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Daily Show host Trevor Noah says people see Antifa as "Vegan Isis"
- Thread starter kitsunelaine
- Start date
Steeped in a Sea of Games
Member
Yes, everyone who fought a Nazi in WWII was indeed a monster. All those terrible allied soldiers lynching people they didn't like. If only they had your powers of reason they could have saved their souls.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
White supremacists literally killed a woman and lynched a man on video near a police station and self-proclaimed progressives will still drop their pants and bend over to complain about the people fighting them
sazzy
Member
give them some time
Did you know the Wolfenstein series is all about killing people who just disagree with you
hobblygobbly
Member
Antifa are not necessarily left wing terrorists but can be, again in Europe some groups fetishise some terrorist groups, but it's not something they all do. Antifa in Europe and like it is beginning the U.S is decentralised groups across each respective country and also various within regions of the country, it has various ideologies and not all of them are the same. There cannot be any generalising statement about it, left-wing ideology is much less "unified" than right-wing ideology is, for example the Trotskyists vs Stalinists/Maoists. You need to look at groups you know of in your local area and whether they are acceptable because not all of them are acceptable here in Europe such as the really authoritarian ones (Stalinists etc). Some antifa groups literally just show up to counter-protest nazis like pegida, usually with violence, and that's it, but some are much more ideologically driven, so it all depends.
These were actual left-wing terrorist groups that are widely known and I'm aware of, there are many more but they are not "Antifa" necessarily, again it's difficult to say, some will gladly praise these terrorists and fetishise them, many of them plan to carry out activities they talk about on left-wing forums, so some Antifa groups are extremist to the levels of terrorism, some aren't. This is why it's impossible to talk about Antifa as a general group. What a lot of these groups had in common is also wanting to overthrow the government, they were revolutionary groups. I made a post on my perspective/opinion on Antifa in Europe and Germany which you can read here since I don't want to copy/paste it here.
Germany:
Revolutionary Cells: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolutionary_Cells_(German_group)
Rote Zora (Militant feminist terror group and not "militant" in the way Internet manchildren use it, actual bombings): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rote_Zora
Red Army Faction: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Army_Faction
France:
Action Direct: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Action_directe_(armed_group)
Belgium:
Communist Combatant Cells: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_Combatant_Cells
Spain:
First of October Anti-Fascist Resistance Groups: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_of_October_Anti-Fascist_Resistance_Groups
These were actual left-wing terrorist groups that are widely known and I'm aware of, there are many more but they are not "Antifa" necessarily, again it's difficult to say, some will gladly praise these terrorists and fetishise them, many of them plan to carry out activities they talk about on left-wing forums, so some Antifa groups are extremist to the levels of terrorism, some aren't. This is why it's impossible to talk about Antifa as a general group. What a lot of these groups had in common is also wanting to overthrow the government, they were revolutionary groups. I made a post on my perspective/opinion on Antifa in Europe and Germany which you can read here since I don't want to copy/paste it here.
Germany:
Revolutionary Cells: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolutionary_Cells_(German_group)
Rote Zora (Militant feminist terror group and not "militant" in the way Internet manchildren use it, actual bombings): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rote_Zora
Red Army Faction: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Army_Faction
France:
Action Direct: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Action_directe_(armed_group)
Belgium:
Communist Combatant Cells: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_Combatant_Cells
Spain:
First of October Anti-Fascist Resistance Groups: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_of_October_Anti-Fascist_Resistance_Groups
kitsunelaine
Banned
I assure you it was a legitimate oversight. Please don't project malintent onto it.
Fox News made Code Pink to be traitorous anti-americans who give terrorists comfort at the expense of American troops.
The idea that if only people on the left behaved more politely, they would not be vilified by conservative outlets like Fox News is ridiculous (I know that's not that argument you're making, I'm using your post as a springboard to respond to this argument that is made quite often by serious centrists).
How much time? Because they are not new.
Garou
Member
Wtf, he didn't say "Antifa is Vegan ISIS".
He said that violent Antifa gets handled by right-wing media like terrorists, making their followers potentially regard Antifa as Vegan ISIS.
The segment itself was about not spoiling a potentially good idea with violence.
But sure, let's all jump to shitty headline-conclusions.
He said that violent Antifa gets handled by right-wing media like terrorists, making their followers potentially regard Antifa as Vegan ISIS.
The segment itself was about not spoiling a potentially good idea with violence.
But sure, let's all jump to shitty headline-conclusions.
As a European or indeed any person you have not endured shit by the people Trevor Noah is talking about. Context matters and what you are talking about is completely unrelated.
Thr worst antifa does here is punch nazis, mace people, throw rocks, and attempt to incite riots against people who literally murder them.
Over here they are antifa in name alone. It's becoming a catchall term for protester.
MDSVeritas
Member
Regardless of the conversation at hand I don't think it's a fair argument to suggest that just because a group takes a certain name denoting some specific value that you aren't allowed to disagree with the group because you hold that value.
There's a large history of groups using favorable naming terminology even if they don't represent some pure embodiment of those values (and no group ever would).
Whether you support them or not I believe it's reasonable to make a distinction between being against fascists and supporting a group with the name antifa.
So op's don't even have to read their own posts?
I have to ask have you actually met any face to face at all?
kitsunelaine
Banned
I think the distinction is about 9 letters
I'll edit again bit it is what it is.
This is a really naive way to think and comes across as basically stretching for a hot take to get into an argument for the sake of it honestly.
The alt right is gonna frame the left as terrorists anyways. They already do. They do what he said they do.
Like... we've got:
1. Nazis
2. Nazi sympathizers working in media
3. Bad actors damaging legit protests
4. People (in this thread!) being bad at consuming news
5. A popular website purposely misrepresenting a person's intent
6. A black comedian making a completely accurate joke about how the above 5 are so predictable
You really wanna go with "well he shouldn't be giving them ammo" compared to the other 5 groups?
kitsunelaine
Banned
Shit happens. And sometimes that shit is "Making bad threads." orz
Amen. And it's exactly the argument Trevor is making here whether he explicitly says it or not. The left time and time again falls for this "respectability" bullshit, when time and time again conservatives have proven their ability to vilify literally anyone for any reason.
Then again, I wrote Trevor off when he invited Tammy Lah-whatever onto his show for a "debate" and then took her out to dinner.
Maybe he's met them face to masked face? That's one of the things i don't like about what I've seen of Antifa whenever they're shown in media here in UK.
I don't think we really need to concern ourselves about giving right wing propaganda material.
If you have a million protesters and one guy who throws something through a window, they're going to make it look like that one guy is everyone. That's what they do.
You're arguing that the left needs to be absolutely perfect, and that's not going to happen. If some miracle happens and everyone is perfect, they'll just make some shit up instead.
Yes, absolutely, we can work on reducing pointless violence on the left, but we should do that when it's the right thing to do, not because it would give propaganda networks less material.
If you have a million protesters and one guy who throws something through a window, they're going to make it look like that one guy is everyone. That's what they do.
You're arguing that the left needs to be absolutely perfect, and that's not going to happen. If some miracle happens and everyone is perfect, they'll just make some shit up instead.
Yes, absolutely, we can work on reducing pointless violence on the left, but we should do that when it's the right thing to do, not because it would give propaganda networks less material.
Sooo... the right-wing media is all-powerful and controls public opinion, yet white nationalist rallies keep getting shut down by significantly larger counterprotester crowds? You don't think "public opinion" has anything to do with the size of those crowds and the fact that authorities allow them to gather? Or do you think those counter-protesters are all mask-wearing antifa eager to break windows and throw bricks?
Not that I disagree about the "right thing to do" part, but if pointless violence becomes the norm then your list of propoganda networks will expand to include a large number of mainstream media sources.
Having said all this, pointless violence at counterprotests is right now nowhere near the norm and there is no reason to think it will become the norm anytime soon.
So you are OK with fascism then?
Look at you being smart and reasonable and shit. Heat your takes up please. I need them hotter.
Agreed. Social justice is not achieved with violence.
Except you just kind of made that up.
kitsunelaine
Banned
Have you looked at a history book?
Do you think the Civil War was actually about state rights?
What about Stonewall? Or WWII?
And along the way, he pushes this bullshit image of antifa as a group whose main function is to break windows. And he can reach people Fox News can't.
Hi guys violence against fascists and and racist is bad, I mean look at these ANC terrorists fighting along side communist Cuba And Angola against the rightful apartheid government of South Africa.
What was ever achieved with violence against enthostate fuckheads?
They'll just label the opponents of racism as terrorists like the ANC and MK and we will never be free....
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umkhonto_we_Sizwe
What was ever achieved with violence against enthostate fuckheads?
They'll just label the opponents of racism as terrorists like the ANC and MK and we will never be free....
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umkhonto_we_Sizwe
In Germany we've been around Antifa for decades, I think they originated here and in the UK. While there are problems with the most militant people of their movement the way society deals with them is much more relaxed. Nobody here is scared of Antifa. So it's highly amusing to see America deal with their new thing that they've recently discovered. Looking at it from the outside it makes American politics and I'm sorry to say even society look totally backwards and amateur hour like. Grow up, people...
Well, of course but it doesn't mean they should be helped. It was a poor way for Noah to make his point. Besides, the battle is always for the middle, and all the people who only just heard of antifa who won't get the joke will likely only take away the comparison to Isis. But yeah, I don't think this bit on the Daily Show really matters that much. It's just disappointing.
I hate arguing, honestly.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
Honestly I think most of it comes from our brand of rising fascism being so closely intertwined with racism, specifically white supremacy, that the majority doesn't even have to consider part of their lives.
Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew
Banned
So regular ISIS hate Tim Hortons?
We the baddies?
We the baddies?
True, the race issues in America complicate things, that's a fair point I probably can't judge well not living there.
Haha, then why are you in the internet!?
Seriously though, I think there is some critiques that could be levied at Noah here (I think they are mostly a little over-eager though) but really you will never ever ever get anywhere trying to cater to idiots. Close to nobody who watched the actual bit had that take away.
The thing that created that take away was the person who wrote that headline (not dogpiling OP) but he'll get off Scott fucking free in comparison.
Steeped in a Sea of Games
Member
It's just the right trying to find more ammunition for the left to cannibalize itself with. There's a certain group of liberals who would literally rather get run over by a tank than fight for their ideals. They'll sink into the mud tut-tutting their own side while the actual enemy grinds them in with the heel of their boot. Or rather they'd live under their rule like cowards, contributing to the suffering they cause indirectly all while trying to tell themselves that their hands are clean. It's pathetic.
Yes. I know less about Noah and more about the format. My exposure to the Noah-led Daily Show are short snippets and still images he posts on social media. I said people should stop holding comedians talking about politics in high esteem.
I wasn't trying to make an ironic statement as meta-commentary to the thread. I was criticizing the format and saying people expect too much in terms of nuance and care from night club comics posing as political commentators. We see a lot of the opposite in television news and punditry today, political commentators attempting to be comedians.
I mean, there seem to be people who describe themselves as antifa who seem eager to break windows. There don't seem to be a large number of them and they don't seem particularly influential right now, but that doesn't mean those people should not be criticized. If there's one thing we should have learned from what has happened to the republican party over the last 20 years, its that if you neglect to criticize the nutters and extremists on your own "side" then shit can get real crazy real fast.
"Hey maybe minimize property damage and don't instigate violence" hardly seems like the left cannibalizing itself.
I've only had some biscuits today so I think I'm over-irritable at the moment, lol. I'm mostly hoping "Vegan ISIS" isn't as catchy as it sounds. I don't look forward to seeing that everywhere.
Steeped in a Sea of Games
Member
The problem is that Jon Stewart elevated The Daily Show above just being an act and inspired a whole lot of young people to fight for actual real social justice and equality. Trevor Noah has thrown it back into the bushes of pointless, empty rhetoric. It's hard to stomach.
kitsunelaine
Banned
If there's anything we can learn from last year's election, it's that if we spend too much time cannibalizing ourselves and caring too much about how the right think about us, we let them get away with it.
You're right I was about to change my post to be less absolute however I don't think we are at the point of Civil War yet. It should be a last resort. I prefer the tactics of non-violence.
The problem with the Republican party isn't that they "neglected to criticize" the nutters in the far right. The problem is that they utilized and stirred up their crazy in order to gain and maintain political power under the foolish belief that they'd always be able to control them. This was the Southern Strategy. Conservatives took those nuts and framed them as "Real Americans."
Wake me up when the left starts propping up the window breakers.
I think a lot of people on the left are still under the assumption that the right plays fair and that we don't have to be better than them if we are gonna hold a more nuanced footing and make a less tribal sales pitch.
Then I think others just wanna fight fire with fire.
I still (probably because I'm a bullshit centrist pussy coward amirite!?!?) think we have the unfortunate burden of having to better than them simply by the virtue that our coalition is more varied and change scares idiots, but it's frustrating and I understand the "fire with fire" crowd sometimes.
Shit is complicated. Social media and cable news I think renders using past movements as a model almost completely obsolete. We're in the Wild West.
Yes I have when I was younger many many years ago, used to buy weed from one. He was a violent lunatic who you did not want to get on the wrong side with!
The life for him and his friends basically circulated around beating up Nazis and they were proud Antifa-Members who even more proudly were talking about what they were up to.
So that was basically my first impression and sure, it might have colored my views of them somewhat wrong.
I am not saying that good Antifa-Members do not exist but exremists on all sides usually are not up to any good..
Truth to be told though I am not scared of Antifa compared to the inbred uncivilized Nazi-Dipshits.
kitsunelaine
Banned
Aye. I'm not sure if we're there yet, but I don't blame anyone who thinks we are. The grass may be greener on our side.
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