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[jakinov]

They've made more good/great Star Wars games than bad. But they have released them at a glacial pace almost. Battlefront 2 is fucking awesome. It's got a ton of modes to play, Ewok Hunt especially is really tense and fun. Jedi Outcast is fantastic and by all accounts Squadrons is a stellar experience too.

They just don't release enough games. I want new games in multiple genres like Republic Commando, The Old Republic, Dark Forces, Jedi Knight, Power Battles, Demolition, Teras Kasi. So many different games.

During the PS1/PS2/Xbox era it felt like we were getting a new Star Wars game every 8 mos. or so. I hope when Disney's deal with them is up, they just individually let other studios license Star Wars, I'd love to see a Star Wars Tactics like X-Com 2, or a new Jedi fps from Arkane. So many possibilities.


No kidding. It's such a perfect match and one that's already been a proven success.

Everyone is releasing games slower nowadays. Games are more complex, they take longer to make and there's a lot more multiplayer time sinks.


KOTOR isn't a proven success. It was mildly successful at the time and has a vocal cult following. EA has cancelled franchises (that they own and don't have to pay royalties or take into account licensing costs) that have sold multiple times more than that franchise has sold.

 

[Krappadizzle]

Everyone is releasing games slower nowadays. Games are more complex, they take longer to make and there's a lot more multiplayer time sinks.


KOTOR isn't a proven success. It was mildly successful at the time and has a vocal cult following. EA has cancelled franchises (that they own and don't have to pay royalties or take into account licensing costs) that have sold multiple times more than that franchise has sold.

I mean...It was one of the most successful selling games on the Xbox.

And you are right, games are taking longer to make, but we also have more development studios than EVER before. It not like E.A. couldn't dictate production of 3 or 4 Star Wars games to one of their 20+ studios. They wouldn't have spent so much money on the license to make only 5 games over the span of the deal. Makes no sense. They've mismanaged the shit out of the license and brand.

 

[Jaxcellent]

Guys, this evening I gave this subject some thought and although I love riding the EA is a evil shit company bandwagon I believe this company still can do amazing things, lets be honest here, love it or hate it, the Squadrons game is pretty amazing, its a love letter to the fans. The fallen order, great game, great gameplay, no MTX, its great. Titanfall 2 is amazing, it's a great experience, online and offline and I can't wait for the next installment.

Who would have thought Respawn could have such a great effect on the company, I believe they made some pretty stupid mistakes in the past but I do see some light at the end of this pitch dark tunnel. They are recovering from bad business decisions and I think at the moment they are doing the right things.

Please note, I'm not talking about their sports division, those guys should be ashamed of themselves and are a disgrace to themselves and to gaming.

 

[mikefrails]

When was the last good Star Wars game? I don’t think Disney’s the problem.

 

[jakinov]

I mean...It was one of the most successful selling games on the Xbox.

And you are right, games are taking longer to make, but we also have more development studios than EVER before. It not like E.A. couldn't dictate production of 3 or 4 Star Wars games to one of their 20+ studios. They wouldn't have spent so much money on the license to make only 5 games over the span of the deal. Makes no sense. They've mismanaged the shit out of the license and brand.

Which is arguably broadly speaking just a mild success. Being one of the best selling games on a console not a whole lot of people had isn't that great. It's like being the fastest sprinter in your country but you did shit at the olympics when the rest of the world is involved. Great that you did well for your country and great that you even made it to the olympics but you aren't all that special.

EA has 20 or whatever studios (I didn't' count). But they are busy doing other things too. They aren't going to dump safe, growing projects over new riskier projects just because they can slap on the Star Wars name. I don't think any other publisher would do the same unless they had nothing else going on. Like how Sony Pictures is milking Spider-man because they got no other big franchises to ride on anymore. Some of these studios are also smaller studios and they will work on Star Wars game that you likely weren't counting (i.e. mobile and VR games). Some of these studios aren't fully equipped ore experienced to tackle a AAA project on their own either and so they do work on a Star Wars game but a smaller part of a larger game. You also have to remember that EA shut down some projects as well which is normal in the video game industry. Their original goal was to release a star wars game every year. They didn't quite do that but EA isn't the only company that doesn't reach their targeted deadlines for game releases. Sony, Microsoft, Ubisoft, or whatever all delay games or cancel them too.

Could they have release more games? Sure. Would the company have actually been more successful? We'd need a crystal ball to know for sure. More isn't necessarily always better. There's only so much people are going to spend a year on video games, people can get sick of a new star wars games every 8 months and it could be loss of potential money on EA in general tying up their resources on new riskier star wars projects.

Also, I don't think the raw numbers of games matter as much as the revenue, I don't think the deal they made with Disney was a lump sum deal. It was likely a revenue/profit sharing deal.

With that in mind, you also have to consider resources/money are tied up on on the GaaS aspect of some of their games as well which is additional revenue for EA/Disney without having to build brand new games from scratch.

Even the people making the movies are slowing down because it's hard to effectively milk the franchise in a short period of time. It's not just about how many products you can output, it's about not watering down the brand, and maximizing your actual returns in the short and long term.

 

[sol_bad]

Does that take into account the cost of inflation? Ticket prices were much more cheaper back when the original trilogy and prequel trilogy came out

With inflation.

A New Hope - $2,157,473,159
Empire Strikes Back - $1,262,000,491
Return of the Jedi - $977,545,006
The Phantom Menace - $1,442,037,988
Attack of the Clones - $932,261,069
Revenge of the Sith - $1,155,660,281
The Force Awakens - $2,268,059,033
The Last Jedi - $1,412,985,896
Rise of Skywalker - $1,074,144,248
Rogue One - $1,143,667,869
Solo - $406,711,999

The money the films make is pretty consistent throughout time.
Return of the Jedi and Attack of the Clones are the worst performing in in the Skywalker Saga.
In the 70's/80's people were like, "Fuck this Star Wars shit". Each movie made less and less, just like the Disney trilogy.

 

[Krappadizzle]

Which is arguably broadly speaking just a mild success. Being one of the best selling games on a console not a whole lot of people had isn't that great. It's like being the fastest sprinter in your country but you did shit at the olympics when the rest of the world is involved. Great that you did well for your country and great that you even made it to the olympics but you aren't all that special.

EA has 20 or whatever studios (I didn't' count). But they are busy doing other things too. They aren't going to dump safe, growing projects over new riskier projects just because they can slap on the Star Wars name. I don't think any other publisher would do the same unless they had nothing else going on. Like how Sony Pictures is milking Spider-man because they got no other big franchises to ride on anymore. Some of these studios are also smaller studios and they will work on Star Wars game that you likely weren't counting (i.e. mobile and VR games). Some of these studios aren't fully equipped ore experienced to tackle a AAA project on their own either and so they do work on a Star Wars game but a smaller part of a larger game. You also have to remember that EA shut down some projects as well which is normal in the video game industry. Their original goal was to release a star wars game every year. They didn't quite do that but EA isn't the only company that doesn't reach their targeted deadlines for game releases. Sony, Microsoft, Ubisoft, or whatever all delay games or cancel them too.

Could they have release more games? Sure. Would the company have actually been more successful? We'd need a crystal ball to know for sure. More isn't necessarily always better. There's only so much people are going to spend a year on video games, people can get sick of a new star wars games every 8 months and it could be loss of potential money on EA in general tying up their resources on new riskier star wars projects.

Also, I don't think the raw numbers of games matter as much as the revenue, I don't think the deal they made with Disney was a lump sum deal. It was likely a revenue/profit sharing deal.

With that in mind, you also have to consider resources/money are tied up on on the GaaS aspect of some of their games as well which is additional revenue for EA/Disney without having to build brand new games from scratch.

Even the people making the movies are slowing down because it's hard to effectively milk the franchise in a short period of time. It's not just about how many products you can output, it's about not watering down the brand, and maximizing your actual returns in the short and long term.

Hey fair enough. I just don't think it all boils down to production taking a longer time. Some of the best rated games of this generation had studios that have put out multiple games. Look at Arkane, they've put out 3 excellent games in what, 4 or 5 years? Insomniac too has released at least 5 PC/Xbx/PS4 games this generation alone not even counting all their VR and mobile stuff. I think it boils down to E.A. being TOO big and not being able to effectively manage their production studios without having to have 70 gajillion hands in the pot.

I don't quite buy the GaaS idea either as those are established franchises that make the most minuscule changes year after year and over fluff with card packs/my team/bullshit. The overhead on production of the last 3 madden/fifa/sports games must have been incredibly small considering they have such well established formulas and technologies in place already. It's why they are constantly criticized for never evolving.

I'd even say the argument with the movies as a whole slowing down production is due to mismanagement of the Star Wars franchise by Kathleen Kennedy and the going of super "woke" sjw shit that infested the last 3 movies and promoting of agendas in franchises that don't need or shouldn't have them being issues in. I and many people have no issues with "milking" a franchise as long as the milk is good. We're being served sour milk and told that if we don't like it, it's because we are sexist/racists/whateverist. On top of all that you have Coronavirus slowing down production of everything film related. But you make some fair points which I can't dismiss.

All I'm saying is. I want more Star Wars games. I think exclusively licensing to E.A. has not given me very many games. I say stop the exclusivity shit and let the brand be taken up by the many many many talented studios that are floating out there.

 

[jakinov]

Hey fair enough. I just don't think it all boils down to production taking a longer time. Some of the best rated games of this generation had studios that have put out multiple games. Look at Arkane, they've put out 3 excellent games in what, 4 or 5 years? Insomniac too has released at least 5 PC/Xbx/PS4 games this generation alone not even counting all their VR and mobile stuff. I think it boils down to E.A. being TOO big and not being able to effectively manage their production studios without having to have 70 gajillion hands in the pot.

I don't quite buy the GaaS idea either as those are established franchises that make the most minuscule changes year after year and over fluff with card packs/my team/bullshit. The overhead on production of the last 3 madden/fifa/sports games must have been incredibly small considering they have such well established formulas and technologies in place already. It's why they are constantly criticized for never evolving.

I'd even say the argument with the movies as a whole slowing down production is due to mismanagement of the Star Wars franchise by Kathleen Kennedy and the going of super "woke" sjw shit that infested the last 3 movies and promoting of agendas in franchises that don't need or shouldn't have them being issues in. I and many people have no issues with "milking" a franchise as long as the milk is good. We're being served sour milk and told that if we don't like it, it's because we are sexist/racists/whateverist. On top of all that you have Coronavirus slowing down production of everything film related. But you make some fair points which I can't dismiss.

All I'm saying is. I want more Star Wars games. I think exclusively licensing to E.A. has not given me very many games. I say stop the exclusivity shit and let the brand be taken up by the many many many talented studios that are floating out there.

Arkane worked on a lot of sequels of games from last generation. There's a lot less trial and error (i.e. time wasted) in developing a sequel and more opportunities to reuse existing technology (time saved). You also have to look at it from the studio perspective as well on EA side. DICE also put out a bunch of games in the last 5 years. Insomniac like DICE has many teams (I believe 3, at least 2,) which allows them to release so many games. Resapwn was also able to push out a lot of sequels and games as well. If EA wanted to push out more Star Wars games they'd have to be a new sub-franchise, they'd have to form new studio (which is risky to do) or they'd have to make another studio busy working on their main franchises to work on more.


GaaS it depends on the game. Some games add brand new modes, and improvements. The studios making the games with actually full releases are still working that year with whatever improvements. Even if you don't see it as major changes, it doesn't mean that money/resources aren't consistently spent to achieve that frequent release cadence. In software development, there's different phases and if you are releasing every year you may spent a lot more time in development phases where you aren't actually adding new things but are either planning/preparing the design of the product or preparing for the release (performance, bug fixes, polish, and no features).

In regards to Star Wars movies. There is a vocal fanbase who didn't like the SJW approach to the one movie. However, I don't think the slow down happened because that's a general Hollywood trend that everyone is going for and the movie still did extremely well, critics liked it and I don't think there was strong evidence that the general masses had the same kinds of criticism the vocal Internet communities did. The slow down happened after Solo performed very poorly and experienced a lot of production problems. They had a plan to do a Star Wars movie every year and I believe multiple trilogies (main one and GoT showrunner one) and spin-off movies (like Obi Wan) somewhat planned. They were going very hard and very fast. I don't think there's was a lot of evidence that Solo failed because people were salty over The Last Jedi. I think that they ran, they fell and realized well maybe they were running too fast and simply having the Star Wars brand didn't really help. Sometimes you need time to make the better milk, something you can't just throw money at and expect to be good. Sometimes it's good to spend time throwing ideas at the wall and shop around with different visionaries. With the approach of, we need to get out a Star Wars movie as fast as possible, you might take a good general idea and and pick the wrong people because you want it done to meet some early arbitrary deadline. Maybe the director/writers with better ideas were busy at the time, or you didn't know about them yet or maybe as the executive level, you needed to let the ideas on what you wanted to marinate more. Marvel for example spent a lot of time with Captain Marvel before they actually started filming and released it.

I don't think Disney will give up the partnership with EA. They have said they are happy with it and they said that they suck with games in the past. For them to work with a bunch of publishers or smaller studios directly would mean a lot of work for them in picking the right studios, picking the right ideas and making sure the brand doesn't get hurt. Whereas with EA, I assume that EA handles everything and Lucas Film's division creative side consults on lore/design aspects whenever. But EA is probably deciding what studios and game concepts get green lit. And love them or hate them, EA is a successful company and been fairly successful with what games they did release. If Disney doesn't want to shop around project by project, I don't think there's any other big publishers that would result in more games. for you or better prospects for Disney

 

[phil_t98]

personally I thought both Battlefronts were great, 2 started out a bit Meh but got really good towards its end of life. I thought Jedi fallen order was amazing and happy to see a lot more of that, not played squadrons yet but will play it on VR at some point today.

I dont think the games have been to bad at all tbh

 

[Gamezone]

personally I thought both Battlefronts were great, 2 started out a bit Meh but got really good towards its end of life. I thought Jedi fallen order was amazing and happy to see a lot more of that, not played squadrons yet but will play it on VR at some point today.

I dont think the games have been to bad at all tbh

Battlefront 2 is great, but the launch was ruined, and the hype is gone.

 

[phil_t98]

Battlefront 2 is great, but the launch was ruined, and the hype is gone.

yeah but it is a 2 or 3 year old game now

 

[EDMIX]

Battlefront 1 sold over 20mil copies, and Battlefront 2 was at 13mil a while ago. Jedi Fallen Order has been huge.
I think it was just time constraints, not money constraints. The first Battlefront was made in 1 year, the 2nd game 2 years later, with a Battlefield in between.

Agreed 100%. When you actually look at what DICE was handed, they did the best they could do under the circumstances and released the best selling Star Wars game in history. I can't wait to see what they do with Battlefront 3 as they have a megaton waiting for 2022.