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Covid 19 Thread: [no bitching about masks of Fauci edition]

FunkMiller

Member
That's incorrect and a mischaracterization of my position. I do see Covid as a significant danger, but I also see immense danger in the abysmal way the international community has reacted to it.

So much of what's going on is driven by politics not science. Mask mandates for instance have minimal effect on the spread of the disease because the weave density of a cloth mask is an open goal to such a small virus. Social distancing doesn't do much without good ventilation and yet we have people being arrested for being out in the open air where the sheer volume of air largely neutralizes its communicability.

Noone wants to talk about the undisputed fact that none of the vaccines provide complete protection from infection/reinfection (even from the same strain), or can accurately quantify the degree of transmissibility reduction being vaccinated offers - if any at all. Noone wants to talk about the known serious atypical responses to the vaccines (myoarditis from the mrna types, blood clots from the viral vector types), and most of all noone wants to admit that insufficient time has passed since their mass adoption to really know what -if any- long term issues may be as a result of the spike protein itself being cytotoxic.

All these inconvenient truths are being swept under the rug or outright suppressed because the political will is to drive vaccine adoption at all costs.

As I've said before, I'm double-vaxxed and mask up/social distance in all relevant situations. I'm not in denial about the health threat Covid poses! What I'm concerned about is everything else, particularly the political, economic and sociological impact of the response to Covid - because its a political shit-show. Bad policies cost lives.

What exactly is abysmal about the international community creating and distributing a safe and effective vaccine to billions of people in less than two years?

Where is your evidence to suggest the vaccines cause harm to anyone but a tiny number of individuals?

It’s okay. You don’t really need to answer. You’ve convinced yourself that the vaccines are in some way dangerous beyond the facts we know about them, and nothing I can say will convince you otherwise.

At the same time, you’ve convinced yourself the ‘dangers’ presented by the measures put in place to control covid are as bad as the virus. Again, I’m not going to dissuade you from that opinion.

There are no inconvenient truths… just changing information in the face of changing pandemic, some mistakes due to this, and a lot of baseless conjecture from people with no evidence.
 
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T8SC

Member
What exactly is abysmal about the international community creating and distributing a safe and effective vaccine to billions of people in less than two years?

Where is your evidence to suggest the vaccines cause harm to anyone but a tiny number of individuals?

It’s okay. You don’t really need to answer. You’ve convinced yourself that the vaccines are in some way dangerous beyond the facts we know about them, and nothing I can say will convince you otherwise.

At the same time, you’ve convinced yourself the ‘dangers’ presented by the measures put in place to control covid are as bad as the virus. Again, I’m not going to dissuade you from that opinion.

There are no inconvenient truths… just changing information in the face of changing pandemic, some mistakes due to this, and a lot of baseless conjecture from people with no evidence.

His response was perfectly valid and not immature like yours. Go lock yourself in the basement and stop spouting crap to belittle others' views.
 
I disagree, the potential ramifications are far worse than a disease with a 1% mortality rate.

does this 1% figure account for global population or a specific population? does it account for all variants or only certain variants? is it CFR or IFR, or are you also counting "potential ramifications" in that figure like people not receiving the correct care for their illness because of Covid, or people who chose not to go see treatment for their illness during this time that otherwise would have?
 

FunkMiller

Member
His response was perfectly valid and not immature like yours. Go lock yourself in the basement and stop spouting crap to belittle others' views.

Alternatively... have you thought about having your own opinion, instead of posting this kind of pointless angry posturing? I'm sure the other dude is quite capable of defending his own position.

Also: disagreeing with someone = 'belittling other people's views'

Hot Shots Idiot GIF
 
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Clear

Member
does this 1% figure account for global population or a specific population? does it account for all variants or only certain variants? is it CFR or IFR, or are you also counting "potential ramifications" in that figure like people not receiving the correct care for their illness because of Covid, or people who chose not to go see treatment for their illness during this time that otherwise would have?

Its a rough measure because as with all these things its down to the criteria used to define a "covid death" within a certain polity. For example in the UK the statistic was registered as any death within (I think) 4 weeks of positive test, so you essentially could get hit by a bus and be added to the tally!

Basically if you look at the WHO data for number of cases versus mortalities, its around 1% globally, 3% I believe is the most severe estimate based on unrecorded deaths. The point is its way lower than SARS and MERS by any statistical measure. The other thing about Covid is that negative outcomes are highly age-sensitive, deaths of young healthy people with no co-morbidities are exceedingly rare, which is why the drive to vaccinate kids has been criticized in some circles because although the risk of atypical response to vaccination is a tiny percentile, expectations for mortality are similary remote.

Just look at the figures for yourself, WHO, CDC, BMI etc. Some degree of politicization is unavoidable, and obviously we're not all medical experts, but it doesn't take too much expertise to calculate population size, infection case count, and deaths recorded to get a lay sense of the scale of the issue.

As for my issues; its hard to know where to begin. Obviously delays to treatment are going to cost lives, inability to afford treatment due to economic circumstance is going to cost lives. Being pumped full of fear and paranoia by the government/mainstream media is going to cost lives through the multifarious social ills that sort of mental game propogates. Children being denied natural socialization at a crucial point in development is going to extract immense social cost in the long-term.

Governments taking "emergency powers" is also a concern because once assumed they tend never to taken back, allowing subsequent administrations to use them for their own ends. Its interesting how we see far more expenditure on social-control schemes like test and trace, vaccine passports and the like, containment for the infected/refuseniks etc. As opposed to stuff that actually deals with the core health issues like building more hospitals and treatment centres!

Most of all what bothers me is how little things have changed over the last 20 months in terms of policy as our scientific understanding of covid has evolved. Panic was natural when dealing with an unknown pathogen, but now its pretty well understood epidemiologically and medically. We know its spread primarily in aerosolized form, not in droplets so masking is mostly redundant. We know its a small and relatively fragile virus that denatures quickly in UV light and on surfaces meaning that locking people down in their homes doesn't really achieve much. We have a broad range of treatments and protocols to support better recovery rates, so although a moderate to severe case is definitely a thing to be avoided its unlikely to be a death sentence unless you have existing co-morbidities.

Its not the only thing people are dying from. Flu which as been routinely controlled with vaccinations for years still kills millions of vulnerable people every winter. Cancer is still a thing; and delays to diagnoses can make the difference between full recovery and death.

As Curtis Mayfield wrote in Freddie's Dead, "no one's serious, and it makes me furious".
 
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FireFly

Member
I disagree, the potential ramifications are far worse than a disease with a 1% mortality rate. Especially given that evolutionary forces will always drive a virus to higher transmissibility but lower lethality as the opposite case will in itself drive it to extinction.

This is not the first pandemic humanity has faced, and it won't be the last.
If each person knows ~100 others in their extended circle, then you are talking about a situation where every person would on average know someone who had died of the virus. Or another equivalent in lives lost would be a natural disaster that wiped out the majority of the population of each country's capital. Like if 75% of London got wiped out by a neutron bomb.
 

Yoda

Member
Talk about fear-porn, the virus is (globally) endemic, what is the end-game for pro-restriction folks? 100% vaccine (rNA immune booster would be a better word) uptake amongst the (entire?) population every ~9 months? That won't stop hospitalizations, deaths, or even infections. The denial amongst vast swathes of the society that this virus is NEVER going away is astonishing.
 

T8SC

Member
Alternatively... have you thought about having your own opinion, instead of posting this kind of pointless angry posturing? I'm sure the other dude is quite capable of defending his own position.

Also: disagreeing with someone = 'belittling other people's views'

Hot Shots Idiot GIF

I was going to reply properly but you've probably already convinced yourself of what my reply would be and also already convinced yourself of how the conversation would play out.



Am I doing this right? That's how "disagreements" work yes? You essentially pre-empt what someone is going to say and then discard it... or rather, like mature adults, have the discussion & agree/disagreement as you say occurred.

 

Airbus Jr

Member
Talk about fear-porn, the virus is (globally) endemic, what is the end-game for pro-restriction folks? 100% vaccine (rNA immune booster would be a better word) uptake amongst the (entire?) population every ~9 months? That won't stop hospitalizations, deaths, or even infections. The denial amongst vast swathes of the society that this virus is NEVER going away is astonishing.
This is the common missconception around here

Vaccine doesnt and will never give you 100% guaranteed protection against covid 19 esp with new mutation coming however it does helps alot decreasing mortality rate
 
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FunkMiller

Member
I was going to reply properly but you've probably already convinced yourself of what my reply would be and also already convinced yourself of how the conversation would play out.

Am I doing this right? That's how "disagreements" work yes? You essentially pre-empt what someone is going to say and then discard it... or rather, like mature adults, have the discussion & agree/disagreement as you say occurred.

Seriously... are you an alt of the other guy?

Give you smooth brain a polish, and relax dude :ROFLMAO:
 

Yoda

Member
This is the common missconception around here

Vaccine doesnt and will never give you 100% guaranteed protection against covid 19 esp with new mutation coming however it does helps alot decreasing mortality rate

Can't tell if you're agreeing with me or not, but that's the point I was making.
 

FunkMiller

Member
This is the common missconception around here

Vaccine doesnt and will never give you 100% guaranteed protection against covid 19 esp with new mutation coming however it does helps alot decreasing mortality rate

This bit really does my head in. We've been having vaccines for other respiratory viruses for decades that require annual jabs. It's zero surprise that covid would likely be the same.
 

QSD

Member
Been a while since I've been in this thread...

So the new variant turned up here in The Netherlands too. Let's hope the South African lady doctor is right and it's milder in addition to being more transmissible, that way it'll overtake delta while doing less damage. I can understand some of the panicky measures like flight restrictions but TBH it's probably too late already. We were always 1-2 weeks behind the virus because of the incubation period and the incidence of asymptomatic cases

Boosters are finally rolling out here in december. I'll be getting one but have noticed more hesitancy than expected among my colleagues. A lot of 'I wasn't too keen on the first two and I've done my bit' type reasoning.
One female colleague back from maternity leave told me she had 5 female friends who had issues with their periods after getting the vaxx. Probably just anecdotal happenstance but I can't fault her for not being too keen on getting the jab.

in better news: just got laid for the first time since the start of the pandemic, so drinks on me everyone :messenger_smiling_with_eyes:
 

FunkMiller

Member
More info regarding omicron *maybe* being milder… and might actually be Absolutely the best outcome moving forward if it is:

Edit: tweet deleted, but instead, here’s Scotty The Coal Whore saying its looking milder as well.



And you can always trust Scotty!
 
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Desavona

Member
Been a while since I've been in this thread...

So the new variant turned up here in The Netherlands too. Let's hope the South African lady doctor is right and it's milder in addition to being more transmissible, that way it'll overtake delta while doing less damage. I can understand some of the panicky measures like flight restrictions but TBH it's probably too late already. We were always 1-2 weeks behind the virus because of the incubation period and the incidence of asymptomatic cases

Boosters are finally rolling out here in december. I'll be getting one but have noticed more hesitancy than expected among my colleagues. A lot of 'I wasn't too keen on the first two and I've done my bit' type reasoning.
One female colleague back from maternity leave told me she had 5 female friends who had issues with their periods after getting the vaxx. Probably just anecdotal happenstance but I can't fault her for not being too keen on getting the jab.

in better news: just got laid for the first time since the start of the pandemic, so drinks on me everyone :messenger_smiling_with_eyes:
My wife’s friend group were asking each other about their cycles after the vaccine too a few months ago some went a bit wonky after the vaccine all of them had Pfizer.
 

QSD

Member
My wife’s friend group were asking each other about their cycles after the vaccine too a few months ago some went a bit wonky after the vaccine all of them had Pfizer.
IDK which vaccine they got. Another colleague (when told about this case) said that isn't uncommon for her period to be weird in response to a fever or flu. So might be pretty harmless overall.
 

Clear

Member
Vaccine doesnt and will never give you 100% guaranteed protection against covid 19 esp with new mutation coming however it does helps alot decreasing mortality rate

Yep, and the mortality rate outside of specifically vulnerable groups was never that high to begin with!

My point is just that we should get a better sense of perspective on the threat we're dealing with. Because if you recalibrate that, then the wisdom of all the things being enacted to deal with it suddenly start to look a lot less smart in terms of profit vs loss for society.

This is not denialism, its not even disregarding that Covid is a massive problem. Just that we should stop the drama and accept the fact that our leaders could be managing this crisis way better. Cures can be worse than the disease.
 

Desavona

Member
IDK which vaccine they got. Another colleague (when told about this case) said that isn't uncommon for her period to be weird in response to a fever or flu. So might be pretty harmless overall.
Yeah I mean you mix that in with the googling they would do about it and the stress would alter it too. I do hear about it a lot though.
 

FireFly

Member
Yep, and the mortality rate outside of specifically vulnerable groups was never that high to begin with!

My point is just that we should get a better sense of perspective on the threat we're dealing with. Because if you recalibrate that, then the wisdom of all the things being enacted to deal with it suddenly start to look a lot less smart in terms of profit vs loss for society.

This is not denialism, its not even disregarding that Covid is a massive problem. Just that we should stop the drama and accept the fact that our leaders could be managing this crisis way better. Cures can be worse than the disease.
Most of the mitigations took place before widespread vaccination, where there were limited options for controlling the virus. Now societies are more or less open, with some division between the freedoms afforded to vaccinated/unvaccinated people.

If you have an objection to a specific measure, feel free to raise it. But IMO saying we should "manage the crisis better" is so vague as to be meaningless, as with calling for less "drama". Is it "dramatic" to attempt to limit the spread of a new variant, before we know its effects? It is it dramatic to have yearly vaccination programs for a virus that will likely be with us for some time? It's just that in my experience the "just asking questions", "just expressing concern" line of reasoning is either about obfuscating specific claims – like that we should perfectly fine seeing 1% of the population die – since it is unpalatable to state them directly. Or it's a replacement for actual arguments and actual evidence.
 

Clear

Member
with some division between the freedoms afforded to vaccinated/unvaccinated people.

That's a huge problem for a start.

1. Because the degree of reduction in transmissibility between a vaccinated and unvaccinated person is not settled beyond the demonstrable fact it has to be less than 100% as the vaccine itself does not afford sterilizing immunity.

2. It disregards the proven superior immunity bequeathed through infection and recovery.

3. And extreme social coercion for invasive medicine is an affront to human rights, especially in light of the above facts.

If the only way you could contract Covid was from an unvaccinated person, I'd be onboard with it. However this is obviously untrue. And I'm sure you know its untrue. Which begs the question why would you support such a measure? Especially given that logic, the same degree of vigilance would need to be maintained while a single case of Covid exists!

None of this makes sense. Asymptomatic transmission has been demonstrated, so the fact that vaccination tends to result in briefer and less severe illness doesn't really change anything in regards to the virus' ability to spread. Besides, the effectiveness of any vaccine is contingent upon the performance of the patients immune system -which is kind of an issue given how lockdowns and social distancing are naturally immunosuppressive.

Most of all though, unvaccinated people aren't leaving a trail of corpses in their wake. So why treat them like lepers? How can you be simultaneously convinced of the absolute importance of vaccination when you aren't absolutely convinced of its powers of protection?

Is your support based on the thought that if everyone is vaccinated the restrictions will all melt away? Because if so, stop and consider who you are bargaining with. Because the virus isn't listening.
 

FireFly

Member
That's a huge problem for a start.

1. Because the degree of reduction in transmissibility between a vaccinated and unvaccinated person is not settled beyond the demonstrable fact it has to be less than 100% as the vaccine itself does not afford sterilizing immunity.

2. It disregards the proven superior immunity bequeathed through infection and recovery.

3. And extreme social coercion for invasive medicine is an affront to human rights, especially in light of the above facts.

If the only way you could contract Covid was from an unvaccinated person, I'd be onboard with it. However this is obviously untrue. And I'm sure you know its untrue. Which begs the question why would you support such a measure? Especially given that logic, the same degree of vigilance would need to be maintained while a single case of Covid exists!

None of this makes sense. Asymptomatic transmission has been demonstrated, so the fact that vaccination tends to result in briefer and less severe illness doesn't really change anything in regards to the virus' ability to spread. Besides, the effectiveness of any vaccine is contingent upon the performance of the patients immune system -which is kind of an issue given how lockdowns and social distancing are naturally immunosuppressive.

Most of all though, unvaccinated people aren't leaving a trail of corpses in their wake. So why treat them like lepers? How can you be simultaneously convinced of the absolute importance of vaccination when you aren't absolutely convinced of its powers of protection?

Is your support based on the thought that if everyone is vaccinated the restrictions will all melt away? Because if so, stop and consider who you are bargaining with. Because the virus isn't listening.
I am happy we are discussing something concrete now.

We know, by comparing the proportion of vaccinated people among those that tested positive with COVID, with the proportion among those that tested negative, that vaccination is effective at reducing symptomatic infection by 54% - 88%. It seems there is a waning effect that reduces vaccine effectiveness over time, but when boosted puts it back into the 90% range. There are less studies done on asymptomatic infection, since this requires some kind of "pre-screening" to catch the asymptomatic cases. But at least against prior variants, there doesn't seem to be a big difference in effectiveness vs. asymptomatic cases. So it doesn't seem like the vaccine is converting symptomatic infections to asymptomatic ones, but rather preventing infections generally. You can see a summary of the studies here, under the various tables for symptomatic/asymptomatic infection:


Now if vaccinated individuals are less likely to catch the virus when exposed, then this reduces the "pool" of potential new victims available to the virus. To illustrate, if each infected person would on average meet and infect 10 others, and of 9/10 are given a 60% effective vaccine, then that halves the proportion of people the virus can infect, to 5/10. To stop the virus from spreading entirely, we need to reduce this number to 1, and this can be achieved by "topping" up the immunity of the vaccinated through natural infection. In this case this requires an additional 4/10 to have immunity through natural infection infected, rather than the whole population!

So your point is that the vaccine doesn't stop transmission. And that's right. But the evidence suggests it takes a huge chunk out of the virus' ability to spread, which means we need many less people to be infected to achieve herd immunity. We can see in the UK that vaccination topped up by a high rate of natural infections has prevented the virus from exploding out of control, protecting the heath system, and reducing the need for any further restrictions. So returning to the subject of vaccine specific freedoms, I think the benefits are as follows:

1.) Increasing the overall vaccination rate of the population
2.) Potentially reducing the ability of the virus to reach unvaccinated individuals

1 and 2 have the effect of reducing the "peak" of the epidemic, by taking potential hosts out of the virus pool, meaning that we reach herd immunity quicker. This in turn reduces the load on the healthcare system, and the number of unvaccinated individuals that end up dying. But I actually agree that since the peak will already have been reduced by vaccination, the "costs" of such measures might not be worth the benefit. At least in the UK, unvaccinated individuals have almost complete freedom. But it's a cost / benefit assessment.
 
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This is the common missconception around here

Vaccine doesnt and will never give you 100% guaranteed protection against covid 19 esp with new mutation coming however it does helps alot decreasing mortality rate
It kind of does. Once a random amount of virus gets into your body the outcome what happens is pretty much set, it's either:
-You recover without symptoms
-You get mild symptoms and then recover
-You get ill, impacting your ability to carry out your normal life for a while and then recover
-You get so ill that you need to be hosptitalized and then recover(*)
-You get so ill that you need to go to the ICU and then recover(*)
-You get so ill that you die even with hospital/ICU care

Getting a vaccine moves you towards the first, better outcomes. New medicines also will help to prevent the last outcome. For the population as a whole it will never be 100% as some are just unable to fight off covid but for many people a 100% protection (except some cases like your immune system getting damaged later on or an insanely heavy exposure to the virus) against dying will be given by vaccination.

*-assuming there is room for you, if there is none you probably die. So a variant which is 25% less deadly but 50% more transmissible will kill more people as hospitals get overloaded with 50% more patients per day
 
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BadBurger

Gold Member
I salute all you brave commenters that try to make sense of all the misinformation. Where something has to be 100% effective, or it’s useless. And nuance is thrown out the window.

I wish you all good health.

I gave up a few weeks ago and now just ignore the anti-science, reality deniers. I know that as a good citizen of the world I should keep pointing them towards science and facts, but at this point in the game (almost two years in) they've been exposed to the truth and have made a conscious decision to reject it. I just hope none of them get sick and die, or by the hazards of their denials and willful ignorance cause harm to or death for others they're close to. /shrug
 
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Ellery

Member
Well we all know how this is going to end. It is great effort to educate anti vaxxers and hope they help society on their own, but eventually most countries will have mandatory vaccination. I just don't see any endgame for anti vaxxers when most people will be vaxxed and this becomes an actual conflict within the population of vax/anti vax. It is also the easiest way out for the government and it is pretty easy to see what side government, big corporations, the wealthy, the powerful and most of the population are.
The numbers of anti vax people will not increase. It only decreases day by day because people are either getting vaccinated or some will die because they refuse to get vaccinated. Excluded from basically all social activities already and it will only get harder and harder for unvaccinated to participate in anything.

So at this point it has become kind of not worth the effort to try to convince people of science when they are unable to comprehend and think all of this is one big conspiracy, because the outcome will be the same as there is zero hope for anti vaxxers to come out on top in this "fight". It will probably be the hardest and take longer in the USA than in most other countries though.
 

Kenpachii

Gold Member
Well we all know how this is going to end. It is great effort to educate anti vaxxers and hope they help society on their own, but eventually most countries will have mandatory vaccination. I just don't see any endgame for anti vaxxers when most people will be vaxxed and this becomes an actual conflict within the population of vax/anti vax. It is also the easiest way out for the government and it is pretty easy to see what side government, big corporations, the wealthy, the powerful and most of the population are.
The numbers of anti vax people will not increase. It only decreases day by day because people are either getting vaccinated or some will die because they refuse to get vaccinated. Excluded from basically all social activities already and it will only get harder and harder for unvaccinated to participate in anything.

So at this point it has become kind of not worth the effort to try to convince people of science when they are unable to comprehend and think all of this is one big conspiracy, because the outcome will be the same as there is zero hope for anti vaxxers to come out on top in this "fight". It will probably be the hardest and take longer in the USA than in most other countries though.

New versions will pop up and more anti vaxxers will arrive because they don't believe it anymore.

The only solution to this shit is not starting to threat anti vaxxers like jews in the second world war. but to expand hospitals rapidly to the point they can absorb the people that are ill.

The whole media setup against anti vaxxers is disgusting.

In my view any country that mandates vaccination can be put on a black list of never to be seen again. I won't be buying or go on holidays to austria ever again absolute deplorable government.
 
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Cyberpunkd

Member
The only solution to this shit is not starting to threat anti vaxxers like jews in the second world war. but to expand hospitals rapidly to the point they can absorb the people that are ill.
Nah bro, the whole hospital system should not switch to Covid mode because you are afraid of vaccine that works. There are hundreds of thousands of hospitals in the world that right now are 100% Covid with all other departments shut down. This will mean thousands of people will die because you are a special snowflake.

Vaccination works, if booster shots are needed for new variants so be it. Don’t like it - k, sit your ass at home.
 

Kenpachii

Gold Member
Nah bro, the whole hospital system should not switch to Covid mode because you are afraid of vaccine that works. There are hundreds of thousands of hospitals in the world that right now are 100% Covid with all other departments shut down. This will mean thousands of people will die because you are a special snowflake.

Vaccination works, if booster shots are needed for new variants so be it. Don’t like it - k, sit your ass at home.

Because there hospitals capacity's are tiny as fuck and they refuse to see covid as a serious threat themselves, its the goverments fault not the anti vaxxers.

I live in the netherlands. hospitals are swamped, lockdowns are on the way. The moment healthcare workers needed a raise all the goverment people walked out because they gave zero fucks. We got like 2000 icc's or something on a population that sits almost on eachother lap with 18 million people that's highly connected with the world. It's a minefield for covid.

I had a sister that worked in the covid department for practically no money, she wanted to stay there and move forwards. Guess what happened in the summer? they fired her ass and said get fucked search a new job because no money. Now winter comes and they can't find personal? yea i wonder why that is. Tons of people, tons of ways to do shit but no direction from teh goverment.

Instead "anti vaxxer bad" go bully them population, and put a star on there jacket while you are at it.

It doesn't matter if vaccination works, some people are morally against it and they can die off and take the risk. however u give people a chose of free will or you become a dictatorship like shitholes like austria. Gosh i wonder why they started it, didn't that fucking shit lord hitler also came out of those hills. They never learned.
 

Ellery

Member
New versions will pop up and more anti vaxxers will arrive because they don't believe it anymore.

The only solution to this shit is not starting to threat anti vaxxers like jews in the second world war. but to expand hospitals rapidly to the point they can absorb the people that are ill.

The whole media setup against anti vaxxers is disgusting.

In my view any country that mandates vaccination can be put on a black list of never to be seen again. I won't be buying or go on holidays to austria ever again absolute deplorable government.

Are you comparing people who refuse to take a vaccine to jewish people that were brutally murdered by the nazis in the second world war?
 

T8SC

Member
Question -

My Dad recently got his booster & flu jab (one in each arm) at the same time.

Why? Because he's older (obviously) and both could kill him.

Both viruses are deadly.

Why do I (A healthy young man) need a Covid booster but not a flu jab? Or rather, why am I being pushed to get a booster (in the coming weeks) and yet flu jab, nah bro.

Am I likely to die from flu? No.
Am I likely to die from Covid? No.

Booster jab - Pushed. (Every 6 months it seems since it all wears off).
Flu jab - Nah.

Anyone want to shed a bit of logical light on this?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Summary of those who are recommended to have the flu vaccine
They include:

  • everyone aged 65 and over
  • everyone under 65 years of age who has a medical condition listed above, including children and babies over 6 months of age
  • all pregnant women, at any stage of pregnancy
  • all 2 and 3 year old children (provided they were aged 2 or 3 years old on 31 August of the current flu season)
  • all children in primary school
  • all Year 7 to Year 11 secondary school-aged children
  • everyone living in a residential or nursing home
  • everyone who cares for an older or disabled person
  • all frontline health and social care workers
Those aged 50 to 64 years old will also be offered flu vaccination this year.
 

Kenpachii

Gold Member
Are you comparing people who refuse to take a vaccine to jewish people that were brutally murdered by the nazis in the second world war?

Your argument sounds like something like this.

Well that guy doesn't have a mustache so he can't be hitler because hitler had a mustache.

As politics is banned on this forum, i would suggest start reading up on the start of hitlers rise to power and how jews where handled in the early days. U see the same shit happening here with covid humans never learn and it shows.

The only thing that needs to happen is drop a list of people that are against vaccination and u will see there business being destroyed and burned to the ground by radicals supported by the majority soon enough when a new lockdown happens. + block them from hospitals and soon rather then later they will die out as result with the same people dancing on there graves.

And why? because its cheaper for goverments as goverments are completely taken hostage by these institutes anyway. Specially here in the netherlands. As i explained covid and hospital swamping is easily solved by dropping far more icc's for people into hospitals or build more hospitals. They don't wanna do it, because they put there priority's elsewhere while larping they care. And put the finger towards the minority of population that simple don't want it.

U never put populations against each other. its a bad fucking idea and anybody supporting that shit in my view should be culled the next day themselves.

And before anybody wonders i am a pro vaccination and am vaccinated myself and find it a bad idea in general to not get vaccinated. However freedom of choice exists.
 
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FunkMiller

Member
Your argument sounds like something like this.

Well that guy doesn't have a mustache so he can't be hitler because hitler had a mustache.

As politics is banned on this forum, i would suggest start reading up on the start of hitlers rise to power and how jews where handled in the early days. U see the same shit happening here with covid humans never learn and it shows.

The only thing that needs to happen is drop a list of people that are against anti vax and u will see there business being destroyed and burned to the ground by radicals supported by the majority soon enough when a new lockdown happens. + block them from hospitals and soon rather then later they will die out as result with the same people dancing on there graves.

And why? because its cheaper for goverments as goverments are completely taken hostage by these institutes anyway. Specially here in the netherlands. As i explained covid and hospital swamping is easily solved by dropping far more icc's for people into hospitals or build more hospitals. They don't wanna do it, because they put there priority's elsewhere while larping they care. And put the finger towards the minority of population that simple don't want it.

U never put populations against each other. its a bad fucking idea and anybody supporting that shit in my view should be culled the next day themselves.

Jesus Christ, you’re a lunatic.
 

FunkMiller

Member
Question -

My Dad recently got his booster & flu jab (one in each arm) at the same time.

Why? Because he's older (obviously) and both could kill him.

Both viruses are deadly.

Why do I (A healthy young man) need a Covid booster but not a flu jab? Or rather, why am I being pushed to get a booster (in the coming weeks) and yet flu jab, nah bro.

Am I likely to die from flu? No.
Am I likely to die from Covid? No.

Booster jab - Pushed. (Every 6 months it seems since it all wears off).
Flu jab - Nah.

Anyone want to shed a bit of logical light on this?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Summary of those who are recommended to have the flu vaccine
They include:

  • everyone aged 65 and over
  • everyone under 65 years of age who has a medical condition listed above, including children and babies over 6 months of age
  • all pregnant women, at any stage of pregnancy
  • all 2 and 3 year old children (provided they were aged 2 or 3 years old on 31 August of the current flu season)
  • all children in primary school
  • all Year 7 to Year 11 secondary school-aged children
  • everyone living in a residential or nursing home
  • everyone who cares for an older or disabled person
  • all frontline health and social care workers
Those aged 50 to 64 years old will also be offered flu vaccination this year.

Fuck me. Still with the ‘covid is no worse than flu’ routine.

This thread really had become a merry go round of stupid.
 

FunkMiller

Member
More like you got no argument for shit and refer to insults. Was to be expected.

Comparing selfish idiots who won’t take a vaccine, and the efforts of governments to stop a pandemic… with the millions of innocent people herded into gas chambers by a regime bent on extermination makes you a fucking moron. If I have to eat a ban for saying so, so be it.
 
Last edited:

Ellery

Member
Your argument sounds like something like this.

Well that guy doesn't have a mustache so he can't be hitler because hitler had a mustache.

As politics is banned on this forum, i would suggest start reading up on the start of hitlers rise to power and how jews where handled in the early days. U see the same shit happening here with covid humans never learn and it shows.

The only thing that needs to happen is drop a list of people that are against vaccination and u will see there business being destroyed and burned to the ground by radicals supported by the majority soon enough when a new lockdown happens. + block them from hospitals and soon rather then later they will die out as result with the same people dancing on there graves.

And why? because its cheaper for goverments as goverments are completely taken hostage by these institutes anyway. Specially here in the netherlands. As i explained covid and hospital swamping is easily solved by dropping far more icc's for people into hospitals or build more hospitals. They don't wanna do it, because they put there priority's elsewhere while larping they care. And put the finger towards the minority of population that simple don't want it.

U never put populations against each other. its a bad fucking idea and anybody supporting that shit in my view should be culled the next day themselves.

And before anybody wonders i am a pro vaccination and am vaccinated myself and find it a bad idea in general to not get vaccinated. However freedom of choice exists.

Maybe you are slightly stepping over the line here calling for violence?
 

FireFly

Member
Question -

My Dad recently got his booster & flu jab (one in each arm) at the same time.

Why? Because he's older (obviously) and both could kill him.

Both viruses are deadly.

Why do I (A healthy young man) need a Covid booster but not a flu jab? Or rather, why am I being pushed to get a booster (in the coming weeks) and yet flu jab, nah bro.

Am I likely to die from flu? No.
Am I likely to die from Covid? No.

Booster jab - Pushed. (Every 6 months it seems since it all wears off).
Flu jab - Nah.

Anyone want to shed a bit of logical light on this?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Summary of those who are recommended to have the flu vaccine
They include:

  • everyone aged 65 and over
  • everyone under 65 years of age who has a medical condition listed above, including children and babies over 6 months of age
  • all pregnant women, at any stage of pregnancy
  • all 2 and 3 year old children (provided they were aged 2 or 3 years old on 31 August of the current flu season)
  • all children in primary school
  • all Year 7 to Year 11 secondary school-aged children
  • everyone living in a residential or nursing home
  • everyone who cares for an older or disabled person
  • all frontline health and social care workers
Those aged 50 to 64 years old will also be offered flu vaccination this year.
You didn't say which country you were from, but I suspect the main rationale is to boost immunity in the population so we need less people to get naturally infected to achieve herd immunity.



Just look at what happened to cases in Israel after they rolled their booster program out.
 

T8SC

Member
You didn't say which country you were from, but I suspect the main rationale is to boost immunity in the population so we need less people to get naturally infected to achieve herd immunity.



Just look at what happened to cases in Israel after they rolled their booster program out.

Ok, I understand that and I've nothing against vaccines (Just to reiterate this). However, why aren't we trying to get the same "herd immunity" against flu? Why aren't we pushing for the same age groups etc to be jabbed for that? If I passed the flu on to an elderly person/underlying issues person, then the risk is similar/same.

We have the vaccine(s), we have the ability (Ok maybe not at present with the Covid push) so why is it different? Genuine question.
 

FireFly

Member
Ok, I understand that and I've nothing against vaccines (Just to reiterate this). However, why aren't we trying to get the same "herd immunity" against flu? Why aren't we pushing for the same age groups etc to be jabbed for that? If I passed the flu on to an elderly person/underlying issues person, then the risk is similar/same.

We have the vaccine(s), we have the ability (Ok maybe not at present with the Covid push) so why is it different? Genuine question.
1.) COVID is substantially more deadly than the flu (https://www.bmj.com/content/375/bmj.n2514)
2.) Even if vaccination brings COVID back in line with the flu, hospital capacity is not designed to deal with two flu like illnesses at the same time.
3.) Health systems are already backlogged from postponing routine treatments during the last COVID spikes
4.) Dwindling immunity in the population makes us more vulnerable to variants such as Omicron
 
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