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[StylishMGTOW]

Got a new job. Been getting a lot of female attention in said job, and there's this one particular woman that's showing interest. She's awesome, likes the same things as I do, and is just as awkward of a person as I am. Many things between us seem compatible; but, there's this very real feeling, I think, only men will feel when going into relationships with women: the feeling of needing to provide for her (and the hypothetical 'life' that you and her will build together), to always be at the top of my game when trying to swoon her, and overall, just giving your time and energy to building a future with her (sounds fucking exhausting). The thought fills me with a lot of energy (to being able to express my masculine traits to her), but also an overwhelming feeling of anxiety. The anxiety of responsibility adding weight to my life.

But then the realization came to me: I'm still technically single. The realization flushed the anxiety away from my system so fast. I love getting female attention, but the freedom is just so... peaceful.

Two questions for everyone on GAF:

1. Would you trade your freedom to provide for a woman and potentially raising a family with her?
2. I'm open to hearing people's experiences with relationships and whether the responsibility of being a provider is worth the squeeze?

Thanks for reading. I'm being intentionally vague here, so if it looks like I'm withholding information, it's because I am.

 

[NecrosaroIII]

Any relationship requires at least some forfeiture of personal freedom. It's not so bad if you find the right person. Not every person is looking to control your every thought and action. Of course you won't be able to whatever you want whenever you want, but the trade offs are great.

Why are you so concerned about "being a provider"? If you like this person, your only concern should be a)getting to know them and b) enjoying your time with them. All the other stuff you can figure out later. Don't take it so seriously.

 

[Dirk Benedict]

Got a new job. Been getting a lot of female attention in said job, and there's this one particular woman that's showing interest. She's awesome, likes the same things as I do, and is just as awkward of a person as I am. Many things between us seem compatible; but, there's this very real feeling, I think, only men will feel when going into relationships with women: the feeling of needing to provide for her (and the hypothetical 'life' that you and her will build together), to always be at the top of my game when trying to swoon her, and overall, just giving your time and energy to building a future with her (sounds fucking exhausting). The thought fills me with a lot of energy (to being able to express my masculine traits to her), but also an overwhelming feeling of anxiety. The anxiety of responsibility adding weight to my life.

But then the realization came to me: I'm still technically single. The realization flushed the anxiety away from my system so fast. I love getting female attention, but the freedom is just so... peaceful.

Two questions for everyone on GAF:

1. Would you trade your freedom to provide for a woman and potentially raising a family with her?
2. I'm open to hearing people's experiences with relationships and whether the responsibility of being a provider is worth the squeeze?

Thanks for reading. I'm being intentionally vague here, so if it looks like I'm withholding information, it's because I am.

I think if you like this Woman, you need to probe if she is willing to go the 50-50 Partnership Deal, or at the very least the 40-60... I am only really going to compromise on that. I no longer treat women like Princesses. I treat them like my Best friend(s), Lover(s) and Strong Partner(s)... Sadly I can only say this for my last relationship. The current one only uses me for sex, and I don't care. We're both using each other. I would call it a copacetic Friends with benefits relationship. You should attempt to find out if she is a Keeper. That will be in your own terms, however. Also, I'm about to cook, shower and a bunch of other shit, so I will come back to this tomorrow. I hope the best for you. I think if I married a Woman at this point, she would have proved herself to me, without even me asking or making it known. I am actively looking for a Keeper, but I'm not breaking my Neck over it.

Patience is still Virtue, imho...

 

[Dice]

Getting into a relationship isn’t very MGTOW.

 

[EviLore]

You’re overthinking things. Relationships are a core part of being human. Done right, it’s mutually beneficial.

 

[StylishMGTOW]

I'll be honest with everyone: I haven't been in a relationship in a long time (and not for a lack of trying). I've explored different viewpoints on women and relationships and took the ideas that I think are beneficial for me. Many of these viewpoints (case in point, my username) could be clouding my judgement in a negative way, but I'm willing to listen to you guys and get past the cognitive dissonance, if going back to a relationship is as beneficial as you guys say it is. I'm open-minded in that regard.

Any relationship requires at least some forfeiture of personal freedom. It's not so bad if you find the right person. Not every person is looking to control your every thought and action. Of course you won't be able to whatever you want whenever you want, but the trade offs are great.

Why are you so concerned about "being a provider"? If you like this person, your only concern should be a)getting to know them and b) enjoying your time with them. All the other stuff you can figure out later. Don't take it so seriously.

Would that be viable behaviour in the long term, though? It sounds nice on paper, but...

Would expand, but would like to hear your thoughts.

 

[Dice]

Okay I'll give a serious post.

I'm from the hood so I started doing piece work my dad brought home to get money for my family when I was 6 years old. Later when I was 12 I was a cook, 14yo painted houses, 16yo janitorial for a bank. I kept working all my life to help my family survive, my mom after my parents divorced, my aunt and cousin after another divorce. I never knew what it was for my efforts to return to me until I was 33. I don't regret it but it was a conscious sacrifice to ensure my family was alright. Took me about 5 years to really wrap my head around not providing for someone else. It just felt... incomplete.

Now I'll grant you that it is very peaceful living for yourself. I've taken quite a liking to it after many years where people just took and took and took. However, providing is a natural thing for a man. If you really care about someone, it will kick in just by instinct. It will feel right. A man wants to protect and provide for a woman he loves like a woman wants to care for a baby. That said, be aware this is just instinct. It has nothing to do with what is best for a relationship in a modern society, in context to the personality of your partner and each other's needs, and really isn't a duty until you make a solemn vow or have kids. The 1950s concept of a man handling all provision isn't backed by anything; not history, science, or reason.

For me, the thought of going back to a provider way of life appeals only within the context of them putting in just as much effort. I do not at all believe in babying women, especially in view of how our society is set up to allow each person to be independently capable and basically requires such teamwork for those who want a life together. Not to mention I'm getting older now, so sacrifices for someone else would be directly risking provision for/quality of my elderly years. I would need trust that they are serious and will not leech out of my future, but if I do find someone serious, all studies have shown it is better to face those later years with someone else.

That said, if you're getting all seriously minded like this with any woman, you won't end up with any woman. They don't like it when you're envisioning a future before they are. They'll consider you a simp and find someone more exciting about the here and now. Just take things a day at a time with where your relationship is actually substantiated and worry about your engagements with them long before any professions to/about them.

Would that be viable behaviour in the long term, though?

YES. Life is fake it till you make it and none the more than relationships. Thinking ahead of appreciating will absolutely destroy attraction and blind you to the reality of where you are actually at with them.

 

[Puscifer]

You’re overthinking things. Relationships are a core part of being human. Done right, it’s mutually beneficial.

I have to agree with you here.


After my divorce I honestly didn't know if/when I could ever open my heart and again and I'm pretty confident to say that the man I'm with now is pretty much my best friend. I didn't get it when I saw it on King of the Hill of all shows, but I do now and I just want to say that I wish everyone has a chance to experience this, and most importantly just like I did, naturally and without the Internet.

Also, babe, I know you figured out I use Puscifer as my username on here as my favorite band so if you see me shitposting and talking positively I love you lol

 

[StylishMGTOW]

Okay I'll give a serious post.

I'm from the hood so I started doing piece work my dad brought home to get money for my family when I was 6 years old. Later when I was 12 I was a cook, 14yo painted houses, 16yo janitorial for a bank. I kept working all my life to help my family survive, my mom after my parents divorced, my aunt and cousin after another divorce. I never knew what it was for my efforts to return to me until I was 33. I don't regret it but it was a conscious sacrifice to ensure my family was alright. Took me about 5 years to really wrap my head around not providing for someone else. It just felt... incomplete.

Now I'll grant you that it is very peaceful living for yourself. I've taken quite a liking to it after many years where people just took and took and took. However, providing is a natural thing for a man. If you really care about someone, it will kick in just by instinct. It will feel right. A man wants to protect and provide for a woman he loves like a woman wants to care for a baby. That said, be aware this is just instinct. It has nothing to do with what is best for a relationship in a modern society, in context to the personality of your partner and each other's needs, and really isn't a duty until you make a solemn vow or have kids. The 1950s concept of a man handling all provision isn't backed by anything; not history, science, or reason.

For me, the thought of going back to a provider way of life appeals only within the context of them putting in just as much effort. I do not at all believe in babying women, especially in view of how our society is set up to allow each person to be independently capable and basically requires such teamwork for those who want a life together. Not to mention I'm getting older now, so sacrifices for someone else would be directly risking provision for/quality of my elderly years. I would need trust that they are serious and will not leech out of my future, but if I do find someone serious, all studies have shown it is better to face those later years with someone else.

That said, if you're getting all seriously minded like this with any woman, you won't end up with any woman. They don't like it when you're envisioning a future before they are. They'll consider you a simp and find someone more exciting about the here and now. Just take things a day at a time with where your relationship is actually substantiated and worry about your engagements with them long before any professions to/about them.


YES. Life is fake it till you make it and none the more than relationships. Thinking ahead of appreciating will absolutely destroy attraction and blind you to the reality of where you are actually at with them.

Sound advice, thank you. Really resonated with the provider part you outlined. As I get older, I find myself wanting to do just that for someone special.

Also, I'm not outwardly expressing these thoughts with her, if at all. I know that it's not a good thing to talk about with her, especially since I just met the bitch.

The point I was getting at with that question is that: what would you guys do in case the relationship is going south? It can be as basic as it can be, all I want to know is if it works. I would like to prepare for any contingencies.

 

[bitbydeath]

You’re not only overthinking it but also coming off as trying too hard. You just do everything one day at a time. You should ask her out, and get to know her. You might even find she isn’t clicking, and there is nothing wrong with that, then you move on.

It’s far too early to be thinking about the finish line when you haven’t even lined up for a race.

 

[StylishMGTOW]

You’re not only overthinking it but also coming off as trying too hard. You just do everything one day at a time. You should ask her out, and get to know her. You might even find she isn’t clicking, and there is nothing wrong with that, then you move on.

It’s far too early to be thinking about the finish line when you haven’t even lined up for a race.

I appreciate that observation. IRL, I don't try to come off as needy or try hard, as you say, but since I have no one to talk about this with, I'm just letting the floodgates open with this thread.

 

[Nobody_Important]

I'm kind of in the same boat. I got of a toxic relationship last year and have found myself hesitant to jump back in thanks to the relative freedom it has given me. I have been mainly sticking to light dating and Tinder. Nothing serious. Just a few flings over the past year. Anytime I see relationships forming or that could be formed I immediately go back to that toxic relationship and it gives me pause every time. I guess that is just what happens when you end up with a crazy ex. You are afraid to get yourself back into the same drama again.


It doesn't really help that the modern world makes it VERY easy to be basically single and still scratch your various itches. All the freedom and perks without any of the commitment. So I end up overthinking everything in the end. Pretty sure that is just a me thing though.

 

[NightmareFarm]

I have never cared about wanting a relationship either. Its not worth jumping through all those hoops and sacrificing so much. I enjoy the freedom of being single.

 

[SJRB]

The mission is to find a partner that respects your life preferences as much as you do. So as a very basic example: if you enjoy playing videogames after a long day of work, don't settle in with someone who hates that you play videogames. If you hate doing social things, don't settle in with someone who wants to go out or have friends over five nights a week.

Do not start a relationship with someone who expects you to change who you are, and vice versa. Respect each other equally, and stay truthful to yourself, always.

 

[thief183]

You don't need to provide for her, you do it if you want, it is written nowhere that you should.

 

[Werewolf Jones]

Everyone cheats so you'll be good.

 

[FunkMiller]

You’re overthinking things. Relationships are a core part of being human. Done right, it’s mutually beneficial.

Should be the beginning and end of thread, really.

OP, nobody can give you specific advice about your situation, because everybody’s situation is unique. But fundamentally, relationships depend on mutual respect, mutual emotion and mutual attitude. The key is to understand when you have that balance, and when you don’t.

Anyone telling you relationships are always bad are people who have never achieved that balance. Know when to walk away, and know when to stay. Treat her with respect, and expect the same back to you. Do that, and you’ll find the right relationship.

 

[StueyDuck]

You are way overthinking everything.

Also don't shit where you eat, especially if you having all these thoughts

 

[Cyberpunkd]

Been getting a lot of female attention in said job, and there's this one particular woman that's showing interest.

Stop it. Right now. Do not shit where you eat.

On the relationship part:
+ You get sex often
+ You get to experience things in life that are only possible while in a committed relationship
- You stress more
- You are judged by someone
- You cannot be 100% egoist you were before

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

Don't do it. All that money wasted on these hoes could be better spent on PlayStation

 

[Rentahamster]

Many of these viewpoints (case in point, my username) could be clouding my judgement in a negative way, but I'm willing to listen to you guys and get past the cognitive dissonance

It probably is.

Just enjoy spending time with another person who shares the same interests as you. Your preconceived notions of what a relationship "should" be are the imaginations of someone who has never been in a normal, functional, healthy one. It's not based on personal data.

You learn by doing.

 

[stn]

Don't screw around at work. I work as an employment lawyer and I can't tell you how many workplace sexual harassment cases I've had in the past. And they typically settle for very good money.

 

[AJUMP23]

1. Would you trade your freedom to provide for a woman and potentially raising a family with her?

This is a bad way to look at it. It isn't a trade of freedom, a relationship is not a jail sentence or a trap or some sort ball and chain. It is a relationship full of shared experience and love and struggle and work and giving and kindness. Men are particularly happier and more successful financially when they are married. you are working together for common goals.

1. I'm open to hearing people's experiences with relationships and whether the responsibility of being a provider is worth the squeeze?

A spouse provides as much benefit to you as you provide income for the family.

 

[NickFire]

If you don’t want kids stay single unless she makes a lot more than you.

 

[22:22:22]

Same here. Different reasons.

They have to really be in tune with me if it'll work. Then again, maintaining 6 women is quite the challenge.

But hey. 6 women.

 

[22:22:22]

1This is a bad way to look at it. It isn't a trade of freedom, a relationship is not a jail sentence or a trap or some sort ball and chain.

 

[AJUMP23]

I like this Gif.....

 

[22:22:22]

I like this Gif.....

I agree with your previous post.

 

[AJUMP23]

I agree with your previous post.

The Validation I seek.


I know you would because it is wisdom, conveyed simply. Perspective is a great thing in life. A mild change in it, will help.

 

[SteadyEvo]

I’ve been in a relationship for 15 years. I’d choose freedom and being single everyday of the week. It’s not worth the financial and emotional stress. Add kids into the equation and shit gets 10x harder.

Stay single and enjoy your free time. Unless she’s filthy rich and can handle her shit and help with yours, RUN! RUN!

 

[22:22:22]

Ehh I wouldn't mind.

Having a harem means I'm their master.

No stress.

 

[Reizo Ryuu]

relationships are fine if it evolves into that naturally, or in other words you're also actually really good friends beforehand, so just get to know her without doing all this overthinking nonsense.

 

[Woggleman]

Find a woman that doesn't need to be provided for and I am not talking about some misandrist who talks about how she doesn't heed men. This is 2023 so stop caring about gender roles. Also never try and conform to what you think women want because it changes by the hour.

Find a woman who fits into your life as well who actually wants a real partnership.

 

[Mistake]

You can't go through this world alone op, no matter how much society tries to convince you otherwise. Physically, emotionally, financially, things just happen, and it's a lot easier when someone tags along. Most relationships will be messy until you hit the year mark.

That being said, who else is going to see your bare ass laid out in a hospital bed?

 

[Halo is Back]

Like everyone else said, you are overthinking things and most modern relationship dynamics are not solely revolved around the man being the sole provider. You are jumping ahead of yourself. Fisrt start with the dating phase and take it from there. Why don't you ask yourself more specifically, what you are looking for?

Any real relationship will require some sacrifice and forfeit of your personal time. Being in a committed relationship requires work, good communication, and cooperation to make it last.

 

[Days like these...]

You might have avoidant personality disorder

 

[Dutchy]

I feel as if too many people nowadays are forcefully trying to fulfill their own idea of an 'ideal and contributing member of society'. Get a good job before 18, get a car before 21, get married before 25.

Don't forget, it's your decision and your desires. Do whatever makes you happy. And getting into a relationship at this very moment does not seem like something you're genuinely ready for or interested in so I'm not sure why you should even bother.

On the flipside, you might find yourself get even more female attraction when you're very sturdy about being single. That's what always happened to me. Could give you a good position in terms of feeling what it's like to be close(r) to someone without it being anything official. Just make sure you make your intentions very clear to avoid any miscommunication.

 

[INC]

Hit it and quit it

 

[GutsOfThor]

Don't shit where you eat OP. Just do your job and go home. Plenty of women outside your work.

 

[Mistake]

The hot nurses?

Some things require additional home care. Hospitals are expensive

 

[Tomeru]

You’re overthinking things. Relationships are a core part of being human. Done right, it’s mutually beneficial.

Overthinking is an understatement.

Just do it

 

[Dirk Benedict]

Don't do it. All that money wasted on these hoes could be better spent on PlayStation

 

[22:22:22]

You might have avoidant personality disorder

No. That's called common sense. Most people are weird af.

 

[lachesis]

Probably different from person to person, but having a boundary for your needs is important too. After a painful divorce ending 15yr marriage - I felt very much spent. Mentally, especially. Took many years to recover - 7 yrs of voluntary celibacy - and currently dating someone who’s 11 yrs younger now.

The other night, she told me that she wants to move in, but I refused. Been dating 5 months. Not that I can’t- but I need my own space and quiet moments during week days… otherwise I can see myself burning out. She got mad, of course, but that is my current boundary. Plus, I take care of my a super sensitive teen kid 50% of times, and I just don’t want too much of complications between them… as my current gf is often very emotional…so I told her until my kid goes to college, I cant.

I’d say just start and see where it goes. Just know what you want... Also acknowledge her needs too - and provide within your capacity - as love, most often is about giving.

But certain things, if it’s really out of your comfort zone, it’s okay to set your boundary. If she is the right person for you, she will respect it.

 

[sono]

I think you are saying the women you like works with you. So work isn’t ideal location particularly if things don’t go the way you might wish. Sorry to be boring

 

[DonkeyPunchJr]

Taking on bigger responsibilities and living for more than just yourself are how you find meaning and purpose in your life. It’s not easy and it’s not always fun, but I think this is what causes you to become a fully realized man. You really think when you’re 50 you’ll look back like “I’m lonely and I got no family but at least I got to play so many video games!”

That said…
1. Just chill out and take things one step at a time. The reason you date someone is for fun and companionship and to find out if EVENTUALLY you really want to settle down with this person. What would you think of a girl if, before you even went out on a date, she told you “I really like you and I think we’re so compatible but I’m not sure if I’m ready to get married and start having your babies and give up all my freedom and…”

2. Be very, very careful about dating someone you work with. TBH it can work (I work at a company where there are many husband/wife duos who met on the job). But you really have to be an absolute class act and always take the high road, and if she ends up being a psycho then you’re fucked no matter what. (I also worked with one husband/wife duo where the wife cheated with another guy at the company and all 3 of them are gone now). Tread carefully.

 

[Mossybrew]

The MGTOW guy has anxiety about a potential relationship that exists almost entirely in his head. Yeah, that tracks.

 

[Tams]

Overthinking: the biggest cockblocker.

The fuck you doing OP? Ask her out for coffee. FFS.

And you don't have to be the sole or main provider. It's not the fucking 1950s.

 

[German Hops]

 

[Randall365]

Me too - and I’ve been married for ten years and have two kids. It only gets worse.