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[Corgi]

https://news.vice.com/article/the-g...g-on-electric-cars?utm_source=vicenewstwitter

For once, Georgia ranks among the top states in America for something other than poverty, corruption, or miserable traffic.

Don't worry, they're fixing that.

A generous state tax break has helped make Georgia the number two state for electric vehicles, and made Atlanta the top market for the compact Nissan Leaf. Both the Leaf and the higher-end Tesla sedans are now common sights in and around metro Atlanta, where more than 10,500 are registered.

But this year, Georgia lawmakers needed to raise nearly $1 billion to patch up crumbling roads, highways, and bridges. So they are pulling the plug on that $5,000 tax credit — a move budget analysts say will contribute $66 million to the state's coffers in 2016 and nearly $190 million by 2020.

But it gets worse for electric vehicle (EV) boosters. Legislators are adding a $200-a-year annual fee for owners to offset the loss of gasoline taxes that drivers would otherwise pay to maintain roads.

Cohen and other EV advocates said their cause was undercut by the very generosity of the subsidy, particularly in the lease market. The state credit — coupled with up to $7,500 in federal incentives — means a roughly $30,000 Leaf can be leased for as little as $100 a month — with no need to buy gasoline. So critics argued that the tax break amounted to giving free cars to Atlanta yuppies.

"You heard it from more than one representative, which meant someone was going around saying this is nothing but a free car," Don Francis, executive director of Clean Cities Georgia, told VICE News.

"One of the arguments I've heard in the Capitol was we were giving these tax credit to rich folks and taking it away from farmers in south Georgia," Francis added. "My argument is the people you're hurting are the people who can afford it because of the tax credit, and will now not be able to afford it."
...

Francis argued that subsidizing electric vehicles actually brings more money into state coffers, since most gasoline comes from other states. The money an electric-vehicle driver doesn't spend on fuel then gets spent around town, where it's subject to state and local taxes, "rather than send it down the pipelines to Louisiana or Texas," he said.

more in the link.

yeah the incentives were ridiculous and was why every person with half a brain and a garage has a Leaf in atlanta... but $200 annual fee to drive a EV lol.

 

[giga]

I can understand killing the unsustainable tax credit, but wow a fee for not paying gas taxes?

 

[CrocMother]

I can understand killing the unsustainable tax credit, but wow a fee for not paying gas taxes?

The gas powered automobile is literally ingrained into the functioning of the United States, from the laws to the design of our cities (and formerly our workforce).

 

[spookyfish]

You could see this coming, unfortunately. Many of the West Coast municipalities, where EV/Hybrid vehicle adoption was really high, either talked about or did this years ago.

You can't "cheat" city hall. It's going to get its money one way or another.

 

[baggagelizard]

eh, our infrastructure is really not good, so I can understand it. Now.. if that money actually goes into repairing the infrastructure is the question..

 

[gcubed]

I don't think it's crazy. Gas taxes are partly for infrastructure, you are using the infrastructure but not paying upkeep.

There is a better alternative though. Adjust gas taxes and pay by use once a year on a renewal.

 

[Paskil]

This sucks, but at the very least, it isn't surprising they killed off the state tax break. In terms of the yearly tax, eh, if you can afford an electric car, you can afford a tax. I think there are other ways to get the needed money, but that's just me. And yes, regarding the infrastructure. Gas tax mainly pays for that. If you use the roads and other public utilities, you should pay for them.

 

[giga]

I don't think it's crazy. Gas taxes are partly for infrastructure, you are using the infrastructure but not paying upkeep.

There is a better alternative though. Adjust gas taxes and pay by use once a year on a renewal.

The problem is that this fee doesn't seem to be based on usage. It's just a straight $200, even if you only drive less than 50 miles a month.

 

[oxrock]

Death and taxes

 

[djplaeskool]

This state is desperate for money to keep working on infrastructure because none of the proposed SPLOST initiatives or tax raises can ever pass public muster.
This is a scummy way to get that done.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

"Affordable transportation for middle class families is destroying the economy."

That is an actual thing that happened.

There has to be a way to pay for infrastructure that doesn't presuppose an indefinite reliance on oil, isn't there?

The problem is that this fee doesn't seem to be based on usage. It's just a straight $200, even if you only drive less than 50 miles a month.

To be fair, $200 is the equivalent of filling up the tank 5-6x on my Optima. It's not exactly a ball-busting tax. Since Atlanta is such a wide-open sprawl with minimal public transportation options, I imagine the average driver statewide clocks in far more than 50 miles a month.

 

[TheAbsolution]

"Affordable transportation for middle class families is destroying the economy."

That is an actual thing that happened.

There has to be a way to pay for infrastructure that doesn't presuppose an indefinite reliance on oil, isn't there?

Well, yeah.
But whenever it's put up to a public vote here, it gets shot down.

 

[gcubed]

The problem is that this fee doesn't seem to be based on usage. It's just a straight $200, even if you only drive less than 50 miles a month.

Well yes, I think this is the wrong way to go about recouping the loss. They are missing money from more fuel efficient cars as well, so a flat fee is a dumb idea.

 

[ezrarh]

"Affordable transportation for middle class families is destroying the economy."

That is an actual thing that happened.

There has to be a way to pay for infrastructure that doesn't presuppose an indefinite reliance on oil, isn't there?

The only way to improve the situation is by building our towns and cities smarter and denser. Too much suburban sprawl - which is one of the things Georgia is particularly good at and not enough of a tax base to pay for it all in the long run. Particularly a tax base that doesn't want any taxes raised. The US as a whole can't afford to build out like it did in the 50s to 70s.

The annual fee kinda makes sense but it should be proportional to how much you drive.

 

[gutter_trash]

are there that many EV cars there to begin with?

 

[One-Shot]

I leased a Leaf last November and took advantage of the 5k. Was a great purchase, but yeah this new tax is BS. RINO government it seems.

are there that many EV cars there to begin with?

Umm yeah seconds highest state in the nation to have them.

 

[SuperPac]

Wow.

Way to be, Georgia. Way. to. be.

 

[TheAbsolution]

are there that many EV cars there to begin with?

Yeah, I see Leafs and other cars like that all the time.

 

[djplaeskool]

are there that many EV cars there to begin with?

The implementation of the credit caused a huge influx of purchases and a rash of charge station installations.
I see several daily on my commutes.

 

[gutter_trash]

tax and spend conservatives

 

[giga]

"Affordable transportation for middle class families is destroying the economy."

That is an actual thing that happened.

There has to be a way to pay for infrastructure that doesn't presuppose an indefinite reliance on oil, isn't there?



To be fair, $200 is the equivalent of filling up the tank 5-6x on my Optima. It's not exactly a ball-busting tax. Since Atlanta is such a wide-open sprawl with minimal public transportation options, I imagine the average driver statewide clocks in far more than 50 miles a month.

I think that's more reason to make it usage based, instead of a flat tax.

 

[Zhengi]

This makes sense. If EV drivers are going to be driving on the road, why shouldn't they pay for the upkeep of it?

Also, since when does Liberal GAF hate government for collecting taxes?

 

[diffusionx]

I can understand killing the unsustainable tax credit, but wow a fee for not paying gas taxes?

Gas taxes are a use tax. The people paying the tax are the ones using the roads that the taxes pay for (to a degree - roads are still heavily subsidized).

An electric car that doesn't use gas, well you can see the problem. EV owners are free riding. An annual fee actually does make some sense, although it should be based on mileage. That would create some logistical issues though?

 

[Guevara]

On the plus side, it is sort of a tax on the upper-middle class and rich so yay progressive taxation?

 

[One-Shot]

tax and spend conservatives

*Republicans

there is a difference.

On the plus side, it is sort of a tax on the upper-middle class and rich so yay progressive taxation?

Thanks, I am not that rich though hence why I took advantage of the deal when my last car went out.

 

[Tigress]

Since Atlanta is such a wide-open sprawl with minimal public transportation options, I imagine the average driver statewide clocks in far more than 50 miles a month.

You know what's sad, living in the Seattle area makes me miss MARTA. It was still a helluva lot better than the crap we have here (and our traffic is really showing it too). It's amazing what having a dedicated light rail line will do to make your mass transit that much more improved.

 

[dabig2]

On the plus side, it is sort of a tax on the upper-middle class and rich so yay progressive taxation?

The tax incentives allowed a lot more families outside the upper middle class and rich to get these cars. This is still a regressive measure that will also now slow down progress in the adoption of EV.

 

[One-Shot]

Come to think of it, if they make 400N a 3 lane highway with the money I might not mind as much lol.

Won't happen.

 

[Poodlestrike]

This is actually a lot less stupid than I thought it was going to be when I read the title. Not about ridiculous climate change deniers at all.

Honestly... the 200 flat fee isn't great, but making up money lost has to happen one way or another, and from what I've heard Georgia simply can't get people to approve more sensible measures. So, here we are.

 

[x-Lundz-x]

The solution is to make most roads toll roads is it not?

 

[Corgi]

The solution is to make most roads toll roads is it not?

thats how china is doing it! Pretty much every piece of highway is privately owned with toll prices often higher than gas prices

 

[johnny956]

"Affordable transportation for middle class families is destroying the economy."

That is an actual thing that happened.

There has to be a way to pay for infrastructure that doesn't presuppose an indefinite reliance on oil, isn't there?



To be fair, $200 is the equivalent of filling up the tank 5-6x on my Optima. It's not exactly a ball-busting tax. Since Atlanta is such a wide-open sprawl with minimal public transportation options, I imagine the average driver statewide clocks in far more than 50 miles a month.

The EV still requires charging which costs money though. So the fair comparison would be how much gas would equal $200 in gas taxes. That would be quite a bit I would imagine

 

[tokkun]

The tax incentives allowed a lot more families outside the upper middle class and rich to get these cars. This is still a regressive measure that will also now slow down progress in the adoption of EV.

Do you have any evidence to support the claim this is regressive? I have a hard time believing that EV ownership skews toward poor people.

 

[pompidu]

You could see this coming, unfortunately. Many of the West Coast municipalities, where EV/Hybrid vehicle adoption was really high, either talked about or did this years ago.

You can't "cheat" city hall. It's going to get its money one way or another.

this tax is retarded but this is what its all about.

 

[Loofy]

If its to fix crumbling roads give the fee to truck drivers.

 

[plagiarize]

I wouldn't give up my EV over a tax like this, but it's still disappointing with the one / two punch of taking away the incentive at the same time. So long as EV uptake holds relatively steady, then this is all well and good.

 

[jamesinclair]

The solution is to make most roads toll roads is it not?

No, its to charge by mileage used.

Simplest way is an odometer reading at the annual inspection

 

[plagiarize]

No, its to charge by mileage used.

Simplest way is an odometer reading at the annual inspection

Factor in vehicle weight, and we've got a deal.

 

[outunderthestars]

Makes sense to add some sort of road use tax.

 

[SummitAve]

But everybody has already been paying the tax and the infrastructure is still shit.

 

[One-Shot]

No, its to charge by mileage used.

Simplest way is an odometer reading at the annual inspection

There is no annual inspection.

Would feel real crappy to create one just to determine how much I should give the government for how much I drive.

 

[outunderthestars]

No, its to charge by mileage used.

Simplest way is an odometer reading at the annual inspection

But then you lose money from non-residents traveling through the state, as well as people keeping their vehicles registered in another state.

 

[Shake Appeal]

The personal automobile has to be one of the top five most destructive inventions in the history of man. Probably only topped by personal firearms and the atomic bomb.

 

[gcubed]

The EV still requires charging which costs money though. So the fair comparison would be how much gas would equal $200 in gas taxes. That would be quite a bit I would imagine

Someone in the comments of the article posted this, not sure if it's true. 26.5 cents a gallon is current tax, at $200 that would be ~23000 miles a year in a car that average 30mpg

 

[One-Shot]

The personal automobile has to be one of the top five most destructive inventions in the history of man. Probably only topped by personal firearms and the atomic bomb.

Wow what a dumb statement.

Society and life quality what not be anywhere near the high quality it is now without it.

 

[Peru]

Here in Norway, one of the smallest countries in Europe in population, we have the biggest market for electric cars in Europe, not relative but in actual sold units. Mostly because of benefits - decreased sales tax, access to public transport lanes, etc. Electric models are often the best sellers of a given month. Immediate benefit to local city climate and of course a quicker electrification of the overall car park benefits the environment in the long term.

Makes sense to add some sort of road use tax.

It doesn't, because the benefits environment friendly vehicles give the state are significant.

 

[Goro Majima]

I think legislators across the country need to figure out a way to collect taxes for roads while encouraging the purchase of EVs.

50 years from now we'll probably have self driving electric cars everywhere so some sort of solution will have to be arranged.

 

[Zhengi]

Wow what a dumb statement.

Society and life quality what not be anywhere near the high quality it is now without it.

What are you talking about? Don't you like traveling 20 miles a day on a horse?!?

 

[Somnid]

The solution is to make most roads toll roads is it not?

Or how about a yearly fee based on registered vehicle size, with higher rates for commercial vehicles?

 

[StillEdge]

Yeah, I see Leafs and other cars like that all the time.

I wonder what happens at the end of this year/next year. I remember when they announced the deals on leafs in Georgia you could actually get a two year lease paid for by all the breaks if you did it right. My lease ends next December and I'm really unsure of what my next car is. I know a lot of people planned to lowball the buyout price and then sell it but it looks like reselling electric cars at least the Nissan Leaf isn't really as hot as everyone once thought. I honestly would be fine paying that $200 fee especially if it's just once a year.