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[Revolutionary]

Finished up DLC 1 after DLC 2, which may have been a mistake because the Tonberry Knife's insane stagger damage made it fairly trivial. Only died once to Omega.

And with that, I am done with FFXVI until the PC release. Looking forward to seeing what mods people come up with.

 

[Punished Miku]

"Why you needn't have concern for the wolf, he has the appetite of a frost giant. Why just this morning I found the wolf with his nose buried in my nuts."



bruh ...

 

[Perfo]

Just finished Rising Tide and... meh? The questline was relatively short and doesn't feel worth the $20 price tag. I should've stuck to my guns and waited for the complete edition on sale for PC.

Also, jumping back into this game after playing a better Final Fantasy (Rebirth), as well as a better ARPG (Dragon's Dogma 2) really solidified how many missteps this game made.

I squeezed more than 15hrs in the DLC alone, how is that short? “Main quest” here is also composed of “Side quests” — considering almost all of them are strongly tied to the main events, region, characters and lore… shouldn’t be dismissed and the ending of the DLC itself is part of those. I think with this and Echoes of the Fallen they packed lots of quality content — and introduced many new fighting mechanics which in FF mode are pretty funny to play with. I actually hope we get more DLCs like this for 16 or any new entry in the future because it works so well in expanding the base game without having to wait years for a proper sequel or for nothing. My dream and I keep saying this is to have a main FF single player treated like XIV with endless patches and expansions released for years.

 

[Revolutionary]

I squeezed more than 15hrs in the DLC alone, how is that short? “Main quest” here is also composed of “Side quests” — considering almost all of them are strongly tied to the main events, region, characters and lore… shouldn’t be dismissed and the ending of the DLC itself is part of those. I think with this and Echoes of the Fallen they packed lots of quality content — and introduced many new fighting mechanics which in FF mode are pretty funny to play with. I actually hope we get more DLCs like this for 16 or any new entry in the future because it works so well in expanding the base game without having to wait years for a proper sequel or for nothing. My dream and I keep saying this is to have a main FF single player treated like XIV with endless patches and expansions released for years.

If you saw my other post in this thread where I said I killed Omega with the Tonberry Knife, you'd realize that I probably completed all the side quests in the DLC (I did). I didn't time myself but it felt like less than 5 hours in total.
Listen, when I think of $20 DLC in current year, I think of something like Horizon 2's Burning Shores (also $20), which had a large new landmass to explore with a nice variety of content to discover. Rising Tide's new areas are pretty but they are not particularly large, and there's virtually nothing to explore or discover out in the field. They're linear maps where all the 'secrets' are a handful of chests tucked into the corners - the sense of discovery is nil and exploring feels unrewarding, just like it did in the base game. This DLC was their opportunity to address some of that criticism but nope, it's just business as usual for Yoshi-P and Co. In comparison to FFVII Rebirth, the exploration in XVI feels like a joke.

That said, I'll admit the new powers are fun to mess around with. Also, I skipped the Palace of the Dead-type content they added because that type of content doesn't interest me anymore in either XIV or XVI. I'm sure that's where the majority of your time with this DLC went, because I can't imagine taking anywhere near 15 hours to finish just the storyline and side quests.

 

[Dr. Claus]

Listen, when I think of $20 DLC in current year, I think of something like Horizon 2's Burning Shores (also $20),

So you think of and prefer trash?

 

[Revolutionary]

So you think of and prefer trash?

What's funny is that I originally wrote Fallout New Vegas, but then I decided to go with something more recent because NV's DLC were only $10 each, which would have made Rising Tide look even worse in comparison.

As for Burning Shores, sure, the story sucked but my point is that I still felt like I got my money's worth because there was plenty to see and do.
Rising Tide is just the same ol' XVI shit, and after playing FFVII Rebirth (a better Final Fantasy), this DLC is yet another reminder of how XVI fell short. Again, this DLC was an opportunity to address some of the game's criticism but instead they just did the bare minimum to fulfill their Season Pass obligations. I wasn't expecting Rising Tide to reinvent the wheel by any means but it legitimately feels like cut content as opposed to something developed post-release.

 

[Dr. Claus]

What's funny is that I originally wrote Fallout New Vegas, but then I decided to go with something more recent because NV's DLC were only $10 each, which would have made Rising Tide look even worse in comparison.

As for Burning Shores, sure, the story sucked but my point is that I still felt like I got my money's worth because there was plenty to see and do.
Rising Tide is just the same ol' XVI shit, and after playing FFVII Rebirth (a better Final Fantasy), this DLC is yet another reminder of how XVI fell short. Again, this DLC was an opportunity to address some of the game's criticism but instead they just did the bare minimum to fulfill their Season Pass obligations. I wasn't expecting Rising Tide to reinvent the wheel by any means but it legitimately feels like cut content as opposed to something developed post-release.

I will say that the DLC/Expansions of previous generations were far better by a country mile. Games in general weren't as bloated with nonsense and pointless crap that ballooned development time. Making one NPC back in the 7th Gen versus one NPC in the 9th Generation can see an increase in dev time of nearly 400%. Far more polygons, much higher resolution assets and textures. Far more fluid animations. Voice Acting, rigging, etc. Much easier back in the day.

Burning Shores I would argue was far worse over all than Rising Tide. I would rather have a shorter and more tightly paced adventure with decent to great writing - all of which Rising Tide had. None of which Burning Shores had. As for cut content - I can definitely see where you are coming from as it meshes so well into the narrative and world, like it should have always been there. However, I would argue that that was due to how well crafted the world was to begin with and how quality the narrative and overall writing, characters, and level design for the game as a whole was.

As much as I greatly disliked Forbidden West, Burning Shores felt even more out of place and with a narrative that felt like it came from completely different writers. It created a disjointed and miserable experience all told.

 

[Flabagast]

Yeah I don’t really understand how you can like Burning shores. Outside of its graphics it was the definition of mediocre

 

[Punished Miku]

This is one of the worst songs in a mainline FF game, on every level. My brothers' band could literally do significantly better than this. Why ... this is a keystone moment in the game.

 

[Dr. Claus]

This is one of the worst songs in a mainline FF game, on every level. My brothers' band could literally do significantly better than this. Why ... this is a keystone moment in the game.

 

[SlimySnake]

I honestly don’t know why i bought the flc. I ended up disliking the game by the end and this is more of the same. I heard this dlc was more game of thrones like the first two hours but nope.

The dps check segment on the final boss is ridiculous. You need to be perfect with the dodges and supers. It’s so bad.

I suppose the graphics are still incredible.

 

[sigmaZ]

This is one of the worst songs in a mainline FF game, on every level. My brothers' band could literally do significantly better than this. Why ... this is a keystone moment in the game.

Haha I had that reaction multiple times during the game "Why the hell did they use this song here?"
I swear. I think a lot of the soundtrack was made ahead of the game and they just chose from the list at some points.

 

[Barakov]

This is one of the worst songs in a mainline FF game, on every level. My brothers' band could literally do significantly better than this. Why ... this is a keystone moment in the game.

Which is kinda crazy since the one after it is pretty good.

Spoiler

 

[Punished Miku]

Beat Bahamut. It was just maximum over the top DBZ. Definitely had fun with it.

Still an absurd amount of Game of Thrones elements lifted.

My final review is definitely going to be a bit of a mess. Lots of elements in this game that are awesome but also lots of issues that really suck. I knew about most of the negatives almost immediately. But I'm at least happy I'm finding some positives too.

 

[Zuzu]

I didn't have a lot of fun with the Rising Tide DLC but maybe I wasn't in the mood. I didn't love the new Eikon power. It was alright but nothing super great. The side quest design was basically the same as the base game; they didn't make any attempt to improve upon what was arguably the weakest part of FF16. The main quest storyline was Ok but not that interesting imo. Visuals were full of low, blurry textures and vegetation in the medium to far distance and FSR 1.0 looks bad in this DLC with lots of yucky upscaling jaggies all over the place.

 

[Zephyranthes]

Finished The Rising Tide. It's....okay, I guess. Mysidia is a pretty place, and I enjoyed the boss fight just before Leviathan...really forced you to stay on your toes. I didn't end up liking the Leviathan fight itself: the DPS check is kind of absurd for how strict it is, and I found many of the mechanics to be visually unclear about how you were supposed to avoid them, to the point where it felt more like trial and error. The one new significant character has all the charisma of cardboard, and side quests are just as bland as in the base game. It's such a stark contrast coming from FF7 Rebirth, where the characters are exploding with personality and most of the side quests are fun.

 

[Punished Miku]

The Undying, a stealthy secret order of assassins that talk in low monotone voices. Totally different from the House of the Undying. The Free Cities (in the desert focused on trade but totally not Braavos), Kinslayer, City Guard, a abnormally maternally attached prince (minus the breastfeeding), Lord Commander, (not) King's Landing burned by a dragon .... stopppppppppppppp this lol. Cease this Yoshida. And there's just as much taken from DBZ.

 

[Zheph]

The Undying, a stealthy secret order of assassins that talk in low monotone voices. Totally different from the House of the Undying. The Free Cities, Kinslayer, City Guard, a abnormally maternally attached prince (minus the breastfeeding), Lord Commander, (not) King's Landing burned by a dragon .... stopppppppppppppp this lol.

It feels like you would have hate it regardless lol

 

[Punished Miku]

Sleipner fight is my favorite so far. Had to actually die and readjust my tactics. Shows the potential of the combat system. Still way too many effects at times. Had to just block when I lost all visibility on the enemy and that worked well. Was honestly a lot of fun.

 

[Synless]

Played the DLC, decided to ay Final Fantasy difficulty… One massive problem, the games fucked.

Right in the beginning of “A chance encounter“ the two guys you follow are missing but their voices can be heard there is an invisible wall now that I can't go through. Tried reloading, tried another New Game +, it’s fucked.

 

[Go_Ly_Dow]

I'm loving the art direction, environment detail and music in the Rising Tide DLC. It was also great in Echoes of the Fallen.

I'm torn though whether for FFXVII they build on this engine or build on Rebirth's by using UE5 and customising it in a similar way they did to UE4 to make the 3D FF art style.

I think the XVI engine accelerates with its top notch lighting, shadows and characters rendering. Whilst UE is also excellent at character rendering like we see in FF7, but the lighting and shadows are weaker (at least with UE4), but then the enviroment interaction feels much better in Rebirth and the maps are also more explorable and feel less limited. Decisions decisions for the creatives at Square!

Sleipner fight is my favorite so far. Had to actually die and readjust my tactics. Shows the potential of the combat system. Still way too many effects at times. Had to just block when I lost all visibility on the enemy and that worked well. Was honestly a lot of fun.

That was one of my fav fights. As are a few of the other ones afterwards.

 

[Go_Ly_Dow]

Beat Bahamut. It was just maximum over the top DBZ. Definitely had fun with it.

Still an absurd amount of Game of Thrones elements lifted.

My final review is definitely going to be a bit of a mess. Lots of elements in this game that are awesome but also lots of issues that really suck. I knew about most of the negatives almost immediately. But I'm at least happy I'm finding some positives too.

I felt the Game of Thrones vibe was really strong in the first few hours and after that point it gradually weakens and then the plot themes become very classic Final Fantasy after the the timeskip from the 1st crystal. Sure the general writing and naming conventions are still GoT or typical medievil fair but the plot and characterisations are very JRPG to me, just subdued compared to let's say FF7 with a relaxed energy inbetween the big story moments.

 

[asdasdasdbb]

Mentioned this earlier in this thread (?) but I think the story got butchered at some point.

 

[Valonquar]

DLC 1 ended up being better than DLC 2 IMHO. The Leviathan fight was just some total BS on FF mode, and it didn't impact the overall narrative in any way. Getting the extra power up after DLC 2 at the stone was sort of WTF and kind or weird. 100%ing both DLCs takes very little time, gives you 10 more levels to cap out and a smidge more damage\defense for... nothing to use it on. The DLC 1 boss fight was near but it didn't have a vs Ifrit part which felt off. Clearing both DLCs changes nothing in Origin's story or dialog at all. Not even one extra line. Waste.

 

[sigmaZ]

I'm torn though whether for FFXVII they build on this engine or build on Rebirth's by using UE5 and customising it in a similar way they did to UE4 to make the 3D FF art style.

I think the XVI engine accelerates with its top notch lighting, shadows and characters rendering. Whilst UE is also excellent at character rendering like we see in FF7, but the lighting and shadows are weaker (at least with UE4), but then the enviroment interaction feels much better in Rebirth and the maps are also more explorable and feel less limited. Decisions decisions for the creatives at Square!

I think it's more how they use the engine. FF7 Rebirth decided to go with more rocky terrain which shows off UE4 and old tech like PS5's weak points. FF16 is more carefully stylized and sparkly to hide the flaws of everything. Though I like FF7 Rebirth way better than 16, the character models outside of cutscenes and the outdoor lighting can look like absolute dogcrap sometimes. If they use UE5, hopefully they will be able to utilize it well. There's a lot of potential to be had.

The environment interaction is pretty much all up to the design and has little to do when any limitation of the image. I'd personal rather step on glass than play through more FF16-style side quests and exploration again.

 

[SkylineRKR]

I hated all fights. Because of the basic moveset being useless, and the small few abilities being on cooldown while having no advantages on certain enemy classes. Its just frustrating, you either slot posture breaking moves, because these fights are shit, or you slot damage moves because the former are useless during stagger. Why can't you create at least 2 decks and swap them mid battle, one with the shorter cooldown moves/trash mob loadout and one for dealing actual damage.

I liked XVI most when it was on rails telling a story, which starts off promising but its clear the team couldn't match GRRM so they obviously just gave up.

 

[Go_Ly_Dow]

I think it's more how they use the engine. FF7 Rebirth decided to go with more rocky terrain which shows off UE4 and old tech like PS5's weak points. FF16 is more carefully stylized and sparkly to hide the flaws of everything. Though I like FF7 Rebirth way better than 16, the character models outside of cutscenes and the outdoor lighting can look like absolute dogcrap sometimes. If they use UE5, hopefully they will be able to utilize it well. There's a lot of potential to be had.

The environment interaction is pretty much all up to the design and has little to do when any limitation of the image. I'd personal rather step on glass than play through more FF16-style side quests and exploration again.

Going forward it probably makes sense to use UE5 on PS6, if it can help them develop a game with the same efficency as Rebirth. Rebirth feels like the first FF since the PS1 where whatever the developers wanted in they included without compromrises or worries about the tech getting in the way. The big draw back of Unreal is probably that Epic charge I think about a 5% royalty on all the revenue generated by the game. So that may be about $20mil rotalty minimum for an FF game that goes on to sell 3-4mil within the first few months of launch at $70.

That said it still might be a lot cheaper than or cost around the same as developing your own tech and the struggles/issues that brings about and having to update it.

If FF continues with the high budget route (I think it will with FFXVII and an FFX Remake) then the tech side of things is very important as they can't afford another 13, 14 and 15 situation with dev costs being much higher now. The series has a sales ceiling of about 8-10mil, and not 20-30mil the like other franchises, but the fans have very high expectations and want big games with a lot of gameplay variety and characters. These games don't play it safe either by reinventing themselves which each iteration.

I hope it can thrive for at least one more generation or two after this one.

 

[Punished Miku]

Odin fight was totally sick. His moveset is a lot of fun as well.

Of course they have something similar to "The Wall."

 

[Punished Miku]

Finished it. I give it a 7.5.

Story: flaming garbage. I don't know where to even start. There's maybe a few brief moments of interest with Dion, Jill and Gav but that's about it. The whole premise is absurd on almost every level. Some of the bearer / dominant stuff could have been interesting but they shit the bed on a lot of it. I think the last fight is brilliant if you view it as a ruthless parody of how absurd FF is. Its totally cheesy and hilarious. Dialogue is sometimes pretty good but most of the time when anyone is speaking its literally conveying nothing. Its pointless gibberish that doesn't advance the story at all. I was speed reading it and skipping everything I could to get through it while reading what was said. Clive is somewhat likeable but most of the game he just acts like this invincible person that doesn't really make a lot of sense.

Game structure: flaming garbage. I skipped every side quest in the whole game except the ones you are mandated to do and I still felt the game was ridiculously bloated to the extent that I just legitimately was in shock. Every time you have to go to the hideout it sucks. I think there's literally 10 solid hours of gameplay in here that is fun and the rest is cutscenes and padding.

Borderline plagiarism: Game of Thrones, DBZ. Just to shocking levels.

Soundtrack: possibly the worst of the mainline entries. There's 2 great songs that caught my ear and that's it. To sail forbidden seas is obviously the best song in the game, which is why they used it literally on almost every boss fight which was ridiculous. Lion and the Hare is also great but its 50% an Uematsu remix. There are some others that are fine but not remarkable. Lack of live instruments on the recording hurt it a lot.

Combat: starts out horribly. Major issues with damage sponge enemies. But in the last 25% of the game you finally get enough abilities that its pretty awesome. Odin, Titan and Bahamut are the best and its all the last ones you get. Garuda is so bad it should be deleted from the game. Several of the bosses were phenomenal: behemoth, slepnir, odin, ultima. Even then you frequently had issues where it was LITERALLY impossible to see what was happening. Art style is cool but super messy in combat to a ridiculous degree.

RPG elements: I didn't upgrade anything or craft anything. I didn't grind ever and skipped as much as I could. I didn't change my accessories once. Literally none of it matters. Its an action game and all of that should have been deleted.

Art style / graphics: super good most of the time, but uneven. Limited hallways with invisible walls. Wooden npcs. But most things looked great.

They should have made this a 25 hour Bayonetta / Final Fantasy. Ignore all the side quests and like 80% of the story and cutscenes. Make more fights that are great, throw in some better level design / platforming. Expand combat much earlier. Overall I enjoyed it, but was waiting for it to be over for a long time and I felt I went as fast as I could.