Actually, I just realized Fighter is pretty dreamy without his helmet.
Not realistic at all. No man in armor is that pretty in real life. And no guy in a helmet has hair that luscious. I'm offended.
Actually, I just realized Fighter is pretty dreamy without his helmet.
I wouldn't mind if he got a Barbarian-type alt skin.
Actually, I just realized Fighter is pretty dreamy without his helmet.
I wouldn't mind if he got a Barbarian-type alt skin.
So, what exactly do you want from Kamitani? You don't want him to censor, correct? So what do you want him to do?
The Amazon looks more interested in the Sorceress, though.Actually, I just realized Fighter is pretty dreamy without his helmet.
The backgrounds and monster designs are gorgeous too. I know you love it.
Well put. I'll add that images like this not only distort the human form to appeal to teenage fantasies, they serve to encourage the exclusionary tendencies of gaming culture. So many people already feel like they don't belong in the gaming world if they're not a straight male aged 12-30. Designs like this - and the designs of many other characters in many other games - perpetuate that. This is just one small example of a very big problem.
Answer my question of "why vilify giving men sexy female designs when you could complain about the lack of FEMALE pandering with attractive male characters".I apologize that I don't have time to address every post in this thread, but I'll try to answer this. I think it's important for Kamitani and any other artists who draw similarly juvenile characters to consider the effect of their designs on men, on women, and on gaming culture as a whole. If even one woman feels ostracized or uncomfortable because of art like this - and, judging by the e-mails and messages I've gotten in the past day, quite a few women do feel that way - it's worth talking and thinking about.
I don't want him to censor himself. I want him to ask himself why he's drawing men and women with ridiculous proportions that seem designed to appeal to teenage boys, and I want him to think about how that can be harmful. That's the point of criticism: to get people thinking, and talking, and learning.
Like I've been saying all along, Dragon's Crown is hardly the only offender, and it's certainly not the most blatant example of sexist content in games. But it is one example, and for various reasons, it's the one we're discussing. Hopefully good things can come out of this.
Or in the dwarf or Elf. Sorceress is looking in a different direction also.The Amazon looks more interested in the Sorceress, though.
otpThe Amazon looks more interested in the Sorceress, though.
I will admit it.
I think the male art style is almost as bad as Grappler Baki's art style.
And that isn't even the worst.
The fighter is the Wizard on steroids, in plate armor.
If even one woman feels ostracized or uncomfortable because of art like this - and, judging by the e-mails and messages I've gotten in the past day, quite a few women do feel that way - it's worth talking and thinking about.
I don't want him to censor himself. I want him to ask himself why he's drawing men and women with ridiculous proportions that seem designed to appeal to teenage boys, and I want him to think about how that can be harmful. That's the point of criticism: to get people thinking, and talking, and learning.
Both are pretty good artists.Man, you did not just compare Kamitani to Baki. I will fight you!
Fine, play something different?
This is such a good link. I was reading it yesterday and musing on how much went over my head.I think you'll find all the answers to your question right here
http://art-eater.com/2013/03/from-m...ragons-crown-trailer-is-full-of-epic-homages/
Opinions. I can't bring myself to read the speech bubbles but the art is wacky and fun.Baki is disgusting!
If a game advocated genocide you would actually have an objective reason to criticize it (genocide is objectively harmful irl)."If you don't like X, don't play the game" is by far the lamest counter-argument when someone levels criticism at a game. You could use the same counter argument for people complaining about games glorifying genocide. I'm in no way comparing this game to games about genocide. I just want to illustrate how worthless of a counter-argument "if you don't like it, don't play it" is. Either actually address the criticism someone is making of a game, or ignore it. "Don't play it then" is complete bullshit.
Having a negative critic of one aspect in a game isn't a condemnation of the game as a whole. I didn't like how the covenant system worked in Dark Souls, and complained about it. It was still one of the best games I've played. I complained because I thought the game would be better if they changed how the system worked. Am I not supposed to play the game at all because I didn't like one thing? Fucking ridiculous.
I apologize that I don't have time to address every post in this thread, but I'll try to answer this. I think it's important for Kamitani and any other artists who draw similarly juvenile characters to consider the effect of their designs on men, on women, and on gaming culture as a whole. If even one woman feels ostracized or uncomfortable because of art like this - and, judging by the e-mails and messages I've gotten in the past day, quite a few women do feel that way - it's worth talking and thinking about.
I don't want him to censor himself. I want him to ask himself why he's drawing men and women with ridiculous proportions that seem designed to appeal to teenage boys, and I want him to think about how that can be harmful. That's the point of criticism: to get people thinking, and talking, and learning.
Like I've been saying all along, Dragon's Crown is hardly the only offender, and it's certainly not the most blatant example of sexist content in games. But it is one example, and for various reasons, it's the one we're discussing. Hopefully good things can come out of this.
That must be why the Fighter has his arms crossed with a bitter look on his face. He spent 3 hours grooming his hair this morning before the quest, and the ladies aren't even paying attention to him.Or in the dwarf or Elf. Sorceress is looking in a different direction also.
I felt the same way. I am so artistically uncultured.This is such a good link. I was reading it yesterday and musing on how much went over my head.
I apologize that I don't have time to address every post in this thread, but I'll try to answer this. I think it's important for Kamitani and any other artists who draw similarly juvenile characters to consider the effect of their designs on men, on women, and on gaming culture as a whole. If even one woman feels ostracized or uncomfortable because of art like this - and, judging by the e-mails and messages I've gotten in the past day, quite a few women do feel that way - it's worth talking and thinking about.
I don't want him to censor himself. I want him to ask himself why he's drawing men and women with ridiculous proportions that seem designed to appeal to teenage boys, and I want him to think about how that can be harmful. That's the point of criticism: to get people thinking, and talking, and learning.
Like I've been saying all along, Dragon's Crown is hardly the only offender, and it's certainly not the most blatant example of sexist content in games. But it is one example, and for various reasons, it's the one we're discussing. Hopefully good things can come out of this.
Most adults would think anime hyper-fetishization is childish and silly. There's a reason why it's mostly nerds who like this stuff.c'mon, sexy = juvenile? that is why i disagree with your views on this.
and it's obvious he's drawing sexy characters to appeal to people who like sexy characters. all his art has always created sexy character of some kind and not all of them have ridiculous proportions. i'm sure you've seen plenty of his works in his other games. all his games have been based in various folklore and myths so it's also purely fantastical in nature which is reflected in his character designs. if he were to make a game based in a much more realistic setting then maybe i would agree that going overboard might look ridiculous but characters like the Sorceress looks fine in Dragon's Crown.
it would be nice if you listed these other games you feel have character designs that offend you. you mention that they exist but don't bother listing a single one.
Looks pretty even to me.
Sorceress is hot, male counterpart has the pretty boy Sephiroth, bishi look.
Fighter has full armor archer is fully clothed with a average body. Both Dwarf and Amazon are muscular as fuck.
Opinions. I can't bring myself to read the speech bubbles but the art is wacky and fun.
This is such a good link. I was reading it yesterday and musing on how much went over my head.
Most adults would think anime hyper-fetishization is childish and silly. There's a reason why it's mostly nerds who like this stuff.
But then, the same applies to the type of over-the-top, cartoonish action portrayed in many games. If you're gonna complain about childish fantasies, then you'd have to go against a LOT of stuff.
Like i've said before, just throw the word Sorceress into google and watch what images pop up for it. Kamitani's in particular seems to be heavily inspired by Frazetta, and the link that I provided in my previous post gives you some examples of how he designed them.
It's also worth noting that only the later series adopted that style and the first Baki series had pretty normal anatomy.Yeah, it's bizarre, and odd. I remember desperately searching across the net for Son of Ogre scans way back when.
the ending was lulz worthy.
He's already experienced the real life equivalent of what he's drawing, so all that's left is to make it completely insane and hyper-stylized.Prior to becoming a manga artist, he served 5 years in the 1st Airborne Brigade of the Japan Ground Self-Defense Force. During his service he practiced amateur boxing, and has competed in the National Sports Festival. He also holds a degree in Shorinji Kempo, which he has practiced since he was a teenager.
I apologize that I don't have time to address every post in this thread, but I'll try to answer this. I think it's important for Kamitani and any other artists who draw similarly juvenile characters to consider the effect of their designs on men, on women, and on gaming culture as a whole. If even one woman feels ostracized or uncomfortable because of art like this - and, judging by the e-mails and messages I've gotten in the past day, quite a few women do feel that way - it's worth talking and thinking about.
I don't want him to censor himself. I want him to ask himself why he's drawing men and women with ridiculous proportions that seem designed to appeal to teenage boys, and I want him to think about how that can be harmful. That's the point of criticism: to get people thinking, and talking, and learning.
Like I've been saying all along, Dragon's Crown is hardly the only offender, and it's certainly not the most blatant example of sexist content in games. But it is one example, and for various reasons, it's the one we're discussing. Hopefully good things can come out of this.
Why gay men instead of women?I think the more apt comparison would be if male characters were eroticised to appeal to gay men by default, rather than appealing to general male power fantasies by default as they are now.
I apologize that I don't have time to address every post in this thread, but I'll try to answer this. I think it's important for Kamitani and any other artists who draw similarly juvenile characters to consider the effect of their designs on men, on women, and on gaming culture as a whole. If even one woman feels ostracized or uncomfortable because of art like this - and, judging by the e-mails and messages I've gotten in the past day, quite a few women do feel that way - it's worth talking and thinking about.
Dat Legendary Amazon MilkThe Amazon looks more interested in the Sorceress, though.
I apologize that I don't have time to address every post in this thread, but I'll try to answer this. I think it's important for Kamitani and any other artists who draw similarly juvenile characters to consider the effect of their designs on men, on women, and on gaming culture as a whole. If even one woman feels ostracized or uncomfortable because of art like this - and, judging by the e-mails and messages I've gotten in the past day, quite a few women do feel that way - it's worth talking and thinking about.
I don't want him to censor himself. I want him to ask himself why he's drawing men and women with ridiculous proportions that seem designed to appeal to teenage boys, and I want him to think about how that can be harmful. That's the point of criticism: to get people thinking, and talking, and learning.
Like I've been saying all along, Dragon's Crown is hardly the only offender, and it's certainly not the most blatant example of sexist content in games. But it is one example, and for various reasons, it's the one we're discussing. Hopefully good things can come out of this.
Yeah and there are women who like this stuff too. But they're an even smaller minority.I don't know about the bolded...I'd bet there are lots of blokes out there that would like the looks of that.
Ya blew itIf even one woman feels ostracized or uncomfortable because of art like this
Don't bother arguing with Jason about it. In the Games Journalism! thread he said other people were putting words in his mouth when all they did was quote his articles. He clearly has his misguided agenda which no one can convince him otherwise despite testimony from people who are either female gamers themselves. It's pretty hilarious that out of all the games that have come out in even just recent years this is the game where he decides to stand up and become the voice of the gaming community to better the industry for women because he represents those who don't have a voice.
I apologize that I don't have time to address every post in this thread, but I'll try to answer this. I think it's important for Kamitani and any other artists who draw similarly juvenile characters to consider the effect of their designs on men, on women, and on gaming culture as a whole. If even one woman feels ostracized or uncomfortable because of art like this - and, judging by the e-mails and messages I've gotten in the past day, quite a few women do feel that way - it's worth talking and thinking about.
I don't want him to censor himself. I want him to ask himself why he's drawing men and women with ridiculous proportions that seem designed to appeal to teenage boys, and I want him to think about how that can be harmful. That's the point of criticism: to get people thinking, and talking, and learning.
Like I've been saying all along, Dragon's Crown is hardly the only offender, and it's certainly not the most blatant example of sexist content in games. But it is one example, and for various reasons, it's the one we're discussing. Hopefully good things can come out of this.
If even one woman feels ostracized or uncomfortable because of art like this - and, judging by the e-mails and messages I've gotten in the past day, quite a few women do feel that way - it's worth talking and thinking about.
Isn't that an unbelievably slippery slope? You're going to find someone that's offended about something in almost anything that you do. Especially when you're dealing with designs that resemble humans.
That's well beyond the slippery slope. It's completely, unambiguously ridiculous in every possible context. There's no way to parody that. None.
That's well beyond the slippery slope. It's completely, unambiguously ridiculous in every possible context. There's no way to parody that. None.
This thread... it's giving me a head ache with circles we're talking ourselves into. Can we even consider DC as being a "niche" game with attention it's drawn?
Someone, be they man, woman, or child, will always find something to be offended by. That's the way of world. But lately, in gaming, we've entered into this strange realm of thought wherein all games have to be as inoffensive as possible to all people. Why?! I find this train of thought incredibly frustrating as I see it as a form of creative censorship. If anything, this leads credence to that concept of video games being art just as films, books, and music are already considered to be.
If an individual is offended by a piece of art, that's okay. I'm not going to criticize them for their feelings and neither should anyone else. I will respect their opinion and choice to disagree with the subject matter just as that individual should respect my opinion and choice to both enjoy and support that same subject matter.
What I'm trying to say is that is okay to like or dislike an art form, in this case it's Katamani's character artwork within Dragon's Crown. But I do not think that it is acceptable at all to suggest that Katamani, as an artist, should rethink the way he chooses to express his creativity in order to be as inoffensive as possible. And these Kotaku articles are doing just that, not cool at all.
Schrier, I'm sorry your offended and I respect your opinion. But get off your soap box. Your suggested censorship is not appreciated.
Why gay men instead of women?
He's just saying it deserves discussion if one person feels that way. Not that they should lock the fucking game up and kill the designer. Read the whole quote.
It would be well within someone's rights to create a "Birth of a Nation"-esque film today, but I don't think it would be widely accepted because our society has changed what it considers acceptable. He's not saying this game shouldn't be made, but let's discuss what motivated its creation and why people want it. Maybe that leads to a world with less tolerance for this type of art, maybe not.