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[Devolution]

I really like this post, Dev, but would you flesh out the bolded part for me? I'm not sure what you mean by that claim.

I consider someone like Bayonetta to own her sexuality, to have agency and to be designed in a way that's hilarious and engaging. To some people she was "more of the same problem." I would ask those same people, if we had say a broad spectrum of female characters, including the ones you want to see, would she remain a problem to you?

As for the focus group idea, it was just one of many ideas I had instead of just complaining. If it doesn't really help, then whatever.

 

[Averon]

Gaming reporters should stick to talking about how the games play. All this social commentary regarding gaming is just annoying to me now

I don't think they should stop taking about social issues that may effect the medium in various ways. But what these guys/gals need to do is stop approaching subjects being so obnoxious, condescending, rude, holier-than-thou, and combative. AAll this does is make discussion toxic, which mean people just dig deeper into their initial positions. And we end up with are a lot of yelling and arguing and nothing else.

 

[QisTopTier]

And there's this false idea some guys have about women being offended by big boobs in games and all that stuff. Maybe ah... "bigger" girls are offended by it but I've known girls who enjoy games like DOA Xtreme.

Speaking of DOA I'm pretty sure it's one most popular fighting games with casual female fighting game fans. I'm serious

 

[Karsticles]

I consider someone like Bayonetta to own her sexuality, to have agency and to be designed in a way that's hilarious and engaging. To some people she was "more of the same problem." I would ask those same people, if we had say a broad spectrum of female characters, including the ones you want to see, would she remain a problem to you?

As for the focus group idea, it was just one of many ideas I had instead of just complaining. If it doesn't really help, then whatever.

Ah I see, so the "culture" you were referencing was gaming culture. I was confused because I thought you were referring to Japanese culture, and that didn't make sense within the context of the rest of your post. Thank you for clarifying, and I agree about Bayonetta.

With regard to focus groups, I suppose I would be fine if western developers ran women-based focus groups on their characters, since they're going to do focus groups anyway. Might as well get diverse input in there. I just cringe at the idea of a real artist like Kamitani designing characters "for the people", if you catch my drift. It strongly interferes with my romantic notions of what it means to be an artist, haha.

 

[Devolution]

Ah I see, so the "culture" you were referencing was gaming culture. I was confused because I thought you were referring to Japanese culture, and that didn't make sense within the context of the rest of your post. Thank you for clarifying, and I agree about Bayonetta.

With regard to focus groups, I suppose I would be fine if western developers ran women-based focus groups on their characters, since they're going to do focus groups anyway. Might as well get diverse input in there. I just cringe at the idea of a real artist like Kamitani designing characters "for the people", if you catch my drift. It strongly interferes with my romantic notions of what it means to be an artist, haha.

Oh definitely, I was thinking of focus groups more for bigger devs anyway like say those that make MMOs where you see a constant theme recurring. Basically I tire of the boobs/ass/middrift/thighs out designs of armor in some games.

 

[Trakdown]

I consider someone like Bayonetta to own her sexuality, to have agency and to be designed in a way that's hilarious and engaging. To some people she was "more of the same problem." I would ask those same people, if we had say a broad spectrum of female characters, including the ones you want to see, would she remain a problem to you?

As for the focus group idea, it was just one of many ideas I had instead of just complaining. If it doesn't really help, then whatever.

I certainly agree with the points you made about variety; I mean, talk about something we can all agree on.

A question: Often when we get to this part in the conversation that we need more variety for female characters, the conversation just kind of stops. Can you maybe point to a few examples of what the industry is missing, or give a few descriptions of a type of female character that should be more prevalent? I'm honestly interested because my experience has had quite a few women characters that I thought were pretty good, but I'm probably not the best source for it so maybe somebody else with a different perspective can guide me to what's missing/misrepresented so I can understand it better.

 

[Karsticles]

Oh definitely, I was thinking of focus groups more for bigger devs anyway like say those that make MMOs where you see a constant theme recurring. Basically I tire of the boobs/ass/middrift/thighs out designs of armor in some games.

Ah, I can respect that, then. I'm playing through Monster Hunter 3U right now, and it has a really great armor selection for female characters. Everything from full-on traditional war gear to cowgirl outfits.

Spoiler

/MH proselytizing

 

[Devolution]

I certainly agree with the points you made about variety; I mean, talk about something we can all agree on.

A question: Often when we get to this part in the conversation that we need more variety for female characters, the conversation just kind of stops. Can you maybe point to a few examples of what the industry is missing, or give a few descriptions of a type of female character that should be more prevalent? I'm honestly interested because my experience has had quite a few women characters that I thought were pretty good, but I'm probably not the best source for it so maybe somebody else with a different perspective can guide me to what's missing/misrepresented so I can understand it better.

Well more tomboys couldn't hurt. More female characters who are developed from a personality standpoint first and then designed based around the role they are trying to fill. Maybe putting more thought into their mindset. A lot of characters just generally end up being designed for the male gaze regardless of their personality or occupation. I think the closest I've come across to a character I thought was cool, adept and well designed was Kat from Reach. She genuinely seemed like someone I'd design if I was putting a character into a game. I think the biggest thing holding character design back for us is just acknowledging women are people with vastly different personalities and interests really.

 

[QisTopTier]

I'm all for more tomboy characters

 

[Karsticles]

I'm all for more tomboy characters

Your wish has been granted!

Spoiler

Hahaha.

 

[QisTopTier]

Your wish has been granted!

Spoiler

Hahaha.

I don't like how she plays I like hitomi though, although she's light on the tomboy side, oh and makoto in blazblue

A lot of my favorite characters are either tomboys or women with a strong sense of power. Fairy Tail is a pretty pandering manga/anime

Spoiler

To both genders actually

but I like Erza's character the most in the series, she's fucking bad ass, plus she has the best theme song

 

[ReeseHoward]

Truly sexualized male characters make many men (and boys) uncomfortable, the comic points out. Where would one find such male representations in gaming culture? Hmm... how about every Final Fantasy ever created? Why have I never seen (or so rarely I can't remember) a cultural piece about how androgynous male characters from Final Fantasy, with confusingly beautiful faces and huge eyes, are a force for equality in games and, in addition, a challenge to the incredibly rigid masculine gender roles which pervade almost all western games?

Instead, when it comes time to discuss a similarly styled JRPG's story or characters, most game critics talk at length about the awkwardness of these gender role subversions.

Speaking of this...

 

[SixMachine]

Gaming reporters should stick to talking about how the games play. All this social commentary regarding gaming is just annoying to me now

I have to admit, I don't trust most reporters on how a game plays. For example I really like fighting games and action games and they really don't give an insight into how it actually plays or any of the game mechanics. Those 2 genres I usually avoid normal reviews on popular sites and try to look at what many people say and usually the most active people have the most to say about the mechanics or how the game actually plays.

And the sad thing is, it may sound like a I'm backseat gaming but when I see many media people play games, they honestly aren't impressive (well of course no one is perfect when it comes to gaming especially when you first get your hands on it). Usually there is carry over in video game genres, like if you understand how action games work you can understand how to do well in GOW or DMC, another example is if you know how to play a TPS you might be able to grasp another TPS more quickly than someone who is fresh. But I see them play in streams and videos and it just turns me off the game because I see rookie mistakes even when they say something like they played all the games in the series (Like when people were playing the DMC HD collection, why are they holding on lock on then complaining about their movement? You should only press it when you need it, and that should be obvious for people who went through the whole series). Or they miss things and don't learn from a mistake, which is something that is important in learning how to beat a game imo. Everyone makes mistakes (constantly and consecutively, no exceptions everyone is human) but how you learn and compensate for them actually is something people gain after years of gaming experience.

Now I know they are not writing a guide, but I rather take the impression from the guy who knows what he is doing rather than someone who isn't. It's just me, but I know that they are reviewing and writing for the casual audience who might not be familiar, that is fine, but there rarely any specialist writers that I feel can really dig into a game. I'm sorry if my rant isn't anything relevant to Dragon's Crown haha.

 

[Trakdown]

Well more tomboys couldn't hurt. More female characters who are developed from a personality standpoint first and then designed based around the role they are trying to fill. Maybe putting more thought into their mindset. A lot of characters just generally end up being designed for the male gaze regardless of their personality or occupation. I think the closest I've come across to a character I thought was cool, adept and well designed was Kat from Reach. She genuinely seemed like someone I'd design if I was putting a character into a game. I think the biggest thing holding character design back for us is just acknowledging women are people with vastly different personalities and interests really.

Cool, thanks for the response. I always thought women like Terra Branford or Celes Chere were well designed, but then I think there was more of a need to flesh them out as characters d/t the limitation of the FFVI art style. Not saying there were paragons of femininity or anything, but they were very well done characters. I think the industry will move that way with a good enough shove, but it's gonna take some time and more importantly, we need to get more (qualified) women into the industry so that these ideas get bounced around. I'm guessing that'll happen, just not as soon as we'd like.

 

[Devolution]

Cool, thanks for the response. I always thought women like Terra Branford or Celes Chere were well designed, but then I think there was more of a need to flesh them out as characters d/t the limitation of the FFVI art style. Not saying there were paragons of femininity or anything, but they were very well done characters. I think the industry will move that way with a good enough shove, but it's gonna take some time and more importantly, we need to get more (qualified) women into the industry so that these ideas get bounced around. I'm guessing that'll happen, just not as soon as we'd like.

It's not just a games problem to be honest. I've always told friends growing up as a tomboy sucked. I didn't want to grow up pretty or sexy, I wanted to be cool. But how many women are cool?

 

[Karsticles]

It's not just a games problem to be honest. I've always told friends growing up as a tomboy sucked. I didn't want to grow up pretty or sexy, I wanted to be cool. But how many women are cool?

Yeah, women being "cool" is an interesting issue. My wife also grew up as a tomboy, and she is always jealous when there are "guy moments" in films. For example, when Spartacus promises to take care of his friend's family if one of them should die in...Spartacus, or when Magneto and Prof. X had their bromance moments in First Class. You just don't see that kind of stuff between women in media, it's always two women getting in touch with their feelings together or something like that. Being a shoulder to cry on, helping them become fashionable, and a lot of other things. I don't have anything against that, but even in movies designed "for women", I rarely see any kind of female empowerment. It's almost always some kind of reflection on an experience provided for the female by a male.

Now I'm just rambling, so I'll stop.

I have to admit, I don't trust most reporters on how a game plays. For example I really like fighting games and action games and they really don't give an insight into how it actually plays or any of the game mechanics. Those 2 genres I usually avoid normal reviews on popular sites and try to look at what many people say and usually the most active people have the most to say about the mechanics or how the game actually plays.

I don't trust gaming journalists about anything but news. I'm glad they provide that. Anything else is worthless to me. If you're into fighting games, it's especially bad since there are literally no major gaming publications with any journalists that are good at them. Their opinions are always moronic. The only website I listen to on reviews is rpgamer.com, and that's because it's a genre-specific website that almost always agrees with my evaluations, give or take half a point.

 

[SixMachine]

It's not just a games problem to be honest. I've always told friends growing up as a tomboy sucked. I didn't want to grow up pretty or sexy, I wanted to be cool. But how many women are cool?

I was wondering what makes a video game woman cool to you?

Personally when I think of games that I played, coolness comes more from gameplay design with some aesthetic. Like when I think of my favorite king of fighters female, it would be Leona, because I like the way she fights, since she is rather flashy and I like her general playstyle. She also looks like she fits the Ikari Warrior theme like a glove, which is the military based team. But personality wise she doesn't say much, besides being batshit insane in Orochi mode, but I think her fighting style reflects her personality more than a cutscene (which I have to admit the KOF games do extremely well). I like Kat from Gravity Rush, because even though I'm not a girl, I can imagine it would be a lot of fun to have her power and zip around like that, and it also helps that her personality is likeable.

When people mention Chell or Faith. I honestly think they are boring. They don't really have any flair nor do they have anything that their personality has any substance. I like Faith's look but I don't think she is an example of a cool character.

 

[Trakdown]

I was wondering what makes a video game woman cool to you?

Personally when I think of games that I played, coolness comes more from gameplay design with some aesthetic. Like when I think of my favorite king of fighters female, it would be Leona, because I like the way she fights, since she is rather flashy and I like her general playstyle. She also looks like she fits the Ikari Warrior theme like a glove, which is the military based team. But personality wise she doesn't say much, besides being batshit insane in Orochi mode, but I think her fighting style reflects her personality more than a cutscene (which I have to admit the KOF games do extremely well). I like Kat from Gravity Rush, because even though I'm not a girl, I can imagine it would be a lot of fun to have her power and zip around like that, and it also helps that her personality is likeable.

When people mention Chell or Faith. I honestly think they are boring. They don't really have any flair nor do they have anything that their personality has any substance. I like Faith's look but I don't think she is an example of a cool character.

If you're taking them purely by their role as an avatar in the games, that's probably because they're mainly silent protags in a first person game. There's a tough balance there between allowing you to feel like you're in the game and immersed and still having them be a character- give them too much and they get in the way of things. A lot of the build up of Chell has been from supplementary materials and the fan base's interpretation of her.

 

[VanillaCakeIsBurning]

I always thought Touka from Utwarerumono was a pretty cool female character. It's not a game but the current discussion just brought this clip to mind.

 

[SixMachine]

If you're taking them purely by their role as an avatar in the games, that's probably because they're mainly silent protags in a first person game. There's a tough balance there between allowing you to feel like you're in the game and immersed and still having them be a character- give them too much and they get in the way of things. A lot of the build up of Chell has been from supplementary materials and the fan base's interpretation of her.

I have to admit, I singled them out because the are mentioned so much and even used as positive examples, even though it leads me to think, "they are just chicks in a tank top/ jump suit and a player surrogate, what's so cool?". When I was a kid, Samus worked wonders as a silent protagonist for me actually. Because when I was playing, I imagined Samus would do the same cool shit I accomplished like wall jumping (I can't believe I learned how to do that from the animals) or speed boosting through places. I was also really into Megaman, so I also thought she looked cool. I also liked her in Fusion, even though that game was more linear, because it seemed like in the dialog she was someone hardened enough and independent to do the badass things I accomplished in the previous games. Then a certain game came along, but no one wants to talk about that.....

 

[Devolution]

Yeah, women being "cool" is an interesting issue. My wife also grew up as a tomboy, and she is always jealous when there are "guy moments" in films. For example, when Spartacus promises to take care of his friend's family if one of them should die in...Spartacus, or when Magneto and Prof. X had their bromance moments in First Class. You just don't see that kind of stuff between women in media, it's always two women getting in touch with their feelings together or something like that. Being a shoulder to cry on, helping them become fashionable, and a lot of other things. I don't have anything against that, but even in movies designed "for women", I rarely see any kind of female empowerment. It's almost always some kind of reflection on an experience provided for the female by a male.

It's completely true. Or look at action movies. What we got?

 

[QisTopTier]

It's completely true. Or look at action movies. What we got?

The Resident Evil movies!

Spoiler

LOL

 

[Devolution]

The Resident Evil movies!

Spoiler

LOL

 

[Karsticles]

It's completely true. Or look at action movies. What we got?

Nothing as far as I know. But I also don't watch a lot of movies.

 

[QisTopTier]

Sadly I think cool female characters are stuck in anime/manga/games/books for now. I wonder if the film industry will ever be more open about it... They are the slowest progressing out of anything though :/

It's a little funny how Japan normally get's blasted for sexist stuff all the time in their work when they probably have the most empowered females in their media. I'll never get it.

Edit: I'm not referring to the stuff that goes on in the real world there though with this statement. That's a whole other subject

 

[ReeseHoward]

Victoria from RED is cool and attractive.

 

[Devolution]

Nothing as far as I know. But I also don't watch a lot of movies.

Charlie's Angels. ¬¬

 

[Giolon]

It's completely true. Or look at action movies. What we got?

Eowyn

 

[SixMachine]

The only western movie I can think of at the moment is The Quick and the Dead. Did anyone like Sharon Stone in the Quick and the Dead? I personally thought Russell Crowe and Gene Hackman were better characters but she wasn't too bad.

Edit: How the hell did I forget Ripley from Aliens?

 

[BurnOutBrighter]

Wait, he did? Was that in his letter, because I didn't see it.

Reading comprehension. I has it.

I am very thankful for having one of our titles being covered. I do understand what Jason and the rest of the discussions on the internet are saying for the most part. I am not sure if I can implement the critiques from him and others around the internet into my future artistic creations, but I will definitely keep in mind that these opinions are out there and affect people on a personal level. I feel that any form of media content faces death when it doesn’t receive attention at all. So, be it criticism or support, I am truly thankful for the people talking about Dragon’s Crown and the people discovering Vanillaware for the first time.

 

[Femmeworth]

Sadly I think cool female characters are stuck in anime/manga/games/books for now. I wonder if the film industry will ever be more open about it... They are the slowest progressing out of anything though :/

It's a little funny how Japan normally get's blasted for sexist stuff all the time in their work when they probably have the most empowered females in their media. I'll never get it.

Edit: I'm not referring to the stuff that goes on in the real world there though with this statement.

I'm going to need some examples.

 

[QisTopTier]

I'm going to need some examples.

Do you really need some or are you just asking to shoot stuff down? I'm a little shocked you need some being a member of this forum. If you want to respond seriously I'll take the time to dig a bunch of stuff up.

Spoiler

I have two in my Avatar already. Though the first character starts off timid and weak, after events happen to her she becomes strong with a goal she strives for.

 

[Riposte]

Edit: How the hell did I forget Ripley from Aliens?

Quite a few female action heroes we have in games probably owe something to her. Aliens is one of those movies which was very influential on videogame themes.

I'm going to need some examples.

You are a Fire Emblem fan, no?

 

[Femmeworth]

Do you really need some or are you just asking to shoot stuff down? I'm a little shocked you need some being a member of this forum. If you want to respond seriously I'll take the time to dig a bunch of stuff up.

A little of column A, a little of column B.

Edit: Your claim is kind of big.

You are a Fire Emblem fan, no?

Not a huge fan. Only completed Fire Emblem (Blazing Sword) and Path of Radiance.

 

[Devolution]

The only western movie I can think of at the moment is The Quick and the Dead. Did anyone like Sharon Stone in the Quick and the Dead? I personally thought Russell Crowe and Gene Hackman were better characters but she wasn't too bad.

Edit: How the hell did I forget Ripley from Aliens?

Ripley from Aliens is great. La Femme Nikita, Leeloo from Fifth Element, Mulan, The Bride from Kill Bill, Hanna, G.I. Jane but that's after racking my brain and not all of those are "cool" just strong protags.

 

[Karsticles]

There are a number of "cool" females in media, but I was talking about bonding between multiple "cool" females. You know, like if Storm and Phoenix had a moment of awesomeness together where they were like "I got this". That's very rare between women, but very common among men.

Charlie's Angels. ¬¬

Oh, you know what almost has one? The Walking Dead, between Andrea and Michome (sp?). They survive a whole winter together, so they must have done a lot of badass stuff. It's just that all that stuff happened between seasons 2 and 3, and when season 3 starts they get captured by a bunch of men and split up because Andrea is an idiot...lol.

Ripley from Aliens is great. La Femme Nikita, Leeloo from Fifth Element, Mulan, The Bride from Kill Bill, Hanna, G.I. Jane but that's after racking my brain and not all of those are "cool" just strong protags.

Who is Hanna?

 

[abadguy]

So developers shouldn't listen to players about game issues? Naughty Dog shouldn't listen to GAF's problems with the aiming controls in Uncharted 3? Developers shouldn't care about QA's reports of bugs? Writers shouldn't listen to editors?

I really can't understand why people have such a problem with this particular type of criticism, yet 90 % of all threads on GAF is about people criticizing a specific game and its failings.

An artist should NEVER listen to idiots like Schreier at any time. I hope that Kamitami ignores people like this and continues designing characters the way he wants to.

 

[Devolution]

There are a number of "cool" females in media, but I was talking about bonding between multiple "cool" females. You know, like if Storm and Phoenix had a moment of awesomeness together where they were like "I got this". That's very rare between women, but very common among men.

Oh, you know what almost has one? The Walking Dead, between Andrea and Michome (sp?). They survive a whole winter together, so they must have done a lot of badass stuff. It's just that all that stuff happened between seasons 2 and 3, and when season 3 starts they get captured by a bunch of men and split up because Andrea is an idiot...lol.

I blame a couple things. A woman is usually a token character especially on some heroic team. Then there's the stereotype we don't make good team mates because we're bitchy or constantly competing.

Who is Hanna?

Both the protag and antagonist were strong capable women (one was even a girl).

 

[Karsticles]

I blame a couple things. A woman is usually a token character especially on some heroic team. Then there's the stereotype we don't make good team mates because we're bitchy or constantly competing.

I don't think the competition aspect is a problem, because men are portrayed as being able to compete while also forming a bond over that competition. You come to respect your enemy, etc. That's never really done with women, though.

Both the protag and antagonist were strong capable women (one was even a girl).

Is it a good movie? Like, for someone who hates almost everything in film these days...

 

[SixMachine]

There are a number of "cool" females in media, but I was talking about bonding between multiple "cool" females. You know, like if Storm and Phoenix had a moment of awesomeness together where they were like "I got this". That's very rare between women, but very common among men.


Who is Hanna?

Wait is she talking about hanna from Fear Effect? That game actually was pretty awesome because it was like survival horror with loads of death cutscenes (pretty cheap deaths honestly because some just blindside you). She seemed like a straight arrow and serious business in the first one but in Fear Effect 2 (it's a prequel) they added Raine to the cast and they were lesbians and honestly hammed up the T&A (she did dress up as a brothel worker to infiltrate a place and she did flash a dude so Zeke could sneak up and snap his neck so there was still plenty of that in the first game). Though you could say there was female bonding in the second game...

Not a character I call progressive though.

edit: NVM it's a movie.

 

[Devolution]

Is it a good movie? Like, for someone who hates almost everything in film these days...

It's an interesting play on Little Red Riding Hood and the soundtrack is by the Chemical Brothers.

 

[Karsticles]

It's an interesting play on Little Red Riding Hood and the soundtrack is by the Chemical Brothers.

I don't know anything about bands, haha. I wiki'd it and saw that it has a fairy tale motif. I'll keep it in mind, since fairy tale stuff is almost always at least tolerable for me.

 

[QisTopTier]

A little of column A, a little of column B.

I'm tired and heading to bed soon, but http://wiki.puella-magi.net/Homura_Akemi from Madoka is a decent example.

Some ArcSys characters off the top of my head are

Jam, I-no, Milla Rage from Guilty Gear

Rachel Alucard, Kokonoe(though she's not playable she's a scientist that has a pretty solid impact on the story and calls the shots for one/two of the characters), and Noel in the newest Blazblue game

I'll PM you or post more examples of stuff tomorrow if you'd like.

It's a really big claim, but outside of maybe the novel space I'm pretty sure it holds some solid ground.

 

[Weltall Zero]

I don't know what I find most mind-boggling of all:
1) That an apology for that light-hearted joke was needed at all. If Jason Schreirer felt so offended, isn't it him that's being homophobic? Further, it was he who offended Kamitani in the first place!
2) That Kamitani is so amazingly thoughtful in this response, hitting all the right notes and confirming what most of its supporters have been suspecting up until now. I admit I didn't know much about him up to now other than him being responsible (in part or in full) of some of my most beloved games of all time (like the D&D arcades and Odin Sphere), but reading his response was almost shocking in how reasonable and thoughtful he was. Admiration towards him increased 200%.
3) That this Schreirer guy STILL tries to save face by prefacing (and burying down the page) Kamitani's letter beneath yet another salvo of crap including a carefully edited and looped gif of the Sorceress. I will make a mental note of his name in my personal "idiots" list.

Edit: Oh wait, I didn't realize he posts here (changes nothing).

 

[K.Sabot]

Hit Girl was pretty Bad Ass


I slay me.

 

[QisTopTier]

Hit Girl was pretty Bad Ass


I slay me.

I agree she was my favorite character in that movie

 

[Weltall Zero]

Yet people are being incredibly silencing and oppositional against this particular criticism (just look at the amount of posts in now TWO threads), whereas the vast majority of different criticisms in other threads is never subjected to this large a reaction.

There is a difference between "I don't like it" and "it should not exist". One is criticism, the other is a call for censorship.

To emphasize the point: I don't like the Sorceress' design (or rather, her sexually exaggerated features, the rest of the design is cool) even if I do understand the rationale behind it (as explained by Kamitani) and would fight to defend its right to exist.

 

[SixMachine]

There are a number of "cool" females in media, but I was talking about bonding between multiple "cool" females. You know, like if Storm and Phoenix had a moment of awesomeness together where they were like "I got this". That's very rare between women, but very common among men.

I got one for you. I can't believe I didn't think of it until this moment, but back in the day, I found Lucy Lawless pretty cool. Xena the Warrior Princess was on every day after school after Hercules. Xena did have character development with Gabriel. Thinking back, Hercules was campier show than Xena.

Lucy Lawless actually still looks good today and I only watched the first season of Spartacus but I did like how she acted and the guy from the Mummy who played Batiatus.

 

[Weltall Zero]

Leigh Alexander linked an article that once again makes me think we're on the same page. I'm not entirely sure.

http://www.unwinnable.com/2013/04/26/tits-or-gtfo/

Amazing article, I agree with it 100%. In our efforts to stop fictional ideals from alienating real-world women, we often alienate women who actually match those proportions. It's not the first time I've heard a woman (in person, even) feeling self-conscious about being well endowed, not because the fact per se, but because of the assumptions people and society make based on her appearance. Worse, it's not an issue men at large or even some women would understand or identify with easily at first, which often leads to accusation of whinning or even subtle boasting (when the fact remains that not ever being able to freely be yourself in public, let alone be proud of it, is psychologically crushing).

 

[shinra-bansho]

So I read through most of the thread.

Why exactly is it so hard for game "journalists," to admit to a mistake or fault? Instead, we get self-aggrandizing claims of fighting for the greater good and for the betterment of us all.

Sure, the gaming industry seems to have many issues with women. I don't see why those issues are being conflated with the overtly exaggerated artwork of the characters in this game.

There doesn't, to me, appear to be anything inherently "sexist" or "misogynist" about either the art of the Sorceress when viewed in the wider context of the art of the game as a whole. Nor is there anything inherently more sexist about Dragon's Crown than a cavalcade of potential examples that one could draw from. (Although, I'm not going to speak for women who could potentially find it offensive.)

If anything the game doesn't really conform to the typical gamer sensibilities with regard to sex appeal - although I won't pretend to speak for straight men here either. I just don't see anything specifically about Dragon's Crown that should be denigrated and eliminated from the industry.

All of this nonsense could have seemingly been avoided by a simple:
"I retract the story and the insults towards Kamitani. When viewed in a broader context, Kamitani's art and Dragon's Crown isn't the best example to use to illustrate problems in the industry. But there are issues, and they are worth exploring, and I intend to do so in future articles."

Yes, there seem to be abundant issues in the game industry with regard to women and minorities of all nature; so why not write something of value that examines some of those issues in depth?