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Honest Question: Do you believe Xbox Series could have been competitive this generation without gamepass?

Sosokrates

Report me if I continue to console war
Series is selling better cause Series S was in stock almost the whole time. Phil even said the S accounts for over half of the Series sales.
Most of those deals are for games years out that are going to remain multiplat. So you're expecting people to completely switch ecosystems, ditch their digital libraries, and sign up to a new $15/month subscription, instead of just paying the $60-70 for the game to stay where they are now? Now that's delusional. There will only be a significant change to xbox/gamepass if all these new publishers exclusively put the games in gamepass. Which doesn't sound like it's going to happen anytime soon. They're going to PC. They're going to Xbox sold separately. Some are staying mutliplat entirely.
It does matter which model sells the best, its the same platform.

What games are going to remain multiplat? Cod is the only one confirmed to be staying on playstation for 3yrs.

I expect People to buy the system which has the games they like from the devs they like.
Most gamers tend to play current stuff, theu want to play the latest sports games, Cod and GTA.
 
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It does matter which model sells the best, its the same platform.

What games are going to remain multiplat? Cod is the only one confirmed to be staying on playstation for 3yrs.

I expect People to buy the system which has the games they like from the devs they like.
Most gamers tend to play current stuff, theu want to play the latest sports games, Cod and GTA.
I could say Starfield is the only one confirmed to be exclusive. Maybe they confirmed Elder Scrolls? But it isn't like they're saying all the future games are exclusive either.
And most of the current people that buy CoD/GTA/Fifa/Madden will continue to buy the game. Thinking most of those people will do drastic change and sign up for a new monthly fee is ridiculous.
Hell EA Play pretty much proved that already.
 
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Lognor

Banned
Bro I hate to burst your bubble but Xbox, worldwide is in dead last, particularly with software sales (you know the thing that matters most) and is in a distant 3rd.

The fact this particular thread exists says it all...and as much as I like my Series X, I'm not going to go back and forth with someone who has clearly lost touch with reality.

KWPAFZx.gif
Bro, did I argue that Xbox wasn't in third place? I called you out on your nonsense and you've tried to pivot...unsuccessfully! We all know Xbox is in third. That is not news. Congratulations for finally discovering that, I guess?

You said publishers are not putting games on Xbox unless they get that Game Pass bag. I proved you wrong and now you tell me that Xbox is in third. LOL. Cool?

But is EA skipping Xbox with Harry Potter? No
Is the publisher of Caliisto Protocol skipping Xbox? No
IS EA skipping Xbox with Dead Space? No
Is Dead Island 2 skipping Xbox? No
Is RE4? No
ETc
etc
etc

You're wrong. Take the L
 
gamepass is not the end all be all. Because ur forgetting that Xbox gets almost all the same games as playstation. Its a better console. Its a better ecosystem with backwards compatibility, smart delivery etc. They aren't blocking crossplay. Has a lower barrier to entry with Series S

i would think Gamepass only makes up like 15% of what i play on Xbox. Unless ur hard pressed for more japanese focused games. Or specifically want a PS exclusive...i would see Xbox as the default console of choice for most ppl. Functionally, economically, ergonomically. Playstation is still playing catch up on many things.
 
Backwards compatibility got me buying all my third party games on Xbox during last gen, and then Gamepass got me to purchase Series X first instead of a PS5. I believe that without Gamepass Xbox would be doing much worse than it currently is because they have had a severe lack of must have games. There needs to be a solid reason to buy a console, whether it is a exclusive game you want to play, or price/value, or in the case of Xbox a service like Gamepass which gives access to so many great games at a low price.

I know of no less than five of my family/friends who have purchased an Xbox due to Gamepass for themselves or their children. The Series S is another reason they are doing well though. 3/5 of those family/friends bought the Series S due to price/value of that Gamepass/Series S combo
 

EverydayBeast

thinks Halo Infinite is a new graphical benchmark
You don’t need game pass, you aren’t able to play thousands of games at once the thought of treating video games like Netflix is crazy.
 

Sosokrates

Report me if I continue to console war
I could say Starfield is the only one confirmed to be exclusive. Maybe they confirmed Elder Scrolls? But it isn't like they're saying all the future games are exclusive either.
And most of the current people that buy CoD/GTA/Fifa/Madden will continue to buy the game. Thinking most of those people will do drastic change and sign up for a new monthly fee is ridiculous.
Hell EA Play pretty much proved that already.
Yeah and Sony is bringing it's games over to Xbox too....

If cod is on gamepass it makes sense that cod players will get seeing that they need live and it's a yearly franchise.

But thats beside the point Xbox will sell more because they will have way more good games and great hardware, case closed.
 
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johnjohn

Member
I personally wouldn't say that all of MS's 1P sucks: they do have some good games there. FH5 is a good game, Flight Sim is a good game (well, simulator), they have the Age of Empires series for RTS which are well-regarded and while it's not to a lot of people's tastes Sea of Thieves is a good game as well.

Really the problem with MS 1P is that they don't have a lot in terms of big games that are clearly appealing to the mainstream audiences. They barely have any 1P games that are industry-leading in some perceivable context (FH5 and Flight Sim are maybe the only ones that come close but are specifically relegated to open-world racers and flight simulators), and they don't have any 1P games with stories or characters that the majority clearly care about at the level of, say, stories or characters in films like Infinity War, X-Men, Batman, Top Gun, John Wick or shows like Breaking Bad, Cobra Kai, Stranger Things, Game of Thrones etc.

Sony has characters and stories/worlds at those levels. Nintendo does as well (though the stories in their games tend to be barebones). Microsoft doesn't have any. They USED to; Halo used to be at that level, but now look at it. Gears of War used to as well; it's better off than Halo ATM but the recent stories & characters clearly haven't been as invigorating to the masses as the original games were.

I think currently their best chance at building up such a property again is probably through Bethesda but the way Bethesda games tell their stories isn't conductive to the focused approach I think you need to provide the resonance and impact of stories & characters in the way Sony's big story games do, and the character & world aesthetic/design of Bethesda games aren't wholly unique in the way Nintendo's games are to stand out that way, either. That said, stuff like TES can have some complex lore and have strong writing elements there that could be used for some fantastical stories with more oomph and flair, maybe if another developer did some type of offshoot with it though.



At worst the Xbox division would've been spun off into its own company, which is what some shareholders wanted going back to 2014. Some funds from Microsoft, maybe MS owning a minority stake in the company, but otherwise it would've been independent.

In that timeline, you don't get GamePass but, IMHO you'd probably have gotten a more competitive Xbox in terms of going for exclusivity deals. You wouldn't have as much media blowback since now it'd be a genuinely smaller brand (no Daddy MS money to save them); I think the brand would've also been more or less completely rebooted. Maybe they'd of stayed making consoles, maybe not, but the PC push would've came regardless.

I also think the smaller acquisitions would've still happened, FWIW.



Quantity != Quality. Also how do you know how many 1P games Sony or Nintendo have in development, really? The Xbox leakers, possibly with MS's own help, have pretty much leaked out every game their studios have planned for the next five years. Sony & especially Nintendo, don't have leaks at that scale and definitely don't throw bones at leakers to keep their name in news cycles. I wouldn't be surprised if both companies have at least a handful of of exclusives they are working on that simply no outsider knows about yet, be they 1P internal studio projects or in tandem with 3P developers.

Plus also let's be honest games like Pentiment and Grounded aren't going to do much to move any needles; they can be fun games but they absolutely aren't the type to gather a lot of cache within the gaming zeitgeist.
We know because Sony has told us how many games they have in development. And you're kidding yourself if you think we know every game that MS has in development, we know about maybe 1/3. We also know because Xbox simply has more development teams than Sony, in addition to their publishing team.

How do you know games like Pentiment and Grounded aren't going to move any needless. A consistent flow of quality AA and AAA games like Pentiment, Grounded, Starfield, Forza, and Redfall are what's going to move the needle, not just one game. You're also kidding yourself if you think smaller games can't create a big impact. A high quality and unique co-op survival game like Grounded actually seems perfect kind of game to create a big impact.
 
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Rac3r

Member
The better question is, do they have what it takes to consistently publish high quality (new and existing) titles? They were able to do it in the 360 era, without gamepass, and were very successful.

I agree with others that at the end of the day, game quality > subscription value.
 

Crayon

Member
Buying Beth and Activision is probably going to make a bigger difference. The Beth purchase turned the conversation overnight and the acti did it all over again.
 
Even though I prefer the UI, online is better, and I love the backwards compatibility....

No.

We'll see if they can get their first party output up to snuff. Honestly, it's those Sony first party games that keep me going back to PS and make it a duality of consoles for me
 
Yeah and Sony is bringing it's games over to Xbox too....

If cod is on gamepass it makes sense that cod players will get seeing that they need live and it's a yearly franchise.

But thats beside the point Xbox will sell more because they will have way more good games and great hardware, case closed.
They'll have more good games by when? They're already falling far behind content wise and it isn't like as soon as the activision deal goes through 6 new games are dropping. Xbox won't be that competitive until next gen. Even Phil admitted that.
 

Sosokrates

Report me if I continue to console war
Ah so maybe next year will be the year for Xbox.

You do know how unintelligent somone must be not to realise that games take time to develop...
Anyway its already been the year for xbox in 2021...
And this year has been good for gampass.. i mean without exclusivity deals what would sonys line up be next year.....
Gamepass has a plague tale requim, scorn, high on life and had many other day 1s this year...
 
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Robb

Gold Member
No, at least not this gen. The studios are too new still. Bethesda was purchased in 2021 and all the games we are getting are titles that have been known about for a long time.

It’s going to take a few years still before we get an exclusive that’s actually developed under MS. The same will probably be true for ActiBlizz.

Ask the same question next gen and I’m fairly sure my answer would be yes.
 

Sosokrates

Report me if I continue to console war
They'll have more good games by when? They're already falling far behind content wise and it isn't like as soon as the activision deal goes through 6 new games are dropping. Xbox won't be that competitive until next gen. Even Phil admitted that.
There is nothing unusual with there devs current development cycles
I suggest doing some research then you can answer your own question.
 
Do you think if Microsoft had still bought all the studios it currently has, (inxile, obsidian, ninja theory, compulsion, Bethesda,etc) that it could have went toe to toe with Nintendo and Sony, offering a direct to consumer only sales model?
No, because they really damaged the Xbox brand with the Xbox one. There main issue is building back the trust in the brand and the purchase of those studios wouldn't be enough in the short term. Game pass is a great deal and the only reason people still have faith in Xbox is because of the Game pass service.

Just look at the output of games they had compared to the competition now and the halo infinite issue. Even with the studios they purchases, no way they would be competitive without game pass because they have not put out games that are worth full price yet IMO besides maybe Forza Horizon 5. Deathloop, Ghost wire and psychonauts 2 wouldn't count because those aren't exclusives.
 

THE DUCK

voted poster of the decade by bots
I think they would have still sold all they built due to shortages of PS5 and video cards, but Sony is outdoing them so far in terms of software. But it definitely helps. This could easily swing the other way with so many studios working, it's just going to take time.
 

JLB

Banned
Probabably not, though not a very relevant thing to analyze considering that in 5 to 10 years time Nintendo and Sony will be essentially irrelevant compared to MS in the gaming space.
 

Warnen

Don't pass gaas, it is your Destiny!
Yes, zenimax buy out, superior hardware, pc day one and now activision…

Seems the issues that sabotaged last gen would have been corrected anyways.
 
Definitely, even without the ridiculously priced AB acquisition where they can't even commit to full exclusivity because they are MS and not because they are XBox.
The 360 was already in a similar situation of possible success until they dropped the ball with their Wii too moment and abandoned the HC gamer. They picked up the ball with the One X and everything since then beside their still struggling games pipeline seems better than what Sony does. Might be the first gen where their late gen support doesn't suck, quite contrary. GP is basically what makes me feel torn, it certainly is a mighty fine feature currently and if I wouldn't still be sour because of the 360+GfWL era I possibly would have switched already but the sole focus on it will come with consequences and this is something I am not eager to see.
Their own games are not there yet too, and neither Bethesda nor AB have interested me much lately, but the games for S or X might become interesting when a PS5 might finally be available here, so too late for me, since Sonys games are also few more and gaas focus will suck, but some are already more interesting and I trust Sony to push out bangers late gen again.
 

uncleslappy

nethack is my favorite dark souls clone
I bought a Series S just because it was:

A. Available
B. The cheapest nextgen option

I'm not someone who really cares about super optimized graphics/framerates. As long as it's stable and playable, I'm happy to sacrifice a little resolution or performance.

That being said, I may not have considered it without GP.
 
Of course why not.The Xbox 360 was also competing well against PS3.The S model helps a lot.If xbox company brings good games it will sell not as much as PS but still can be close.
 

NickFire

Member
I think they would have been more competitive because there is no way their 2022 output would have been so bleak if they were trying to sell new games.
 

johnjohn

Member
They'll have more good games by when? They're already falling far behind content wise and it isn't like as soon as the activision deal goes through 6 new games are dropping. Xbox won't be that competitive until next gen. Even Phil admitted that.
Some of you really don't pay much attention to Xbox, and that's fine, but you don't have to come here and spread this nonsense. Even without Activision they have like 30+ teams that are working on games and already have a stellar lineup announced for the first half of 2023. Also, when did Phil admit they won't be competitive until next gen?
 
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Clear

CliffyB's Cock Holster
Gamepass launched in June 2017, over 5 years ago.

How much has the overall gaming landscape changed in that time? Weirdly, it feels like not much to me.
 

MacReady13

Member
I own a series X without using Game Pass (and I never will) and I love it. Just wish they'd sort out their 1st party bullshit. Other than that, it's a great console. So yes, without game pass and more of a focus on making quality games, Xbox would be kicking ass.
 
Some of you really don't pay much attention to Xbox, and that's fine, but you don't have to come here and spread this nonsense. Even without Activision they have like 30+ teams that are working on games and already have a stellar lineup announced for the first half of 2023. Also, when did Phil admit they won't be competitive until next gen?
Zero release dates for that "stacked" first half of 2023. Phil said during the regulator crap that it's highly unlikely they'd catch up to Sony this gen. I don't remember the exact wording. People are acting like this is the first year xbox didn't have much. They haven't had much 3 of the last 4 years. Didn't even have a launch lineup for crying out loud.
 

OmegaSupreme

advanced basic bitch
I don't think there's any evidence gamepass has been a reason people have bought Xbox at all. Gamepass isn't new. Less than 50 percent of capable xboxs are subscribed. Gamepass could disappear tomorrow and I doubt it'd make much of a difference.
 
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Stuart360

Member
I don't think there's any evidence gamepass has been a reason people have bought Xbox at all. Gamepass isn't new. Less than 50 percent of capable xboxs are subscribed. Gamepass could disappear tomorrow and I doubt it'd make much of a difference.
So you think literally no one bought an Xbox (especially a XSS) for Gamepass, a subscription service that costs a few bucks a month while having over 400 games on it, and the promise of all future Xbox first party games launching on the service day and date?.
 

OmegaSupreme

advanced basic bitch
So you think literally no one bought an Xbox (especially a XSS) for Gamepass, a subscription service that costs a few bucks a month while having over 400 games on it, and the promise of all future Xbox first party games launching on the service day and date?.
Literally no one? No but not enough to make any real impact. Has it helped their market share? Would you get rid of your Xbox if gamepass was cancelled?
 
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