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David Jaffe to Phil Spencer: 'You suck...... get some therapy.'

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
I mean hes not wrong.

just saying jennifer love hewitt GIF

Of course davidjaffe davidjaffe has a good point. Some here need to realize that he's not ripping Phil Spencer. Just saying that he needs to hone in on things that he's good at and delegate the things that he's not good at.
 
You're not really making the compelling argument you think you are here.

• Your first point revolves around Spencer downplaying single player games, choosing instead to focus on live service games. You then suggest that this isn't what anyone wants, and therefore... would be a poor decision. You might've almost had a point if it weren't for Sony (who had no problem getting those singleplayer games out the door) following his exact steps... Only several years later.

• "Then it was backcompat". Same as above. They're all doing for money. However, yet again. We see Sony following along years later, and in regards to this point... Not doing so nearly as well.

• "Then it was gamepass." Surely you can see where this is going? MS has found some success with Gamepass, and in matter how hard you try to downplay it. Predictably, we see Sony changing course in order to offer something similar, as their previous strategy was an abysmal failure.

• They've spent billions buying "nearly every third party they can find". Assuming some Groundhog Day like scenario isn't playing out here, I'm seeing an obvious trend here. Who could've guessed that just like all the examples listed above. Sony following MS's footsteps and buying every 3rd party it can find... and afford.

So yeah, there's plenty of reasons to question Spencer's job performance. It's not even difficult to argue he hasn't performed well when it comes to games since taking over Xbox. Yet the way you go on about him, one would think that it was Spencer that railed your wife, and you despise him for her loving it or something.

How very odd seeing such loathing and failed arguments coming from someone who calls themselves "slicker than your average", though I admit you didn't specify exactly what "your average" refers to.
The thing is bud. Where are these live service games he speaks of?

Doesn't matter if Sony followed suit on backcompat - I'll call a spade a spade and I'll also call out Sony on anything as well. But we're not discussing Sony here, we discussing Phil and how his company reacts to the competition not how the competition reacts to Xbox. Back compatibly was brought out simply because they had no games coming out..

I didn't downplay gamepass I said they found something and stuck with it, try harder. But again you bring up Sony.

Yeah buying 3rd parties after 7 years of failures kinda sums Phil up. Lets literally just buy up all the competition. But ofc like clockwork you bring up Sony again. Yeah the competition is reacting to the richest software company in the world unnecessarily buying up all 3rd parties.. total shock.

Oh and the point that's being missed. Despite all these purchases over the last 3/4 years we are still hearing the same excuse - they're coming and give it time.


Your attempt to make a joke out of my name clearly backfiring; you must be below average then as I'm way too slick for you.
 
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DeepEnigma

Gold Member
Of course davidjaffe davidjaffe has a good point. Some here need to realize that he's not ripping Phil Spencer. Just saying that he needs to hone in on things that he's good at and delegate the things that he's not good at.
Thread title was pure paraphrased clickbait, and people ran with it based on emotional damages. There was definitely much more context and nuance.
 
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MiguelItUp

Member
I'll always respect Jaffe and appreciate him for the things he's done, and I get what he's saying. But I think constantly saying "he needs therapy" is quite a bit overly harsh. I don't think there's anything wrong with being so incredibly transparent about your opinions, I actually think it can be great. But it all depends on your delivery, and I think that this one could be worded better and not so negative.
 
A guy who looks like he's currently vlogging in the dark of his mother's basement criticizes a guy who pitches 60 billion dollar acquisitions and tries not to give his audience another cyberpunk 2077.

Jesus, the guy ripped off Devil may Cry and gave it an ancient Greece skin and now thinks he's fucking special.
Pretty ignorant af comment. Jaffe is certainly an insider still and has great insight.

Delivery can be off putting to a lot of people but you’re massively downplaying his industry know how. Phil Spencer is not above criticism lmao.

Also, first time Im hearing GoW is a DMC clone lol such bs the games are totally different.
 
I thought it was quite boring with bland level design (just my opinion) and undeserving of the award.
Grappling hook is very cool tho, but that was it for me. But let's be honest, grappling hook is gonna be cool no matter where you put it.
Honestly, for me, shooters like DUSK or DOOM Eternal are much more fun than the last Halo.

Nothing against you mate, but putting your opinions as facts, and the calling names on others... this hee ho thinks that's not cool at all.
No name calling here, guy just got triggered by the awesomeness that is Halo Infinite and that's a fact.
 

Zannrebel

Member
He doesn’t deserve credit or blame for either game’s development.

But he does take the blame for purchasing a publisher without games ready for his consumers. They should’ve purchased elsewhere, if possible.

He bought Bethesda knowing what the progress was on Deathloop (PS5 exclusive) GhostWire Tokyo (PS5 exclusive), Starfield, Redfall, all of them lol…

Edit: So tell me… Why buy them at the time knowing this? Why not make an offer to another publisher/studio and wait until ZeniMax had a steady flow into next-gen?
You realize they were working on a deal to buy them since like 2018 right?
 

Helghan

Member
For the same 2 games we have closely identified their brand with for eternity. Halo Forza wow. If they win in a year on a new IP, I will truly applaud them
Psychonauts, Flight Simulator. And what does it have to do with which games they released?

I also identify TLOU, HZD, Uncharted, God of War with the Sony brand. Should we not take them into account then?
 

Ozriel

M$FT
Gamepass is $9.99 (console or PC) and Gamepass Ultimate is $14.99.

If you want to factor discounts you need to factor how many people just converted to Gamepass using the 1$ trick, how many are abusing trials, etc. There is no way to know who is paying full price and who isn't so I'll just stick to the official price.

What are you on about?

MSRP for 12 months Xbox live gold is $60.

Buying 12 months of Gamepass is $120. Buying 12 months of Gamepass Ultimate is $180.

These are official prices.
 

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
davidjaffe davidjaffe I don't need to tell you, how kinda unprofessional this is, for someone of your stature in the industry, to publicly call out executives on social media, which could honestly start a snowball of dogpiling them.

You could have just called Phil and I'm sure he would have 5 minutes to hear you out.

Also, sets a bad example for current and future indie devs out there on how to behave with their colleagues.

Not cool, David. Not cool.

You think Phil is "REALLY" on Twitter reading every post that mentions him? LOL!
 

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
I'll always respect Jaffe and appreciate him for the things he's done, and I get what he's saying. But I think constantly saying "he needs therapy" is quite a bit overly harsh. I don't think there's anything wrong with being so incredibly transparent about your opinions, I actually think it can be great. But it all depends on your delivery, and I think that this one could be worded better and not so negative.

The problem is you people seem to think "getting therapy" is an attack. It's not!!! Therapy is normal and good for the mind and spirit.
 
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Zeroing

Banned
Reaching for memes over facts and logic is certainly an interesting approach.
Google did displayed that!

So if you choose to believe in everything a corporation says to you, that is your choice just don’t come in saying it’s “facts” and “logic”

the only fact is CEO talked! That is all!
 

MiguelItUp

Member
The problem is you people seem to think "getting therapy" is an attack. It's not!!! Therapy is normal and good for the mind and spirit.
You people? Lmao, I'm not losing my shit over it. Of COURSE therapy IS a phenomenal thing! Whoever thinks otherwise especially in 2022 should rethink somethings, lol. But he's not necessarily using it in the most positive way, haha.
 
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Ozriel

M$FT
Google did displayed that!

So if you choose to believe in everything a corporation says to you, that is your choice just don’t come in saying it’s “facts” and “logic”

the only fact is CEO talked! That is all!

Microsoft Gaming is now a major division at Microsoft. Way more investment in gaming at MS, including Mega acquisitions and expanded publishing deals. Huge overlap between Xbox and Azure, Satya’s baby. Gamepass subscriptions - tied heavily to xbox - now part of exec bonus targets.

And of course, Satya specifically calling out xbox sales success in an investors meeting.

You: “the CEO is probably lying and all these investments aren’t real “ 🤡
 

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
You people? Lmao, I'm not losing my shit over it. Of COURSE therapy IS a phenomenal thing! Whoever thinks otherwise especially in 2022 should rethink somethings, lol. But he's not necessarily using it in the most positive way, haha.

It is actually using it in the most responsible way. Jaffe's claim is that Phil's ego is standing in the way of him being a great exec. So far it seems like Jaffe thinks Phil is just doing a "good" job. To be great, he needs to let the ego go, and allow others to do what NEEDS to be done to make Xbox great!

And Jaffe's only answer to getting Phil to get out of his own ego is getting therapy. Which makes sense to me. There may be something here to be honest. Phil has been a person of power at Xbox since 2008. He's not new to this.
 

Zeroing

Banned
Microsoft Gaming is now a major division at Microsoft. Way more investment in gaming at MS, including Mega acquisitions and expanded publishing deals. Huge overlap between Xbox and Azure, Satya’s baby. Gamepass subscriptions - tied heavily to xbox - now part of exec bonus targets.

And of course, Satya specifically calling out xbox sales success in an investors meeting.

You: “the CEO is probably lying and all these investments aren’t real “ 🤡
You are way too invested to even realize what I was talking about! As usually not the first time you come at people on attack mode and aiming at personal “opinions”

not worth my time bro! Think what you like! If it makes you happy so be it!
 

jaysius

Banned
Laffy Jaffe tries so hard to stay relevant and to maintain some legacy value to his worthless brand, you made some good games dude, key word MADE, you're over, go to sleep.
 
The number of children in this thread freaking out over an offhand comment on an extemporaneous podcast episode is just shocking. Spencer has a lot to answer for in terms of the cadence of Xbox exclusives. That's a fact, and it's coming to a head with the Starfield delay because Sony has been releasing major blockbusters every few months. Instead of whining about whether Jaffe was mean to suggest therapy for Spencer, how about you actually address his point.
 
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davidjaffe

The Fucking MAN.
The problem is you people seem to think "getting therapy" is an attack. It's not!!! Therapy is normal and good for the mind and spirit.
100%. Therapy being some badge of shame is something people thought in the 70's and 80's. These days getting regular therapy or just a mental wellness check up/check in every now and then is as crucial as going to the dentist for a cleaning or a doctor for a physical.
 

WorldHero

Member
Bonnie, Matt Booty, Spencer all have to go. Jaffe is right. They continue to talk the good talk time and time again. Like when do we say enough is enough? I mean how are you going to launch Halo as a 10 year service game and have nothing lined up for months? What was the plan here? Now we are delaying seasons? Seasons? Why does she still have a job?

Matt booty has been head of XGS since what 2013 when Phil took over Don's job? How do you get to keep your job after launching with zero games? cross gen or otherwise and then punting the first two years? He was saved by Phil when they bought Bethesda and got two free exclusives for 2022, but the man had nothing lined up from ANY of his 16 studios. 16. and no next gen games for two years. now 24 including bethesda and nothing for the first two years.

Phil has been fine with acquisitions. Minecraft, Zenimax, Activision, Ninja Theory, Playground Games, Obsidian, the man knows how to spend money, but he cant keep stringing us along year after year. At some point, someone has to go.

Get Shawn Layden. He was done dirty by Sony and Jim Ryan. The man knows how to run productive studios. He will go up against Jimbo with extra motivation and just kill it. I am sure of it. Stay away from talky used car salesmen types like Phil Harrison, Reggie, Jack Tretton and Herman Hurst. Go for guys who dont like to talk and just know how to get shit done. I am tired of excuses and being talked down to.
Great points. MS management really needs a shake up.
 

kungfuian

Member
What's surprising to me is the fact that Jaff is responding to a PR quote that was 100% written by some PR firm. If you think Phil Spencer takes time out of his day to write Twitter posts your out of your fucking mind. It's the Microsoft PR machine that people are responding to, not Phil, and with good reason because it's the same disingenuous PR Bullshit consumers hate.

Microsoft are in this mess because they failed at the good ol business 101 lesson of under promise and over deliver. If you hype something and it doesn't end up good (game quality, release dates) then you piss people off. And canned PR statements written by a PR robot make it worse. Why is it so hard for the Microsoft team to just shut the fuck up and make good games?

On a side note, I totally agree with Jaff in the sense that the Microsoft leadership is way behind it's competitors in their ability to manage creative teams and actually produce software of similar quality to their competitors. They definitely need a shake up or restructuring to manage as many teams as they have taken on.

Will be interesting to see how this all pans out over the next few 'best years ever'.
 

ClosBSAS

Member
Lol come on op...seriously? Lmao. Phil had to save Xbox's ass from some really bad management. It's not going to be overnight. Phil si doing fine. He is not mismanaging anything. Maybe he wanted things to go faster and smoother but games take time to develop and we are cartainly not taking any bs anymore from devs. They had a very good year. Don't see the need to side with jaffe here at all.

Sounds and reads like another Sony vs Ms thread where Sony ppl finally seem to have found a valid argument on why they think Xbox sucks.
 
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jaysius

Banned
To be fair, Phil never made a game! So….
Jesus, to be fair that's not even logic you're using here, Phil NEVER WAS a GAME DESIGNER.

This is like saying "Steak has more protein than an apple"

Sometimes the internet brings you some incredible nuggets of anti-wisdom... thank you for the daily nugget.
 
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Zeroing

Banned
Jesus, to be fair that's not even logic you're using here, Phil NEVER WAS a GAME DESIGNER.

Sometimes the internet brings you some incredible nuggets of anti-wisdom... thank you for the daily nugget.
You just told him to go to sleep… aren’t we making joking posts?
 
100%. Therapy being some badge of shame is something people thought in the 70's and 80's. These days getting regular therapy or just a mental wellness check up/check in every now and then is as crucial as going to the dentist for a cleaning or a doctor for a physical.
I don't think you did anything wrong by suggesting Spencer get therapy, but I strongly disagree here. Therapy for most people is a poor replacement for the deep bonds of family and community that sustained human beings prior to modern capitalist alienation. There's a reason the US, one of the most socially alienated and neoliberal countries on earth, is also one of the most hypertherapized. For most people (obviously there are exceptions), therapy is a bandaid: it keeps them chugging along as a productive little cog in the same capitalist machine that made them depressed in the first place. What would actually fix people's problems is shorter working hours, longer vacations, better pay, better social benefits, more time with family and friends, denser cities or healthy small towns where you can walk (not drive!) from home to work to the park/bar to home, and so forth. But a happy, emotionally fulfilled, well-paid workforce working 35-hour weeks and taking August off would reduce the amount of money flowing to the oligarchs in the top tenth of one percent, so what we get is therapy and pharmaceuticals instead.
 
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A.Romero

Member
I'm having a hard time understanding all this controversy regarding the delays. So if EA puts out a crappy product named Battlefield 2042 because they wanted to be out for the holidays they are shit. If CDPR does the same with Cyberpunk 2077 people can't shut up about it for years. But then a studio actually respects that and decides to delay products until they meet a certain quality level, people still get mad?

I mean, it's not like they are charging you for it right now. Their approach to gamepass lets you cancel the sub if there are no games that you want to play and restart whenever you want or don't restart at all. You don't even need to spend money on a console anymore. There is zero commitment required from consumers anymore.

These positions are not elected or anything like that, IMO it's beyond stupid to demand a person to be removed from their job just because you feel angry game output is not as good as you want. Nadella is the only person that is in a position to really know what's up and he is killing it with Microsoft overall. I'd be surprised he was just not seeing the average gamer is seeing wrong with the Xbox brand.
 

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
What's surprising to me is the fact that Jaff is responding to a PR quote that was 100% written by some PR firm. If you think Phil Spencer takes time out of his day to write Twitter posts your out of your fucking mind. It's the Microsoft PR machine that people are responding to, not Phil, and with good reason because it's the same disingenuous PR Bullshit consumers hate.

Microsoft are in this mess because they failed at the good ol business 101 lesson of under promise and over deliver. If you hype something and it doesn't end up good (game quality, release dates) then you piss people off. And canned PR statements written by a PR robot make it worse. Why is it so hard for the Microsoft team to just shut the fuck up and make good games?

On a side note, I totally agree with Jaff in the sense that the Microsoft leadership is way behind it's competitors in their ability to manage creative teams and actually produce software of similar quality to their competitors. They definitely need a shake up or restructuring to manage as many teams as they have taken on.

Will be interesting to see how this all pans out over the next few 'best years ever'.

My guy......Phil was in charge of that PR quote going out. You think they typed that up for him and posted it without him reading it and agreeing to it?
 
Laffy Jaffe tries so hard to stay relevant and to maintain some legacy value to his worthless brand, you made some good games dude, key word MADE, you're over, go to sleep.
Gotta love people that have made literally nothing for this medium criticizing an industry legend for giving his opinion... on the industry they're an expert on. I don't agree with 100% of his takes, but the guy is independent and speaks his mind, unlike corporate suits that have to parrot the official company policy.
Blemish the thought of anyone criticizing saint Phil, gotta shut that shit down immediately :messenger_tears_of_joy:
 

jaysius

Banned
Gotta love people that have made literally nothing for this medium criticizing an industry legend for giving his opinion... on the industry they're an expert on. I don't agree with 100% of his takes, but the guy is independent and speaks his mind, unlike corporate suits that have to parrot the official company policy.
Blemish the thought of anyone criticizing saint Phil, gotta shut that shit down immediately :messenger_tears_of_joy:

Ok well now this is at least a logical fallacy that's common Ad hominem.

You never made any games either, so you can't comment on anything Jaffee says(using your logic).
 
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mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
I don't think you did anything wrong by suggesting Spencer get therapy, but I strongly disagree here. Therapy for most people is a poor replacement for the deep bonds of family and community that sustained human beings prior to modern capitalist alienation. There's a reason the US, one of the most socially alienated and neoliberal countries on earth, is also one of the most hypertherapized. For most people (obviously there are exceptions), therapy is a bandaid: it keeps them chugging along as a productive little cog in the same capitalist machine that made them depressed in the first place. What would actually fix people's problems is shorter working hours, longer vacations, better pay, better social benefits, more time with family and friends, denser cities or healthy small towns where you can walk (not drive!) from home to work to the park/bar to home, and so forth. But a happy, emotionally fulfilled, well-paid workforce working 35-hour weeks and taking August off would reduce the amount of money flowing to the oligarchs in the top tenth of one percent, so what we get is therapy and pharmaceuticals instead.

I agree with the bolded, but why would you put therapy and pharmaceuticals in the same sentence? It makes no sense.
 

Nickolaidas

Member
The problem is you people seem to think "getting therapy" is an attack. It's not!!! Therapy is normal and good for the mind and spirit.

100%. Therapy being some badge of shame is something people thought in the 70's and 80's. These days getting regular therapy or just a mental wellness check up/check in every now and then is as crucial as going to the dentist for a cleaning or a doctor for a physical.
It is an attack when you are saying it in order to insinuate the other person is insane.
 
I agree with the bolded, but why would you put therapy and pharmaceuticals in the same sentence? It makes no sense.
Because they're the same thing (I'm specifically referring to antidepressants and the like). These are tools that capitalism uses to keep people quiescent instead of questioning why exactly it is that their lives are so hard when Jeff Bezos is shooting himself into space on their dime. Obviously therapy isn't nearly as bad for you as SSRIs or whatever, but this is the same medical-industrial complex profiting off your suffering and selling you a phony "cure" that serves only to distract you from the actual root cause.
 

Ozriel

M$FT
He is literally the Xbox brand's mascot and hero worship to the most loyal fans. He isn't going anywhere.

Also a lightning rod for some of GAF’s increasingly desperate console warrior contingent.

Microsoft are in this mess because they failed at the good ol business 101 lesson of under promise and over deliver. If you hype something and it doesn't end up good (game quality, release dates) then you piss people off.

Precisely why they’ve delayed the game to improve quality. To avoid pissing their customers off.


And canned PR statements written by a PR robot make it worse. Why is it so hard for the Microsoft team to just shut the fuck up and make good games?

You’re seriously saying they should have delayed the game without even releasing a statement? 😂

On a side note, I totally agree with Jaff in the sense that the Microsoft leadership is way behind it's competitors in their ability to manage creative teams and actually produce software of similar quality to their competitors. They definitely need a shake up or restructuring to manage as many teams as they have taken on.

Meanwhile, many of the folks clowning here are seriously excited about Hogwarts Legacy despite delays. Nobody’s pointing at delays for BOTW 2 as evidence for ‘mismanagement’.

Will be interesting to see how this all pans out over the next few 'best years ever'.

We’ll probably know from next month’s showcase.
 

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
It is an attack when you are saying it in order to insinuate the other person is insane.

He never said he was insane. You do know mental health...............is just health right? It's no different than going to a doctor for a sprained ankle.

Because they're the same thing (I'm specifically referring to antidepressants and the like). These are tools that capitalism uses to keep people quiescent instead of questioning why exactly it is that their lives are so hard when Jeff Bezos is shooting himself into space on their dime. Obviously therapy isn't nearly as bad for you as SSRIs or whatever, but this is the same medical-industrial complex profiting off your suffering and selling you a phony "cure" that serves only to distract you from the actual root cause.

They are 100% NOT the same thing. I hate that we still live in a world that thinks literally talking to someone is the same as taking antidepressant drugs.
 

Kacho

Member
Sounds and reads like another Sony vs Ms thread where Sony ppl finally seem to have found a valid argument on why they think Xbox sucks.
These criticisms have existed for years under Phil's watch and it's just getting more amplified. The faithful running damage control can keep parroting the "publisher of the year" nonsense, but until things change dramatically the discontent will get louder and louder. The goodwill is running out fast.
 
Ok well now this is at least a logical fallacy that's common Ad hominem.

You never made any games either, so you can't comment on anything Jaffee says(using your logic).
Oh fuck, it's 2006 again, we're about to wrongly point out logic fallacies...

You were the one actually using an ad hominem on Jaffe, implying that he's not being genuine in his criticism and somehow indicating his opinion is not worth hearing because... he left the gaming industry after achieving huge success? Argue the point he made at least, if you can...

What a stupid double take you had, on him and on my comment as well :messenger_tears_of_joy:

No, I also haven't made any game, which is why I appreciate the insight of those that have, maybe I can learn a thing or 2 about the industry I'm just a fan and a consumer of.
 
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