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I hate the pixel art trend
- Thread starter NightmareFarm
- Start date
SlimeGooGoo
Party Gooper
Because it uses less VRAM, which is available is smaller quantities in mobile devices.
With frame-by-frame animations, each frame is a single image.
The bigger the resolution, the more memory it will use.
If you want detailed animations, then a 24 frame-per-second animation will require 24 individual images per second.
For skeletal sprite animation, you only need one texture with all the sprites, and all the animations will reference that single texture.
It will use less memory, but slightly increase CPU usage.
Wonder Boy is a game that uses frame-by-frame animations, and Muramasa uses skeletal sprite animation.
Just wanted to point out that both require a lot of effort to look good, regardless of the animation strategy.
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DeepEnigma
Gold Member
There is just something so endearing about beautiful pixel art such as those animated in the link, that the modern styled 3D engines simply can't replicate, IMO.
this is a cool color cycle trick demo website.. if you want to see how people push it.
Makes me sad this art is forgotten by many.
Limitation often pushed people to get the most out of the tools they have.
Look at the 3d gba games
64bitmodels
Reverse groomer.
this is also why the capcom fighting games on PS1 were shit, the amount of animations the PS1 needed to render was well beyond the memory capacity and so they had to make a lot of cutbacks on the game in order to make it work on the machine.Because it uses less VRAM, which is available is smaller quantities in mobile devices.
With frame-by-frame animations, each frame is a single image.
The bigger the resolution, the more memory it will use.
If you want detailed animations, then a 24 frame-per-second animation will require 24 individual images per second.
For skeletal sprite animation, you only need one texture with all the sprites, and all the animations will reference that single texture.
It will use less memory, but slightly increase CPU usage.
Wonder Boy is a game that uses frame-by-frame animations, and Muramasa uses skeletal sprite animation.
Just wanted to point out that both require a lot of effort to look good, regardless of the animation strategy.
64bitmodels
Reverse groomer.
stuff shown here is cool and very nice to appreciate... but a lot of the boomer shooters OP is talking about do not use 2D for environments at all because that's kind of hard to make work. He's angry at the stuff in the world being 2d not the world itself lol
this is a cool color cycle trick demo website.. if you want to see how people push it.
Makes me sad this art is forgotten by many.
Limitation often pushed people to get the most out of the tools they have.
Look at the 3d gba games
Also those images really remind me more of 3d images than 2d pixel art, the shading, depth and detail are unreal for pixel art.
cireza
Member
Pixel-art can be fantastic, no reason for it to disappear.
What I don't like however, are developers that pick only the constraints they like from 8 or 16 bits pixels, like the color palette, but then make their game for modern hardware only.
If you are going to pretend to make a GB or MD homage, then do it properly and make a GB or MD game. Then bundle it in an emulator for modern consoles.
What I don't like however, are developers that pick only the constraints they like from 8 or 16 bits pixels, like the color palette, but then make their game for modern hardware only.
If you are going to pretend to make a GB or MD homage, then do it properly and make a GB or MD game. Then bundle it in an emulator for modern consoles.
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Nydius
Member
So you don’t like pixel art style and you don’t like realism and you think all games should look like Shadow Warrior 3 with its exaggerated art style and color saturation?
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64bitmodels
Reverse groomer.
almost every dev does that, you aren't going to find many that don't.
Pixel art is a form of art and an artistic choice, not a nostalgic tool meant to pay homage to older systems.
Danjin44
The nicest person on this forum
We can have all. having variety of art in games is great it what makes video games enjoyable.
I can enjoy all.
cireza
Member
Some games are a clear homage to a very specific older console, such as Shovel Knight or the upcoming game from Yacht Club. Timespinner is basically the exact pixel-art style from later Square SNES RPGs. Curse of the Moon games are clearly meant to look like NES games. Even Capcom made Megaman 9 and 10. They could have made SNES, NES or GB games. M2 made Aleste 3 for GG and Bitmap Bureau made Xeno Crisis for MegaDrive.
Pixel-art is an art-style for sure, but some developers specifically target visuals that look precisely like some older consoles, yet they don't target the hardware as a whole.
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killatopak
Member
I like pixel art. I feel like they are ones that stand the test of time.
However I do agree that there's too much of them especially in the indie space. It's a small complaint especially knowing how expensive it is to make games so I don't let it bother me.
However I do agree that there's too much of them especially in the indie space. It's a small complaint especially knowing how expensive it is to make games so I don't let it bother me.
Kilau
Member
I love good pixel art, I do not like lazy pixel art and there is a lot of it.
Good read here, https://dinosaur-games.com/a-pixel-artist-renounces-pixel-art/
Good read here, https://dinosaur-games.com/a-pixel-artist-renounces-pixel-art/
NightmareFarm
Member
Is straw manning your only way of debating? Not even worth responding to this insane strawSo you don’t like pixel art style and you don’t like realism and you think all games should look like Shadow Warrior 3 with its exaggerated art style and color saturation?
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NightmareFarm
Member
Pure unadultered facts right here.
NightmareFarm
Member
Gaming visuals aren't a binary choice between 90s graphics and photorealism. I don't know why people keep making it out to be this way ITT. There are literally 1000s of other art styles. There is anime style, cel shaded style, semi-realism, watercolour, etc.I hate the constant seek for realism so I kinda get it, but we can't do nothing, just avoid those games, graphics are also part of enjoyment
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Danjin44
The nicest person on this forum
And pixel is just different style, you are free not to like it but it doesn’t mean it shouldn’t exist.
NightmareFarm
Member
Objectively it should stop being made or be a more niche thing since we're well past the pixel era in 2023. There are two entire decades dedicated to those games, people can go play them if they want pixel graphics. It is holding back originality and part of what is keeping gaming stagnant.
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Danjin44
The nicest person on this forum
Speak for yourself, I can enjoy pixel art not matter how many years has past.
Cramoss
Member
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LostDonkey
Member
Me too bro me too.
Except Fez.
That shit was amazing.
Except Fez.
That shit was amazing.
Tarin02543
Member
Try In The Hunt.
bender
What time is it?
64bitmodels
Reverse groomer.
fuck off. Objectively it is a form of art and will always be made. It will continue to exist so long as there are people who want to make games inspired by them.
And besides they'll stop being as prevalent anyways. UE5's going to shake up the entire indie industry and teams will be able to make games on the scale of triple A without a fraction of the budget. hell indies are already moving away from the pixel art look as it stands.
Fuz
Banned
cancer.
It's only used today either due to lack of ability or lack of financial resources. Saying it's a design choice is disingenuous aka bullshit.
FloopCookiefix
Member
I admit, there have been many times that I've seen a game with a gorgeous boxart/store icon, only to find an image of the actual game and discover it's a rather visually uninspired top-down-pixel-something-or-other, so I definitely feel you, OP.
That said, as brought up by others in the thread, that's not just because it's 2D. This is obvious, but:
• 2D pixel art can be absolutely stunning
• poor 2D pixel art can be absolutely boring/a let down
...and the same goes for 3D
For both 2D and 3D, I think the best cases are the ones that make full use of their chosen presentation in some way (usually meaning highly time-consuming and with massive effort) or at least do something unique with it- whether it be in rendering, texture work, medium blending, usage of the camera, scale, intricate animations/detail, etc.
(GAF doesn't want me adding Pizza Tower gifs apparently, but I would've put it in there for a 2D indie game that's an absolute labor of love)
Octopath II, to me, was a recent wonderful modern example. I loved the use of 2D-3D blending, and the detail on the boss sprites in particular made me ascend. What also really caught my eye and made me go "DANG" was the use of dramatic lighting, and how that affected the sprites. (Of course, it's not indie, and the credits show they even had a department specifically for handling just the boss sprites)
All this to say: it's not the medium, it's whoever is behind it (and apart from that, there can still be a whole host of reasons why certain things turn out the way they do). Jank 3D can be just as uninspired/unpleasant to look at as jank 2D, one is not inherently better than the other
edit: I do want to add that personally I'd love to see more 2D/3D blends in general, whether that means starting with a 3D base and integrating 2D/traditional auxiliary elements, or vice versa
That said, as brought up by others in the thread, that's not just because it's 2D. This is obvious, but:
• 2D pixel art can be absolutely stunning
• poor 2D pixel art can be absolutely boring/a let down
...and the same goes for 3D
For both 2D and 3D, I think the best cases are the ones that make full use of their chosen presentation in some way (usually meaning highly time-consuming and with massive effort) or at least do something unique with it- whether it be in rendering, texture work, medium blending, usage of the camera, scale, intricate animations/detail, etc.
(GAF doesn't want me adding Pizza Tower gifs apparently, but I would've put it in there for a 2D indie game that's an absolute labor of love)
Octopath II, to me, was a recent wonderful modern example. I loved the use of 2D-3D blending, and the detail on the boss sprites in particular made me ascend. What also really caught my eye and made me go "DANG" was the use of dramatic lighting, and how that affected the sprites. (Of course, it's not indie, and the credits show they even had a department specifically for handling just the boss sprites)
All this to say: it's not the medium, it's whoever is behind it (and apart from that, there can still be a whole host of reasons why certain things turn out the way they do). Jank 3D can be just as uninspired/unpleasant to look at as jank 2D, one is not inherently better than the other
edit: I do want to add that personally I'd love to see more 2D/3D blends in general, whether that means starting with a 3D base and integrating 2D/traditional auxiliary elements, or vice versa
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Danjin44
The nicest person on this forum
Octopath 2 it just fucking gorgeous game to look at and boss sprites looks well design and looks epic as fuck.
nkarafo
Member
Metal Slug is more detailed and better animated than 100% of modern pixel art games.
SlimeGooGoo
Party Gooper
SlimeGooGoo
Party Gooper
These look horrible though.Octopath II, to me, was a recent wonderful modern example. I loved the use of 2D-3D blending, and the detail on the boss sprites in particular made me ascend. What also really caught my eye and made me go "DANG" was the use of dramatic lighting, and how that affected the sprites. (Of course, it's not indie, and the credits show they even had a department specifically for handling just the boss sprites)
It's what lazy devs do: get some sprites with *very* low resolution and put some photorealistic lighting and EXTREME bloom + depth of field shaders on top to hide all the ugliness.
Thing is, sprites were low res because they were suited for the resolution they were meant to be rendered.
Modern pixel art would be suited for high resolution monitors, and not 80's monitor resolution.
This "retro" trend needs to go.
It's just an excuse to make cheap graphics and throw in the trash the potential that current hardware has for 2D games.
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FloopCookiefix
Member
Sorry, I personally can't see the sprite work and animations as being lazy. There's clearly a lot of filtering/post-processing/lighting techniques used, but it just worked for me. And it's not like I don't appreciate the absolute full scale wildness and intricacy of the Metal Slug games. It looked great to me while playing, so we might have to disagree on this.
What are your personal favorites, both 2D and 3D?
Edit: And do you have modern examples, in particular as well?
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nkarafo
Member
You pretty much explained why modern pixel art games look bad (mostly).
It's especially awful when they go to the extremes with sprites that are even lower definition than your average NES sprite, and then they cover all that with modern lighting and post-processing effects.
Pixel art was also not as sharp and defined. The CRTs worked like natural filters than made all assets look more rounded. But in modern games you get to see each blocky pixel in fine detail and sharpness. That's not how these games looked like. They only looked like that in emulators on high-res monitors, without CRT shaders (at best you only had bilinear filtering) and i bet most current developers only know these games through emulation and never played them on an old CRT.
Pixel art can still look good now but if you ask me, i rather have something like Cup Head instead of a game that could be done on the Saturn or something.
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64bitmodels
Reverse groomer.
Danjin44
The nicest person on this forum
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Muffdraul
Member
I feel you. I have zero interest in pretty much anything 'retro' which is pretty ironic considering I'm so old that Jesus owes me $5.
One of my favorite things about video games has always been watching them evolve over time, I have no desire to get stuck in the past or go backward, ever.
One of my favorite things about video games has always been watching them evolve over time, I have no desire to get stuck in the past or go backward, ever.
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FloopCookiefix
Member
I love the animation and design of the new Mickey Mouse cartoons, but it's not quite fair to make a blanket statement about "choppy stiff anime" (but I agree in general that puppeted animation can still look lovely)
Again... depends on who's behind the scenes, and in the case of anime, often comes down to who is the key animator for a sequence of cuts, or even just individual shots
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Fbh
Member
I don't really mind pixel art graphics in most games.
But I must admit I've never liked how most "boomer shooters" look. I'd love to see some of the design ideas applied to games that look a bit more modern.
I dig the retro trend but I must admit my opinion on "2D-HD" had deteriorated over time. I thought it looked nice the first time Octopath was shown but once the novelty wears off it's pretty ugly with the extreme bloom, depth of field and the big low res boss sprites.
I vastly prefer a more traditional 2D look like Sea of Stars:
Seems like a much nicer mix of pixel art with more modern lighting
But I must admit I've never liked how most "boomer shooters" look. I'd love to see some of the design ideas applied to games that look a bit more modern.
I dig the retro trend but I must admit my opinion on "2D-HD" had deteriorated over time. I thought it looked nice the first time Octopath was shown but once the novelty wears off it's pretty ugly with the extreme bloom, depth of field and the big low res boss sprites.
I vastly prefer a more traditional 2D look like Sea of Stars:
Seems like a much nicer mix of pixel art with more modern lighting
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FloopCookiefix
Member
Pejo
Member
Funny thing is that pixel art has and will age better than 3D stuff. Look at PS1/early PS2 days and tell me that Chrono Trigger doesn't hold up better than just about anything else.
Anyways, pixel art at this day and age is an artistic vision choice. I agree that a lot of (primarily) indies do cheap out and make kinda shit pixel art. All of the old stuff was meant to be viewed via a CRT TV which actually enhances the look quite a bit vs the digital displays we all use now. Not to say pixel art can't still look great, but it needs more effort put into it than we commonly get.
Look at old fighting game backgrounds as an example of what can be done with good pixel art. (full disclosure: Some of these may be "traced" polygons, I am not autstic enough to know which backgrounds were done with what method)
Anyways, pixel art at this day and age is an artistic vision choice. I agree that a lot of (primarily) indies do cheap out and make kinda shit pixel art. All of the old stuff was meant to be viewed via a CRT TV which actually enhances the look quite a bit vs the digital displays we all use now. Not to say pixel art can't still look great, but it needs more effort put into it than we commonly get.
Look at old fighting game backgrounds as an example of what can be done with good pixel art. (full disclosure: Some of these may be "traced" polygons, I am not autstic enough to know which backgrounds were done with what method)
EruditeHobo
Member
There's nothing objective about this statement -- that's why someone called you a philistine.
Congrats on the attention from your topic featuring your dumb opinion, though.
Pixelart (as an option) forever!
64bitmodels
Reverse groomer.
chrono trigger doesn't hold up that much better than Jak and Daxter, Metal Gear Solid 2, Ratchet and Clank, Jet Set Radio Future, Halo, and Conker's Bad Fur Day. If the only thing you see is dated polygons, you've got a severe issue with your vision.
SeraphJan
Member
This level of pixel art will cease to exist TBH, it requires way too much work, most modern dev will just use cheaper ways such as Spine or convert 3D animation into 2D sprite.Look at old fighting game backgrounds as an example of what can be done with good pixel art. (full disclosure: Some of these may be "traced" polygons, I am not autstic enough to know which backgrounds were done with what method)
Hand drawn 2D background is very expensive to make, even games like Triangle Strategy uses 3D background (which AFAIK was developed using Unreal 4)
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Pejo
Member
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-Zelda-
Banned
Love them both, but hope they decide to put Octopath Traveler 1 on PS5.
64bitmodels
Reverse groomer.
I didn't play any of those games growing up. Many of them still have great art directions that hold up well and bringing up images of how these games look at their worst isn't gonna change that. Not to mention that for as good as Chrono Trigger looks... the animations in it are also janky and terrible even by SNES standards.
