jimmypython
Member
I don't like antifa. They are fascists' leverage.
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Daily Show host Trevor Noah says people see Antifa as "Vegan Isis"
- Thread starter kitsunelaine
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kitsunelaine
Banned
Well, what happened was I actually heard about it from a friend, went looking for an article to make a thread about, and then did that. It wasn't the article I was relying on, but the article definitely has a screwy title.
But yeah, my fuckup here, though I feel like it's only a slight misrepresentation of the content. Happy for a mod to edit the title. Or just close the thread until someone else makes a better OP. Discussion here is already skewed.
Are you guys in America just discovering the term "antifa"?
In Europe it was born in the 80s, and it's used to describe the most radical and extreme-left part of the antifascist movement, leading usually violent actions. Where I live "antifa" doesn't just mean "antifascist", it's a pretty loaded word really.
In Europe it was born in the 80s, and it's used to describe the most radical and extreme-left part of the antifascist movement, leading usually violent actions. Where I live "antifa" doesn't just mean "antifascist", it's a pretty loaded word really.
Gordon Shumway
Banned
lol..Vegan ISIS..
NoblesseOblige
Banned
He's not actually saying Antifa is 'Vegan Isis'. He's saying that's what idiots watching Fox News and such think. Regardless, the segment sounds poorly thought out with inaccuracies.
The violent elements that are violent for the sake of anarchy are a problem and do major damage to the cause.
Fox and its ilk are going to bullshit without evidence. Providing them evidence just makes their claims come across legitimate and its only a matter of time before more neutral news are compelled to talk about the anarchists.
Fox and its ilk are going to bullshit without evidence. Providing them evidence just makes their claims come across legitimate and its only a matter of time before more neutral news are compelled to talk about the anarchists.
Oh Viacom, when will you learn.
The article in the OP has the clip uploaded.
What? My statement was about comedy as a whole. I hope you don't think I'm saying jokes about Trump talking funny and lusting after his daughter aren't good comedic fodder.
"Vegan Isis" is a funny sounding name. It's Leftist Violent Terrorist Group.
It's the juxtaposition of the concept of not wanting to harm animals with a militant genocidal terrorist organization.
Expecting these shows to provide insight into how to plan political discourse is a mistake.
kitsunelaine
Banned
Agreed. That's why I don't think the title is as misleading as others do, but enough people are making a fuss about it that this thread still should be changed or closed.
Maybe something like ""Daily Show" host Trevor Noah says Antifa looks like "Vegan ISIS"".
Edit: Already beaten by a mod. Thx guys <3
Wait. What did GRR Martin say?
NoblesseOblige
Banned
Are you just discovering it? It's far older than the '80s.
Antifa in America previously existed as Anti-Racist Action but with the arrival of Trump and the burgeoning fascist movement the original term had been adopted by anarchists, socialists and communists who use black bloc tactics.
A lot of people don't quite understand it and just think it means "anti-fascist" as a label thar can be applied to all left wong protestors, so you get the weird situation where a bunch of liberals are like woo yeah go Antifa!! until someone breaks a window or lobs a smoke bomb and suddenly it's time to tut tut and denounce all violence again.
I for one do not give a shit about violence done to fascists. I don't agree with it when anarchists break stuff without a larger goal because I think it's bad strategy, but I'm not morally opposed to it.
MistakenMobius
Member
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_of_October_Anti-Fascist_Resistance_Groups
As a European, we have endured as much Left wing terrorism(RAF,CCC, Action Directe) is as the right wing Neo-facist one (NAR, loge P2 and uterus du Brabant).
Bitch Pudding
Member
I actually don't know how an average American defines "Antifa", but in Germany they are indeed on the far - as in radical - left side of the political spectrum, and both sides are prepared to use violence to make a point. Antifa should never be confused with peaceful protesters marching on the streets for freedom and democracy.
This is why I have no problem with Trevor's comment.
This is why I have no problem with Trevor's comment.
Alexander DeLarge
Member
Good. Fuck ANTIFA. They're violent anarchists and communists.
They also put "Nazis" in the hospital, except anyone to the right of Barack Obama is a Nazi right now so that isn't too great.
They also put "Nazis" in the hospital, except anyone to the right of Barack Obama is a Nazi right now so that isn't too great.
Johnny Cage In The Shower
Member
That Clip is only for US audience as well
I agree. He's a comedian. His purpose was to be provocative and to make people laugh.
Vegan-ISIS is a funny contrasting name, even if repeating it in a joke is questionable in a political discussion. It's a comedy show.
Words have power and meaning though if you are actually trying to make a serious point. Mean what you say if the goal is making a political statement.
I think that it was just a slow writing joke.
Steeped in a Sea of Games
Member
Worst part about centrist liberals; perfectly happy to handcuff themselves and lay down and let the world stomp on them while screaming "Hey guys, not cool."
Sometimes people have to take a goddamn stand. That doesn't mean people need to be pointlessly smashing stuff, but enough with letting the far right intimidate the rest of us into submission. Sick of this self-defeating pacifist bullshit.
Sometimes people have to take a goddamn stand. That doesn't mean people need to be pointlessly smashing stuff, but enough with letting the far right intimidate the rest of us into submission. Sick of this self-defeating pacifist bullshit.
Seriously? Viacom is nuts.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
Lol what
The Republican party right now is exactly what it wants to be.
You repeating this won't magically make it true.
are you a bot
I don't care much for TN but he's not wrong.
People do see antifa as a "well that's just the left's version of x" "they're just as bad". "blah blah blah, something about fascism coming to america as 'anti-fascism'"
They're wrong of course, but image is everything these days. People on the right are reprehensible enough to characterize peaceful non-violent protest as weak, tone-deaf, pathetic, vile, etc. What do you think they're going to do when people start throwing punches, molotovs, and beat downs? Even if it's against a Nazi, it's going to be spun. If they mistarget someone and just beat down a random, it's going to be like napalm in the right spin doctor's hands.
Antifa ends up doing harm to their own cause because of this. Doesn't matter that factually they're no where near as bad as Neo-Nazis or KKK.
People do see antifa as a "well that's just the left's version of x" "they're just as bad". "blah blah blah, something about fascism coming to america as 'anti-fascism'"
They're wrong of course, but image is everything these days. People on the right are reprehensible enough to characterize peaceful non-violent protest as weak, tone-deaf, pathetic, vile, etc. What do you think they're going to do when people start throwing punches, molotovs, and beat downs? Even if it's against a Nazi, it's going to be spun. If they mistarget someone and just beat down a random, it's going to be like napalm in the right spin doctor's hands.
Antifa ends up doing harm to their own cause because of this. Doesn't matter that factually they're no where near as bad as Neo-Nazis or KKK.
Gordon Shumway
Banned
Phrozenflame500
Member
Well he's right. Antifa isn't as bad as neo-nazis and trying to equate them is silly. But that doesn't mean we have to be fond of them.
That went over my head.
Yup. There's a difference between going looking for a fight, and being prepared to finish one if one starts.
Punching people and breaking glass doesn't help your cause though. It just gives your opponent ammo against you.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
It should be fairly obvious that people who say that antifa is as bad as the KKK don't actually think the KKK is that bad
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
No, we end up injured or dead cuz dipshits at the top think we need to hear the other side.
So sum it up people who are not anti fascist are ok with nazi's intent to kill another millions of people if they can.
Your supposed to be anti fascist by default if nazi's can they will do it again. Yeah it's not 1944 anymore but fuck i do not like fascism, i do not like that neo nazi's.
Your supposed to be anti fascist by default if nazi's can they will do it again. Yeah it's not 1944 anymore but fuck i do not like fascism, i do not like that neo nazi's.
OrangeGrayBlue
Member
Huge difference between what Trevor said (that people see Antifa as vegan ISIS) and what many seem to be responding to here (the notion that Trevor himself considers them vegan ISIS).
In the context of what he actually said, he's 100% correct. Conservatives and people who are generally tuned out of politics just see antifa as the ying to the alt-right's yang.
In the context of what he actually said, he's 100% correct. Conservatives and people who are generally tuned out of politics just see antifa as the ying to the alt-right's yang.
Gordon Shumway
Banned
No doubt. They ain't hung no black folks. Broken window don't equal a life taken..
But really, there would be this response no matter what happened.
Antifa is not some all-encompassing term for anyone against fascism. It's a specific extreme left-wing group.
That "Vegan ISIS" is a ridiculous characterization of Antifa is literally the joke - a joke aimed not at Antifa itself, but people cherrypicking instances of violence and vandalism to diminish Antifa's cause.
Saying Trevor was propagating an equivalency between Antifa and ISIS requires a ridiculously expansive conception of the term 'propagating'.
Oh c'mon. It was funny to frame Trevor Noah (of all people) as someone who positions themselves as a philosopher when they are secretly no better than a nightclub act... in response to a buncha people reacting to a clickbait nonsense headline where he was making a joke about people only caring about the surface level shit put right in front of them and nothing else.
Vigilant Walrus
Member
Is not equating ISIS to Antifa- It's highlighting that a certain point, both sides look really extremist and unreasonable, and at that point, it won't matter if one side is more worse than the other. It breeds more apathy and a general sense of "fuck all sides- nobody has this shit under control".
You see it with Israel versus Palestine, where one side is clearly and logically worse, but the other side never the less have done enough to make most people apathethic toward the situation, and has become unable to take a morale ground.
So many of you keep touting this "... but the other side is worse" as some sort logical rebuttal to excuse violence citing that other people are worse. You're taking your morales and excusing death on others like somehow that will resonate with half the other country who are completely unable to wrap their head around these concepts.
So yeah Trevor is right. You're judged by the worst shit you do. Your actions don't exist in a vacuum because your advisaries are someone special. Whatever separates you from them flies out the fucking window as soon as you start lynching those you don't like.
Hot Coldman
Banned
the right will find any excuse to label anti-fascist movements as violent and "against society", and they wield enough media power to convince enough people to believe them regardless of reality
Meanwhile anti-supremacy protesting has shut down well over 60 white nationalist rallies in the US in the last month
but yeah, public image is what's important.
Meanwhile anti-supremacy protesting has shut down well over 60 white nationalist rallies in the US in the last month
but yeah, public image is what's important.
This is exactly why I'm Pro Life! Everyone should be Pro Life!
He is propagating it in the direct sense, in that he is passing this idea on. Those same people that will cherry pick will simply cherry pick this "Vegan ISIS" term out of its context. He should have found a better way to make his point; one that isn't handing ammunition to the alt-right.
I mean, the people who fully get this joke already know who antifa is but to the majority of people who only heard about antifa recently, Noah has just linked them to Isis in a joke they probably won't get.
Kinda like Noam Chomsky criticizes the movement and then all these people who would be perfectly cool with him dying in a fire start using him as a voice of authority heh. But at least he wasn't handing them catchy slogans.
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