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[poppabk]

Study (26th October 2021): "Comprehensive investigations revealed consistent pathophysiological alterations after vaccination with COVID-19 vaccines"

Comprehensive investigations revealed consistent pathophysiological alterations after vaccination with COVID-19 vaccines - Cell Discovery

Large-scale COVID-19 vaccinations are currently underway in many countries in response to the COVID-19 pandemic. Here, we report, besides generation of neutralizing antibodies, consistent alterations in hemoglobin A1c, serum sodium and potassium levels, coagulation profiles, and renal functions...

www.nature.com

They used a chinese vaccine, but they all contain unmodified spike S1 protein from the virus, just like any mRNA vaccine. This is not the first study to come to these conclusions. It is probably only a matter of short- or medium-term effects, but the COVID-19 vaccination does not come without costs.

It's the same effects seen after a COVID infection though, so you are still a lot better off getting the vaccine than COVID and at this point it is time to accept that at some point you will either get the vaccine or COVID or both.

 

[12Goblins]

Covid-19 deaths pass five million worldwide

Vaccines have slowed the death rate, but officials warn of worrying rises in some countries.

www.bbc.com

 

[betrayal]

It's the same effects seen after a COVID infection though, so you are still a lot better off getting the vaccine than COVID and at this point it is time to accept that at some point you will either get the vaccine or COVID or both.

Long-term studies are still needed to see how long these vaccine-induced effects last. But I agree that the results of the study show that the vaccination triggers similar, but however not identical, processes as the infection itself.

 

[Guileless]

 

[Rentahamster]

Having faith doesn’t mean your critical falcuties are damaged. What a load.

It means that in regarding the most important question facing humanity, someone chooses to believe not based on any tangible evidence, but merely because it makes them feel good. It's the ultimate feelings over facts, and while for some people it is the only thing in their life that they make this exception for, it is regardless a mental precedent of willingly disregarding critical thinking skills in favor of obedience and dogma.

Agreed!

"Faith is part and parcel of my life as an intellectual and a scientist. I believe in the theory of gravitational attraction, why? Because I have evidence for it. I believe my wife loves me, why? Because I have evidence for it. And, my Christian faith consists, not in faith as a leap into the unknown, it is [an] evidence-based commitment - otherwise, I wouldn't be remotely interested in Christianity." (Professor of Mathematics at Oxford University John Lennox)

Not according to Hebrews 11.

 

[MachRc]

LOL I can only laugh at how ingenious and communist this is at the same time.

 

[Rentahamster]

They used a chinese vaccine, but they all contain unmodified spike S1 protein from the virus, just like any mRNA vaccine.

No, the mRNA vaccines available in the USA encode for a modified spike protein that locks it in the prefusion state in order to generate a better immune response from the body as well as probably being more benign.



Kudos to the University of Texas at Austin for their help in this research.

This is not the first study to come to these conclusions. It is probably only a matter of short- or medium-term effects, but the COVID-19 vaccination does not come without costs.

Everything we do in life has a cost, and the cost of this vaccine is insignificant compared to the cost of COVID19.

 

[Physiognomonics]

No, the mRNA vaccines available in the USA encode for a modified spike protein that locks it in the prefusion state in order to generate a better immune response from the body as well as probably being more benign.



Kudos to the University of Texas at Austin for their help in this research.



Everything we do in life has a cost, and the cost of this vaccine is insignificant compared to the cost of COVID19.

Sure it does work (the immune response and temporary protection, a few months according to some studies) but the problem is that the spike protein they use in the vaccine is very active. Usually in a vaccine you use parts of the virus that are inactive and harmless. This is not the case here as the spike protein is what causing the most problems with that virus.

Hopefully they'll use some inactive virus parts in future vaccines.

 

[Rentahamster]

the problem is that the spike protein they use in the vaccine is very active.

One can speculate, but there's no proof to show that this is the case. "Very active" isn't a specific quality. What do you mean by that?

Usually in a vaccine you use parts of the virus that are inactive and harmless.

Mostly true. There is always some risk of harm but it's usually miniscule. This is also true of the mRNA vaccines. The spike protein IS a part of the virus, and it's proven to be mostly harmless because out of the hundreds of millions of people who've taken it, hardly anyone experienced severe illness from it. I'm still not sure what you mean by "active" or "inactive", but it's locked in its prefusion state, and there is no "rest of the coronavirus" to contribute to the rest of the steps that involve viruses harming your cells. There might be other pathways to injury, but the data shows that the vaccines are clinically safe.

This is not the case here as the spike protein is what causing the most problems with that virus.

What's not the case here? The spike protein allows SARSCOV2 to penetrate your cell membrane. It's one of many factors that make SARSCOV2 dangerous. I'm not sure what your point is with this sentence.

Hopefully they'll use some inactive virus parts in future vaccines.

The spike protein that is generated from the mRNA vaccines are inactive (if you mean that there's no rest of the virus to actually make you sick) virus parts.

 

[ntropy]

 

[ManaByte]

Careful, Twitter, Fb,and Insta are going to start banning people using that phrase.

 

[Rentahamster]

I hope she gets better soon.

I also hope she gets properly educated about what the actual facts surrounding the situation are.

 

[xellos2099alpha]

we have so much data about these vaccines. people just don't care, they want to believe what they want to believe, however irrational.

if you are still vaccine hesitant at this point, you are simply being willfully ignorant. I say this as someone who is not vaccinated

And people completel ignore that peopel actually can die from this and drug maker cannot be legally be responisble for it

 

[SF Kosmo]

Maybe we can just put them in camps? Would that be acceptable to you?

Please stop comparing someone giving you life saving medicine to the Holocaust. Go home, you are drunk on victimhood.

 

[Dr.Guru of Peru]

not worth it

 

[funkygunther]

And people completel ignore that peopel actually can die from this and drug maker cannot be legally be responisble for it

Also you:

Risk of death is fien but someone does it out of thier free will. Now if it is mandated, it becoem an issue

 

[BadBurger]

"My body, my choice. Natural immunity." <insert endless embarrassingly anti-science boomer memes here>

*gets sicks, races to the ER*

"Give me the experimental antibody treatment stat! Give me an ICU bed! Save me science!"

We're already seeing this again within our healthcare network as cases slowly creep up while autumn descends upon us. So glad I was able to take a total of one month of vacation off throughout November and December. I am not working myself to the bone again for these anti-vaxxers. Stay home and take your vitamins and soak in them prayers instead. Don't be anti-science only when it serves you. Stay home and stick to your convictions.

 

[MisterFalcon]

Don't forget "Big Pharma will make us take $20 booster shots every year !"

*gets sick, spends three weeks on ventilator, making Big Pharma several thousand every day"

 

[FunkMiller]

Careful, Twitter, Fb,and Insta are going to start banning people using that phrase.

The perfect sum up of this stupid cunt:

 

[betrayal]

Unfortunately, she is not wrong about that. It is obvious that a significant number of infections is caused by vaccinated people. In some countries, the number of infected people is significantly higher than last year, despite vaccination rates of 60-70% or higher.

Here in Germany, there are now many events for which you have to be vaccinated or have recovered from an infection. A negative test result is no longer enough. Each of these events were in retrospect (super-)spreader events.

Because fully vaccinated people often get sick without symptoms but can still pass on the virus, they pose an enormous risk especially to all high-risk patients, whether they are vaccinated or not. The chance that a person who currently tests negative will infect other people is much lower. There was already another nursing home here this week with 14 people dead, which is terrible, even though everyone was vaccinated. Anyone who wanted to visit these people did not have to be tested negative as long as they were vaccinated, which is a horrible oversight.

Of course, vaccination is still enormously important, especially for high-risk patients. But pretending that vaccinated people are not very contagious will cause an enormous amount of harm and suffering, because even if you're fully vaccinated there's a real chance it will not save you if you have multiple pre-conditions and/or you're 80+.

 

[Rentahamster]

Unfortunately, she is not wrong about that.

The thing is, she's being misleading by stating a partial fact and leaving out the greater context. She's trying to downplay the importance of vaccines by making a false equivalence that since vaccinated people are also able to get infected too, that it is ineffective. This is not arguing in good faith. This doesn't mean that vaccines are ineffective or not important, like what Kristy is trying to imply.

It is obvious that a significant number of infections is caused by vaccinated people.

It is also obvious that this number is much smaller per capita than the number of infections caused and contracted by unvaccinated people. Failing to add that point creates a misleading narrative that is not reflective of reality. This doesn't mean that vaccines are ineffective or not important, like what Kristy is trying to imply.

In some countries, the number of infected people is significantly higher than last year, despite vaccination rates of 60-70% or higher.

This is mainly because of the delta variant, which is much more contagious than the previous versions of SARSCOV2. This doesn't mean that vaccines are ineffective or not important, like what Kristy is trying to imply.

Here in Germany, there are now many events for which you have to be vaccinated or have recovered from an infection. A negative test result is no longer enough. Each of these events were in retrospect (super-)spreader events.

Because fully vaccinated people often get sick without symptoms but can still pass on the virus, they pose an enormous risk especially to all high-risk patients, whether they are vaccinated or not. The chance that a person who currently tests negative will infect other people is much lower. There was already another nursing home here this week with 14 people dead, which is terrible, even though everyone was vaccinated. Anyone who wanted to visit these people did not have to be tested negative as long as they were vaccinated, which is a horrible oversight.

That has nothing to do with the effectiveness or importance of vaccines. That is a problem with their screening protocol, not a problem with vaccines. This doesn't mean that vaccines are ineffective or not important, like what Kristy is trying to imply. Your anecdotes are not relevant and it is an undeniable fact that millions of lives have been saved because of the vaccines, and millions more will be saved if more people would get it.

Of course, vaccination is still enormously important, especially for high-risk patients.

I'm glad you agree.

But pretending that vaccinated people are not very contagious

Pretending?

Vaccinated people are potentially contagious if infected. This doesn't mean that vaccines are ineffective or not important, like what Kristy is trying to imply. Vaccinated people are less likely to get infected in the first place and clear the virus faster than unvaccinated people. Downplaying this fact by merely stating "vaccinated people are contagious too" while omitting the relevant context is misleading.

But pretending that vaccinated people are not very contagious will cause an enormous amount of harm and suffering, because even if you're fully vaccinated there's a real chance it will not save you if you have multiple pre-conditions and/or you're 80+.

Bad strawman argument. The more people get vaccinated the safer everyone will be overall. In your nursing home incident, imagine if 100% of the population were vaccinated. Does that change the odds at all of those 14 elderly people dying? No one's pretending that vaccinations are 100% effective. Great pains are taken to convey this nuance, and it's been repeated countless times in this very thread, so if anyone needs to stop pretending, you should stop pretending that we aren't aware of this fact.

 

[Chaplain]

 

[FunkMiller]

The thing is, she's being misleading by stating a partial fact and leaving out the greater context. She's trying to downplay the importance of vaccines by making a false equivalence that since vaccinated people are also able to get infected too, that it is ineffective. This is not arguing in good faith. This doesn't mean that vaccines are ineffective or not important, like what Kristy is trying to imply.


It is also obvious that this number is much smaller per capita than the number of infections caused and contracted by unvaccinated people. Failing to add that point creates a misleading narrative that is not reflective of reality. This doesn't mean that vaccines are ineffective or not important, like what Kristy is trying to imply.


This is mainly because of the delta variant, which is much more contagious than the previous versions of SARSCOV2. This doesn't mean that vaccines are ineffective or not important, like what Kristy is trying to imply.


That has nothing to do with the effectiveness or importance of vaccines. That is a problem with their screening protocol, not a problem with vaccines. This doesn't mean that vaccines are ineffective or not important, like what Kristy is trying to imply. Your anecdotes are not relevant and it is an undeniable fact that millions of lives have been saved because of the vaccines, and millions more will be saved if more people would get it.


I'm glad you agree.


Pretending?

Vaccinated people are potentially contagious if infected. This doesn't mean that vaccines are ineffective or not important, like what Kristy is trying to imply. Vaccinated people are less likely to get infected in the first place and clear the virus faster than unvaccinated people. Downplaying this fact by merely stating "vaccinated people are contagious too" while omitting the relevant context is misleading.


Bad strawman argument. The more people get vaccinated the safer everyone will be overall. In your nursing home incident, imagine if 100% of the population were vaccinated. Does that change the odds at all of those 14 elderly people dying? No one's pretending that vaccinations are 100% effective. Great pains are taken to convey this nuance, and it's been repeated countless times in this very thread, so if anyone needs to stop pretending, you should stop pretending that we aren't aware of this fact.

Your endless ability to provide coherent and rational arguments against anti-vaxxers, without succumbing to the very understandable desire to rip into them, is highly admirable my friend You've probably saved hot headed idiots like me from many a temporary ban

 

[funkygunther]

Rentahamster is an asset to this thread

 

[SF Kosmo]

Children under 12 probably account for like 15 of that 20% unvaccinated. And their death rates (which are usually proportional to hospitalization rates) aren't very high either. I'm guessing this is more to do with large parts of the state being underserved in terms of hospitals already.

 

[QSD]

Rentahamster is an asset to this thread

He certainly has an unrodentlike level of patience

(in b4 someone tells me hamsters are actually the most patient animals on the planet)

 

[poppabk]

Unfortunately, she is not wrong about that. It is obvious that a significant number of infections is caused by vaccinated people. In some countries, the number of infected people is significantly higher than last year, despite vaccination rates of 60-70% or higher.

Here in Germany, there are now many events for which you have to be vaccinated or have recovered from an infection. A negative test result is no longer enough. Each of these events were in retrospect (super-)spreader events.

Because fully vaccinated people often get sick without symptoms but can still pass on the virus, they pose an enormous risk especially to all high-risk patients, whether they are vaccinated or not. The chance that a person who currently tests negative will infect other people is much lower. There was already another nursing home here this week with 14 people dead, which is terrible, even though everyone was vaccinated. Anyone who wanted to visit these people did not have to be tested negative as long as they were vaccinated, which is a horrible oversight.

Of course, vaccination is still enormously important, especially for high-risk patients. But pretending that vaccinated people are not very contagious will cause an enormous amount of harm and suffering, because even if you're fully vaccinated there's a real chance it will not save you if you have multiple pre-conditions and/or you're 80+.

Requiring everyone get tested on a weekly basis is an extremely tall order unfortunately. The reduction in the danger and propagation of the virus we can achieve through vaccination is as good as it is going to get without further extending the massive disruptions to people's lives.

 

[betrayal]

It is also obvious that this number is much smaller per capita than the number of infections caused and contracted by unvaccinated people. Failing to add that point creates a misleading narrative that is not reflective of reality. This doesn't mean that vaccines are ineffective or not important, like what Kristy is trying to imply.

Is there any data to support this? Statistics such as incidences etc. are not reliable, since vaccinated persons are no longer tested (unless they become ill with symptoms). The same applies to hospitalizations. Just because vaccinated people are very well protected against severe disease does not mean that fewer vaccinated people get infected compared to unvaccinated people. And for god's sake, please don't copy paste this stupid out-of-context screen cap again, which doesn't apply to the current real world anymore (we have way higher vaccination rates now).

It is quite clear that we do not know the number of infected vaccinated people because, as I said, they are rarely tested and often have no or very mild symptoms. But they can still spread the virus.

This is mainly because of the delta variant, which is much more contagious than the previous versions of SARSCOV2. This doesn't mean that vaccines are ineffective or not important, like what Kristy is trying to imply.

True.

I don't want to defend anyone, but people need to learn that everything is not always black or white. Even a stupid person can say objectively correct things.

That has nothing to do with the effectiveness or importance of vaccines. That is a problem with their screening protocol, not a problem with vaccines. This doesn't mean that vaccines are ineffective or not important, like what Kristy is trying to imply. Your anecdotes are not relevant and it is an undeniable fact that millions of lives have been saved because of the vaccines, and millions more will be saved if more people would get it.

Why do you keep feeling offended? Do you have a problem with people who are clearly in favor of vaccination but still think in a differentiated way? I'm not at all concerned with how good or bad the vaccination is (it is very good and very important), but that doesn't mean that you can't do anything wrong.

And one more thing: these are not personal anecdotes, but events that happen again and again, and which are also constantly in the media.

Bad strawman argument. The more people get vaccinated the safer everyone will be overall. In your nursing home incident, imagine if 100% of the population were vaccinated. Does that change the odds at all of those 14 elderly people dying? No one's pretending that vaccinations are 100% effective. Great pains are taken to convey this nuance, and it's been repeated countless times in this very thread, so if anyone needs to stop pretending, you should stop pretending that we aren't aware of this fact.

That's not what I was talking about. My point is that for certain things, such as in nursing homes, even vaccinated people have to be tested.

Requiring everyone get tested on a weekly basis is an extremely tall order unfortunately. The reduction in the danger and propagation of the virus we can achieve through vaccination is as good as it is going to get without further extending the massive disruptions to people's lives.

That's true, but it should at least be made mandatory for things like visits to nursing homes.

 

[Chaplain]

Edited

 

[BouncyFrag]

 

[12Goblins]

the definition went from least accurate to most accurate. what is your point

 

[Physiognomonics]

Their new definition of Vaccine is basically the definition of any prophylactic treatment.

 

[Slaylock]

I'm taking this new vaccine. It's called "Vitamin C".

The Benefits of Vitamin C

Vitamin C is in many fruits and vegetables. Find out how it may support your health.

www.webmd.com

the benefits of vitamin C may include protection against immune system deficiencies, cardiovascular disease, prenatal health problems, eye disease, and even skin wrinkling

 

[funkygunther]

I'm taking this new vaccine. It's called "Vitamin C".

The Benefits of Vitamin C

Vitamin C is in many fruits and vegetables. Find out how it may support your health.

www.webmd.com

where does it say that Vitamin C stimulates the body’s immune response against diseases...you're trying too hard, as cute as you think you're being

 

[Slaylock]

where does it say that Vitamin C stimulates the body’s immune response against diseases...you're trying too hard, as cute as you think you're being

A short overview of vitamin C and selected cells of the immune system - Central European Journal of Medicine

Vitamin C (ascorbic acid) is an essential water-soluble nutrient that primarily exerts its effect on a host defense mechanisms and immune homeostasis and is the most important physiological antioxidant. Stable intake of vitamin C is essential for life in humans because the body does not...

link.springer.com

numerous studies have demonstrated that vitamin C supplementation stimulates the immune system, prevents DNA damage and significantly decreases the risk of a wide range of pathologies

They have made the definition so broad that lots of things could be vaccines.

 

[funkygunther]

A short overview of vitamin C and selected cells of the immune system - Central European Journal of Medicine

Vitamin C (ascorbic acid) is an essential water-soluble nutrient that primarily exerts its effect on a host defense mechanisms and immune homeostasis and is the most important physiological antioxidant. Stable intake of vitamin C is essential for life in humans because the body does not...

link.springer.com

They have made the definition so broad that lots of things could be vaccines.

no they haven't, it's specifically "stimulates the body's immune response against diseases"...if Vitamin C did that specifically then you'd have a point

on a wider point, this is just more anti-vax noise

 

[Rentahamster]

You could have fact checked this easily. There's a difference between the act of vaccination, and a vaccine, an object.

Vaccine Glossary of Terms | CDC

Glossary of terms used on Vaccines and Immunizations website

www.cdc.gov

Vaccination: Listen media icon[MP3]
The physical act of administering any vaccine or toxoid.

Vaccine: Listen media icon[MP3]
A suspension of live (usually attenuated) or inactivated microorganisms (e.g. bacteria or viruses) or fractions thereof administered to induce immunity and prevent infectious diseases and their sequelae. Some vaccines contain highly defined antigens (e.g., the polysaccharide of Haemophilus influenzae type b or the surface antigen of hepatitis B); others have antigens that are complex or incompletely defined (e.g. Bordetella pertussis antigens or live attenuated viruses).

Yeah totally the same as vitamin C.

 

[Chaplain]

True or false?

 

[BadBurger]

Their new definition of Vaccine is basically the definition of any prophylactic treatment.

Not all prophylactics are vaccines. Their definition literally includes the word "vaccine".

You know, I've seen a lot of outright dumb things complained about in this thread over the months - often reductive whinings regarding semantics or the improvement and accuracy of communication by providing more clarity ("How dare they say something slightly different than before now that there are new facts to consider, or now that conditions have changed! I demand that everything be written in stone once and never change!") - but this has to be top three.

 

[funkygunther]

True or false?

What?

 

[Physiognomonics]

Not all prophylactics are vaccines. Their definition literally includes the word "vaccine".

You know, I've seen a lot of outright dumb things complained about in this thread over the months - often reductive whinings regarding semantics or the improvement and accuracy of communication by providing more clarity ("How dare they say something slightly different than before now that there are new facts to consider, or now that conditions have changed! I demand that everything be written in stone once and never change!") - but this has to be top three.

Up to 2015 they were defining vaccination as a injecting a "killed or weakened infectious organism..." meaning a harmless or deactivated agent like true vaccination has being done since the 19th century.

From there they started defining vaccine using a cyclic definition. Vaccination is giving someone a vaccine... No mention of giving some harmless agent anymore. It can be anything, as long as they state it's going to fight the disease. Smart.

 

[Rentahamster]

Up to 2015 they were defining vaccination as a injecting a "killed or weakened infectious organism..." meaning a harmless or deactivated agent like true vaccination has being done since the 19th century.

From there they started defining vaccine using a cyclic definition. Vaccination is giving someone a vaccine... No mention of giving some harmless agent anymore. It can be anything, as long as they state it's going to fight the disease. Smart.

What year is it again?

Vaccine Glossary of Terms | CDC

Glossary of terms used on Vaccines and Immunizations website

www.cdc.gov

 

[Cyberpunkd]

Study (26th October 2021): "Comprehensive investigations revealed consistent pathophysiological alterations after vaccination with COVID-19 vaccines"

Does that mean I'm a Supraman now?

Anti-vax be like:

I'm like:

 

[BadBurger]

Up to 2015 they were defining vaccination as a injecting a "killed or weakened infectious organism..." meaning a harmless or deactivated agent like true vaccination has being done since the 19th century.

From there they started defining vaccine using a cyclic definition. Vaccination is giving someone a vaccine... No mention of giving some harmless agent anymore. It can be anything, as long as they state it's going to fight the disease. Smart.

Prior to vaccines existing mankind used to inoculate themselves with genetic material of any kind. Now we have something better, they're called vaccines.

These new vaccines don't rely upon only inert germs.

So we updated the communication to the public to reflect that.

And pssss.... the mRNA vaccines are just as safe as all the others! Wild right?! You'd know that if you relied on sources of information that weren't "take advantage of boomers" central.

 

[Physiognomonics]

Prior to vaccines existing mankind used to inoculate themselves with genetic material of any kind. Now we have something better, they're called vaccines.

These new vaccines don't rely upon only inert germs.

So we updated the communication to the public to reflect that.

And pssss.... the mRNA vaccines are just as safe as all the others! Wild right?! You'd know that if you relied on sources of information that weren't "take advantage of boomers" central.

We have decades of evidence to formally state the old vaccines are rather safe. It's too soon for those vaccines yet, remember it's too soon even for the manufactuers are they are still officially in the experimental test phase.

 

[Leyasu]

Does that mean I'm a Supraman now?

Anti-vax be like:

I'm like:

I thought that I was imagining that I looked even better than normal lately

 

[Cyberpunkd]

Up to 2015 they were defining vaccination as a injecting a "killed or weakened infectious organism..." meaning a harmless or deactivated agent like true vaccination has being done since the 19th century.

From there they started defining vaccine using a cyclic definition. Vaccination is giving someone a vaccine... No mention of giving some harmless agent anymore. It can be anything, as long as they state it's going to fight the disease. Smart.

Lots of fancy words while trying to educate yourself.

I think anti-vax get a bad rep, we should be kind and call them vaccine-hesitant. Medicine-anxious? Logically-challenged?

 

[FunkMiller]

I think anti-vax get a bad rep, we should be kind and call them vaccine-hesitant. Medicine-anxious? Logically-challenged?

The reality challenged.

 

[funkygunther]

Game Analyst banned from the thread, damn

 

[Nobody_Important]

Game Analyst banned from the thread, damn

Oh cool I can take him off ignore now. Those posts with like 6+ Tweets he made every page kept making the page take forever to load.