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EGM/1UP steals the blood and sweat of hardcore gamers?

sprsk

force push the doodoo rock
if doa fans exert blood and sweat playing, then they must all be really fat women with glandular problems.
 

chespace

It's not actually trolling if you don't admit it
Okay, well.

I'm not exactly sure what our strategy guide writer Richard Li's methodology was when he wrote the DOA4 feature but I know for a fact that it wasn't straight "plagarism." Maybe his research started at the fansite level (where he might have found a list of moves folks were discussing a lot), but I sat with him for a week and a half while he went through every character and tried to discover move properties and effectiveness in actual matches. And he took a ton of notes. And he also got pretty good at the game as a result.

Did he look at DOA Central? Probably. Did he straight lift VirtuaPai's strat? Fuck no.

As for the forumites on DOAC... their reaction to my DOA4 score is totally expected... isn't it? :)
 

sprsk

force push the doodoo rock
chespace said:
Okay, well.

I'm not exactly sure what our strategy guide writer Richard Li's methodology was when he wrote the DOA4 feature but I know for a fact that it wasn't straight "plagarism." Maybe his research started at the fansite level (where he might have found a list of moves folks were discussing a lot), but I sat with him for a week and a half while he went through every character and tried to discover move properties and effectiveness in actual matches. And he took a ton of notes. And he also got pretty good at the game as a result.

Did he look at DOA Central? Probably. Did he straight lift VirtuaPai's strat? Fuck no.

As for the forumites on DOAC... their reaction to my DOA4 score is totally expected... isn't it? :)


I WILL PUT A THOUSAND TIGERS AROUND YOUR HEAD
 

jooey

The Motorcycle That Wouldn't Slow Down
one of my screenshots is in the latest OPM too!!

but that's not editorial, and I don't care anyway, so
 

White Man

Member
sp0rsk said:
I WILL PUT A THOUSAND TIGERS AROUND YOUR HEAD

YOU HAVE MY AXE.

And omg, I just went up to 1up.com and guess what I saw? A fullpage ad for SONY! Guess we know who's signing your checks.
 
chespace said:
Okay, well.

I'm not exactly sure what our strategy guide writer Richard Li's methodology was when he wrote the DOA4 feature but I know for a fact that it wasn't straight "plagarism." Maybe his research started at the fansite level (where he might have found a list of moves folks were discussing a lot), but I sat with him for a week and a half while he went through every character and tried to discover move properties and effectiveness in actual matches. And he took a ton of notes. And he also got pretty good at the game as a result.

Did he look at DOA Central? Probably. Did he straight lift VirtuaPai's strat? Fuck no.

As for the forumites on DOAC... their reaction to my DOA4 score is totally expected... isn't it? :)
the quotes in the thread pretty much show that his week and a half of research and notes looks just like VirtuaPai's sentences reworded... i mean, when you look at how the sentences, while reworded, are in the exact same order...

not only that, he managed to fuck up the meaning of some of the stuff thru rewording, making them incorrect...

and i'd expect lots of fans of *any* game to not like a 6.5 score of "their" game and vocalize it on their fan forum... any game...
 

Mr Jared

Member
"Hardcore DOA" players are just the people who couldn't cut it in fighting games worth taking seriously. It's like not being able to compete at olympic level, so you decide to go for the Special Olympics instead.
 

sprsk

force push the doodoo rock
Sl1p said:
"Hardcore DOA" players are just the people who couldn't cut it in fighting games worth taking seriously. It's like not being able to compete at olympic level, so you decide to go for the Special Olympics instead.


mmmyes
 

White Man

Member
Wait, here are multiple DOA4 startegy guides? Do they cover varying your masturbation techniques so you don't get too used to one sort of friction?
 

Belfast

Member
sp0rsk said:
if doa fans exert blood and sweat playing, then they must all be really fat women with glandular problems.

Its just all that furious manipulation of the joystick they're prone to!
 
chespace said:
Did he look at DOA Central? Probably. Did he straight lift VirtuaPai's strat? Fuck no.
I think the examples they provided are convincing...it's not straight lifting, but it's pretty damn close...though, it's just posts on a forum...how uncommon could this be?

Sl1p said:
"Hardcore DOA" players are just the people who couldn't cut it in fighting games worth taking seriously. It's like not being able to compete at olympic level, so you decide to go for the Special Olympics instead.
That was totally hilarious and unexpected!!!....

MomoPufflet said:
Hey guys lets turn this into a DOA bashing thread. Then we will be cool and original.
...oh wait, maybe not.
 
Matlock said:
I can't wait until FortNinety weighs in with his criticism.
I'm picking up the red hotline phone that goes directly to Kyle Orland.

the hardcore thread said:
When People Go to 1Up.com, They are not going to see that The players from doacentral, who worked hard to get that info up, as the ones who contributed to the community, They are going to see some talentless Writer Named Richard Li(who the fawk is that), and give propes to him and his 1up crew.

che, I'm taking back every prope I ever gave to you and your crew :(
 

jenov4

Member
A little OT, but does anyone remember the time when EGM (Or was it Gamefan?) totally ripped off one of the Mortal Kombat moveslist / fatalities faqs from that game faqs ftp back before gamefaqs existed? That was quite pathetic.
 

Matlock

Banned
Kobun Heat said:
I'm picking up the red hotline phone that goes directly to Kyle Orland.

Orland has nothing on fortninety. I saved this post as a .txt as I don't remember which LiveJournal it came from (when reading between the lines, he's really saying that 1up is gamefaqs with a frontend, and rotten as such...which he also said explicitly in a chat a while back)...

random ljer said:
Okay, I'll play devil's advocate: why do you think everyone hates 1UP so? -- [info]fortninety

I was going to make this a whole convulted entry of its own, but I decided that I could sum it up really quickly.

People love and hate 1UP because it encompasses all of the potential and the inanities of the internet all at once. To many, it's like 1UP.com was the beginning and the end of every word that people stick an "e-" in front of to come off as witty, and therefore it's a perfect scapegoat for those that detest those very things.

1UP doesn't bother me. People get all huffy because of the porn and its ilk, but really. It was always there. A lot of the things that seem to grate on one's nerves -- the attention whores that just want the page hits, the contests, etcetera -- that all can be avoided by never setting your cursor on the home page. I'm telling you, I look at my blog, its comments, and every now and then, someone else's blog and comments. That's it.

I'm just saying that it's cool to hate on 1UP because, over the past few months, all I've heard is either people going "OMG 1UP INVENTED THAR INTARNETS" or "OMG 1UP IS DESTROYING THAR INTARNETS", and the latter has been getting a lot more attention than the former. I do believe that, for most, it's really more of a bruised ego, and I'm (wo)man enough to admit that I kinda miss being the Umilicious of 1UP. At the same time, though, I'm not so dependent on my digital popularity that I'm willing to sink to the breast-flashing, drama-stirring, and incessant posting that many others will. (That's reserved for the LiveJournal! :0 ) I'll write there when the ideas come. No sooner.

... but yeah. I don't think there's a strong reasoning behind the hatred of 1UP, and I wrote a hell of a lot more than I intended. Damn you, 1UP internet.

fortninety said:
Alright... valid points. But here's why I have a problem with 1UP.

First off, let me state that I have no problems with the actual news or editorial content that's generally found at UP. There's some fine writers there, and even some awesome developers. Course I never read any of it, simply because the entire site is a technical mess (and everyone knows this, but the assurances that its getting fixed seems to lessen as times goes on, but that's another issue). My problem with 1UP is the whole blogging thing and how they are "used". And I guess it ultimately relates to my issues with gaming blogs in general...

Like many folks, I too have a gaming blog. Its for personal reasons, primarily for my friends, many of whom have pursuits elsewhere (mostly in the field of comics) and since I'm always looking for interesting and weird tid-bits relating to the world of video games for my friends, have a journal site is a effective means to pass the news along in a timely and low-hassle manner. But I also have one for professional reasons: I'm a professional "game journalist" (yes... dirty word, I know) and having a blog allows me to be visible and active, and via my own platform. I believe it showcases my skills when it comes to digging aforementioned news and info, as well as the commentary I occasional provide. Plus I pimp my whole "New York" angle as much as possible.

Do I take blogging seriously? .... Eh, not really, cuz its all goofy fun in the end, at least for me. Perhaps I should since I do reap immediate benefits, but I just find bloggers in general, at least the ones who take it, and therefore themselves, too seriously humorous at best, and annoying at worst. Yes, its officially "the next big thing" and as is such the case with all next big things, there's sparks of genius in places, but the landscape is mostly riddled with deafening mediocrity.

But I've noticed that a lot of gamers who blog take what they do VERY seriously. Perhaps too much so. Yet that's okay... whatever floats their boat. Some go way overboard by having three of four blogs simultaneously. That's overkill I think. Granted, I have two blogs, one on my site and a LiveJournal, but the LJ is simply there to pass along notice that I've made an update on my own site, nothing more. But again, having multiple blogs is also fine in itself. Though I think the very act does deserve some analysis.

I went to school for cartooning but shortly after graduating, I pushed it aside to pursue game design. And recently I've decided to make comics once again. This past weekend I went to SPX, a major small press comic books show were folks sell their own comics to like-minded folks. And then it finally dawned on me... the reason why so many folks I know, the gamers, are so frustrated. You see, everyone at the show, the folks who were selling their own books obviously love comic books, enough that at one point, they decided to take a stab at it. And it seems that whenever someone really loves something, that person will try to create something of their own, whether its film, or music, or any other form of art. But its just not as feasible when it comes to video games. Its almost impossible these days to create a game by one's self, and that level of frustration, or something stemming from it, is fairly evident from almost every diehard gamer I encounter. And many, it seems, have decided to use this frustration, this energy, to write about it video games, as a means to be more closer connected to them. Which again, is fine and dandy.

Though it should be pointed out quite a few can become noticeably far too attached with the concepts and ideas regarding gaming, at least their own... yes, the act of video gaming is often a very singular, person experience, but I believe its a tad bit absurd when folks become so accusatorial or defensive in regards to something which they themselves had no creative involvement in, let alone that its just a video game in the end. And I know that statement might be offensive to some, but speaking as someone who's life has been profoundly impacted by video games (I grew up with, they've helped forge many friendships in my life, as well as my career), at least I can still view them as just video games at the end of the day. And if gamers have a problem with that, and perceive my outlook to be condescending, well, that's their problem. Hence why when I encounter fellow game designers or writers who are so bitchy about their professions, I have to roll my eyes... we are living every fifteen-year-old boys wet dreams! But again, that's a whole another debate. My point is that gamers can be a very over-emotional, scatter-brained set, and much of the writing unfortunately reflects this.

.... But regardless of my personal opinion of diehard game bloggers, if it’s what makes them happy, then more power to them. But I seriously object when such personal words and thoughts are being used by a large media conglomerate. Actually its not so much the act in itself, its the lack of proper compensation.

Let me just reiterate that I'm not some whiny game writer who's pissed that its tough to get a paying gig nowadays because so many people are doing the same thing, and for free (since there is that very clear connection between blogging and New Games Journalism), but I do find it very dirty how Ziff Davis is pimping the writings of some 15 year old at zero cost. Its not like he's writing the actual news, but he is the poster child for a major corporation, and that kid is not getting his dues.

1UP pushes the whole community aspect with their point system, but its such a hard sell... like being buddies with editors of the magazines. Hey, while I'm not necessarily friends with any of them, though I will sat that folks I am acquainted with are indeed very warm and personable (well, they were cool bosses, what else can I say?), but putting them on such a pedestal seems a tad bit ridiculous. Yet people seem to be stumbling over-themselves (or at least that's the implied message) to be "buddies" with these folks, who again, are people that write video games.

Speaking of the folks who work for ZD that blog, how much of an open forum is it exactly? I've had discussions a few times about this, and have brought up a possible scenario of someone saying something that might be offensive to the parent company, to the point of censorship taking place. All have said that ZD is very hands-off and that nothing has even come close to resembling such a situation, but the fact that its a very real possibility is bothersome.

But back to the use of bloggers, what's most annoying is their use of their female quotient. In almost every ZD mag you have some girl's smiling face and her going on and on about how cool 1UP is, as is the ability to blog about games and the community that's attached to it. Hey, did this girl get a check? Because if not, that's pretty fucked up. Though if they do, I am willing to change my stance on this, but no one in the multiple times I have brought it up has answered my question. Forgetting all that, if I was female gamer, I'd be a bit annoyed by it all... its just a far nicer, less outwardly offensive variant of the booth babe. It appeals to horny males to join the site, period.

Do I feel that blogging is killing game journalism? Well it is to a certain extent, but those who are doing ZD's dirty work should at least be paid for their efforts. And it isn't so much that people are possibly being taken advantage of that bothers me, just the fact that everyone is so willing to play along; I guess bloggers who have their faces and words featured are happy for the exposure. Maybe some believe that it will propel that to a writing career of some sort, but if ZD is getting the work for free now, why should they bother paying later down the road?

Well, you have it. Not sure if that really answers your question... I'm not saying you should stop doing your 1UP blog, but I think everyone who puts a lot of time and effort into whatever they do should just once in a while stop and think about things. I really do hope you consider some of the points I've brought up in my argument.
 

Jerkface

Banned
Hurrrrrrrrrrrrr its DOA so it doesn't matter!!!!!!!!!!

If this is even partially true its a fucking joke making money off of peoples hard work without credit , no better than eBaumsworld or any other shitty ad-laden sites like that.
 

Andy787

Banned
Sl1p said:
"Hardcore DOA" players are just the people who couldn't cut it in fighting games worth taking seriously. It's like not being able to compete at olympic level, so you decide to go for the Special Olympics instead.
Aren't you a huge fan of DoA, and play it competitively? :p
 

Agent Dormer

Dirty Drinking Smoker
Wow, that seems like a lot of time wasted to write up why you dislike a website, Fort. I think you're taking this whole thing too seriously.
 

Nick

Junior Member
Sl1p said:
"Hardcore DOA" players are just the people who couldn't cut it in fighting games worth taking seriously. It's like not being able to compete at olympic level, so you decide to go for the Special Olympics instead.
This is so very true. People play DOA when they can't cut it in *real* fighting games. I've seen it happen so many times, and I laugh as a result. And I like DOA, too.

I really couldn't give a crap if they lifted information from NASA and stuck it on their website. 1UP is by far the best gaming website on the internet, and they can do whatever the hell they want to make their site that much better. The problem is, DOA never was a good series to begin with. Pretty graphics + fluid animation != Good Game. Good Gameplay = Good Game. DOA can't seem to figure this one out.
 

Mr Jared

Member
Andy787 said:
Aren't you a huge fan of DoA

Yes, very much so. I worship at the temple of Itagaki.

and play it competitively? :p

There was this glimmer of hope that DOA4 could be taken seriously, but after a week of playing it like it was a competitive game that hope was destroyed. DOA is still a joke when it comes to being a serious fighting game.

Doesn't mean I can't love it :D
 

Mrbob

Member
Wow, more DoA bashing at GAF? Shocking! News at 11!

DoA4TW! :D

The game is superior to other 3D fighting games until they go online!

I'm having a blast playing people worldwide. Enjoy the strong competition of beating up JIMBO down the road in VF4 and SC3! But of course all the serious fighting games tailor it so you have an opportunity to play all the best competition worldwide, right?

As for stealing stuff, this seems pretty blatant. Richard Li needs to be more inconspicous when taking things.
 

Monk

Banned
Did the hardcore gamer write a disclaimer that he wanted to be credited when they get "borrowed"? If not, what is the problem? Initially the information was free to use as you wish .
 

Error

Jealous of the Glory that is Johnny Depp
some quoutes from the DOA central forums
Kayin Amoh said:
Through the medium of fist.

Seriously, doesn't look like it. However, it looks like he is trying to get a deeper awareness of the game out there, and I can appreciate that whether the information came from here or not.

Che, on the other hand, preaches ignorance.

Kayin Amoh said:
Try and keep a professional outlook on things. I generally enjoy the site, but they do have their moments of random stupidity. Everyone does. Che especially.

About to watch the new episode of the 1up show now. Opinion on the game seems divided, but the people who like it are obviously 100% correct, and Che is wrong. And that other nameless guy who walks in on him playing it.
:lol :lol
 
The rules of professionality and dignity asks that you give credit where credit is due, even Gamefaqs submittals adhere to this. Paraphrasing is not a workaround for plagiarism. If a school paper can't be written that way why is this acceptable?
 

Jerkface

Banned
Monk said:
Did the hardcore gamer write a disclaimer that he wanted to be credited when they get "borrowed"? If not, what is the problem? Initially the information was free to use as you wish .

His information is now making 1UP revenue through ads, not something anyone would really want without their permission surely?
 
V

Vennt

Unconfirmed Member
So "research" is just rewording other peoples work now? :lol

Shamefully poor show, it's even pretty blatant.
 
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