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DF: The Matrix Awakens Tech Analysis + PS5 vs Xbox Series S/X Performance Analysis
- Thread starter onQ123
- Start date
Physiognomonics
Member
Nope. That was debunked by Epic boss himself in a tweet. But ask youself, why didn't they release the first demo on PC or Xbox and why they needed to create different demos (a heavily downgraded one then a new with Matrix) if the first demo could run on a PC / Xbox with regular SSD?First demo runs on a shitty laptop SSDNice try though.
ToTTenTranz
Banned
AFAIK Nanite only virtualizes cey small triangles below 4x4 pixels or something. The rest are running through primitve/mesh shaders and the regular triangle setup hardware which is running at a higher clock on the PS5.
Unlike the other two demos, there's a lot of very large triangles here due to the buildings.
Because reallistically most people can't find the PS5 DE for less than 700€ but the Series S is available and has been getting discounted, like Amazon ES selling it right now for 280€.
I thought this was releasing on the PC at some point. If they do, at least a 6800XT / 6900XT shoild get 60FPS under the same conditions.
Bend most probably will. Is there another Microsoft Studio using Unreal Engine other than The Coalition?
oh cmon when running inside the car the PS5 drop ill 24fps exactly like the X the console run the demo exactly the same ...I don't know how many other factual proof people need to understand that all the PR about the i / o during the first demo of the PS5 was simply something deliberately pushed by Sony to push a quality of the console that could not be taken by the competition with a "we have it too".
This is ue5 a demo (not scripted) developed specifically by Epic for consoles and runs exactly (1fps difference which is clearly not related to hw) the same.
rofif
Banned
I am not comparing consoles against each other. Both have direct IO integration.
PC don't. I wonder how it will run on pc
nope ..he lied the demo on PC is heavier than the PS5 one (officially stated) and run on without problem on potato ssd
assurdum
Banned
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nope ..he lied the demo on PC demo is heavier than the PS5 one (officially stated) and run without problem on potato ssd (also on old HDD)
absolutely yes ...at least with regard to ue5 the engine proves(both on the PC demo and on this one) not to improve its performance substantially with regard to the I / O difference. so yes clearly it was MoSTly pr. the engine have requirements to work and exceeding those it needs, does not seem to scale
the i/o advantage regard ue5 at this point is completely debunked (with data's and proof)
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GHG
Member
No.
The Coalition made some changes to the way that certain things were done at an engine level and Epic liked them so decided to import those changes to the main branch. Thus every platform that is capable of running the engine benefits.
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assurdum
Banned
Can you point me out where in the first UE5 presentation Epic ever talked about the I/O advantage of ps5 hardware? Because I could swear they haven't a single time. Who lied about the pc demo exactly? Do you have a single clue of what we talking about or it's always the same story with you who have the bad habit to talk about things you barely get it?
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there were months and months of back and forth regarding the demo developed by Epic for Sony and how this could not have run on other devices that reflected the requirements of UE5 at the same quality as the PS5 due to its i / o. Previously on PC it was noticed that UE5 streaming does not need incredible performance but average ssd but it was not possible to make a direct comparison since it was still a different demo. Now and with a comparative demo (the same) on both platforms .. it has finally been revealed that doubling the l / o does not help engine performance, indeed it does not help improve performance generally seen that the PS5 despite having double the i / o of the x loses the exact same frames per second.
This does not mean that the PS5 loses its peculiarity .. its first party teams maybe with their engines will take advantage of the speed of the I / O but .. as far as ue5 is concerned, no PC with SSD and all new console they have no problem and can run the exact same scenes at the same quality (obviously varying the performances with respect to the power of the gpu)
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assurdum
Banned
They never said anything like that. You misunderstood what some people said there to what Epic really said. UE5 is a multiplat engine not a dedicated one for the ps5, it should work the same on all the hardwares.
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i don't want to go back and serve crows ..but there were tons of people and whole threads about it. I'm sure you will have no problem finding posts where people said "it's only possible on PS5 thanks to the amazing I / O"
But instead just like I said and
VFXVeteran
the GPU will be the bottleneck long before we talk about i / o
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assurdum
Banned
I ask to you what really Epic said about ps5 and UE5. Because it's you who said they lied intentionally during the first presentation just to promote the ps5 hardware. Don't hide behind to what people said there.
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go on Sweeney Twitter and check how many lies he wrote ...even making one of the engineers of the engine look stupid
Silent Viper
Banned
No 60fps. Fuck this demo. No way im going back to 30fps now.
Physiognomonics
Member
assurdum
Banned
Sweeney said ps5 has hardware customisation/efficiency absent on normal pc, never said UE5 was impossible to run on pc; he just laughed about the demo who should run in a portable pc with lower specs with the same graphic setup of the ps5, as some people tried to argue at the time. You see how you lack of comprehension with such stuff?
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Spinning on the spot wont load data in and out the way unreal engine 5 world partion system works, it loads cells based on position. If a game has raytracing you can't really drop data that's not in field of view either, then your rays are going to have no data to bounce into that's not onscreen so you may aswell just use screen space effects at that point.
Riky
$MSFT
"After coalition's optimisation on FFT bloom they contributed back to us + some other other optimisation made, the FFT bloom runs at quarter res on XSX and PS5 and ends up 2x faster than old gaussian bloom."
It seems to be the bloom implementation that's been included in UE5 from this work.
Fredrik
Member
Yeah… The scale, density, graphics, textures, details are all amazing but I’m more excited about the future of PC gaming than console gaming after playing around with this demo. Seems like this is exactly what PC gaming needed.Immediately had flashbacks of the PS3/Xbox 360 era frame-rate when seeing this, tbh.
rofif
Banned
Believe or not, 360 era had worse framerateImmediately had flashbacks of the PS3/Xbox 360 era frame-rate when seeing this, tbh.
This is just focusing on best possible graphics and runs 30 more often than not when not crashing in other cars
If we really want to say it all who has no idea what he says and that objective was exactly one of those who in those famous threads shouted at the impossibility of the demos made for Sony to run on other devices at the same quality was you (with others). I waste time with you and I'll put you on ignore also because I don't like how you go personally ... I never said that you don't have the basis to talk about certain things (even if it is evident) I don't understand how you can point the finger at others.
To your knowledge the demo ran on the laptop .. the idea of an engine engineer talking about the resolution and how many framerate per second a video running on a laptop had ... is as stupid as your answers and an insult to human intelligence. Bye
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GHG
Member
I'm talking about the non-platform specific optimisations, which is what that tweet is talking about. Hence he's referring to the "engine version".
Although there is a possibility that if they've done sone Xbox Series specific optimisations they could also have been merged, with a view to other developers making Xbox games using the engine in the future being able to benefit.
azertydu91
Hard to Kill
So Sweeney lied but the reddit video showing a media player in a badly translated chinese AMA is a better source ?Sounds legit.
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Md Ray
Member
True. I'm not complaining at all, I'm actually happy they're trying to push these systems to their max even if it meant choosing 24fps for the cinematics with further dips into low 20s during those intense collisions during gameplay. I really wanted to see what the Zen 2 CPUs in these systems were capable of when pushed harder, I know it's still not fully optimized and I'm sure there's still a ton of room for improvement on the CPU side. Very curious to see how it all shakes out in the coming years.Believe or not, 360 era had worse framerate
This is just focusing on best possible graphics and runs 30 more often than not when not crashing in other cars
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It was an interview with an engineer from the engine. The lie was clear for everyone and honestly no a new behaviour from Sweeney ...honestly only those who wanted the PS5 to have a special sauce at all costs needed to believe that the demo could not run on a notebook with a normal Samsung SSD opposed this reality. Now all the data show that the engine doesn't need huge i / o and the doubling the i / o gives you no performance advantage. You will understand for yourself how highly probable it is then that the engineer was telling the absolute truth of that Demo running on a rtx2080 (More powerful GPU than the PS5) with Samsung evo SSD
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Md Ray
Member
This means a typical SATA SSD with 500 MB/s read speeds would get maxed out when targeting 60fps on PC.
Physiognomonics
Member
The problem is not the bandwidth. The problem is the latency.
Md Ray
Member
Latency of the SSD, you mean?
t
Clearly the latency compared to what a hdd have would be huge but in fact it is clear that ue5 is created to take advantage of the access speed of the new nvme SSDs but going overkill we seeing that the lower latency are not giving any advantage to the PS5 so probably also that is only a theory created by users.It is clear that regarding the I / O the only need of UE5 is the SSD. The rest of the performance is given by the capabilities of the GPU and CPU
yamaci17
Member
you're not buying gpu/tflops with consoles or laptops or any desktop computers, really. you're buying a complete package. the actual cost of the other elements of a console/laptop/pc costs huge.
every package will have a baseline cost. this will include the engineering, housing, power supply, cpu, mainboard and such.
its quite possible that all three consoles probably have like a baseline cost of 200 dollars. theoritically, even if they release a console with 0.5 tflops, it would still cost 150-200 dollars, because a system is not only about GPU. we can see this pattern with laptops. even the worst laptops with hideous iGPUs are not super cheap, and its not super expensive to get GPU upgrades over them.
say we accept 200 dollars as a baseline cost for mainboard, memory modules and zen 2 cpus in these consoles.
that leaves
100 dollar price paid for the gpu of series s (25 dollar per flops)
300 dollar price paid for the gpu of series x (25 dollar per flops)
200 dollar price paid for the gpu of ps5 (20 dollar per flops or 25 dollar per flops for bluray version)
Rivet
Member
Game devs have teams much bigger than the one which worked on this demo and they also have years to work on it and much higher budgets. Plus, UE5 is just starting, it will be improved too.
Games will look and run a lot better than this demo. I'm pretty sure we'll get 60 fps UE5 games on consoles looking as good as that.
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OmegaSupreme
advanced basic bitch
Md Ray
Member
This is false. They have worked on XSX when they made UE5 Valley of the Ancient demo for Xbox Series X.
Unreal Engine 5 First Xbox Series X Footage Shown, Free Early Access and Demo Available
Unreal Engine 5 is available for anyone to play with, right now! Check out an impressive new demo running partly on Xbox Series X!
wccftech.com
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Snake29
RSI Employee of the Year
Who cares? The only thing we know is that the demo was running in a media player. How do we even know if the demo can run on a "normal" laptop. A laptop is the same a pc....to much different configurations.
Zathalus
Member
Did you watch the same video I did? They compare it to DVD vs Blu-ray and were laughing about it.Jesus Christ when Leadbetter talked about the native resolution on series S; they spent almost 5 minutes act like
I though DF was a passionate tech channel, not a marketing defence team for the MS hardware choice
What?
That has nothing to do with the greater or lesser experience of Epic with one or another console, which is what was discussed here for me and that you clearly misinterpreted or just intentionally misrepresented.
Here what is being demonstrated is clearly the feelings that I expressed in that post. That the optimization work of TC in XSeries was essential to have a decent version (especially of XSS) of a demo that Epic had created. That then Epic when optimizing the PS5 version (with which it undoubtedly has more experience) is free to use the same engine optimizations created by TC for the XSeries is a different thing.
From here, it is clear that when you go to point out preferences at the origin of my argument, you are only discovering yourself ..... "The thief thinks that they are all of his condition ...."
nemiroff
Gold Member
It wasn't debunked, it was a red herring as usual by a disingenuous Sweeney (clinging to the exclusive PR collaboration with Sony). NO ONE claimed that the demo ran on the computer Epic China had in the studio at the time (that was the red herring by Sweeney, and yes he threw his own people under the bus, he is a cold MF), the question about the demo performance arose when taking viewer questions and the Epic China engineers was talking about their experience and made a reference to running the demo on a laptop in their lab. SImple as that. I guess it's understandable that the smoke layering by Sweeney confused some people though, the guy is infamous for being brilliant yet unscrupulous.
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DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
that what the photo say not what the engineer said ...."normal" was just about the Samsung SSD and generally about the laptop i/o ....the rtx 2080 is already more powerful than the PS5 GPU. Now there are enough evidence that the biggest limiting factor in ue5 is still the GPU so it goes without saying that the PS5 demo (after watching the Matrix demo go down to 21fps @ 1080p) could clearly run on a laptop with rtx 2080 and SSD. it's logic ..guys
And to what you say I add that it is an engine still in development, with many optimizations to show, that the level of damage in vehicle collisions is fantastic (affect more to the framerate). The demo beyond those situations works relatively well if it were already a game and extraordinarily well for what are usually technical demos that drive the technology to the maximum.Believe or not, 360 era had worse framerate
This is just focusing on best possible graphics and runs 30 more often than not when not crashing in other cars
PS.An example: A few months ago you were on XSX and PS5 it was a chimera to see in UE5 Ray tracing. Now you have RT GI+Reflections+ shadows while maintaining the same performance. It is a great sign that the optimization and finishing of UE5 is on track.
nemiroff
Gold Member
Maybe. But I for one would keep my expectations in check.. The 16.67 millisecond budget is real, and with severe dips and the cropped resolution on a tech demo I'm not sure how much room is left when the gfx budget needs to be shared by full non-rails gameplay mechanics. Let's hope, and we'll see.
They stated they left at least CPU time for game logic , because they want to show games are capable of these graphics , whether people believe this statement from the devs is up to them.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
They called the Series S version equivalent to a VCD.
Anyone whose old enough to have seen/used VCD's knows that's a sizable diss, lol.
Not sure but it feels like some users just want DF to make dedicated segments to shit on consoles they don't like.
RoadHazard
Gold Member
There's only RT shadows in the 24fps cinematics I believe (to create the soft shadows in the character close-ups), not in the gameplay. But yeah, it's definitely doing a lot more with RT than many thought would be possible on these consoles.
It’s in gameplay , rt reflections and shadows , together with Ssr, it in the DF video. Even a extra bounce in the calculations.
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