mansoor1980
Member
i want a cyberpunk 2077 remaster using this engine on ps6 and the next xbox
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DF: The Matrix Awakens Tech Analysis + PS5 vs Xbox Series S/X Performance Analysis
- Thread starter onQ123
- Start date
This is what i told you in the other tread, the console deployable version of unreal is the same goddamn engine but you just deploy it to your target platform. That's it! Any modifications/optimization for your target hardware will be done by the specific team for their specific game. The engine itself plays no favorites.
El Pistolero
Banned
Because most Sony studios will not be using UE5.
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
Imagine if this had launched exclusively on ps5. This whole thread would be how the series x couldn't even run it I bet. And the power of the io.
Must mean it's using the SSD like memory to store AI data?
TheGodfather07
Member
so i hear the PS5 has a staggering advantage of.. 1fps!
Cerny somehow able to close a 2tf gap with his wizardry.
Cerny somehow able to close a 2tf gap with his wizardry.
MasterCornholio
Member
Where can I get a doctorate in that?
MasterCornholio
Member
I think they said it ran off a PS5. But it isn't a playable demo like the Matrix one.
Edit: Take into account the first demo was linear so they could definitely push the visuals in other areas. If that demo was a huge openworld (like the Matrix demo) im sure some visuals would take a hit.
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ReBurn
Gold Member
Probably just metadata about each object and its last known position when it went out of context.
Epic Sax CEO
Banned
What they contribute is not "optimizations" for the metal, it's just new ways to do things that may be more efficient. Bloom was done in a way, now it's done in another way, one that looks better and needs less processing. This can be view as an "optimization", but it's not "optimization to the metal" like the studio can make when working on their games to the in-house machines.
It's just a case of a studio that have early access to Epic's engines and helps them test in a more real world scenario and give feedback during the development so that Epic can know what they need to fix before releasing the engine.
They should.
Will not be funny if all Microsoft first party start using this while Sony have to expend huge amounts of money and man power to develop other and possible inferior engines.
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Portugeezer
Gold Member
I haven't heard MS touting the "most powerful console" line in a while, they were going pretty hard with it before launch.
Imtjnotu
Member
El Pistolero
Banned
To quote a Beyond3D user I interacted with 15 years ago "We should aim for photo-surrealism, instead of photo-realism". I much prefer the aesthetics of the original demo to the uncanny valley look of this one.
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yes which is not something that was being mentioned until some people just threw in their wild comments
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
Don't think the math would work out exactly like that, a higher framerate shouldn't make you move through the world faster. If you have the game running at 30hz and 60hz, a car going 100km/mph in both modes will travel the same distance through the world. But a 7200rpm mechanical drive tops out at like 100MB/s so it needs an ssd that's for sure.
Imtjnotu
Member
Shmunter
Member
We need more info on this. There’s a lack of clarity around this, is it a 10mb stream buffer -or- assets are merely being streamed at 10mb/s - Because we may as well just go to spinning sata drives then…...huh?!?
A small streaming buffer on the other hand coincides with very fast streaming as less buffer reserve is needed if assets can be loaded from i/o fast. You don’t need to keep in ram what you don’t see.
Something is at odds here.
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Shmunter
Member
Yeah, what was with driving miss daisy on X in the vid right after John states fast traversal is the stress point. On PS5 the vid is literally breakneck speed while demolishing car after car in the process.
Are they saving performance comparisons for future vid?
Or the game state freezes outside of your view.
Romulus
Member
Hoddi
Member
It's only a ~25GB demo so I don't think it's too surprising. The UE5 demo on PC had a similar size but you plowed through it in just 2-3 minutes. The absolute peak IO rate in that demo was only like 2-300MB/s with most of it being well below that.
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Fredrik
Member
Yeah it’s gonna be an eye-opener I think, they can’t really lower the resolution much further so what we see here won’t likely happen in 60fps.
The Coalition is dabbling with this demo, it’ll be interesting to see what path they take, I’m guessing next Gears will go back to 30fps on console. Fortunately they’re there on PC too so we’ll still get 60fps that way. Same goes for Sony’s 1st party stuff even if it’ll take a little longer.
I’m divided on this.
At times I think it looks absolutely mindblowing and I want all devs to use UE5 now. The lighting, the details, the reflections, the scale, it’s insanely impressive.
Going back to Halo Infinite for example is rough. Jumped back into Ratchet real quick, rough. Just started playing Kena, rough even with that sweet Pixar style. It’s suddenly rough spots everywhere now.
But then again when you jump into a car or fly with the cam it’s a stutterfest and I want nobody to use this engine. And if you go check into windows at the skyscraper offices they look like something from the PS2 era. Great first impression but it’s not something suitable for all games.
I don’t know what I want. If devs jump in left and right on UE5 and set the bar at 30fps then the solution is to play on PC I guess. Problem is, I’m not interested in playing everything on PC…
In short, I’m impressed by the possibilities of the engine and where gaming at large can go, but I’m scared of what it means for console gaming.
You’re on a core gamer board, people here aren’t talking much about the Series S version because most have either PS5 or Series X or both. For what it’s worth, if anything I’m impressed by what that little box can do. It’s not for me though.
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SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
I think as a tech demo, they are pushing all sliders to max just to show off the engine. Make no mistake, this is an ad for the engine. An ad that is part marketing part threat because once people get a taste of photorealistic visuals, why would they ever play anything less? Like you said, Ratchet is arguably the best looking game on consoles right now and its tough to go back to it. Epic wants every game to use this so they can get 5% of revenue from every game released. Even the big ones like Rockstar, Ubisoft and COD that rely on their own engines. I think getting this in the hands of gamers is very shrewd because now all of a sudden, devs will have to explain to gamers why their game doesnt look as good as the Matrix.
But there are many many settings you can turn down to get more out of the game. try turning down the traffic density and pedestrians to 50%. you dont need 50,000 cars and another 35,000 pedestrians to make a game world feel believable. You can also use software based Lumens which aimed for 1440p 30 fps on the PS5 instead of 1080p 30 fps like this demo. Not every game will be an open world game. There are plenty of linear games out still. Not every game will be set in a bustling city with thousands of reflective surfaces.
Besides, this engine isnt even out yet and A LOT Of this tech is still very new. Insomniac were able to literally double the resolution of their RT reflections from 1080p to 4kcb in a span of six months between shipping Spiderman Miles and Ratchet. thats an insane performance gain through a simple redesign of the way rt rays are calculated. The coalition dev mentioned making a similar optimization to the UE5 engine that gave them a decent performance uplift.
they can also do what Ninja theory is doing with Hellblade 2 and use wider FOVs but with black bars to save on rendering costs. Death stranding looks amazing in its widescreen mode.
If anything console gaming forces devs to think outside the box. And when they exhaust all possibilities, they settle for smart downgrades. I never thought we would see anything like RDR2 run on the PS4 at 1080p, but they made smart choices and offered what constituted as a mix of medium and low PC settings, and the game still looked incredible. Here everything is maxed out already.
Shmunter
Member
One thing to consider is that assets may be streamed in and out countless times during a session. Simple example is spinning on the spot, or re-use of assets in a level.
Size of a game vs data streaming requirement cannot be reasonably related like a sequential movie..
Fredrik
Member
Isn’t the idea with UE5 that having all that density isn’t as demanding because of the clever way they remove the things you can’t or don’t need to see?
Anyhow I don’t like the idea of making an empty Cyberpunk on console type of city, the cars and pedestrians makes the city feel more alive. And I like open world games, my favorite genre, it would be terrible to go back to corridor gaming again. Took me like 2 hours to warm up on Halo Infinite just because the closed up intro section was too long.
MistBreeze
Member
I played it on ps5, yes it has the wow factor in the beginning chase scene but after it goes to overworld it seems less impactful
yes it has some impressive aspects but it looked messy in a way
Full of shimering and artifacts
I prefer a clean presentation over this
for me realastic graphics does not mean better automatically
yes it has some impressive aspects but it looked messy in a way
Full of shimering and artifacts
I prefer a clean presentation over this
for me realastic graphics does not mean better automatically
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
I want an actually working release of CP 2077 first, we can talk about remasters some years down the line lol
Fredrik
Member
Things are so dynamic and randomized that it’s impossible to do a 1:1 comparison, everyone who try will get a different result. Try for yourself instead if you want no bias, free download. I would say that they both stutters the same way and look blurry at high speed and if you smash up cars, they both looks absolutely amazing if you walk, running is okay, and lost frames can happen at any place for whatever reason.
I understand that people want something to discuss but I’d say that you’ll see the biggest difference in your hands… because of the different controllers lol. Epic has essentially killed the console war here. Might’ve started a console vs PC war though…..
Fredrik
Member
There is more info in the developer tweets, same engine version on all platforms they ship on and The Coalition helped out with optimization that dripped out to all platforms. I wonder how the engine works, does it scale automatically and remove what needs to be removed based on what it feels the hardware can manage?
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Shmunter
Member
There very well may be no difference, just the editing seemed bizzarly contradictory to the conversation. I can see why it’s raising eyebrows.
Other than that, I have driven at top speed causing havoc like that a number of times, it’s not difficult to repeat unless I’ve been lucky.
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In the same video, they talk about streaming , in general , also the old demos and the requirements, told by the devs are not that high .. welcome to marketing
Kenpachii
Member
People believed it, they just had no proof that it actually was. Now u have proof it actually runs on said consoles but it runs absolutely terrible to the point again people wonder how feasible these type of visuals are on current gen consoles and what is the first to go out the moment u actually push a game forwards with this tech.
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Off course they did , why would they only optimize for Xbox .. it’s a middleware engine , the more it’s used on all platforms , the better , as that drives this engines technology forward
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not directly for you .
Terrible is a big word, it runs around 30 frames , it’s locked to 24 frames because film directors directed .. it’s also a proof of concept , and maybe even not that optimized . It’s also COVID times .. have you tried working ? Or from home ?
What people should do more is take it how you get it … most look like spoiled little kids .. and dream and imagine what devs can do in the future.
isn’t it very tiring to constantly be negative?
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Riky
$MSFT
You and a bunch of others from the Xbox Defense Force seem to have trouble to cope with whats shown now for all the World to see.
But lets start right from the beginning here:
It would make no sense to assume that Coalition would even have the know how to help out with optimizing PS5 since they´ve never worked on the machine and PS5 uses an total different low level API wich needs different care. Sure they could program a rather good looking game on it if they have to but thinking they have enough insight to help optimize PS5 Code ... like realy diving deep in and find small deficiencies in PS5 API Language Code is mental gymnastic on true olympic Level.
No matter who says something on Twitter - it is a lie! A Lie people felt is neccesarry to tell because the massive implication of the whole thing dawned on them. Namely that even with The Coalitions deep knowledge about Xbox Series Console Intrinsics and the so called pOweR ADvaNtAgE of Series X over PS5 it could not perform better or have better Settings than the latter. Technicaly even being behind even if only by ~1Frame/s.
The whole chatter of Coalition helping with PS5 optimization can therefore be dismissed. It is only there to provide noise to the diskussion and hide the implication i laid out just above. Its a decoy. I will not fall for it. And it does not matter who you quote on twitter here next - the Thing is over.
There was so much Talk and shitting from Xbox People about 9Tflop Console or RDNA 1,5 and missing features like VRS or Mesh Shaders... Where are we NOW? A top of the fucking Line Engine, an all out Next Gen Showcase Demo , with raytracing, virtualized Geometry and very impressive crash physics. And PS5 manages not only to keep up but also even pulling ahead ever so slightly.
You and your Boys from the Xbox Defense Force, you are Clowns. You wear Clown shoes, Clown watches, Clown Gloves and Clown Underwear. You watch Clown Porn and the Cereals you eat at breakfast are - you guessed it - clown shaped. Might even be Clown milk with that but i do not judge...
It is all out Clown Galore.
In the End it brought you nothing, Zero, nada...
wich means
Your hurt, that's ok. Let the hate run through you.
If you want to continue to deny what's being told to you by the very people that make the engine then that's ok, some people still believe the earth is flat despite the overwhelming evidence to the contrary, stupidity will always exist.
Of course your rather sad argument is based around the Coalition doing optimisations specifically for PS5 whilst not understanding they are talking about overall engine platform agnostic optimisations, but when you're in a blind rage and panic it's predictable to make stupid mistakes like that.
Just be happy The Coalition have helped with what you will be eventually be playing and don't worry I'm sure the Green Rats won't hurt you.
Fredrik
Member
Understood but it’s easy to try for ourselves now, free download, don’t rely on reports with possible bias if you don’t need to.
You can repeat a traffic jam but because of how dynamic everything is I don’t see how you can do a 1:1 performance benchmark through this demo. Nothing is static. To benchmark you need to have the same area, same number and type of cars, same camera angle, same number and type of pedestrians, same lighting, etc etc.
Anyhow, NX thought PS5 version needed a frame time patch, DF saw both having frame time issues and thought PS5 had a 1fps advantage in the intro. Different results there. Personally I think they both have serious performance issues and whatever frame time problems there may be mold together into the general stutter for me.
I could absolutely accept this performance for slowpaced games, walking around is an amazing experience, feels like random AI cars could compete with the cars in racing games in details, the damage is even better. Everything has changed. It’s impossible to not feel letdown when you try playing already released games now. But I think Epic should add a 60fps performance option to this demo so we can see how much things needs to be scaled down for faster games.
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Fredrik
Member
It’s great but me and lots of other people thought there were different versions with different levels of optimization. In the past the multiplat engines has had much bigger performance differences, here it’s almost comical when someone try to pinpoint a difference.
It’s not , you have console specific optimizations all the time , but the devs state that the optimizations made by the Coalition went into the other versions as well ..
Its not that weird either as it where threading optimizations, all consoles and PCs have about the same CPU’s . And GPU structures.
And that’s what we are talking about .
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very , very distant from what people was thinnking and screaming about gb/s of streaming ahaahah
people it was clear from the first moment. People have really fallen for sweeney payed pr.
rofif
Can’t Git Gud
sure but when you are transported to a different area entirely then it's not streaming. Then it's IO. That's why there are 100ms spikes on cutscenes
Fredrik
Member
Maybe I’m missinterpreting it but to me that says they have the same version everywhere, and the engine just scales automatically depending on how much power is available on the hardware it’s currently running on.