• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

I'm two-and-a-half books into The Wheel of Time. Here are my thoughts so far.

Status
Not open for further replies.

JeffZero

Purple Drazi
Hot on the heels of the television adaptation news, I've decided to briefly chronicle my thoughts on what I've read thus far in Robert Jordan's and Brandon Sanderson's perennially cult-popular sprawling fantasy saga. I began reading late last year, which should signify of course that a.) I do read kind of slowly; b.) I read multiple books at a time. But I want to note that I've zipped (in relative terms) through the first 400 pages of The Dragon Reborn in under a fortnight, so I've started to refrain from reading much else.

That should tell you right off the bat that I am loving this series.

A little literary background: I'm a lifelong science fiction diehard, but until 2011 I'd only read fantasy's The Lord of the Rings, and as you might expect, the 2011 add-on was A Song of Ice and Fire. Amusingly, I've written a high/dark fantasy character in a text-based roleplaying MUD (I can hear the groans) since I was 15 years old, but I've generally maintained that apart from a few key examples, fantasy ain't my style.

Until recently, that is. Between Game of Thrones, Dragon Age, and now The Wheel of Time, I'm reevaluating my ignorant stances and realizing that this genre is gorgeous. I've gone from incorrectly positing that there's precious little of interest... to suddenly worrying about which fantasy saga I should hop into next.

But that's a ways away, because I've still got twelve-and-a-half books to go. Or thirteen-and-a-half, if we're counting New Spring. So for now, the meat of this topic. Analysis of Robert Jordan's epic novels Eye of the World and The Great Hunt, from the perspective of a first-time lad in 2017. Oh, and 400 pages of the next one, too.

The Story

I'll be honest. I wasn't sure I was going to enjoy this adventure so much until about halfway into EoTW. While it's fair to say there's a lot of archetypal content all across the pages, those first 300 or so in Eye were troubling. Three young men and their sassy female friend talk about adventure and gleemen's stories and fight dastardly trollocs and learn stuff. Yeah, I know, I'm being unfair. There's still a lot to appreciate here, but I kept thinking, "I can't wait for Moiraine to speak again. The boys' dialogue isn't doing it for me at all."

Everything changed in Shadar Logoth. EoTW felt bigger, and the stakes felt bigger, and the world felt bigger, and intriguing, and more menacing. I'd already met the Whitecloaks, but the notion of something so terrible that a Fade would freak out really resonated with me. It showed me that this is a very thought-out setting with all these cultures. And I really hadn't seen anything yet.

Almost from the very first page, The Great Hunt impressed me thrice as much as its predecessor. I thought I was getting a good read on the size and scope, but I hadn't even seen mention of Seanchan yet, nor did I have an inkling of how complicated a society the Aes Sedai truly are. I lack awareness of these things, because I've made sure not to read stuff online, but it wouldn't surprise me if harsh critics of WoT declaim it as "needlessly complex." This strikes me as the sort of story people would say that toward. I suppose this is the part where I tell you one of my two favorite video games is literally Xenogears. I don't suspect this will ever be a negative criticism of mine, but it's early days.

I like the themes. I like the setting. I like that The Pattern suddenly belongs to an Age Lace or something. I like that every time I think I've squinted and dropped my jaw enough times to get a firm feel for this crazy world, an Aes Sedai throws a new term at me, or an Aielman references lands beyond the Spine of the World, or I do a triple-take because I feel like Perrin just saw a dog's footprint made in concrete, and is this Earth? There's a ton of content in these books, and Jordan is clearly worthy of the tagline I keep saying on my copies as I order them: that he's come to "dominate the world Tolkien began to reveal." Hell yeah, he has. With a ten-megaton sa'angreal.

The Characters

I imagine I'm not alone in saying this, but if you'd asked me to rank this cast at the end of the first book, versus midway through the third, my answer would shift considerably between the two. I still like Rand, but Perrin and Matrim are really beginning to come into their own, now. I've been told they're two standout fan favorites, and early on I had to assume this was due to an increase in presence later on, because Mat especially was really not that great, and Perrin wasn't all that higher up the list. Lately, though, I'm amazed by the fun and peril of Mat's chapters, and the tone and enigma of Perrin's.

My favorite character, however, has been Nynaeve for most of the journey to-date. I adore her. Her snark, her anger, her eye-rolls. Her braid-tugs. She's liable to rip that braid clean off if she keeps this up, and I think I saw someone say that verbatim in the other WoT thread earlier today. She's excellent. I like Egwene and Min a lot, too, and I hear-tell Egwene gets a lot of flak? But, as ever, it's early. I reckon I'll change my list all sorts of times going forward.

So here's where I tell y'all that I'm known to do something very bizarre with the fiction books I read. I'm a television and film fan first and foremost, and I've been an actor sporadically as well, so I have a real knack for wanting to assign "actor faces" to every primary and secondary character. I've got a whole lineup. Sometimes I change the actors for these characters once they start showing up more than I'd intended. I won't bore you with the whole shebang, but my girl Nynaeve's a natural brunette Emilia Clarke if I ever did read one, and I'm damn sure she said "Dracarys" to those Seanchan back in Falme.

Looking Ahead

There's so much going on right now in The Wheel of Time that if I wanted to jot down all my theories, all my suspicions, I'd be here all night. I've heard that books 7-10 are a total slog, but I've had so many people tell me to find the will to press on through because the latter volumes are worth the effort. My good friend Doug has told me so. My good friend Jonathan has told me so. My coworker has told me so. The local bookseller lady has told me so. Everyone has told me so. It has been drilled into my brain just as vividly as I drill into the brains of first-time Star Trek viewers that the inaugural seasons of most Trek fare are gauntlets of meh. So I think I get the point.

There are certain things I really want to see more from in the remaining installments. Selene, that wicked Lanfear (Fear of Lan in the Old Tongue, I'm sure). I want to see more of her. And more of Liandrin, too, while I'm at it. They're both very love-to-hate. (The Dark One's fine, but he's also Cliff Simon's Ba'al on Stargate SG-1 in my visual headcanon, and that's perhaps his most interesting quality right now, and I made it up.) I also want to see more of the Aiel. They're fascinating. Very Dune. I bet I'm the nine millionth person to make that observation. I'm a big fan of charting courses and exploration, too. In real life, I'm very much a vagrant soul. So I'd love to see the lands beyond the known world.

And I want to see Egwene become the Amyrlin Seat. Goodness gracious, that vision of the future she received was intense.

Parting Thoughts

Well, there you have it. Thanks for reading this thing, and I apologize for how scattershot it is. I've been soaking in the goodness for months, now, and I really needed a venue to throw some words out in praise. I look forward to the rest of this wild ride. Even the slogs.
 

Veelk

Banned
I had....differing thoughts. (spoilers for book 3 and some of 4)

That was when it was fresh in my mind. What I remember now is mostly just a burning hatred of the characters for being generally annoying.

Glad your enjoying it though.

If you enjoy this, I recommend reading Stormlight Archives by Brandon Sanderson. As you know, he wrote the last 3 books of WoT. I only read Stormlight Archives, so I don't know how it compares directly to his WoT stuff, but since I read them right after I dropped WoT, I saw a lot of Jordan's general technique, but refined to the point where I didn't hate it. For me, Brandon Sanderson is the Robert Jordan if he didn't suck.
 
I'm glad you're enjoying the books. I had a wonderful time reading them till Book 7 myself. But yeah, as plenty of people have already been warning you, the following ones are a complete slog. I gave up near the start of Book 10 around 4 years ago or something. Or has it been longer? However, also like you, plenty of people have been urging me to power through them because the last ones that Sanderson (who is probably my favorite fantasy author currently) wrote are really great. The announcement of the series and your writeup have encouraged me to read detailed summaries of the 9 books I finished and then I'll start powering through the 10th.
 

Nymerio

Member
This is the only series I couldn't finish. The first three books or so I found pretty amazing but I really started to get annoyed while reading the fourth book. Somewhere in book five I just started to skim to get through and never picked up the next book. I have been meaning to try again though, but I always opted for other books so far.
 
It's great that you like the books so much now -- hopefully that will give you the momentum to power through books 8-10. I'm a fellow slow reader, and I had a hard time with that stretch when I re-read the series recently, just because I felt like I was spending so much of my life reading those books. But overall, I absolutely adore this series. I first read it more than a decade ago, and upon re-reading it, I was caught off guard by just how imaginative it is. I was really impressed by the first few books in particular. Hopefully you'll continue to enjoy the series -- Book 4 was my personal favorite.
 

kyser73

Member
OP if you're in a discovery phase for fantasy, once you've made it through your current read try the Thomas Covenant saga.
 

BigDes

Member
The first three books are pretty good. The next three are OK. Books 7 to 10 are pretty much dbz filler episodes.

Not read the last few books as I got burned out.

Might do a reread of the series at some point.
 

JeffZero

Purple Drazi
Thanks for the replies, y'all! <3 You've given me even more to consider.

OP if you're in a discovery phase for fantasy, once you've made it through your current read try the Thomas Covenant saga.

Ooh, duly noted. I'll throw it on the queue.
 

HStallion

Now what's the next step in your master plan?
The worst part of the series is the middle section where it becomes hugely packed with characters and the pacing tends to become glacial. I'd power through those books and get to the ending which was written by Sanderson and did an amazing job of finishing off the series and tying up loose ends.
 

HStallion

Now what's the next step in your master plan?
The 7-10 read was much easier after the series was complete. Imagine reading then back when you had to wait 2 years between books!

That was me. I read them as they came out. I started reading them when I was like 11 or 12 at that ol
 

Mandius

Member
I found the characters to be quite shallow in the WOT series. At any one time they tend to have only one or two traits that define them.
 
End of book 3 is when it falls into a deep dark pit of mediocrity only to finally emerge in the final few books... written by someone else. It isn't really worth the effort by the way, the last few books are not that great, but it wraps it up nicely and it is still something to do.

So enjoy!

Yes the first two books are very good and it has some brilliantly exciting ideas. That is why the series went on for so long and that is why people slugged through the crap. But boy, do you have no idea what is about to hit. From memory you don't even know who Faile is. I envy you. She is just one of the characters that not only messes up the books by being awful in her own right, but also actively destroys other characters you previously might have enjoyed.

OP if you're in a discovery phase for fantasy, once you've made it through your current read try the Thomas Covenant saga.

If the OP gets through the Wheel of Time they have suffered enough. I love the Thomas Covenant saga too...but fuck me is it a very hard slog.
 
Mat really is the best character imo. Even later when the books begin to draaaaag, Mat's chapters are always fun. He's the Indiana Jones / Han Solo of the books.

Perrin's were a close second for me until he got sidetracked for a while there.
 
Enjoy OP. I've read it all a dozen times leading up to the final books.

It's my favourite of all time.

I find the majority of people who complain about the books 8-10 probably read them as they were released. So they had to wait years for those books to come out and felt they could have been better. A straight read through now would probably negate those feelings.

It's all good to me as the World Building is just fantastic.
 

x-Lundz-x

Member
Great overview in the OP. This is my all time favorite series. I started reading them when I was 15 and have read the series about 5 times minutes the last book only once.

Path of daggers is the only "bad" book. Still needs to be read though. You are in for one hell of a ride!

Also Min is best girl by a country mile. :)
 

Frostburn

Member
I'm at the same point in the series as the OP. I took a break after the second book to read "Assassin's Apprentice" and then the rest of the Farseer Trilogy. Just picked back up on book 3 of the WoT series a week ago, everything came back straight away and hopefully I can knock out a few more books before diverting to another series.
 
End of book 3 is when it falls into a deep dark pit of mediocrity only to finally emerge in the final few books... written by someone else. It isn't really worth the effort by the way, the last few books are not that great, but it wraps it up nicely and it is still something to do.

So enjoy!

Yes the first two books are very good and it has some brilliantly exciting ideas. That is why the series went on for so long and that is why people slugged through the crap. But boy, do you have no idea what is about to hit. From memory you don't even know who Faile is. I envy you. She is just one of the characters that not only messes up the books by being awful in her own right, but also actively destroys other characters you previously might have enjoyed.



If the OP gets through the Wheel of Time they have suffered enough. I love the Thomas Covenant saga too...but fuck me is it a very hard slog.

The best chapter in the whole series is in book 5 or 6, I forget which.
The part where Rand gets out of the box.
 

Baliis

Member
The best chapter in the whole series is in book 5 or 6, I forget which.
The part where Rand gets out of the box.

Dumai's wells in book 6 yea.
Fantastic scene. Though personally I'm pretty fond of the scene at the end of book 9 during
the cleansing with the different PoVs from all the Forsaken and defenders
 
Rand really comes through later on when things hit the fan. I really like his later parts. Mat as well. I need to re-read this series >.<
 
There's so much I want to tell you, based on what you said in your OP, but of course I won't. I mean, I'm only on book 7 myself, so there's much and more I've yet to learn myself.

But one of my biggest issues with the series, thus far at least, is how reticent Jordan was about killing characters. Aside from killing
several Forsaken, Moiraine, and Pedron Niall - he even retcons deaths in the middle of a chapter when Rand kills that one Forsaken with balefire, for Christ's sake -
, I can't think of any other prominent deaths - and in a series constantly adding new characters, it makes it tough to keep track of the various storylines since they're not getting trimmed down very often.

But the complexity of magic is fantastic, and I'm dying to know how certain storylines resolve, so I'm still in full bore.
 

Manzoon

Banned
Prepare for all the braid tugging, skirt smoothing, and arms crossing underneath breasts you can stomach. Also prepare for Rand to be the greatest angst riddled snow flake forever. Prepare to not see any characters that you like. The prologues become a curse very quickly.
 
Almost from the very first page, The Great Hunt impressed me thrice as much as its predecessor. I thought I was getting a good read on the size and scope, but I hadn't even seen mention of Seanchan yet, nor did I have an inkling of how complicated a society the Aes Sedai truly are. I lack awareness of these things, because I've made sure not to read stuff online, but it wouldn't surprise me if harsh critics of WoT declaim it as "needlessly complex." This strikes me as the sort of story people would say that toward. I suppose this is the part where I tell you one of my two favorite video games is literally Xenogears. I don't suspect this will ever be a negative criticism of mine, but it's early days.

And this is where I differ from all the people who don't love this series, and why The Wheel of Time is almost certainly my favorite fantasy book series -- I love that detail! Those later books of Jordan's, books ~7-10, I like them every bit as much or more than the early ones. Books absolutely can be bogged down by too much detail, and the trend in fantasy fiction over the past 20-plus years towards longer and longer and longer books definitely has its downsides, but where some other authors' long books are hard to read because of how overly verbose they are (there are so many examples of this now...), Robert Jordan had a way of writing incredibly detailed stories that flow and I, at least, find very easy to read quickly. I never once thought 'he should stop being so obsessed with detailing minutae and get on with it', because it's all so compelling reading!

... well, never once apart from that he died sadly young-ish and thus was not able to finish the series or write followups. That's a horrible tragedy, and I will probably always wish he had, because Sanderson's three books at the end aren't anywhere near the level or Jordan's, not in my opinion. Sanderson is a good fantasy writer, sure, but he cannot match Jordan's style or love for fascinating detail. Sure, at some point you had to actually hit the point of resolving more plotlines than you open, and that is not something Jordan ever did in any of the books in the series, but when you are so good at writing and coming up with all those ideas, why not put them in the series? It's better off for it! That detail is why I love this series so much. Additionally, when reading the three Sanderson books I can't help but keep wondering which parts were originally intended by Jordan, and which were added by Sanderson and are his ideas. But in such a situation such issues are inevitable.

So yeah, the part
with Faile in the Aiel camp
is one of the better parts in the series, I thought. The later Jordan books are great!
In that specific case it surely helps that Faile is probably my favorite character, but still, it's good.

A lot of people don't care for Eddings works but I found his Belgariad and Mallorean series quite good reads. If you want something a little less intense but with some decent fantasy and sorcery give these a go. Much lighter reads.

Link to the first 3 of 10 books.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/0345456327/?tag=neogaf0e-20

I first started reading Eddings in junior high, but went back and re-read the Belgariad recently after a long time, and it still holds up very well! Sure, there are things I could criticize about the books, but they are easy (and quick), fun reads and I like it a lot even if, in retrospect, the story is very cliche... though at the time (when the Belgariad was written in the late '70s and '80s) it was less so than it appears now; indeed, reading them again now that stuff just adds to the charm in some ways.

Eddings does have a limited number of character types that recur in all of his fantasy books, and like Jordan has been criticized for that, but I don't mind in either case; Eddings' characters are entertaining and he has a great sense of humor and writing style, so I don't mind that so many of them are similar.
 

Draven143

Member
Prepare for all the braid tugging, skirt smoothing, and arms crossing underneath breasts you can stomach. Also prepare for Rand to be the greatest angst riddled snow flake forever. Prepare to not see any characters that you like. The prologues become a curse very quickly.

You forgot sniffing. All the women in these books sniff enough to finish off the pile of cocain,on the table in front of Tony Montana, on a daily basis.
 
D

Deleted member 1235

Unconfirmed Member
Prepare for all the braid tugging, skirt smoothing, and arms crossing underneath breasts you can stomach. Also prepare for Rand to be the greatest angst riddled snow flake forever. Prepare to not see any characters that you like. The prologues become a curse very quickly.
yeah this was pretty suck.... but i liked the series. there is a crap bunch of books near the end then brandon sanderson arrives and saves the day. on of the most satisfying endings to an epic series
 
I'm on Book 6 and though I am enjoying it still, I can feel the pace slowing down to a crawl, and am slowly becoming disinterested.

Does anyone have another suggestion for a fantasy series? I've read Stormlight, Mistborn, and Kingkiller. Ideally looking for something with some good action, and perhaps with a lot of 'badassery' - a Han Solo or Indiana Jones, to rival Kaladin/Rand&Matt.
 

Veelk

Banned
I'm on Book 6 and though I am enjoying it still, I can feel the pace slowing down to a crawl, and am slowly becoming disinterested.

Does anyone have another suggestion for a fantasy series? I've read Stormlight, Mistborn, and Kingkiller. Ideally looking for something with some good action, and perhaps with a lot of 'badassery' - a Han Solo or Indiana Jones, to rival Kaladin/Rand&Matt.

Gentleman Bastards by Scott Lynch. First book is called "The Lies of Locke Lamora".
 

Manzoon

Banned
You forgot sniffing. All the women in these books sniff enough to finish off the pile of cocain,on the table in front of Tony Montana, on a daily basis.

My deepest apologies, I did forget the sniffing.

yeah this was pretty suck.... but i liked the series. there is a crap bunch of books near the end then brandon sanderson arrives and saves the day. on of the most satisfying endings to an epic series

I read book eleven when it came out and have yet to read Sanderson's novels, although I've heard they are satisfactory and concise in ways that Jordan could never have accomplished. Jordan's writing style was very grating for me by book five or so. A roommate was rereading the whole wheel of time series in preparation for the last book, and he was taking me down memory lane as we recalled all the nonsensical stuff.

I'll get around to finishing it one day, if only for closure. I feel pretty confident that you could cut out a few books worth of material and the series would be better as a whole.

Thought exercise, imagine nearly any scene as if it was a schlocky fantasy anime, fits goddamn perfectly.

Edit:
Does anyone have another suggestion for a fantasy series? I've read Stormlight, Mistborn, and Kingkiller. Ideally looking for something with some good action, and perhaps with a lot of 'badassery' - a Han Solo or Indiana Jones, to rival Kaladin/Rand&Matt.

It might be a bit more serious than you want, but the Malazan Book of the Fallen series is really legit. The general theme could be described as 'a series of ancient badasses awaken who then have their asses handed to them by underdog badasses' in a very loose sense of course.
 

siddx

Magnificent Eager Mighty Brilliantly Erect Registereduser
I read the first 7 or 8 in a row in a very short amount of time, took a month break and then finished the rest.
I hated the three main characters by the end, but I still found myself rooting for them. Same for the female cast. I wanted them to succeed and win and come out on top despite finding them all to be extremely unlikable. It was a very very odd experience to both root for and hate a character.

I think maybe my issue was that bingeing on the books so quickly left me bombarded by all these characters and their numerous flaws without time to miss them between books or let their annoyances fade before going back into their world.
Because I loved the world itself, I loved the history and the locations and the mechanics of how everything worked. Despite my issues with the characters, I love the series, I almost feel like rereading some of it now.

I say this in every wot thread but Jordan most definitely had some serious emotional issues with women, his storylines and portrayals become absurd as the series progresses.
 

Draven143

Member
By the end of the series
Androl and Pevara
had become my favorite characters not named Matrim. (And they don't show up until the last book!) Also, if I remember correctly,
Androl
was give to Sanderson to be his own unique character.
 

blackjaw

Member
1-5 were awesome

Then it sucked so bad I almost quit

Then the Sanderson books tied everything together and made it all worth it in the end

Jordan really got off track there for years that I was almost positive nobody could tie up every loose end
 

Sulik2

Member
1-5 were awesome

Then it sucked so bad I almost quit

Then the Sanderson books tied everything together and made it all worth it in the end

Jordan really got off track there for years that I was almost positive nobody could tie up every loose end

Wait what. You didn't like Lord of Chaos? I don't know anyone who doesn't like that book. It ends with one of the best battles in the series.

I've seen a lot of people with different opinions about when the quality dropped off. 8 - 10 for me. Although reading them now when you aren't waiting that long they actually are better then I remember and have some great moments.
 

RangerX

Banned
I gave up at the ninth book. The series had become ridiculously convoluted and every second chapter was mind numbingly boring. First four books are great though.
 

Carn82

Member
As already posted, if youre into the series now reading 7 to 10 isn't that bad, it was excruciating when they got released. Sanderson takes everything in turbomode and did a great job finishing the story if you ask me, it's worth getting through the filler.
 
It's so worth it for the finale. That epic final book....that was remarkable. I was literally shaking during the final battle.
 

mr jones

Ethnicity is not a race!
First 4 books were great. Jumpstarted my interest in fantasy fiction. Jordan''s take on magic and how it is manipulated is the best I've seen.

After book four I started losing interest.

And I HATE Rand. Hate.
 

havokex

Member
Mat really is the best character imo. Even later when the books begin to draaaaag, Mat's chapters are always fun. He's the Indiana Jones / Han Solo of the books.

Perrin's were a close second for me until he got sidetracked for a while there.

Matt really came through in the latter books. After the whole dagger thing and paranoia, he was the most fun character out of the bunch
 

Stinkles

Clothed, sober, cooperative
OP if you're in a discovery phase for fantasy, once you've made it through your current read try the Thomas Covenant saga.


IF YOU LIKE
RAPISTS
.


J/k - read it when I was 15 and loved it. But what a way to set up a character's redemption (sort of) arc. Still makes me uncomfortable.
 
Glad you are enjoying it. I am currently listening to the series, and it cements the fact that overall this is my favourite fantasy series. While there are many flaws (some storylines definitely drag on), I think the world building is excellent. Certainly the places the characters visit and cultural quirks are much more fleshed out than in say Sword of Fire and Ice. And the magic system is certainly more interesting. There is also a lot of 'vibrancy' to this series, a lot of little details. For me it is the One Piece of fantasy, so it is no wonder that Veelk dislikes it.

The ending of the series is also strong, although I find Sanderson's writing somewhat weaker on a number of levels (mainly technical), but he does an excellent job overall.
 

Regiruler

Member
The worst part of the series is the middle section where it becomes hugely packed with characters and the pacing tends to become glacial. I'd power through those books and get to the ending which was written by Sanderson and did an amazing job of finishing off the series and tying up loose ends.

Let's not forget that Knife of Dreams was great and entirely Jordan.
It's so worth it for the finale. That epic final book....that was remarkable. I was literally shaking during the final battle.

Honestly, I thought 12 and 13 were better.
I forget which of the two had the really great battle between
Perrin and Slayer
. I know book 14 had a rematch but it wasn't as exciting.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom