S
SpongebobSquaredance
Unconfirmed Member
if we apply the same rules, "you are only as good as the last thing you've did", to Jaffe, then Drawn to Death is all he has.
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David Jaffe to Phil Spencer: 'You suck...... get some therapy.'
- Thread starter SlimySnake
- Start date
- Clickbait
Setsuna Mudou
Member
GHG
Member
It's worse than people realise.
Phil was the Head of Xbox games studios between 2008-2014. Look at their 1st party record over that period of time, both in terms of studio management and game releases. It was literally the period of time when the Halo/Forza/Gears meme became a reality. He then got rewarded for this and got elevated into the position he's in today.
It's not just the last few years when it comes to studio management, we are talking about almost a decade and a half. He fell upwards.
Phil was the Head of Xbox games studios between 2008-2014. Look at their 1st party record over that period of time, both in terms of studio management and game releases. It was literally the period of time when the Halo/Forza/Gears meme became a reality. He then got rewarded for this and got elevated into the position he's in today.
It's not just the last few years when it comes to studio management, we are talking about almost a decade and a half. He fell upwards.
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Arcadialane
Member
A rare good point from David
kingfey
Banned
Meh. Like being outrage would do anything about this situation.
Its not worth my time.
Little Chicken
Member
Jaffe is fat and unemployed. He can't even manage his own life.
Aside from the two posts where you said Spencer needs to ‘hire and fire’ people under him? Or where you said he should get rid of some folks over these delays?
So Starfield gets delayed and you’re talking about him firing people. Which of his direct reports is responsible for Starfield?
I would say that it's just one man, but apparently many people are "worried" about the state of studios from a publisher, they won't never buy stuff from. It's quite interesting really.
GHG
Member
Oh please. He had a ton of resources between 2008-2014. Most importantly he had a bunch of very talented people and studios at his disposal over that period of time. It was the 360 era, they were in a good position.
Money doesn't make games, talent does. His job was (and still is) to nurture that talent and he's failed miserably. What's the excuse for this year? The guy who has spent close to 100 billion and current has 23 studios at his disposal needs more time and resources?
Wake up and smell the coffee.
Whitecrow
Banned
Not as bad as your reading comprehension.
David can explain 1000 times that this is an issue that Xbox had for a long time and its not a punctual case, that xbox is struggling a lot to put out games, and some people still reduce it to 'some games were delayed'.
No wonder Jaffe shits on gaf from time to time.
Craig of War
Banned
GHG
Member
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GHG
Member
Why is it always next year?
Zeroing
Banned
We do not know the future but assuming they sort things and manage to deliver, you are correct, people will forget and or forgive.
Badlucktroll
Member
I thought since Microsoft owns Bethesda, can’t they send in some experts to get these games polished and released in a timely manner?
Craig of War
Banned
Tiago Rodrigues
Member
I mean...this is true.
I know people keep waiting for Phil to turn things around...but the guy has been Xbox CEO since when? 2014? We're almost halfway to 2022...It's been 8 years and i keep hearing that.
Meanwhile Halo turned into a meme for multiple reasons including a huge delay like this, Gears is not the huge IP that it once was, Rare was on fire when making Nintendo games...MS acquires them and they finally managed one successful project in 20 years...
Imagine if it wasn't for Forza and Flight Simulator and a couple other games over the past 2 or 3 years...
How can you have all the money in the world and your latest huge exclusive released was the latest Halo that not only wasn't even released in full but it's also turning into a bit of a wasteland...and that was released only 6 months ago. The lack of games isn't going to be over any time soon as well.
About the Activision acquisition...congrats to them if they end up acquiring all those studios only to be working as a Call of Duty factory. Can't wait to see how MS will turn that huge ass company around when they couldn't do anything for some smaller ones.
Look at it this way: PlayStation studios have released more games for Xbox in 2022 than Xbox Studios have. (MLB The Show)
Dick Jones
Gold Member
Honest question would Todd Howard have announced 11.11.22 last Summer if he was not part of Xbox Division?
TheGodfather07
Member
You can never expect genuine honesty from any of these guys. It's their job to represent the corporation that employs them. You stick around long enough, people will start noticing that you say the same shit over and over again. Which is exactly what Phil Spencer has been doing. The problems with xbox management go much deeper than just him though.
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Shmunter
Member
The buck stops with him on gaming
Not sure how this makes sense, since he wasn’t in charge of Xbox from a funding and resources point of view in those years.
He had like 6 first party studios for the xbox one generation. Three of which were tied to the Halo, Gears and Forza franchises.
Publisher of the year 2021
Xbox is selling well, and Gamepass continues to be excellent value for subscribers. Doesn’t seem like any failure to me.
Yes. Talent takes time to make games. Imagine trying to paint a picture that the Starfield or Redfall delays are due to talent not being properly ‘nurtured’.
It took Guerilla 5 years to make a sequel to Horizon Zero Dawn. If Ragnarok releases this year, it’ll be at least 4.5 years post release of SSM’s last game. Ghost of Tsushima was in development for 6 years.
Games take time to make. A generation is a marathon, not a sprint. So trying to sum up Spencer’s first party expansion efforts with output in the first two years of release makes no sense.
Craig of War
Banned
MS is hands off and don't do crunch or interfere anymore
Bernd Lauert
Banned
I still don't get this narrative that Activision is shit and needs a complete revamp or something. Numbers tell us a different story. Activision made more profit last year than the entirety of Playstation (and Xbox, very likely), and this is with the last CoD semi-bombing and the Activision leadership being a total mess and the company being involved in several lawsuits and what not. They might not be making games which GAF enjoys (Diablo Mobile, puke emoji), but they're still a profit machine.
Most likely, yes.
Reminds me of when people accused EA of sabotaging Titanfall 2 by giving it a release date sandwiched between BF and COD…Until when Jason’s expose confirmed that the release date was driven by Respawn’s management.
You think an industry veteran like Todd was arm twisted into announcing that date? You think he doesn’t know the historical importance of holiday sales himself?
Setsuna Mudou
Member
@ Bold Can we see some receipts please? Smells like horse shit, but I wanna give you the benefit of the doubt
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The_Mike
I cry about SonyGaf from my chair in Redmond, WA
Fuz
Banned
Because awards are oh so meaningful.
Killer8
Member
Elden Ring took 5 years to develop. They were working on it since completing the Dark Souls III DLC. From Soft also have multiple teams and swap staff between projects.
I'd advise to look into how the developers are structured at MS Studios. Not every studio they own has the luxury of multiple teams, and the ones that do like Double Fine, Playground and Obsidian have already released something on Xbox. This thread seems to act like we've had nothing - Microsoft didn't become the highest rated publisher last year by releasing nothing.
Some of the teams MS bought only released their last game a couple of years ago (eg. The Outer Worlds team at Obsidian), so it's entirely reasonable they will need more time. Other teams like Ninja Theory are tiny - Hellblade 2 is supposedly being made by about 40 people. Then you have entirely new teams like The Initiative and Playgrounds's Fable team that have literally needed to be built from the ground up hiring 100s of staff. The former even needed to outsource Crystal Dynamics because they still didn't get the manpower.
As I said, people have extremely unrealistic expectations. There's also this weird idea that absolutely everything hinges on the 2022 release calendar. It's made to sound like Xbox is doomed, Phil has failed and needs therapy (retarded damage control itt by Jaffe btw), and all the acquisitions were for nothing.
Newsflash: MS are playing the long game. Think in terms of decades, not months. Perhaps they've calculated a weaker 2022 but a stronger 2023 and 2024 would be more preferable, since GP is raking in cash and the consoles are already selling out with 'no games' (GAF should really alert all those buyers they are wasting their money).
We're also on the verge of E3, so this entire discussion could end up being completely pointless. I mean Forza Motorport 8 is very likely to release in 2022 judging by Turn 10's timetable and if the recently leaked betas are anything to go by...
Whitecrow
Banned
Look no further that Spiderman MM and Ratchet and Clank. Not every game needs 5 years.Not sure how this makes sense, since he wasn’t in charge of Xbox from a funding and resources point of view in those years.
He had like 6 first party studios for the xbox one generation. Three of which were tied to the Halo, Gears and Forza franchises.
Publisher of the year 2021
Xbox is selling well, and Gamepass continues to be excellent value for subscribers. Doesn’t seem like any failure to me.
Yes. Talent takes time to make games. Imagine trying to paint a picture that the Starfield or Redfall delays are due to talent not being properly ‘nurtured’.
It took Guerilla 5 years to make a sequel to Horizon Zero Dawn. If Ragnarok releases this year, it’ll be at least 4.5 years post release of SSM’s last game. Ghost of Tsushima was in development for 6 years.
Games take time to make. A generation is a marathon, not a sprint. So trying to sum up Spencer’s first party expansion efforts with output in the first two years of release makes no sense.
Sonys output have been slow, but they at least get the job done. MS doesnt.
Bernd Lauert
Banned
$3.5B
That's for calendar year 2021. Playstation was at $2.6B profit in calendar year 2021. Xbox is unknown but likely lower than Playstation.
That's what I thought!
Mowcno
Member
Xbox's own studios have been terribly managed for years. That's allowed studios like 343 to balloon to extortionate sizes, require multiple other studios supporting their development and yet still delaying content and underdelivering. The forza series is basically the only thing MS has that delivers content of a consistent quality in a timely fashion.
They needed Bethesda and Activision. MS 1st party since 2013 has been and continues to underdeliver.
So I would agree, the time for marching these apologies out year after year has passed. You've spent a fortune since 2018 acquiring and it's time to start delivering. But not just that it's also time to get the studios you already owned in a good state. Don't just buy new, fix the decrepit underperforming studios you already own.
Xbox has had a 1st party problem for almost a decade now, the time for apologies is over.
They needed Bethesda and Activision. MS 1st party since 2013 has been and continues to underdeliver.
So I would agree, the time for marching these apologies out year after year has passed. You've spent a fortune since 2018 acquiring and it's time to start delivering. But not just that it's also time to get the studios you already owned in a good state. Don't just buy new, fix the decrepit underperforming studios you already own.
Xbox has had a 1st party problem for almost a decade now, the time for apologies is over.
Craig of War
Banned
If you make Phil mad he will whip out the credit card again and buy up your favorite studios/devs
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
Hey, at least after Jim Ryan's last email we know who really needs therapy.....wow lol
Just to add, I have regular therapy sessions and I think everyone should.
Just to add, I have regular therapy sessions and I think everyone should.
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Kokoloko85
Member
He’s not wrong. Phil’s a passive aggressive confused man
Nothing to do with the way the studio was run for most of Starfields development, sure. When MS aquires them some crazy hype building marketing bullshit happens and then we get fake promises from showcases. Phil Spencer in a nutshell.
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Elog
Member
He is spot on. MS has had huge problems in nurturing and retain creative talent across divisions for years (so not just gaming). Their forte is how to play the markets to create strong local monopolies with good pricing power (so business model development and marketing).
I have always hoped they would be able to turn this around and become either a good technology company or a strong creative company or both but have so far been disappointed. The weird part is all customers accepting this year after year for those products where you actually have a choice (i.e., it is hard to avoid MS Windows and Office products).
I have always hoped they would be able to turn this around and become either a good technology company or a strong creative company or both but have so far been disappointed. The weird part is all customers accepting this year after year for those products where you actually have a choice (i.e., it is hard to avoid MS Windows and Office products).
kingfey
Banned
Projects take time.
Xbox acquisition started in 2017 for their partners. Then extended to other publishers. The studios they bought has games released in 2018-2019.
And with nature of games taking 3-5 years in the process, it explains why they have slow releases now.
Not to mention covid delayed their trajectory.
People seem to forget that Xbox had 5-6 studios during Xbox one. That is 1-2 game per year from them.
Dick Jones
Gold Member
It's not his child anymore. If he was confident on 11.11.22 (if there was still no delay) he would likely have announced the date this Summer in line with his prior announcements. Why have it over a year and a half earlier? Bethesda can build hype in 6 months from announcement to launch
With Gamepass, Bethesda don't need to care about the holiday season anymore.
darkangel-212559
Banned
Metacritic means fuck all when the narrative from constant delays and studio mismanagement creates an impression that we are back in the Xbox One era.
I read somewhere else that your only ever as good as your next game. It doesn't matter what came out before, if in the future there never seems to be anything new.
Gafs obsession with Metacritc really needs to stop. All it does is disrupt what's actually going on here. A total clusterfuck of software development over at MS.
Coalition, Turn 10 and Playground Games put out games in 2-4 year cadence. I suppose those don’t count for you?
kingfey
Banned
These games don't count. You know that right?
So far, we have our typical outrage period.
I can understand this type of outrage, if we were on September. But we are really in May now. 6 months to go until 2023. Do people not understand the year is not over?
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