Support NeoGAF

[GigaBowser]

Playing Diablo until midnight then jumping straight into FF16 until work at 7 AM

A true gamers thanks yous for gold my friends

 

[Brigandier]

I'm finished for tonight/morning it's nearly 6am here.

Got past the first "mega boss" loving it so far the voice acting is really good, Cid looks like Nathan Drake

 

[Sakura]

Game isn't handholdy. It can get challenging and Final Fantasy mode was designed specifically for a second playthrough. That would be like asking why do you not get NG+1 or +2 in Dark Souls from the start.

And yet the amount of streamers I've seen die against the Dragoon during the Prologue would surprise you.

Handholdy as in tutorials not that the game is easy...

 

[Danjin44]

Handholdy as in tutorials not that the game is easy...

Thats common in most JRPGs, I mean I LOVE Xenoblade but those games also have lots of tutorials, heck Persona 3-5 takes their sweet time to start the actual game.

 

[Perfo]

The amount of love this game is getting from people actually playing and enjoying it around the web warms my heart.
Well except at RE where once again a loud minority thrive in ruining people’s enjoyment of it just for the sake of doing it and calling it with many different names to justify their uncontrollable hate. Miserable people who were never taught the true meaning of the word love.

Once again I’m here hoping the vast majority ignores that echo chamber and moves in buying millions of copies of this game like that Harry Potter game and send once again the only message that counts: have fun in life, share it and spread it like a disease!

 

[Go_Ly_Dow]

Who's making the OT? x

 

[Fabieter]

Thats common in most JRPGs, I mean I LOVE Xenoblade but those games also have lots of tutorials, heck Persona 3-5 takes their sweet time to start the actual game.

Persona 4 is a visual novel for the first 5 hours. Love the game I own It like 5 times but the fact thar modern gaming is always hated soo much aint it.

 

[Danjin44]

Persona 4 is a visual novel for the first 5 hours. Love the game I own It like 5 times but the fact thar modern gaming is always hated soo much aint it.

I love the game too and I agree, spend most beganing of the game talking to characters without any battles.

 

[ProtoByte]

Sure you can try to make that argument (I don't agree) but the rpg mechanics were undeniably deeper than what we are getting with this game it seems

Seriously, in what substantial way?

 

[Unknown Soldier]

And yet the amount of streamers I've seen die against the Dragoon during the Prologue would surprise you.

How many of them died on purpose to draw more attention though?

 

[Komatsu]

Who's making the OT? x

mortal - are you still doing it, sir? I can post it if you’d like

 

[ProtoByte]

When it’s a long running series, it is IMPOSSIBLE for people to not have certain expectations. We are human. It is impossible; I don’t care what anyone says. And even Yoshi-P said it himself, that the FF series kind of lost its foundation after Sakaguchi left.

To me, the only FF team that still speaks to me is CBU1, in charge of VII/VIII/X/XIII/VIIR. Their games have the aesthetic and gameplay that I’m looking for with FF and their games still feel like the older era FF’s. Personally. And I respect this team more for coming up with a unique battle system that, despite some flaws, is largely very praised, while respecting traditional elements of prior FF’s. That is the right way to go, IMO.

I’m happy for people who are excited for FFXVI but I can’t shake how utterly Western it feels and I don’t like that at all. The combat being more DMC-like is fine, but it’s the overall product that feels incredibly Western, from the muted color palette, to the more generic-looking fantasy world, to the lack of gorgeous CG cutscenes the series is known for, etc. It’s disappointing to me. Like at this point absolutely nothing is safe when it comes to mainline FF’s. That’s not a good thing. Every entry can be fresh, but just having chocobos, spell names, and some monsters being the same is not nearly enough for a long running franchise. And unlike, say, BOTW/TOTK, XVI doesn’t do anything revolutionary to make up for omitting some beloved series traits; it’s rather derivative, much like the MMO that this team has worked on. But it’s clear that CBU1 is basically Final Fantasy’s “Western-oriented” team that’s inspired by Western media + Matsuno (who is also heavily inspired by Western media).

Also, while Tabata had a point about “FF disease,” he has no room to talk. He made the story and story content/presentation, which is always the the top priority in FF games, the last priority, all for a boring and subpar open world.

It feeling Western isn't something that I personally feel or understand. That said, I get what you mean. I mostly vibe with the style CBU1 does, BUT. FF16 is great step for the franchise, and probably for SE as a whole. If anything it, it raises the bar in terms of managing projects, and in terms of writing in particular.

 

[Fabieter]

Seriously, in what substantial way?

I generally prefer jrpgs over western rpgs but compared to western rpgs all jrpgs have lacking role playing.

 

[Danjin44]

When it’s a long running series, it is IMPOSSIBLE for people to not have certain expectations.

And majority of long running series go through change, nothing I mean NOTHING in this world is constant, things will change and you cant stop it.

 

[Fabieter]

When it’s a long running series, it is IMPOSSIBLE for people to not have certain expectations. We are human. It is impossible; I don’t care what anyone says. And even Yoshi-P said it himself, that the FF series kind of lost its foundation after Sakaguchi left.

To me, the only FF team that still speaks to me is CBU1, in charge of VII/VIII/X/XIII/VIIR. Their games have the aesthetic and gameplay that I’m looking for with FF and their games still feel like the older era FF’s. Personally. And I respect this team more for coming up with a unique battle system that, despite some flaws, is largely very praised, while respecting traditional elements of prior FF’s. That is the right way to go, IMO.

I’m happy for people who are excited for FFXVI but I can’t shake how utterly Western it feels and I don’t like that at all. The combat being more DMC-like is fine, but it’s the overall product that feels incredibly Western, from the muted color palette, to the more generic-looking fantasy world, to the lack of gorgeous CG cutscenes the series is known for, etc. It’s disappointing to me. Like at this point absolutely nothing is safe when it comes to mainline FF’s. That’s not a good thing. Every entry can be fresh, but just having chocobos, spell names, and some monsters being the same is not nearly enough for a long running franchise. And unlike, say, BOTW/TOTK, XVI doesn’t do anything revolutionary to make up for omitting some beloved series traits; it’s rather derivative, much like the MMO that this team has worked on. But it’s clear that CBU1 is basically Final Fantasy’s “Western-oriented” team that’s inspired by Western media + Matsuno (who is also heavily inspired by Western media).

Also, while Tabata had a point about “FF disease,” he has no room to talk. He made the story and story content/presentation, which is always the the top priority in FF games, the last priority, all for a boring and subpar open world.

Do you like yakuza like a dragon and if you do do you also like the older games? Iam a broken record wirh this example but it fits so well with all those ff fans who can't accept other ways for the franchise.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

If any of the SNES final fantasies were remade in 3D people would suddenly call them not final fantasy, it’s insanity.

It’s like these whiners never played an FF game before FF7

 

[DelireMan7]

If any of the SNES final fantasies were remade in 3D people would suddenly call them not final fantasy, it’s insanity.

 

[Danjin44]

If any of the SNES final fantasies were remade in 3D people would suddenly call them not final fantasy, it’s insanity.

It’s like these whiners never played an FF game before FF7

They too drowned on their own nostalgic, they are addicted to it.

 

[CamHostage]

And majority of long running series go through change, nothing I mean NOTHING in this world is constant, things will change and you cant stop it.

Change is fine; Final Fantasy has changed in significant ways just about every game.

However, seeing this lean towards the more popular, more aggro, more streamable action genre instead of finding a way to reinvent RPG tactics, at a time when the traditional turnbased or menu-driven RPG strategy play systems are becoming more and more rare after falling out of vogue... its just a little disheartening to think about.

Can't hold it against the game Square actually made, which seems like it'll be big and very cool. Just in general though, I would like to see one of the biggest names in RPGs continue to make big contributions to its core genre. They seem to be doing great things in the Action/Action RPG field with XVI, but it's be a shame if straight-up RPGs fell further away without Final Fantasy pushing it to the next level, and hopefully other FF or Square games will be there to take up that mantel.

 

[ProtoByte]

I generally prefer jrpgs over western rpgs but compared to western rpgs all jrpgs have lacking role playing.

Big time. Immersive sims have never really been classified as RPGs in a literalnsense, but even playing the most recent Deus Ex games puts "role-playing" in 99% of JRPGs to shame.

Now, that's not to say JRPGs are bad - but the real appeal there seems to have always been about aesthetics and a narrative style seen as foreign and different as compared to actual mechanics.

 

[Danjin44]

Change is fine; Final Fantasy has changed in significant ways just about every game.

However, seeing this lean towards the more popular, more aggro, more streamable action genre instead of finding a way to reinvent RPG tactics, at a time when the traditional turnbased or menu-driven RPG strategy play systems are becoming more and more rare after falling out of vogue... its just a little disheartening to think about.

Can't hold it against the game Square actually made, which seems like it'll be big and very cool. Just in general though, I would like to see one of the biggest names in RPGs continue to make big contributions to its core genre. They seem to be doing great things in the Action/Action RPG field with XVI, but it's be a shame if straight-up RPGs fell further away without Final Fantasy pushing it to the next level, and hopefully other FF or Square games will be there to take up that mantel.

We are still getting quality turn based RPGs with games like Bravely Default and Octopath and Atlus still makes turn based combat like SMT, Persona and and upcoming Metaphor.

But AA games is the only was turn based can exist because they are niche same way SRPG and Japanese adventure games like Ace Attorney series are.

 

[ProtoByte]

If any of the SNES final fantasies were remade in 3D people would suddenly call them not final fantasy, it’s insanity.

It’s like these whiners never played an FF game before FF7

They probably haven't, if we're being honest. I mean, just look at the lifetime sales across the franchise. Everything post VII is really the franchises claim to relevance.

I can understand why people have something of a strange reaction to this game, if only for the aesthetic. FF since 7 has always maintained a pretty hybrid spin on fantasy visuals, and this game plays it pretty straight with the "medieval" look.

 

[Ivory Samoan]

So weird how every single bad review, mentions the diversity fuck fest.

I'm dark skinned, and I'm so over this tsunami of psuedo white guilt virtue warrior malarky, LET THEM MAKE THE GAME HOWEVER THEY LIKE.

Stumbled upon Metro's shit ball of a review, https://metro.co.uk/2023/06/22/fina...of-blizzara-and-fira-18993975/?ico=mosaic_tag - a 6/10 of course, they had this to say:

"It’s also weird and uncomfortable (given how the game’s cast is solely white European, despite many of the villages clearly being based on African and Middle Eastern architecture) how much of the early plot revolves around slavery, and Clive’s incredibly slow realisation that maybe it might be a bad idea."

What's this peasant want??, turn all the slaves black and all will be right with the world? Get rid of the slaves altogether cause 'offensive'?

Metro, you've just joined the elite group of fucktard publications who I will joyfully slam at any moment that feels fitting: congrats.

Sincerely,

Gamer of color who's over this charade.

 

[AncientOrigin]

I was spot on I wrote 88-89.Which is a great score.

 

[YukiOnna]

I don't understand why this shit is locked to beating the game first. Game seems super handholdy too. They don't trust the players or what?

Personally, I think it was weird to divide the two difficulties solely by whether you have the auto accessories at the start or not. I think a Hard mode should have been introduced and they could save the NG+ FF mode w/ new unlocks as they liked. Looks like difficulty depends on if you're good at action games already or not from what I'm reading. Then again, 16 did the same as 7R IIRC.

 

[damidu]

So weird how every single bad review, mentions the diversity fuck fest.

I'm dark skinned, and I'm so over this tsunami of psuedo white guilt virtue warrior malarky, LET THEM MAKE THE GAME HOWEVER THEY LIKE.

Stumbled upon Metro's shit ball of a review, https://metro.co.uk/2023/06/22/fina...of-blizzara-and-fira-18993975/?ico=mosaic_tag - a 6/10 of course, they had this to say:

"It’s also weird and uncomfortable (given how the game’s cast is solely white European, despite many of the villages clearly being based on African and Middle Eastern architecture) how much of the early plot revolves around slavery, and Clive’s incredibly slow realisation that maybe it might be a bad idea."

What's this peasant want??, turn all the slaves black and all will be right with the world? Get rid of the slaves altogether cause 'offensive'?

Metro, you've just joined the elite group of fucktard publications who I will joyfully slam at any moment that feels fitting: congrats.

Sincerely,

Gamer of color who's over this charade.

yeah. though it makes it much easier to spot which reviews to ignore,
this is basically ending on mid90, once you filter out these weirdos

 

[Nankatsu]

Got the alert to pick my game at the shop.

Why so soon? I barely started working and have a full work day ahead of me.

 

[Boneless]

Clive’s incredibly slow realisation that maybe it might be a bad idea."

Agree with your points, also specifically on the above;

Slavery is bad, but a 100 years ago only few people thought slavery was bad. Just like most people today don't think eating animals is bad, this might be completely different in a 100 years.

Point being, you cannot apply today's morality randomly onto scenarios.

 

[Davesky]

Metro Gamecentral gone woke. 6/10

My favourite game reviewer in the past, pretty annoyed that I used them to read first review and opinion of the game and hope it doesn’t cloud my own overall judgement.

 

[systemr123]

This game is…

 

[Schmendrick]

not sure I like the extreme on rails nature the game has displayed so far.
I just had the

Spoiler

next big Eikon fight with Garuda

and so far it was just running from tiny arena room to tiny arena room. Feels really ...really... restricted so far.

 

[mckmas8808]

When people say “I’m not buying it because it doesn’t have a 90+ MC,” it is the equivalent of a person telling you “I’m just not looking for a relationship.”

They’re not looking for a relationship… with you. They’re not that interested. From footage that they’ve seen, it hasn’t piqued their interest enough to go and get it Day 1. Maybe a high MC average would have swayed them to think “you know what, maybe it’s amazing enough for me to enjoy it even though it doesn’t really speak to me that much.” But the MC average is not high enough to have swayed them.

This narrative of “ugh people are SHEEP for basing their purchases on MC scores!” is hilariously disingenuous.

The bolded is you adding extra sauce to the conversation. If they didn't want to buy the game because it hasn't piqued their interest, then they should just say that. But no........they are saying they aren't buying it because it received a 89 on Metacritic and not a 90.

I love MC and OC personally, but only buying 90+ scored games is stupid. 99% of gamers would agree with me on this. And I believe you agree with me too. So I'm not sure what we are actually discussing here.

 

[mckmas8808]

Yeah that's bullshit too.

Imagine claiming it's the best ever final fantasy....that's wild....it should be at a 95 metacritic if that's the case...

Better than FFV, VI and IX....wowza

This you?

 

[The artful mincer]

I'am not that personally bothered by the low scores even if given for stupid reasons.

At the end of the day reviews are subjective opinions and any reviewer can dock or give points for any reason they please. ( Other than outright lying) I can choose to ignore them.

The true villian here is Metacritic as they literally give these jokers extra weight and they friggin flaut it in there Q and A. ( Eurogamer Is one of the sites that is weighted positively)

We talk about bias alot I couldn't think of a more text book example.

Honestly I think we should consider banning them.

 

[AcrosstheSea]

Agree with your points, also specifically on the above;

Slavery is bad, but a 100 years ago only few people thought slavery was bad. Just like most people today don't think eating animals is bad, this might be completely different in a 100 years.

Point being, you cannot apply today's morality randomly onto scenarios.

You just figured out the crux of the issue with these people who have sheltered emotions.

They are incapable of realizing context and nuance in anything. FFXVI's world isn't supposed to be depicting the modern times. Dark subject matter shouldn't be taboo when you're trying to tell a story and the context of that story is that this was a very common thing at that time. It mirrors real society, you look back 100's of years and you'll find plenty of things that are fucked up by today's standards but people evolve and change. You don't filter your game that's trying to represent an old time through a modern lens, you depict it by what makes sense in the old time you're trying to emulate.

In terms of diversity they are creating a world they want to create, to dock points for that is so ridiculous. Would anyone dock points if it didn't have a white cast at all? No and good they shouldn't. I hate that everyone looks at everything in terms of identity now.

 

[mckmas8808]

Agree with your points, also specifically on the above;

Slavery is bad, but a 100 years ago only few people thought slavery was bad. Just like most people today don't think eating animals is bad, this might be completely different in a 100 years.

Point being, you cannot apply today's morality randomly onto scenarios.

You do know that 100 years ago was 1923.........right?

 

[Dr. Claus]

You do know that 100 years ago was 1923.........right?

...Shut up and stop making me feel old.

100 years ago is 1890 and I will hear no different.

 

[Secret_Lover]

Docking points from a fictional fantasy game because you wish it had more black slaves sounds pretty racist to me but what do I know.

 

[Draugoth]

Nintendo magic i guess

 

[Honey Bunny]

Someone make the fucking OT already the guy is clearly not doing it

 

[Draugoth]

Someone make the fucking OT already the guy is clearly not doing it

|OT| - FINAL FANTASY XVI |OT| Ifrit Bleeds We Can Kill It

🌹OT title suggested by @Meicyn

www.neogaf.com

 

[Kvally]

I

Someone make the fucking OT already the guy is clearly not doing it

This one?

|OT| - FINAL FANTASY XVI |OT| Ifrit Bleeds We Can Kill It

🌹OT title suggested by @Meicyn

www.neogaf.com

 

[Days like these...]

Nintendo magic i guess

That's not it chief. XC 3 is the better RPG

 

[Draugoth]

That's not it chief. XC 3 is the better RPG

Thanks, now i want to play it

 

[cash_longfellow]

That's not it chief. XC 3 is the better RPG

Is it a comparison of RPGs, or is it individual reviews? I don’t see what your point is here.

 

[Ivory Samoan]

Docking points from a fictional fantasy game because you wish it had more black slaves sounds pretty racist to me but what do I know.

It is such a fucking weirdo fest over in those clown infested stink holes.

In other news, 12 hours in - this is right up there with VI so far for me, and VI is my 2nd fave (VII OG day one edition is my #1 still).

 

[Gaiff]

...Shut up and stop making me feel old.

100 years ago is 1890 and I will hear no different.

Yep, hard to fathom that people born in 2000 are 23 years old, not 10.

 

[mckmas8808]

It is such a fucking weirdo fest over in those clown infested stink holes.

In other news, 12 hours in - this is right up there with VI so far for me, and VI is my 2nd fave (VII OG day one edition is my #1 still).

That says alot coming from an OG FF fan.

 

[Dr. Claus]

That's not it chief. XC 3 is the better RPG

I haven't come close to beating* FFXVI, but I am not sure it is. XC3 is amazing - but the repetitious nature of having to constantly go back and search for new side quests in old areas, the ease of which it was to get super OP and have the agme become mindless for very long stretches (especially from around CHapter 4 onwards), and its plot being very, very slow to really get going? It felt like the weakest of the Xenobalde Trilogy.

But the big difference between the two on RPGSite is that they are two completely different reviewers and one had a lot more criticisms with FFXVI than the other did with XBC3. Hence the different review scores. Having actually *read* both reviews (which clearly the person you quoted didn't do), you can tell where they are coming from and it wasn't some ideologically disposed trash review like The Guardian or Eurogamer.

 

[Phalk]

I'm sad it couldn't maintain a 90 on OC.