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[starchild excalibur]

BLM is also downplaying the sexism and just poking fun at being called a sexist. They mention Alien, Terminator, Kill Bill, and Star Wars 7 as movies with strong female leads to show that that's not why Ghostbusters is getting such a strong negative response. (Good points I think). So I was honestly predicting that they would get the same insults. I don't see why they wouldn't.

Alien, Terminator, and Kill Bill weren't rebooted with an originally male cast being recasted with females. And TFA most definitely had some people claiming that having Rey as the lead was SJW pandering, which is a criticism that Fury Road also got.

I don't think anyone saying that the sexist populous hating on the film literally hates any film with a female in it. If anything, they're saying that these people only get worked up when they're asked to re-imagine their beloved franchises as featuring leads they don't identify with (Ghostbusters would have gotten the same shit if it cast 4 black dudes - I'm certain of it).

edit: And the people who see themselves as the villain in Ghostbusters have deep-seated issues to deal with, as I'm sure not all Ghostbusters feel like he was supposed to be a representation of them. If you see yourself as a narcissist who believes your self-proclaimed intelligence hasn't gotten the shine it deserves, then that's your own problem. I don't think most Ghostbusters fans would see themselves as that character any more than they'd see themselves as Tetsuo in Akira.

double edit: I just realized that there's a Lothar and a Lothars in this thread? Are you guys brothers or something?

 

[BronsonLee]

TFA got a fuckload of MaRey Sue bullshit
Fury Road didn't get as much because it A: snuck up on people and B: got totally no-sold by everyone involved in the production

 

[MHWilliams]

Nope Ghostbusters 2 gets unfairly shit on. It's a good movie.

I love Ghostbusters 2, but it's not a great movie. It is a cash grab and you can tell that Murray's heart in particular isn't in it. The only person who looks like they're having fun in that film is Peter MacNicol. The starting premise - people in NY have somehow forgot a giant marshmallow dude and the apocalypse - makes no sense. It retreads most of the original film.

Here's Siskel and Ebert. It's surprising, because parts of that review is what people were saying about this film. Which is something I bought up before.

TFA got a fuckload of MaRey Sue bullshit
Fury Road didn't get as much because it A: snuck up on people and B: got totally no-sold by everyone involved in the production

Fury Road got shit too, because the focus was clearly Furiosa. It helped that George Miller was still at the helm though.

 

[Lothar]

And TFA most definitely had some people claiming that having Rey as the lead was SJW pandering, which is a criticism that Fury Road also got.

Isn't this limited to the cesspool on YouTube and Twitter since those films got almost unanimous praise by everyone?

I genuinely don't see how the fan reaction to Star Wars 7 and Ghostbusters can be that drastically different unless it's because one is an awesome remake and one is a remake that RLM describes.

 

[starchild excalibur]

Isn't this limited to the cesspool on YouTube and Twitter since those films got almost unanimous praise by everyone?

Sure. But it also helped that much of the story involved 1) a handing of the "torch" with many of the old characters reprising their parts - the very same storyline (and perhaps the only storyline) that many fans seem to ever want out of a story like this 2) leads that were more evenly split amongst gender lines and not all female a la GB 2016 and 3) a significantly larger base of viewers and supporters even if they're not die hard Star Wars fans.

It's harder for a cesspool of fans to torpedo a franchise that the entire world loves regardless of whether they browse reddit or not. And to be fair, I don't even think the cesspool torpedoed GB 2016. Even in a best case scenario, I don't believe it's a film that ever would have broken records.

 

[MrCunningham]

Here's Siskel and Ebert. It's surprising, because parts of that review is what people were saying about this film. Which is something I bought up before.

Siskel: "You know you have a home run going in if you make a decent picture, how cynical to not even try."

Gene Siskel wasn't wrong with that statement. Sure Ghostbusters II wasn't a bad movie as far as movie sequels go. It was middling at best. But the original Ghostbusters movie was one of the biggest hits of 1984, only being beat out by Eddie Murphy's Beverly Hills Cop. The Ghostbuster II script does have lazy writing all over it and that is a very cynical way to approach a follow up to such an iconic film.

I still haven't seen the new Ghostbusters movie yet. I don't have the time, but will make some for maybe next Friday or Saturday to go see it.

 

[phanphare]

Sure. But it also helped that much of the story involved 1) a handing of the "torch" with many of the old characters reprising their parts - the very same storyline (and perhaps the only storyline) that many fans seem to ever want out of a story like this 2) leads that were more evenly split amongst gender lines and not all female a la GB 2016 and 3) a significantly larger base of viewers and supporters even if they're not die hard Star Wars fans.

It's harder for a cesspool of fans to torpedo a franchise that the entire world loves regardless of whether they browse reddit or not. And to be fair, I don't even think the cesspool torpedoed GB 2016. Even in a best case scenario, I don't believe it's a film that ever would have broken records.

plus the prequel trilogy lowered the bar significantly. makes ghostbusters 2 look like the godfather 2 in comparison.

 

[MHWilliams]

Gene Siskel wasn't wrong with that statement. Sure Ghostbusters II wasn't a bad movie as far as movie sequels go. It was middling at best. But the original Ghostbusters movie was one of the biggest hits of 1984, only being beat out by Edie Murphy's Beverly Hills Cop. The Ghostbuster II script does have lazy writing all over it and that is a very cynical way to approach a follow up to such an iconic film.

Imagine the world where Murphy ended up in Ghostbusters like he was supposed to.

 

[Pendas]

I can't believe the shitposting gainst R̶L̶M̶ everyone because they didn't like Ghostbusters.
What is wrong with some of you.

ftfy

 

[starchild excalibur]

ftfy

Yeah, no you didn't.

Again, the same tired YouTube comment narrative of "I didn't like the film. I guess I'm about to be downvoted lol" only to find that same comment with dozens of upvotes.

 

[Lupercal]

Man that Siskel & Ebert review is pretty good, they would've burned this film I imagine.

 

[Sanjuro]

Imagine the world where Murphy ended up in Ghostbusters like he was supposed to.

Pluto Nash would have never happened.

 

[MrCunningham]

Imagine the world where Murphy ended up in Ghostbusters like he was supposed to.

Ghostbusters would've been a completely different movie if that were the case. Honestly there would've been a lot more focus on Murphy in the pre-release media because he would've been the biggest star in that cast (even bigger than Bill Murray) and Winston would've had a much bigger role in the movie. But it didn't happen because Eddy Murphy was pushing to be a "leading role" actor and being in an ensemble cast movie like Ghostbusters would have not helped him achieve that goal. Instead he went for Bevely Hills Cop, and well the box office numbers spoke for themselves:

I can't really say that Eddie Murphy made a bad decision by skipping out on Ghostbusters.

 

[BronsonLee]

In his defense, Beverly Hills Cop is a much better movie

 

[MHWilliams]

Ghostbusters would've been a completely different movie if that were the case. Honestly there would've been a lot more focus on Murphy in the per-release media because he would've been the biggest star in that cast (even bigger than Bill Murray) and Winston would've had a much bigger role in the movie. But it didn't happen because Eddy Murphy was pushing to be a "leading role" actor and being in an ensemble cast movie like Ghostbusters would have not helped him achieve that goal. Instead he went for Bevely Hills Cop, and well the box office numbers spoke for themselves:

I can't really say that Eddie Murphy made a bad decision by skipping out on Ghostbusters.

No, he made the right choice. I just like to imagine that film with Murphy's Winston front and center.

 

[Sanjuro]

Ghostbusters would've been a completely different movie if that were the case. Honestly there would've been a lot more focus on Murphy in the per-release media because he would've been the biggest star in that cast (even bigger than Bill Murray) and Winston would've had a much bigger role in the movie. But it didn't happen because Eddy Murphy was pushing to be a "leading role" actor and being in an ensemble cast movie like Ghostbusters would have not helped him achieve that goal. Instead he went for Bevely Hills Cop, and well the box office numbers spoke for themselves:

I can't really say that Eddie Murphy made a bad decision by skipping out on Ghostbusters.

That's unproven. Eddie Murphy was not a household name at the time.

 

[Sapiens]

Nope Ghostbusters 2 gets unfairly shit on. It's a good movie.

No. Every time someone shits on it, it is well deserved. It's terrible and lifeless. Garbage movie. The textbook bad sequel. The ultimate cash in.

 

[MrCunningham]

That's unproven. Eddie Murphy was not a household name at the time.

He was more of a household name than Bill Murray or Dan Aykroyd. He was already turning heads for his edgy comedy, and being in movies like 48 Hours and Trading Places (which he co-stared in with Dan Aykroyd). But in any case Murphy already did have a lot of star power behind his name and he did affect the direction of the movie heavily the moment that he declined.

 

[Sanjuro]

He was more of a household name than Bill Murray or Dan Aykroyd. He was already turning heads for his edgy comedy, and being in movies like 48 Hours and Trading Places (which he co-stared in with Dan Aykroyd).

Not quite. Murphy certainly wasn't a more of a name than Murray or Aykroyd. The timeline would have likely been altered as well. I believe Belushi was also still in the picture at this stage as well.

Murphy really picked up steam from 1981 onward. Beverly Hills Cop cemented his status.

 

[BronsonLee]

And it's all thanks to Vanity's music

 

[Ponn]

Ghostbusters would've been a completely different movie if that were the case. Honestly there would've been a lot more focus on Murphy in the per-release media because he would've been the biggest star in that cast (even bigger than Bill Murray) and Winston would've had a much bigger role in the movie. But it didn't happen because Eddy Murphy was pushing to be a "leading role" actor and being in an ensemble cast movie like Ghostbusters would have not helped him achieve that goal. Instead he went for Bevely Hills Cop, and well the box office numbers spoke for themselves:

I can't really say that Eddie Murphy made a bad decision by skipping out on Ghostbusters.

Goddamn look at that list. Sometimes I miss the 80's, so much iconic stuff coming out there.

 

[Lupercal]

Goddamn look at that list. Sometimes I miss the 80's, so much iconic stuff coming out there.

Those movies are all beter than 90% of the movies that will be released in 2016.

 

[Anung]

Those movies are all beter than 90% of the movies that will be released in 2016.

That's not a fair comparison. Amadeus is a masterpiece after all.

 

[MrCunningham]

Not quite. Murphy certainly wasn't a more of a name than Murray or Aykroyd. The timeline would have likely been altered as well. I believe Belushi was also still in the picture at this stage as well.

Murphy really picked up steam from 1981 onward. Beverly Hills Cop cemented his status.

It is an interesting scenario to look at. Because Bill Murray got the top billing in the original Ghostbusters when everything was said and done. Sure it was still an ensemble cast, but Murray dominated the first movie. Aykroyd was never leading role material, and was always teamed up with other more dominating actors (Belushi, Murphy). Ramis was a "behinds the scenes" guy, who was more known for directing movies than being in them. His most noteworthy thing out side of movies was being a cast member on SCTV (does anyone remember that?). Sigourney Weaver still did get a top billing for being a leading female role, she was still kind of hot off of Alien and became know for being a recognizable name in sci-fi. Ernie Hudson got shafted and his character was shuffled into the second act of the movie so the script could focus more on the three main comedians, and he just had no name recognition to headline anything.

If Eddie Murphy was in the original movie, I could see Murphy and Murray both sharing the spot light in the pre-release advertising, while the other cast gets pushed to the background. While I guess it might be debatable if Eddie Murphy was bigger than Bill Murray, he certainly had a lot more pull behind his name than Aykroyd or any of the other 1984 Ghostbusters cast as a leading role type. I think Eddie Murphy still would have been too big of a name for Columbia to just ignore.

 

[gamz]

http://birthmoviesdeath.com/2016/07/19/the-ghostbros-ruined-my-childhood

So to the Ghostbros: you've ruined my childhood. You represent all the forces that have soured the things that I love, the regressive elements that have colonized progressive and fun properties, characters and stories. You represent the triumph of mainstream, middle class white values over outsider thinking, interesting perspectives and system-challenging ideas. You are the death of my community.

 

[Ponn]

That's not a fair comparison. Amadeus is a masterpiece after all.

Police Academy alone makes the comparison unfair. Romancing the Stone just makes it a complete beat down.

 

[brandonh83]

http://birthmoviesdeath.com/2016/07/19/the-ghostbros-ruined-my-childhood

Hm, spot on article by Faraci IMO.

 

[gamz]

Hm, spot on article by Faraci IMO.

Yep. He nailed it again.

 

[Sanjuro]

It is an interesting scenario to look at. Because Bill Murray got the top billing in the original Ghostbusters when everything was said and done. Sure it was still an ensemble cast, but Murray dominated the first movie. Aykroyd was never leading role material, and was always teamed up with other more dominating actors (Belushi, Murphy). Ramis was a "behinds the scenes" guy, who was more known for directing movies than being in them. His most noteworthy thing out side of movies was being a cast member on SCTV (does anyone remember that?). Sigourney Weaver still did get a top billing for being a leading female role, she was still kind of hot of of Alien and became know for being a recognizable name in sci-fi. Ernie Hudson got shafted by having his character get pushed into the second act of the movie so the script could focus more on the three main comedians, and he just had no star power to headline anything.

If Eddie Murphy was in the original movie, I could see Murphy and Murray both sharing the spot light in the pre-release advertising, while the other cast gets pushed to the background. While I guess it might be debatable if Eddie Murphy was bigger than Bill Murray, he certainly had a lot more pull behind his name than Aykroyd or any of the other 1984 Ghostbusters cast as a leading role type. I could even see him sharing the spotlight with Bill Murray. I think Eddie Murphy still would have been too big of a name for Columbia to just ignore.

I'm always intrigued by the various scenarios as well.

Murphy is a bit of an oddity for an SNL alum. He generally is distant from his association, and is pretty much the only cast member who Lorne Michaels had zero impact in helming. He was also featured during the "worst" years in the program's history.

I'm still not sure how much pull he would have really had. All depends on when everything came together. Even John Candy was a part of this film, so the designation of which comedian would come out on stop has many twists and turns based on year and how the film's screenplay was adjusted. I'm always with the mindset that Ghostbusters surpassed all expectations due to its journey, and is a perfect lightning in a bottle scenario.

 

[Dalek]

http://birthmoviesdeath.com/2016/07/19/the-ghostbros-ruined-my-childhood

Amazing, spot-on piece. Also this comment in the comment section:

I tried to think of the most harmless thing. Something I loved from my childhood. Something that could never, ever possibly destory us, Ghostbusters fandom.

 

[Pie and Beans]

Enjoyed the RLM bullet point savagery at the end. Brutal.

Faraci embitters because the takings reality begins to set in. Surprise! In the entertainment business you have to appeal to the market rather than bang loads of pots and pans and tell it its wrong and also a monster that should disappear/kill itself.

Best to double down on actually suggesting with a straight face that the majority of all Ghostbusters superfans are racist misogynists though. He's just as big a baby in that article.

 

[Dalek]

Enjoyed the RLM bullet point savagery at the end. Brutal.

Faraci embitters because the takings reality begins to set in. Surprise! In the entertainment business you have to appeal to the market rather than bang loads of pots and pans and tell it its wrong and also a monster that should disappear/kill itself.

Best to double down on actually suggesting with a straight face that the majority of all Ghostbusters superfans are racist misogynists though. He's just as big a baby in that article.

 

[Ponn]

I'm always intrigued by the various scenarios as well.

Murphy is a bit of an oddity for an SNL alum. He generally is distant from his association, and is pretty much the only cast member who Lorne Michaels had zero impact in helming. He was also featured during the "worst" years in the program's history.

I'm still not sure how much pull he would have really had. All depends on when everything came together. Even John Candy was a part of this film, so the designation of which comedian would come out on stop has many twists and turns based on year and how the film's screenplay was adjusted. I'm always with the mindset that Ghostbusters surpassed all expectations due to its journey, and is a perfect lightning in a bottle scenario.

My first "encounter" or memory of Eddie Murphy was 48 hours. From there he started popping up everywhere but Beverly Hills Cop was his "I'm a huge star now" moment. Him being in SNL at that time was more of a trivia thing among friends "Hey did you know Eddie Murphy was also in SNL?' And then you would catch clips of him as Gumby on TV once in awhile. People also forget the impact of his stand up routines. Stand up was much bigger back then. I had a cassette tape of Delirious that we would play all day

 

[orthodoxy1095]

If it helps, I hate YouTube reviews in general

We know, we know. You only like Bobby's reviews.

 

[Sanjuro]

My first "encounter" or memory of Eddie Murphy was 48 hours. From there he started popping up everywhere but Beverly Hills Cop was his "I'm a huge star now" moment. Him being in SNL at that time was more of a trivia thing among friends "Hey did you know Eddie Murphy was also in SNL?' And then you would catch clips of him as Gumby on TV once in awhile. People also forget the impact of his stand up routines. Stand up was much bigger back then. I had a cassette tape of Delirious that we would play all day

God, I love 48 Hours.

 

[MisterHero]

I'm gonna see it again! I can't decide which of the 'busters I liked most

 

[Acorn]

No. They just spliced together the Papa John's ad with that scene with Leslie.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXZ5GCv3iAs

That pizza is good for only $12.

Papa John shit is the most disgustingly lazy product placement I've seen in a while.

 

[Messofanego]

We know, we know. You only like Bobby's reviews.

When Bobby gonna be on YouTube and clean up the review market there?!

 

[Toa TAK]

A Bobby video review would be something.

 

[gutter_trash]

Papa John shit is the most disgustingly lazy product placement I've seen in a while.

I will never forgive Papa John for shitting on Obamacare

 

[MrCunningham]

I'm always intrigued by the various scenarios as well.

Murphy is a bit of an oddity for an SNL alum. He generally is distant from his association, and is pretty much the only cast member who Lorne Michaels had zero impact in helming. He was also featured during the "worst" years in the program's history.

I'm still not sure how much pull he would have really had. All depends on when everything came together. Even John Candy was a part of this film, so the designation of which comedian would come out on stop has many twists and turns based on year and how the film's screenplay was adjusted. I'm always with the mindset that Ghostbusters surpassed all expectations due to its journey, and is a perfect lightning in a bottle scenario.

You have to ask this question, did people go to Beverly Hill's Cop in droves for the premise or to see Eddie Murphy do some ad-libbed comedy in a movie where he is the staring role? When you look at the original pre-release movie poster, you can quite clearly see that Paramount was banking heavily on Murphy as being the major pull for this movie:

Not only is Eddie up front and center, but the blurb above his head reads "Eddie Murphy is a Detroit cop on vacation in Beverly Hills" . It doesn't say Axel Foley. To me that says that the studio was banking on the charisma of the actor to put people in seats while the premise of the movie was secondary to its main star.

Here is the theatrical poster for the 1984 Ghostbusters:

The three top billings are Bill Murray (because he was the biggest), Dan Aykroyd (who never gets first billing and always gets second billing to whoever he's teamed up with) and Sigourney Weaver who gets third billing for being the top female role in the movie. If Eddie Murphy was in this, I could easily see it being: Bill Murray, Eddie Murphy, Sigourney Weaver, with Aykroyd being booted off in favor of Murphy, but Murray still getting the top credit.

But like you said, Ghostbusters is a movie that could have played out in so many different possibilities. The cast could have been Belushi, Candy, Murphy and Aykroyd in an alternate universe. Or a mixed combination of any of those actors.

Personally I think both Eddie Murphy and Bill Murray were anomalies in the SNL roster. Eddie Murphy really just used SNL as a stepping stone to further his careen in stand-up and as a Hollywood actor. He became too big for SNL. Bill Murray on the other hand was just "too cool for SNL". His mentality towards the show was very passé and he just phased himself out of that scene the moment that he started to become big in movies.

Goddamn look at that list. Sometimes I miss the 80's, so much iconic stuff coming out there.

I was off put myself when I realized how many iconic '80s movies came out of 1984. Goddamn.

 

[pompidu]

http://birthmoviesdeath.com/2016/07/19/the-ghostbros-ruined-my-childhood

The vocal minority who shits on this movie because "women" can easily be tuned out. He choose to engage himself in all that nonsense. Is the outrage annoying? Yes. Is it a very small sect of the population? Absolutely. People liked what the saw and went to see it. The box office shows that. People like him choose to focus on this very small crowd giving it more attention. Stop writing dumb articles and let this shit pass, instead of fanning the fires.

Now the Leslie Twitter shit is disgusting, vile.

 

[Scientist Supreme!]

The vocal minority who shits on this movie because "women" can easily be tuned out. He choose to engage himself in all that nonsense. Is the outrage annoying? Yes. Is it a very small sect of the population? Absolutely. People liked what the saw and went to see it. The box office shows that. People like him choose to focus on this very small crowd giving it more attention. Stop writing dumb articles and let this shit pass, instead of fanning the fires.

Now the Leslie Twitter shit is disgusting, vile.

Ignoring that these people are sizable and ingrained part of "geek culture" doesn't help it to get better. What's happening to Leslie Jones is exactly what happens when don't call theses people out. For Leslie and other minorities, it not easy to "tune out".

 

[Zabka]

Devin Faraci's a bully and an opportunist. I'm surprised anyone takes him seriously.

 

[pompidu]

Ignoring that these people are sizable and ingrained part of "geek culture" doesn't help it to get better. What's happening to Leslie Jones is exactly what happens when don't call theses people out. For Leslie and other minorities, it not easy to "tune out".

This article will do nothing to address any of those issues, no one who is raging is gonna spend a second on a site no one's heard off. If that wasn't his idea, and it's more of a , jot shit down cause I'm thinking I guess the article is OK for people who want to read him. The people who are losing their shit probably weren't even alive when Ghostbusters came out, a lot found a negative trend that had a black woman attached and went ham. If he's trying to break some 4th wall shit, he should be less condescending. There is many reasons why people didn't want this movie to be made, at least in its current incarnation, that has nothing to do with women.

 

[Dai101]

I love Ghostbusters 2, but it's not a great movie. It is a cash grab and you can tell that Murray's heart in particular isn't in it. The only person who looks like they're having fun in that film is Peter MacNicol. The starting premise - people in NY have somehow forgot a giant marshmallow dude and the apocalypse - makes no sense. It retreads most of the original film.

Here's Siskel and Ebert. It's surprising, because parts of that review is what people were saying about this film. Which is something I bought up before.

Is exactly the same as the first movie! But bad.

Honest Trailers 2016

 

[Inferno313]

Devin Faraci's a bully and an opportunist. I'm surprised anyone takes him seriously.

He's definitely an ass at times, and I disagree with him a lot on some of his thoughts about fandom in the past, but he's a damn good writer and a damn good critic. His podcast, The Canon, is pretty excellent.

 

[orthodoxy1095]

Devin Faraci's a bully and an opportunist. I'm surprised anyone takes him seriously.

His movie critique is often really spot on. I love some of his writing.

Other times, he goes for lowbrow clickbait nonsense or misses out on the opportunity to do a proper critique because of some social issues that he acts like an ass about, doing everything a disservice.

 

[Scientist Supreme!]

This article will do nothing to address any of those issues, no one who is raging is gonna spend a second on a site no one's heard off. If that wasn't his idea, and it's more of a , jot shit down cause I'm thinking I guess the article is OK for people who want to read him. The people who are losing their shit probably weren't even alive when Ghostbusters came out, a lot found a negative trend that had a black woman attached and went ham. If he's trying to break some 4th wall shit, he should be less condescending. There is many reasons why people didn't want this movie to be made, at least in its current incarnation, that has nothing to do with women.

It doesn't need to, it wasn't written for the purpose.
Like that little quote from article, it's his personal take on this whole thing. Its valuable to some and something that's easily avoidable. Seems to me you just don't like this conversation happening at all.

 

[brandonh83]

I'm not always in the same boat with Faraci, but I agree with the gist of his article; just basically that some people are doing more damage, or seemingly trying whether they realize it or not, to the Ghostbusters name than any new film could do, whether good or bad. The hate campaign and insults paints so many fans as nothing but uninformed children and it's not a good look in general.

I don't think the brand is going to be ruined by these people, but they're sure not helping things. It's difficult enough to reboot something beloved and after seeing the film I felt the filmmakers gave it a legitimate effort regardless of how much it worked or didn't work for some. It's not perfect but most of it worked for me and it had a lot of color and energy. And was far from soulless, which is a word that people love to associate with these things.