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Graphical Fidelity I Expect This Gen

01011001

Member
I don’t know if someone corrected you but Ninite is not really about STATIC geometry but rather non-deformable geometry. That’s why the second trailer/presentation was with a giant with super detailed geometry but it was “weld” to his body like an armor, it was moving and animated but non-deformable. So you are right in a sense … it’s limited for now.

I thought it was only static, but ok, still many objects will not be able to use it, which can result in a weird mismatch when pushed to the extremes.
 

Lethal01

Member
Hmmm. I don't exactly agree...

It will obviously be FAR closer than PS4 could ever get. But the people who make these trailers don't spend minutes or hours on each frame just for the fun of it. The things that 10x more power and 100x more time would give you just won't be there. I think it's better to base expectations on things that at least need to run in real-time on existing hardware.

But again, it's a matter of what you consider "close" some people think TLOU2 is super close. I'm just going to enjoy the improvement. I can say with 100% certainty that when naughty dog shows of their next game people will be saying "this looks like CG" since it was said for Uncharted 4 and TLOU2.

Anyway, I'm just gonna post neat graphics.

Here is something running in REALTIME with path tracing like that trailer..... on 4 3090+ level cards strapped together.

I thought it was only static, but ok, still many objects will not be able to use it, which can result in a weird mismatch when pushed to the extremes.
I don’t know if someone corrected you but Ninite is not really about STATIC geometry but rather non-deformable geometry. That’s why the second trailer/presentation was with a giant with super detailed geometry but it was “weld” to his body like an armor, it was moving and animated but non-deformable. So you are right in a sense … it’s limited for now.

Yeah, it's pretty limited, but MANY games are 90% non deformable geometry whether we like it or not so it's still got tons of uses. You could use it for armor and weapons on top of the obvious robots. You could have a character who wears an amulet that's a miniature version of the city you are in or something crazy like that. and of course the obvious robots. I don't think it will be any bigger of a mismatch than we already have in the majority of games.
 

01011001

Member
Yeah, it's pretty limited, but MANY games are 90% non deformable geometry whether we like it or not so it's still got tons of uses. You could use it for armor and weapons on top of the obvious robots. You could have a character who wears an amulet that's a miniature version of the city you are in or something crazy like that. and of course the obvious robots. I don't think it will be any bigger of a mismatch than we already have in the majority of games.

this will all come down to how well it actually runs on console as well. the concept sounds promising, but we'll see.
 
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GymWolf

Gold Member
No games have yet to rival rdr2 for me. I mean, demons souls, ratchet and gotg looks damn good on a technical level but still won't change my mind about rdr2 being the best looking game out there, still.

So I expect something better than rdr2 for me, I'm waiting ...
Then you are waiting for gta6 because nobody except rockstar is gonna beat what makes rdr2 graphic special.
 

Keihart

Member
That was actually six months ago, and I was playing Abby's shitty chapters. I posted screenshots of my playthrough in that very thread.






Playing through Ellie's chapters after the 60 fps patch, and they look stunning. I think Abby's chapters were the ones that ND had to throw out and redo because they focus tested so bad. Especially Day 2. Day 3 in the island with Abby looks great. But again, the Santa Barbara level looks rough. The game is very schizo.
Abby's building descent and the hospital that ends with the Rat king are probably some of the best of the game to me, i prefer most of Ellie's chapters but those are is kind of special, TLoU goes full surivival horror during those and i like it.
 

xPikYx

Member
Playing through TLOU2 made me really appreciate the amount of detail ND put into the game despite the fact they were limited by the shit jaguar CPUs. The breaking of glass in windows and especially in cars made it feel a lot more destructible than other games. Replaying the game with the SMG, you get to appreciate the sound design of bullets hitting and ricochet different surfaces. If you get a chance, enable unlimited ammo cheats and just shoot the SMG at random things. The sound design is incredible and various smaller items like monitors react to getting hit.

We all know how much effort went into different animations and all of this leads me to believe they will be one of the first studios to push destruction next gen. Similar to what we saw in this demo a couple of weeks ago.

This game is some crazy shit, would be great if true.

Speaking of diminishing return,we are far from this, it is just that new consoles are held back from old ones,plus these new consoles are too weak for a proper jump if you want to push 4k at all cost and do some ray tracing, to see a proper jump we needed at least 20tflops consoles this time while we had only half of it, not enough.
 

T0minator

Member
Playing through TLOU2 made me really appreciate the amount of detail ND put into the game despite the fact they were limited by the shit jaguar CPUs. The breaking of glass in windows and especially in cars made it feel a lot more destructible than other games. Replaying the game with the SMG, you get to appreciate the sound design of bullets hitting and ricochet different surfaces. If you get a chance, enable unlimited ammo cheats and just shoot the SMG at random things. The sound design is incredible and various smaller items like monitors react to getting hit.

We all know how much effort went into different animations and all of this leads me to believe they will be one of the first studios to push destruction next gen. Similar to what we saw in this demo a couple of weeks ago.

I completely agree, that PS5 patch for TLOU2 isnt discussed enough on how amazing this game looks at 60fps.
The water effects moves realistically
The clothes get dirty so realistically
The gun animations are top notch
The facial expressions DURING gameplay
The animations are above anything else in game.

It's really amazing
 
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GymWolf

Gold Member
Might not even be gta6, rdr2 is a special package to me. The graphics, the art, the nature, the setting. It hit all the right cords for me for the visuals.
I was more talking about the absurd amount of micro details and interaction with world, that's what makes the overall graphic better than most open world games.

If we talk raw graphic tho, rdr2 is probably not the king anymore (unless you use an highly modded pc version)

I don't give 2 fucks about the western genre (probably never watched a serious western movie in my life except bone tomahakw) and it was still my goty (in pair with gow) and the world feeling alive was one of the major reasons.
 
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I completely agree, that PS5 patch for TLOU2 isnt discussed enough on how amazing this game looks at 60fps.
The water effects moves realistically
The clothes get dirty so realistically
The gun animations are top notch
The facial expressions DURING gameplay
The animations are above anything else in game.

It's really amazing
There’s a lot of issues with textures failing to load which brings it down for me. Yes it’s copied to the internal drive.
 

GymWolf

Gold Member
This is last gen running in real time on ps4 slim.... (yes, my ps4 slim images). Would be interesting to see 4k ps5 dc comparison
Death Stranding got the best looking characters ever. Tlou2 and uncharted 4 got the best everything else. Although DS environments can look incredible too



not sure about best models, i think we are tricked into thinking this because they are famous actors and we have a reference about how they look in real life





 

rofif

Gold Member
not sure about best models, i think we are tricked into thinking this because they are famous actors and we have a reference about how they look in real life





I didn't knew die hardman actor before playing the game.
But all examples you posted are just as excellent.

Btw. When gears of war came out, I was fully convinced it is the best detailed face model I've ever seen. I could not imagine how it can get any better. lol

 
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SlimySnake

Member
This game is some crazy shit, would be great if true.

Speaking of diminishing return,we are far from this, it is just that new consoles are held back from old ones,plus these new consoles are too weak for a proper jump if you want to push 4k at all cost and do some ray tracing, to see a proper jump we needed at least 20tflops consoles this time while we had only half of it, not enough.
yeah, but by the time these next gen games finally arrive in holiday 2023, we should have the ps5 pro with 20 tflops. Though the pandemic may change their plans, but 3 years is how long it took for the PS4 Pro to come out.

Spiderman 2 is basically going to be the first true next gen game on ps5. and it will likely target 1440p 30 fps on ps5 and native 4k 30 fps on the pro.
 

Sosokrates

Founder of western console warring.
I dont know why people argue about "which game has da bezt gwaphics!"

Games do different things better and worse.

People cant seperate art style and theme preference over technical fact.
 
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T0minator

Member
I dont know why people argue about "which game has da bezt gwaphics!"

Games do different things better and worse.

People cant seperate art style and theme preference over technical fact.
It's the combination of both art and tech that makes da bezt gwaphics. Where devs allocate their resources matters. I've always been into animation. So what I perceive as the best are the ones that animate their worlds and characters the best. Run animations that are stiff hurt the look for me. I'm hoping this generation pushing animations and smooth transitions even further.
 

8BiTw0LF

Gold Member
3 modes should be standard across all games.

Quality mode: 1800p/40fps/120hz

Normal mode: 1440p/60fps

Performance: 1080p/120fps

+ add all the "DLSS" and RT features to all modes.
 
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Sosokrates

Founder of western console warring.
It's the combination of both art and tech that makes da bezt gwaphics. Where devs allocate their resources matters. I've always been into animation. So what I perceive as the best are the ones that animate their worlds and characters the best. Run animations that are stiff hurt the look for me. I'm hoping this generation pushing animations and smooth transitions even further.
No, artistic preference is something different to which game has the best graphics. Also what the environments are also plays a role, some environments just look better, like in real life, some people will prefer the look of the amazon rainforest over a city street and vice versa. Also time of day, amount of shadows, surface roughness etc all play a role.
Attention to detail also matters, its why GTA5 can look better then watch dogs 2, its because its rendered using more advanced technology its because more time has been spent crafting an element.

eg an artist spending a week making a cottage with PS4 with UE4, has a good chance of looking better then the same artist making a cottage in UE5 on a PS5 but in 1 day.
 
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No games have yet to rival rdr2 for me. I mean, demons souls, ratchet and gotg looks damn good on a technical level but still won't change my mind about rdr2 being the best looking game out there, still.

So I expect something better than rdr2 for me, I'm waiting ...
Cyberpunk on PC
 
I didn't knew die hardman actor before playing the game.
But all examples you posted are just as excellent.

Btw. When gears of war came out, I was fully convinced it is the best detailed face model I've ever seen. I could not imagine how it can get any better. lol

lol
 
I think this gen is in a tough spot technology wise, having to deal with the 4k standard. When we get 5x the gpu power next gen, or whenever, it will be much better suited to innovate. Unless 8k is really what’s needed to innovate fidelity wise.
 

GymWolf

Gold Member
It's the combination of both art and tech that makes da bezt gwaphics. Where devs allocate their resources matters. I've always been into animation. So what I perceive as the best are the ones that animate their worlds and characters the best. Run animations that are stiff hurt the look for me. I'm hoping this generation pushing animations and smooth transitions even further.
Yep, people running like they're shitting their pants has to go.
 
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rofif

Gold Member
Ive played that game on a 3080 Asus tuf, I know what it looks like.

Like I said, technical wise it's impressive but it's not doing anything for me. Still prefer rdr2 overall
Same here. I kinda liked the game actually as a story shooter. Was about as buggy as any new bethesda game... they just overpromised.

Some pics for reference from my playthrough:



Still. For me it looses with FF7 and tlou2 or Death Stranding and even uncharted 4 !

AND SOME screenshots for comparison to said games. All my screenshots. Some from ps4 slim







 

Lethal01

Member
Same here. I kinda liked the game actually as a story shooter. Was about as buggy as any new bethesda game... they just overpromised.

Some pics for reference from my playthrough:



Still. For me it looses with FF7 and tlou2 or Death Stranding and even uncharted 4 !

AND SOME screenshots for comparison to said games. All my screenshots. Some from ps4 slim








This thread is about graphical fidelity, not art or prefence though. What matters is how detailed and well lit things are.
 

rofif

Gold Member
This thread is about graphical fidelity, not art or prefence though. What matters is how detailed and well lit things are.
yeah. Technically ff7 drops out. uc4 also drops out because tlou2 came out.
But cp2077, death stranding and tlou2 totally stay
 

Lethal01

Member
yeah. Technically ff7 drops out. uc4 also drops out because tlou2 came out.
But cp2077, death stranding and tlou2 totally stay

Sounds right, if we were talking about pure visuals I'd go with Guilty Gear Strive, Breath of the WIld and FFVII Remake.
 

Drizzlehell

Member
I would have preferred if game devs focused more on physics and making the environments more interactive/destructible. I hate that we live in a time when graphics in videogames reached a point of near photo-realism but the models and other in-game props still clip through each other and act unnaturally due to broken physics and rag dolls.
 

RaduN

Member
This is last gen running in real time on ps4 slim.... (yes, my ps4 slim images). Would be interesting to see 4k ps5 dc comparison
Death Stranding got the best looking characters ever. Tlou2 and uncharted 4 got the best everything else. Although DS environments can look incredible too



That scene is the absolute pinnacle of in-game acting and model fidelity so far. And the complexity of the emotions expressed there... is just mind blowing.
We'll see what comes next.
 

Lysandros

Member
With the PS4 and Xbox One, the difference between 1.5TFLOPS and 1.8TFLOPS was often noticeable with lower resolutions, less visual FX, and lower framerates. However 7 years later, a 0.3 TFLOP difference is completely negligible and the 1.8 TFLOP delta between PS5 and Series X (which is an entire PS4) is mostly undistinguishable (from a visual standpoint). Hello Diminishing Returns!!
It was 1.31 TF vs 1.84 TF, a difference of 0.53 TF/40% between the original Xbox One and PS4. And 1.4 TF vs 1.84 TF, 0.44 TF/32% between the later S revision and PS4. With compute difference being only one part of the story. PS4 also had ~85% higher pixel fill rate, 125% more RAM bandwidth and much more ASYNC compute resources (2 ACEs vs 8 ACEs). This isn't remotely comparable to PS5/XSX which are nearly identical in capability with 18-22% differences favoring either machine depending on the metric. You are painting a misleading picture using wrong figures.
 
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GymWolf

Gold Member
No TLOU II is the king in GREAT animations.
Lol i thought it was strange calling out tlou2 for the animations...

I think rdr2 is on a very similar level while being fully open world, but i have a soft spot for the euphoria engine, if it was for me i will include it even on fucking tetris...
 
I would have preferred if game devs focused more on physics and making the environments more interactive/destructible. I hate that we live in a time when graphics in videogames reached a point of near photo-realism but the models and other in-game props still clip through each other and act unnaturally due to broken physics and rag dolls.
Clipping is horrible.
 
Just be happy console gamers are mostly out of the 30 fps ghetto for now.
There, I fixed it for you :)

The new consoles aren't powerful enough to keep 60fps and produce truly next-gen games. You'll see in the future, there's nothing really pushing this hardware to it's limits yet. We're still getting mostly cross-gen games and games that use old tech with tacked on RT.
 

Coolwhhip

Neophyte
There, I fixed it for you :)

The new consoles aren't powerful enough to keep 60fps and produce truly next-gen games. You'll see in the future, there's nothing really pushing this hardware to it's limits yet. We're still getting mostly cross-gen games and games that use old tech with tacked on RT.

Depends what you mean by pushing to the limits. If the limit is what we have now at 60 fps, then this is the limit for playable games.
 
The push for 60fps and even 120fps in some cases has made many current-gen games look like simple up-rezzed versions of Xbox One and PS4 games. The only time 60fps should be standard on consoles is for fast-paced FPS games and Sim-Racers, otherwise a locked 30fps with good motion blur like Forza Horizon 5 implements is completely fine. I still can't come up with a scenario for why 120fps is needed in any modern game.
 

DrAspirino

Banned
I don't think we will see the best looking games until someone comes up with a workaround/refinement for RT that significantly reduces its heavy load. I wonder if someone is going to come up with a system whereby just a handful of rays are drawn and AI completes the projections cast by those rays.
Something like this?



Not sure if it can be achieved in real-time though, given that it relies on AI.
 
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