole game, skip story, awesome side quests, etc. It was really great.

- The music, OMG.

etc.

IMO there hasn't been a jRPG better than Chrono Cross since it was released.
 

BocoDragon

or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
I also loved the ending with the live action scenes. I swear I've never heard anyone say anything positive about it, but I thought it was beautiful. Yeah, I said it.

Sure,
Schala was absorbed into Lavos and was ultimately destroyed along with it...
but in the nature of these stories, there were always alternate timelines- including our own timeline.
Schala/Kid lives on in our world, along with Serge, and in this reality they can be together
. That's sweet, dammit!

ItWasMeantToBe19 said:
Regarding Crono and Marle,
it was never really confirmed what happened to them. Porre was led by Dalton and overthrew Guardia, but they never say anything specifically about their fates, and the "ghost children" aren't confirmed as actual ghosts either, so nobody really knows.
The dialogue of the
"ghost children" was something about Serge having led them to their fate... something to do with the split timelines or whatever? (this is my 10 year old memory now :p) I always interpreted that as Chrono and crew not being "dead", but having been written out of history, but presumably restored after Serge's actions?
I know my memory is vague on this, but I believe the game was vague itself :p

Gunloc said:
You would think that with a storyline all about time travel used to stop horrible events, something could be done to prevent all these awful fates.
Chrono Break! :D
 
as a sequel to CT I thought it was awful, I didnt even get thru most of it. Did all the same team make it, or was it like some team just took the license and made a game?



did they ever say that

guile is magus? I remember when CC came out it was like well in radical dreamers he was, but since it wasnt out in america he technically isnt him, and then post CT DS it might be him now? which of course doesnt matter since CC was made in a time when he WASNT supposed to be him lol. In my old high school jrpg loving what if days, I always thought if he had done a "keyser soze" type reveal with the magus theme slowly starting to play then fucking up everything hardcore, would have been SO awesome :lol
 
BocoDragon said:
But the rest of the cast? Someone refresh my memory on this. I don't know that they did get screwed. I honestly can't remember.

Magus is that blue haired magician you can get in your party. His backstory was cut from the game so the DS version of Chrono Trigger retconned it so that he lost his memories.
 

manueldelalas

Time Traveler
ZombieSupaStar said:
as a sequel to CT I thought it was awful, I didnt even get thru most of it. Did all the same team make it, or was it like some team just took the license and made a game?
No Horii =(

CT was a sort of an all stars RPG including creators of Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy, Chrono Cross wasn't.
 

BocoDragon

or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
ZombieSupaStar said:
as a sequel to CT I thought it was awful, I didnt even get thru most of it. Did all the same team make it, or was it like some team just took the license and made a game?
It wasn't the same Square + Enix dream team... but the main scenario designer of CT, Masato Kato, completely designed the story for CC, so storywise it was a direct sequel from the mind of the original creator.

If you think about it... a sequel from another team wouldn't dare veer so far away from the original design.
 
BocoDragon said:
It wasn't the same Square + Enix dream team... but the main scenario designer of CT, Masato Kato, completely designed the story for CC, so storywise it was a direct sequel from the mind of the original creator.

If you think about it... a sequel from another team wouldn't dare veer so far away from the original design.

is there anywhere I can read up on how much of CT is in CC? I honsetly was offput by about the whole game in CC (i think i quit at like some...ghost ship? it was shortly after sneaking into some guys villa if I remember correctly, im guessing I was still early on though?) its been like 10 years since I played it I should throw it back in my ps3 (I still have it along with unplayed suikoden 2 :lol )
 
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