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It seems like gaming is under seige by white supremacists

White people have had quite some time since slavery to correct the fundamental problems in this country.

Instead, you elected Donald Trump.

63 million votes.

If your response is to clarify that not all 63 million votes were by white people, then you are a part of the problem.

I don't know what a solution to our issues looks like, but I don't think we're getting closer to it. At the end of the day, the vast majority of the people from whom action is required to effect change simply don't perceive enough of an issue to warrant the necessary effort. You just stick your head in the sand, and maybe participate in meaningless debates on forums about free speech and how "all lives matter."
 

Forward

Member
The prevailing thought around that time was to avoid upsetting cash flow. Publishers and marketing departments understand that there's a portion of their consumer base that is hateful, disruptive, and loud, and feel that base is large enough to make a financial impact.

This is what people need to understand. The games industry at large is ok with hatred as long as those people provide profit

Corporations, by and large, are OK with hatred as long as it does not interfere with their cash flow. Bonus points if it increases their cash flow.

Corporations are not the friends of humanity.
 

Fisty

Member
Back in the day, it was a pretty shitty place.

Now, everybody and their uncle Remus has a social media platform to broadcast their 3rd-grade-level political and social opinions.

Same, but different. But still the same.
 

RinsFury

Member
Great post, a lot to absorb. As far as online gaming goes, racism and white supremacy has been a part of the culture for as long as I can remember. My first introduction to it was playing on PC in the mid 90's, and it only got worse once online gaming went mainstream with the Xbox and PS2. I refuse to play online with a headset and mic because of that toxic bullshit. Of course racist hubs like 4chan helped breed that behavior to new heights, and with one of their own actually elected President they're louder than ever.
 

Lime

Member
People should start supporting people of color working and writing in games culture. Places like NYM gamer, spawnonme, gaminglooksgood, BGN, simplyundrea,ineeddiversegames, blackgamedevs, and soooo many other cool and refreshing people.

(White) Gamers also need to take a stand and say no to the bullshit they experience
 

jabuseika

Member
It's not just gaming, but the anonymity part of it helps those that wish to spew their hate.

Anonymity of communication online will need to be removed before you can fight this.

The real world has consequences for being hateful. The online world doesn't. And all the hatemongers get to live their fantasies, and with that trash our gaming spaces.
 
Or devs, publishers and platform holders could stop being fucking cowards for once and do their part. I'm tired of fucking being expected to be the educator and the punching bag. Not doing it anymore. They never take any fucking responsibility and they are the number one reason this is even a thing.

Campo Santo has earned a huge amount of respect from me, I really appreciate decent people like them stepping up.

Overall you are right. This is a cowardly business. Devs and pubs hide while decent people who buy their products are exposed to abuse from some of the most vile creatures on the planet.
 
Lately, they've been able to find real allies in gaming youtube 'celebrities' who have looked to promote themselves through any means by providing an audience of people willing to lap up anything that conforms to their new world view. This has allowed them to quietly slip in people who actually hold hateful ideas and dress them up as just another friendly gaming youtube let's-player or commentator, thus reaching an even wider audience. Now that they have a younger audience who's been brainwashed to their ideas, some these people have started to grow up and gone out into the real world where they can start to slowly slip their ideas and symbols into other areas; in particular gamers who decide to make games themselves.
Could we get some names of the youtubers that are encouraging white supremacy or is it just Pewdiepie? He seems more like a manchild/massive idiot than a white supremacist imo.

You bring up a lot of valid points OP but what is the solution to all of this?
 

Mahonay

Banned
does anything actually happen in Battlefield 1 if i report confederate flags as offensive icons?
They do actually follow up on it. They removed my dickbutt avatar after someone reported me and informed me of my first offense.

I always report any Nazi/Confederate symbols I see. They make it pretty easy to do.
Yup, you'd think Neogaf would be a safe haven from it due to the heavy mods monitoring but it still filters in like a fart filters through thick jeans
Lol.
 

lawnchair

Banned
They so actually follow up on it. They removed my dickbutt avatar after someone reported me and informed me of my first offense.

I always report any Nazi/Confederate symbols I see. They make it pretty easy to do.

Lol.

good to know. its pretty nauseating to see it as often as i do.
 

Bastables

Member
Could we get some names of the youtubers that are encouraging white supremacy or is it just Pewdiepie? He seems more like a manchild/massive idiot than a white supremacist imo.

You bring up a lot of valid points OP but what is the solution to all of this?
You found out about predispose without the op mentioning him, I'm sure you can use the Internet to answer your own derailment question.
 

Nickle

Cool Facts: Game of War has been a hit since July 2013
You guys always make it sound like the alt right are some organization of masterminds that are using internet espionage to turn people to their side. In reality, it's a bunch of teenagers posting memes on social media sites.
 
You guys always make it sound like the alt right are some organization of masterminds that are using internet espionage to turn people to their side. In reality, it's a bunch of teenagers posting memes on social media sites.

We have numerous videos, photographs, and articles showing grown men involved.

You shouldn't be so dismissive. Also, it's not just about the alt-right, but also the less overt and more entrenched institutions.
 

Hesh

Member
They didn't infiltrate anything, they've been there all along.

The current social and political climates just gave them an open door to share their racism with the world without much perceived consequence.

One and done. They were in the shadows and the unscrupulous parts of the internet for the past 15 or so years and they gradually realized that there was no consequence for their actions/words and so here we are today.
 

brian!

Member
Gaming is ripe as a platform for these ppl, i agree.
Particularly scary during this widespread twitch, youtube, internet celebrity era
 

IrishNinja

Member
they're everywehre, and they're emboldened, yeah. don't they recruit in online gaming too? the language you hear, it's not that surprsing

related: the notion that "you can't fight the internet" so you should just expect racial epithets in online gaming has some strong venn diagram bleed into rape culture mentality i figure

Man look

The more we make ourselves heard, the louder they get in response. The damn president is a white supremacist so you know it's going to be insane for a good long while
[

exactly this
 
I blame bad moderation everywhere and coward, money hungry companies that harbored this scum to avoid income loses.

I doubt it's impossible to make detectable slur algorithms for voice communication in games, to automatically ban aggresive players or put a sanction on this kind of behaviour, but hey, as much as they blame "SJW" for being outraged they are the first to clutch their pearls when something affects them directly.

The lack of a clear youtube statement in the pdp issues is such a worrying sign, in tv he would have been immediately fired and shamed, but gaming as a medium is still considered childish (of course, if it constantly features this shitty manchilds).
 
I made a quick edit in the OP to hopefully clarify my position here. I know that racism in video games has been around forever. Game companies created an environment that actively encourages racism to thrive and have been doing so since back in the 80's and especially 90's. The point is that this atmosphere has left the door wide open for people who actively support white supremacist ideology to push their way into the scene and start utilizing this atmosphere for their own purposes.

Could we get some names of the youtubers that are encouraging white supremacy or is it just Pewdiepie? He seems more like a manchild/massive idiot than a white supremacist imo.

You bring up a lot of valid points OP but what is the solution to all of this?

I don't know enough about all the youtubers out there to be completely certain, but the problem is that it's increasingly hard to tell who's the outright white supremacist and who's just caping for alt-right ideals just to get views. The big issue is that some of the biggest names on youtube (H3H3, Jontron, PDP, countless numbers of streamers, etc.) have been promoting very terrible viewpoints that normalize that kind of shit allowing people with an agenda right in through the front door. It starts with "SJW ARE ALL CUCKED" and eventually leads to people being much more open to showing up to something like the Charlottesville rally and their 'stand against the liberal elite'.
 

Nev

Banned
Thank god I don't care about online games or 'professional' outlets anymore, much less about those trashy non-stories from youtube pseudo-celebrities.

All this juvenile drama and discriminatory garbage from mentally handicapped manchildren and actual uneducated kids couldn't make me hope for a zombie apocalypse more.

Thankfully I can still play my single player games and enjoy my hobby without having to put up with all of this troglodyte crap.

As an observation based on the OP, this whole sudden surge of hate must really be an american thing with trump and all, I haven't noticed a difference myself.

Reading nigger, faggot, jew, autist, get cancer and hope all your family dies just like four years ago in your usual LoL match.

Gaming has always been infested with shitty people. I just don't give them the power to ruin my experience.
 
You guys always make it sound like the alt right are some organization of masterminds that are using internet espionage to turn people to their side. In reality, it's a bunch of teenagers posting memes on social media sites.

That's factually untrue. They've been working in the shadows on places like Stormfront, 4chan, 8chan, irc rooms... I mean, Breitbart is literally an alt-right organization that's pushing for white supremacist values with major financial, political, and popular support.

Yes there are a lot of idiots who just bumble around, but actual concerted efforts exist and have been majorly successful in recent times. We're talking years of working behind the scenes for everything we're seeing today.
 

Shaanyboi

Banned
Thank god I don't care about online games or 'professional' outlets anymore, much less about those trashy non-stories from youtube pseudo-celebrities.

All this juvenile drama and discriminatory garbage from mentally handicapped manchildren and actual uneducated kids couldn't make me hope for a zombie apocalypse more.

Thankfully I can still play my single player games and enjoy my hobby without having to put up with all of this troglodyte crap.

As an observation based on the OP, this whole sudden surge of hate must really be an american thing with trump and all, I haven't noticed a difference myself.

Reading nigger, faggot, jew, autist, get cancer and hope all your family dies just like four years ago in your usual LoL match.

Gaming has always been infested with shitty people. I just don't give them the power to ruin my experience.
Just because you put your head in the sand doesn't make this shit go away, and it doesn't stop these attitudes from spreading
 

brian!

Member
Id also add that it's not just alt-right dispassionately using video games as a platform for themselves but that historically as a medium it has been a safe space for white supremacist rhetoric. This isn't just about alt-right strategy, it's about video game culture, the type of ppl it attracts and the type of lifestyle it accomadates, and how it's evolving towards being a cultivator for these types of ideas.

The #1 youtube channel is a gamer w/ very young ppl devoted to him, where the devotion puts them in a position of blindly defending some fucked up shit, like that is an unthinkable amount of ppl who feel like they have to defend this guy for the things he does because they enjoy his videos, and that criticism against this thing they love is a criticism against them personally, my body legit aches when i think about this. Like this guy or games they like is a core part of their identity and self, jesus christ
 

brian!

Member
They dont have to win shit, they literally just need popular gaming figureheads to normalize fucked up bullshit just like it has been done forever in multiplayer games
 

MKIL65

Member
Well, yeah. Pushing for more inclusivity is the equivalent of waving kryptonite in their face.

Of course they are gonna be mad!
 

nnarum

Member
When you just go private chat or discord with your friends online gaming is great. There will always be idiots online due to anonymity. I don't think this is exclusive to gaming though.
 

Nev

Banned
Just because you put your head in the sand doesn't make this shit go away, and it doesn't stop these attitudes from spreading

I don't put my head in the sand, I religiously report these people and move on until the system tells me they've been banned.

What I'm not going to do is stop enjoying my Dark Souls singleplayer playthrough because some no life basement dweller uploaded a shitty racist meme in some 4chan hellhole.

Giving them clicks and the visibility they crave is sure going to help more.
 

Trup1aya

Member
probably late as hell, but white supremacy isn't on the attack any more today than it was a century ago. They just got covert for a while, and now they feel emboldened.
 

Nev

Banned
Exposing them is a better solution.

Exposing them to what? To whom? There is not an internet police and they're not bound by any rules because they hide behind their screens.

The best way to counter them is to not give them attention.

I wasn't even aware of the existence of that stupid we wuz kings meme until someone referenced the memers here.

The more attention you give them the bigger they feel. They feed on outrages.

You read someone being discriminatory in a game? Mute, report and bye. Do we really need to rescue the dont feed the troll .jpg after all these years?
 

brian!

Member
Imo in the end it's not meaningful to expose or indict ppl using games as a platform for their fucked up ideas of the world, like what do you expect when you give them such a great platform to perform with and a great audience to perform to. Honestly, it's prob too late and video game culture is prob too far along (i have no basis for this, it's just a feeling), but i think the most important thing here is the complicitness of vg corps and how this culture they were key in creating could have been managed more responsibly. But i mean youll kinda get into a whole bunch of different things here...

I dunno i mean it's obviously a whole bunch of things coalescing that no one person can control, but yeah i agree wholeheartedly that there is great potential for the alt-right in this stage of gaming's life.
 
What about filter through text chat in all online games (and sites like twitch...)? Put in all the bullshit these people say, and even put in ways so they can't bypass it. And when the system catches people doing it, mute/ban them automatically. I don't know how you solve voice chat though, maybe sometime in the future there can be ways to do the same type of concept. Obviously this is just one part of the issue, but it's an immediate way to punish them, regarding online interaction.
Racist people will start using euphemisms, meanwhile people who want to call them out won't be able to address them directly. The filtering tech isn't there yet.

Sorry for double posting. I'm using GAF mobile.
 

greycolumbus

The success of others absolutely infuriates me.
You guys always make it sound like the alt right are some organization of masterminds that are using internet espionage to turn people to their side. In reality, it's a bunch of teenagers posting memes on social media sites.

I wouldn't call these people masterminds, but they clearly manipulated situations and fostered sentiments. Bannon is quoted alluding to this.

It's not a coincidence that Milo Yiannopoulos went from mocking gamers to covering gamergate religiously.

Gatory folks weren't unfamiliar with rapid organizing, campaigning, and signal boosting. That's been a thing with the seedier internet types since forever and the truth is that a lot of it comes down to shitposting and forced memes.

I think it sounds more complex than it actually is. You probably really only need a couple of literal shills to get the carnival of stupid going. The term "useful idiot" comes to mind.
 
I feel like platform holders and publishers have to do more to address the issue, but all they care about is money. Half the gaming community is an absolute shitshow and their unwillingness to address is equivalent to tacit support IMO. If I can turn my console on with my voice then why the fuck can't platform holders auto flag racist, homophobic, threatening communication online. It's 2017. You're gonna tell me you can invent VR and AR but can't figure if a 13-year-old dropped the n-word. Man the fuck up. Each day it goes unchecked the more I get disillusioned and embarassed by my hobby. Moderate your shit FFS.
 

Puru

Member
One side decided to use videogames as a way to promote their views and attract more people to their cause leading to the other side to retaliate and do the same.
 

Ozigizo

Member
Exposing them to what? To whom? There is not an internet police and they're not bound by any rules because they hide behind their screens.

The best way to counter them is to not give them attention.

I wasn't even aware of the existence of that stupid we wuz kings meme until someone referenced the memers here.

The more attention you give them the bigger they feel. They feed on outrages.

You read someone being discriminatory in a game? Mute, report and bye. Do we really need to rescue the dont feed the troll .jpg after all these years?

Just lol. If you want to put your head in the sand, you do you.

Your "just ignore them" method doesn't work, and it's been proven ineffective continually.
 

brian!

Member
I feel like platform holders and publishers have to do more to address the issue, but all they care about is money. Half the gaming community is an absolute shitshow and their unwillingness to address is equivalent to tacit support IMO. If I can turn my console on with my voice then why the fuck can't platform holders auto flag racist, homophobic, threatening communication online. It's 2017. You're gonna tell me you can invent VR and AR but can't figure if a 13-year-old dropped the n-word. Man the fuck up. Each day it goes unchecked the more I get disillusioned and embarassed by my hobby. Moderate your shit FFS.

Agreed, and at this point it feels too late, with the consumer often rabidly dictating things to the producer.
 

Crosseyes

Banned
Exposing them to what? To whom? There is not an internet police and they're not bound by any rules because they hide behind their screens.

The best way to counter them is to not give them attention.

I wasn't even aware of the existence of that stupid we wuz kings meme until someone referenced the memers here.

The more attention you give them the bigger they feel. They feed on outrages.

You read someone being discriminatory in a game? Mute, report and bye. Do we really need to rescue the dont feed the troll .jpg after all these years?
It's not enough to just ignore.

What we have to do is push developers and publishers themselves to purge the white supremacists from playing their games altogether. DMCA takedowns, account bans to revoke access to purchased libraries... We must hurt these people once they expose themselves.

There are no unjust means to fight back against this sort of evil and if the game industry wants to stop from going down the path of becoming a haven for white supremacy, sexism, and other similar evils it's gonna be on them to take a stand.
 
One side decided to use videogames as a way to promote their views and attract more people to their cause leading to the other side to retaliate and do the same.

Could you elaborate?

Some exemple of video games used to promote views from both side?
 
I think it's less of a deliberate attempt to target gamers and more that the typical gamer demographic was one most liable to falling for far right sentiment.

White, working or lower middle class, either too young to have much experience of the world or older and unemployed/precariously employed. These people make up a good portion of the gaming community and when you through in the macho and competitive elements that gaming encourages then you have 1) a group of people who feel their opportunities in life are less than they should be 2) feel somewhat isolated from society in their passion for video games 3) through video games seek to improve their self worth through displays of dominance over others.

They're sitting ducks really.

I do agree that we could and should all do what we can to dissuade other gamers from those paths but the issue is that the way the comfortable middle class educated liberal community does that right now is more or less through pointing the finger and calling these people disgusting monsters and demanding their stop being disgusting and monstrous immediately.

Far right politics is disgusting and monstrous but when it becomes popular amongst a mass of people it's not because they are inherently evil and therefore naturally drawn to it, they are people like you and I but in a different situation in life with different exposures.

Have as little sympathy for them as you like, and I know most of you have absolutely none, but understand that this approach is counter productive to our cause. These people see you as 1) ignoring the issues that are affecting their real lives and 2) dismissing them as monsters, all that does is drive them further into the hands of what they begin to feel is a fraternity with the more ideological far right veterans.

There is only one solution to the rise of the far right generally and that is to address the demise of the left. What we call "liberal" politics has for decades accepted as inevitable economic models that were previously unthinkably plutocratic and which are responsible for the genuine struggles many far right-curious people have, it really doesn't matter to them that you are comfortable in life and should therefore accept the status quo, they are not comfortable and therefore they will oppose that status quo: the question is on what grounds, on social issues like race and gender and sexuality? Or on economic issues like inequality?

The latter has been systematically driven out of popular consciousness in most of the developed world and so there is a huge hole left open for the far right to fill unimpeded.

Come to terms with inequality at its core and offer Jesé people alternatives instead of labeling them as either retarded or evil and hoping they will agree and obediently shut up.
 

A major problem I have with this assertion which people have been trying to attribute to Trumps rise is that we're not talking about middle-aged coal miners who have been unemployed for years. These gamers are usually young adults, often kids from more affluent families. They have the opportunity to sit around in their parent's basement coasting on their resources. I don't see them as having much thought about economic conditions, or anything really long-term. They're obsessed with the now, as most young people are. In general, they seem to be very focused towards identity issues (Masculinity, power dynamics, etc.).

It mostly comes down to social standing in general and them feeling that others have shunned them to the fringes of society for what they see as unfair reasons. They use that as the sole reason to lash back against others. They desperately want a win and they get feelings of victory through bullying tactics and putting themselves above others. It's sort of along the lines of that famous quote, "If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you." Except in this case, instead of money, it's their morals they're willing to give up.
 
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