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[brian0057]

Sounds like BS.
They just don't wanna burn those bridges down as most games using Unreal Engine sell most on consoles.
Apart from Fortnite, those licensing fees rake in a ton of cash.

 

[Clear]

Profitability is more than just RRP vs BoM. The justification for setting margins is to offset other expenses, everything from R+D to ongoing maintenance and marketing. Things which are critical for consoles because outside of playing software designed specifically for them, they have such limited functionality.

Honestly speaking, if you cannot discern why smartphones and tablets are different from game consoles you really need to think more deeply about how the whole subject because they really are vastly dissimilar products in almost every dimension.

More than anything else this is an issue relating to Operating Systems, more so than hardware. Because ultimately that software layer is what everyone is writing to in order to access hardware functionality. If you look at market penetration by OS, then you get a sense of the sheer magnitude of difference between consoles and smart devices. Android for instance exists on 3 billion devices globally, and even then there's sufficient share left to accommodate Apple and its iOS products as brand/mindshare leaders.

 

[SHA]

We believe in common sense.

 

[twilo99]

They shouldn't be allowed to? They built their hardware and software ecosystem from scratch. They can charge whatever they want. This isn't communist China. If Epic doesn't want to sell their games on their store, they don't have to. The lawsuit is completely frivolous.

You are right, I think what I meant was that others should be allowed to leverage their install base and have a store on there, just like Steam is allowed to do so on Windows without having to pay anything to Microsoft for using their platform.

 

[Dane]

Nintendo doesn't sell hardware at a loss. I think Wii U was the one exception where they still said a single game purchase with the system was enough to bring in profit. So, clearly, 30% forever from day one probably brings in a biiiiiit more profit than needed for that hardware subsidizing, lol.

Valve may not have hardware costs (well, nowadays they do with Index, Deck and so on) but clearly put the R&D in software, hence the best platform/store (launcher, lol) with the widest range of capabilities for consumers and developers/publishers by a gigantic margin. That's why all the publishers who thought they could do better/as good eventually returned to Steam (before Microsoft bought them too, lol). Timmy boy himself has said before that's the reason they won't do certain features on EGS (though he's backpedaled on a ton of that too), because in his opinion it's not worth the cost, but at the same time spews the complete opposite bullshit like this, as if developing and maintaining a platform doesn't have costs of its own if hardware development isn't involved. Whatever works situationally at any given question/time rather than a real stance toward real issues.

Just as he was against Steam sales for devaluing products and now EGS is the free game/coupon/sale spot with Fortnite pretty much the only profitable endeavor on it (enough to cover fake "guaranteed" sales for other games to pretend they also made a profit but they're toning that down now).

He knows he's full of shit and just says whatever random crap certain clueless, ignorant, idolizing fanboys can latch on to defend him a la Elon Musk. Funny shit. At the end of the day EGS is a black hole for Fortnite money so the way they do business is one to avoid, not copy, for any other company.

Waiting for the next Epic lay offs or gutted platforms like Bandcamp to prove how for the people they are.

He's an hypocrite. EGS stole games that were meant to be released on Steam that people paid for it (Metro Exodus, Shenmue 3, and Phoenix Point) with only Metro honoring the pre orders before removal, while the other two said a huge fuck you to customers and that they would either accept EGS key on day one or wait one year for Steam. He said with a lot of proud that he did it with zero regrets and would double down to "remove steam monopoly" yet want to create his own monopoly by forcing exclusivity.

I wonder if someone at the court called out his exclusivity deals yet.

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

There's a massive amount of money that went into their R&D to develop those inhouse chips. They should be allowed to recoup there costs and profit. If they knew they wouldn't be able to charge 30% because of government regulation or frivolous lawsuits from Epic, they wouldn't have decided to make their own chips.

No more than AMD spends on R&D for their chips.

And the frankly insane margins Apple charges on their hardware products more than makes up for the R&D spend on chip design. There is no connection between Apple hardware development costs and their app store royalties.

Chips that are by the way, faster than anything on Android or third party mobile chips from snapdragon or other companies.

Irrelevant.

This is how capitalism and free market works. Don't like it? Don't buy Apple products or try to sell your apps on their store.

I don't do either of these. I also am not a shameless Apple shill, trying to justify their obscene profit margins on their hardware and software simply because they spend a lot on R&D.

Samsung also designs their own chips for their mobile devices. They also have a semiconductor manufacturing division that fabricates chips for them and other external customers (something Apple doesn't do, which requires fucking HUGE costs). Samsung on the other hand doesn't make anywhere near the profits Apple does, and it's partly because they don't put anywhere near the kinda profit margins on their products that Apple does.

 

[Ozriel]

They shouldn't be allowed to? They built their hardware and software ecosystem from scratch. They can charge whatever they want.

if you’re selling a general purpose, unsubsidized computing device, there’s a good argument that it really should be open to allow users sideload.

Let them charge what they want. Let users have the option to sideload apps from other sources. Android does that just fine.

 

[Ozriel]

Chips that are by the way, faster than anything on Android or third party mobile chips from snapdragon or other companies.

CPU gap is narrowing, and Qualcomm has overtaken them in the GPU front.

. He said with a lot of proud that he did it with zero regrets and would double down to "remove steam monopoly" yet want to create his own monopoly by forcing exclusivity.

I wonder if someone at the court called out his exclusivity deals yet.

Nobody’s calling that in court because it’s got nothing to do with the case, and you’d be laughed at if you claimed that Epic was on the way to creating a PC gaming monopoly by paying for exclusivity for a handful of PC games that most gamers happily did without.

 

[crazepharmacist]

No more than AMD spends on R&D for their chips.

And the frankly insane margins Apple charges on their hardware products more than makes up for the R&D spend on chip design. There is no connection between Apple hardware development costs and their app store royalties.



Irrelevant.



I don't do either of these. I also am not a shameless Apple shill, trying to justify their obscene profit margins on their hardware and software simply because they spend a lot on R&D.

Samsung also designs their own chips for their mobile devices. They also have a semiconductor manufacturing division that fabricates chips for them and other external customers (something Apple doesn't do, which requires fucking HUGE costs). Samsung on the other hand doesn't make anywhere near the profits Apple does, and it's partly because they don't put anywhere near the kinda profit margins on their products that Apple does.

And are Samsung's chips faster than Apples? No, they're not.

Maybe if their profit margins were higher they would be able to put more $ into R&D and have faster chips as a result. Just a thought.

I applaud you in taking a stance against Apple and not buying their products. That's absolutely your choice.
Some people here on the other hand would rather have the government and the courts force Apple to lower the % of their app store royalties.
That's a great way to clamp down on innovation.

 

[MikeM]

Who the fuck is Epic to try to dictate store revenue splits? Don’t like it then don’t put your software there. Lol wtf

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

And are Samsung's chips faster than Apples? No, they're not.

That's irrelevant to how much they spend manufacturing or designing them. WTF are you smoking with these utterly fallacious arguments?

Maybe if their profit margins were higher they would be able to put more $ into R&D and have faster chips as a result. Just a thought.

Fucking ugh!!

I applaud you in taking a stance against Apple and not buying their products. That's absolutely your choice.
Some people here on the other hand would rather have the government and the courts force Apple to lower the % of their app store royalties.
That's a great way to clamp down on innovation.

Innovation?!?! HAHAHAHAHAHA

Apple hasn't originated any meaningful innovation since they launched the first iPhone. They've been coasting on the achievements of the late Steve Jobs since he passed.

(And no, faster hardware is not innovation)

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

All this 'drama' is such a nothing burger and a waste of time and money that it should have been better invested in improving the Epic Game Store.

 

[DeepEnigma]

All this 'drama' is such a nothing burger and a waste of time and money that it should have been better invested in improving the Epic Game Store.

The only winners are lawyers in all of this.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

The only winners are lawyers in all of this.

Are they winners if there is a special circle waiting in hell for them?

 

[Jayjayhd34]

It is at loss or very close, unlike phones like IPhone 15 pro that cost 400 to produce and sold at 1400 euro for the base 128gb version

Your totally forgetting R&D cost but then don't think. Sony include that un there losses either.

 

[SmokedMeat]

And they are right.
Sony and Microsoft are subsidzing cost of hardware in exchange for 30% cut on software. Apple is selling iPhones with huge profit and they are still charging 30%.

You’re subsidizing the cost of the hardware through an online paywall, and paid cloud service for Sony.
Sony’s also profiting off each PS5 sold so, so much for that nonsense.

Epic needs them to push microtransaction sales, so they have to pretend they’re okay.