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I've finished Star Trek Deep Space 9. What an amazing series

NecrosaroIII

Ask me about my terrible takes on Star Trek characters
I've heard good things about DS9 for a while but never saw it until recently. Started watching it back in March. Just finished. I'm going to check out the documentary sometime soon.

Top 5 Episodes

1- The Visitor (Tony Todd was amazing in this episode)
2 - Children of Time.
3 - In the Pale Moonlight
4 - Past Tense
5 - The Siege of AR-558

Honorable Mention to Far Beyond the Stars.

Such a great cast too. Very well written cast, it's amazing what they did here. Every character, even minor side characters are given so much depth. Even characters that I initially disliked, like Bashir and Kira grew into deep characters. Hell, fucking NOG grew up to be fucking amazing. What a bud.

Is this the best Star Trek? I dunno. Maybe? I haven't seen them all. It's better than TNG, which is also good. But I haven't seen Voyager. I haven't seen Enterprise.


Sisko is the shit though.
 

-Arcadia-

Banned
I feel like it takes forever to be good, though. It was worth it, don't get me wrong, but I don't think I've ever been able to describe a TV experience as 'grinding to get to the good part' before.

We're talking many years of episodes before all the critically acclaimed stuff starts.
 
F

Foamy

Unconfirmed Member
Best moment was first time the station was surrounded by a fleet and you thought they were gonna get pasted. Then they unveiled the station "upgrades".
 

Happosai

Hold onto your panties
I've heard good things about DS9 for a while but never saw it until recently. Started watching it back in March. Just finished. I'm going to check out the documentary sometime soon.

Top 5 Episodes

1- The Visitor (Tony Todd was amazing in this episode)
2 - Children of Time.
3 - In the Pale Moonlight
4 - Past Tense
5 - The Siege of AR-558

Honorable Mention to Far Beyond the Stars.

Such a great cast too. Very well written cast, it's amazing what they did here. Every character, even minor side characters are given so much depth. Even characters that I initially disliked, like Bashir and Kira grew into deep characters. Hell, fucking NOG grew up to be fucking amazing. What a bud.

Is this the best Star Trek? I dunno. Maybe? I haven't seen them all. It's better than TNG, which is also good. But I haven't seen Voyager. I haven't seen Enterprise.


Sisko is the shit though.
I wouldn't put it better than TNG but it's better than Enterprise. Reading the OP reminds me that I have a huge OP of Sci-fi TV series from the 80's-90's I'd like to get back to.
 

Nico_D

Member
I would like to rewatch it someday, it was a great series - but it also had a lot of padding and weak and plain bad episodes, particularly in the first two seasons.

Bashir's and O'Brian's friendship is excellent. Garak is excellent and the Klingons are the best they have ever been in any Trek.

Guilty pleasure: I think The Magnificent Ferengi is an absolutely hilarious episode.

DS9 and TNG did everything there is in Star Trek. None of the shows before or after have managed that.
 

Thaedolus

Member
I feel like it takes forever to be good, though. It was worth it, don't get me wrong, but I don't think I've ever been able to describe a TV experience as 'grinding to get to the good part' before.

We're talking many years of episodes before all the critically acclaimed stuff starts.

You’re not totally wrong but I believe Into the Pale Moonlight is Season 1
 

Thaedolus

Member
wtf episode am I thinking of? The one where the Cardassian was faking his name? I must have the episode title wrong
 
It’s the best Star Trek back a mile. Every few years I go back and watch it all. Generally skip most of s1 though as it’s Abit rough.

best characters and it’s hilarious.
 

highrider

Banned
I thought it was well done, but I never particularly connected with or liked any of the characters. Odo was by far the most interesting, my dad went to school with the actor that plays him.
 

Yoshi

Headmaster of Console Warrior Jugendstrafanstalt
Into the Pale Moonlight in season 1? Oh my!

-Arcadia- -Arcadia- I used to agree in regards to the long investment until Deep Space Nine gets brilliant, but upon rewatching it with my wife, I noticed that the earlier episodes are also pretty neat after knowing the characters some. I think the rather unsmypathetic characters and their many individual flaws make it a hard watch at first, but once you get to appreciate how these characters work in the scope of the series and get to enjoy their depth, earlier character-oriented episodes win a lot, too.
 
Imo, DS9 is the superior Star Trek show. Everyone had chemistry. It felt like you were an observer and not watching the television. They talked about a lot of deep issues that TNG Thought it was too good for.

Decent list of top eps OP.
 

DunDunDunpachi

Patient MembeR
I feel like it takes forever to be good, though. It was worth it, don't get me wrong, but I don't think I've ever been able to describe a TV experience as 'grinding to get to the good part' before.

We're talking many years of episodes before all the critically acclaimed stuff starts.
Yeppp season 3 is when things really "begin".

Another flaw of the show is how jocular all the conversations are and how Mary Sue all the characters are. There is no sense of running a crew / respect for hierarchy / seriousness, and there's no sense of growth as the seasons go on. Sisko in particular is really hard to read. He's has the artistic freewheeling personality of Riker but also bites people's heads off when in command. Unlike Picard (whose anger and standoffishness were treated as flaws) Sisko never runs into trouble by acting this way. Even Sisko's son, Jake, is a bright-eyed kid with no real flaws and gets hot dabo girls without trying.

Every character is too smart for their own good but also suffers from basic social awkwardness / problems. The show becomes a social drama. Sometimes the social drama is exceptional and pays off in big ways. Nog's story arc, Garak's story arc, Odo's story arc, and Major Kira's story arc are each some of the best-written stories in all of the Star Trek I've watched over the years, but the rest is fluff with no sci-fi meat on the bones.

As a show about how familiar alien species interact with one another on a hostly-contested port island space base? DS9 is excellent. As a show about Starfleet and exploring the galaxy and resolving conflicts via the Prime Directive? Boring.
 
Yeppp season 3 is when things really "begin".

Another flaw of the show is how jocular all the conversations are and how Mary Sue all the characters are. There is no sense of running a crew / respect for hierarchy / seriousness, and there's no sense of growth as the seasons go on. Sisko in particular is really hard to read. He's has the artistic freewheeling personality of Riker but also bites people's heads off when in command. Unlike Picard (whose anger and standoffishness were treated as flaws) Sisko never runs into trouble by acting this way. Even Sisko's son, Jake, is a bright-eyed kid with no real flaws and gets hot dabo girls without trying.

Every character is too smart for their own good but also suffers from basic social awkwardness / problems. The show becomes a social drama. Sometimes the social drama is exceptional and pays off in big ways. Nog's story arc, Garak's story arc, Odo's story arc, and Major Kira's story arc are each some of the best-written stories in all of the Star Trek I've watched over the years, but the rest is fluff with no sci-fi meat on the bones.

As a show about how familiar alien species interact with one another on a hostly-contested port island space base? DS9 is excellent. As a show about Starfleet and exploring the galaxy and resolving conflicts via the Prime Directive? Boring.
The prime directive is as overused in Star Trek as Time Travel. I for one was glad that was never the main motivation of the show.
 

Davey Cakes

Member
This series got me through a brutal semester in college back in 2011. The timing was perfect as my prior favorite long-form show (Lost) had recently ended. I'd never previously done a full watch of all 176 episodes and boy was I glad I picked it up. Setting it mostly on a space station really helped shift the focus to the characters. I enjoyed that aspect. There was more of a "daily life" feel, at least in the earlier seasons. When the stakes pick up over time due to conflicts with Cardassians, Klingons, The Dominion, and anything else it feels like there's a lot to lose.

But again, characters. I couldn't get enough of Garak, Quark, and Odo. I loved that Miles O'Brien got to shine. Major Kira was a "strong female character" before people became obsessed with representation. Even Worf got to flex as much or more than he did in TNG.

Plus, there are episodes like Duet, The Visitor, Hard Time, and In the Pale Moonlight that are up there with some of the best that Trek has to offer IMO.

If it weren't for DS9 I might not have gotten into Babylon 5 or Farscape.

I feel like it takes forever to be good, though. It was worth it, don't get me wrong, but I don't think I've ever been able to describe a TV experience as 'grinding to get to the good part' before.

We're talking many years of episodes before all the critically acclaimed stuff starts.
The show is incredible when it gets to "critically acclaimed" territory (Season 4) but I think the first three seasons are comfort television in the way that's typical for Trek (or any soap operas/space operas). Yes, they're setting up for the big arcs that happen in the back end of the series but it's enjoyable just being in the world.

Early DS9 is better than early TNG for sure, but I feel like all of these Sci-Fi/Fantasy shows that have 20+ episodes per season take a while to reach must-watch territory. Definitely a contrast to the more tightly written and presented shows of today.
 
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DunDunDunpachi

Patient MembeR
The prime directive is as overused in Star Trek as Time Travel. I for one was glad that was never the main motivation of the show.
Well it didn't need to be the main motivation, but it should've mattered more than it did. The story takes place on a space station (with the occasional runabout mission) where the Prime Directive would likely be applied differently than on the Enterprise, but in most cases it just wasn't applied at all. When regulation is brought up, Sisko just sternly says something to the effect of "I trust Odo with handling it".

The lack doesn't sink the show, though. It was good overall, far better than all the other series (sans TNG) but I have my complaints.
 
Well it didn't need to be the main motivation, but it should've mattered more than it did. The story takes place on a space station (with the occasional runabout mission) where the Prime Directive would likely be applied differently than on the Enterprise, but in most cases it just wasn't applied at all. When regulation is brought up, Sisko just sternly says something to the effect of "I trust Odo with handling it".

The lack doesn't sink the show, though. It was good overall, far better than all the other series (sans TNG) but I have my complaints.
That part of space was pretty well known as it was heavily militarized by the Cardassians And the badlands wasn’t a place to go spelunking for new planets. Moreover, the mission of the Federation was not of exploration there but of a transitional government.

Prime directives wouldn’t apply to much more than the Wormhole in first contact scenarios.

Also, the prime directive was in constant play behind the scenes in the tranSition of the Bajorians into the Federation. Sisko could not gift them any technology that would tip their society’s government or religious development. So you could say Sisko Becoming the Emissary is an exploration of the Prime Directive itself. Which is true Sci-Fi.

That is why DS9 is the bees knees. Something for everyone.
 

Paltheos

Member
Well it didn't need to be the main motivation, but it should've mattered more than it did. The story takes place on a space station (with the occasional runabout mission) where the Prime Directive would likely be applied differently than on the Enterprise, but in most cases it just wasn't applied at all. When regulation is brought up, Sisko just sternly says something to the effect of "I trust Odo with handling it".

The lack doesn't sink the show, though. It was good overall, far better than all the other series (sans TNG) but I have my complaints.

Hm. The implication might have been that Starfleet was kinda loosy-goosy about the whole thing. Sisko even questions this in the pilot and Picard makes it clear that he's to do everything in his power short of directly breaking the PD to make sure the Bajorans are ready to join the Federation, which.. isn't entirely consistent with the approach we've seen before. And this was before the Fed and everybody else knew about the wormhole to the other side of the galaxy, after which I would not at all be surprised if there was some pressure just to keep the whole situation stable.

In allot of ways things just kinda worked out. Sisko was a religious figure to the Bajorans but he seldom ever wanted to use this influence directly and felt uncomfortable by it because of the PD (I'm sure it was probably name-dropped at some point?). It does come up in that one episode where Sisko becomes a crazy person! But it doesn't really go anywhere too interesting because Sisko's not seriously reprimanded and everything just happened to work out because his ramblings happened to come true (Bajor joining the Federation would have jeopardized their safety when the Dominion claimed a foothold in the alpha quadrant).

Other times when the PD really did come up, they kinda just... didn't care all that much. Like in Way of the Warrior, when the crew felt it necessary to warn the Cardassian government that a whole gaggle of Klingons are coming to wreck shit up, they just ignore the PD and choose an option that won't trace back to them in order to warn the Carddies. ... and lest us not forget that Sisko nuked an entire planet for reasons not at all personal and got a slap on the wrist for it. Realistic consistency is not entirely consistent in DS9, although to be perfectly honest that last sentence is really just something I wanted to say because I like saying "Sisko nuked an entire planet". It's not something I thought about as much or is as relevant as the rest. :messenger_smiling_with_eyes:

I wouldn't put it better than TNG but it's better than Enterprise. Reading the OP reminds me that I have a huge OP of Sci-fi TV series from the 80's-90's I'd like to get back to.

Agreed. TNG generally is stronger imo for being more consistent week-to-week. DS9 experiments allot which is something I genuinely appreciate, but it just so happens that it turns out more and bigger stinkers than winners. The winners are usually some of the best in the franchise though.

People have been citing some of their favorites, so I'm just gonna drop one I haven't seen mentioned yet - season 6's Waltz, the brilliant 40 minute breakdown of Dukat's character. Alaimo's performance as a broken man is near-impeccable, and so many of the lines are great stuff.

"On and on it went, year after blood-soaked year. Time and again I would reach out with an open hand of friendship, and time and again they would slap it away."
...
"So, why do you think they weren't appreciating this rare opportunity you were offering them, hm?
...
"Pride. Stubborn, unyielding pride. From the servant girl that cleaned my quarters, to the condemned man toiling in a labor camp, to the terrorist skulking through the hills of Dahkur Province. They all wore their pride like some... twisted badge of honor."
"And you hated them for it."
"Of course I hated them! I hated everything about them! Their superstitions, and their cries for sympathy, their treachery and their lies. Their smug superiority and their stiff-necked obstinacy. Their earrings, and their broken, wrinkled noses!"
"You should have killed them all, hm?"
"Yes! Yes! That's right, isn't it? I knew it! I've always known it! I should've killed every last one of them! I should've turned their planet into a graveyard the likes of which the galaxy had never seen! I should have killed them all."

I think the second to last sentence in Dukat's last line is a little much (in writing or performance, not sure) but the rest of it is so good, peeling away Dukat's tendencies toward bending the truth and his fake altruism to reveal the deep-seeded hatred for everything about the Bajorians. Especially that part where he describes what about them bothers him, which degrades from a lack of compassion and understanding to full-on hatred for their physical appearances.
 

Sub_Level

wants to fuck an Asian grill.
Only seen one season each of TNG (3rd & 1st episode of 4th) and DS9 (5th) so I'm a nooblet in this field.

But my take is that TNG is a good adventure while DS9 was a slower, more thoughtful approach to the universe.
 

mcz117chief

Member
I have watched TNG and DS9 multiple times. I definitely prefer DS9. Sisko is way more fun than Picard the entire cast is just way more interesting and diverse. On the Enterprise everyone is a stiff most of the time, on DS9 everyone has their own agendas, motivations, goals etc. it is so much fun to watch the interactions, especially between Garak/Bashir, Quark/Odo and Sisko and Kira vs the World.
 

Davey Cakes

Member
I have watched TNG twice in its entirety. So Worf should be a welcome cast member.
Worf "completes" DS9. Probably the best main character they could've pulled from TNG in terms of fitting in with the rest of the crew.

It's really crazy how much they flesh out his character in DS9.
They really saved him for me.

The Klingon from DS9 are the best representation they ever got !
DS9 also improved the Cardassians and ESPECIALLY the Ferengi.
 
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Ornlu

Banned
it's aight, babylon 5 is significantly better

This man speaks the truth!

Babylon 5 GIFs - Get the best GIF on GIPHY


Hm. The implication might have been that Starfleet was kinda loosy-goosy about the whole thing. Sisko even questions this in the pilot and Picard makes it clear that he's to do everything in his power short of directly breaking the PD to make sure the Bajorans are ready to join the Federation, which.. isn't entirely consistent with the approach we've seen before. And this was before the Fed and everybody else knew about the wormhole to the other side of the galaxy, after which I would not at all be surprised if there was some pressure just to keep the whole situation stable.

In allot of ways things just kinda worked out. Sisko was a religious figure to the Bajorans but he seldom ever wanted to use this influence directly and felt uncomfortable by it because of the PD (I'm sure it was probably name-dropped at some point?). It does come up in that one episode where Sisko becomes a crazy person! But it doesn't really go anywhere too interesting because Sisko's not seriously reprimanded and everything just happened to work out because his ramblings happened to come true (Bajor joining the Federation would have jeopardized their safety when the Dominion claimed a foothold in the alpha quadrant).

Other times when the PD really did come up, they kinda just... didn't care all that much. Like in Way of the Warrior, when the crew felt it necessary to warn the Cardassian government that a whole gaggle of Klingons are coming to wreck shit up, they just ignore the PD and choose an option that won't trace back to them in order to warn the Carddies. ... and lest us not forget that Sisko nuked an entire planet for reasons not at all personal and got a slap on the wrist for it. Realistic consistency is not entirely consistent in DS9, although to be perfectly honest that last sentence is really just something I wanted to say because I like saying "Sisko nuked an entire planet". It's not something I thought about as much or is as relevant as the rest. :messenger_smiling_with_eyes:



Agreed. TNG generally is stronger imo for being more consistent week-to-week. DS9 experiments allot which is something I genuinely appreciate, but it just so happens that it turns out more and bigger stinkers than winners. The winners are usually some of the best in the franchise though.

People have been citing some of their favorites, so I'm just gonna drop one I haven't seen mentioned yet - season 6's Waltz, the brilliant 40 minute breakdown of Dukat's character. Alaimo's performance as a broken man is near-impeccable, and so many of the lines are great stuff.

"On and on it went, year after blood-soaked year. Time and again I would reach out with an open hand of friendship, and time and again they would slap it away."
...
"So, why do you think they weren't appreciating this rare opportunity you were offering them, hm?
...
"Pride. Stubborn, unyielding pride. From the servant girl that cleaned my quarters, to the condemned man toiling in a labor camp, to the terrorist skulking through the hills of Dahkur Province. They all wore their pride like some... twisted badge of honor."
"And you hated them for it."
"Of course I hated them! I hated everything about them! Their superstitions, and their cries for sympathy, their treachery and their lies. Their smug superiority and their stiff-necked obstinacy. Their earrings, and their broken, wrinkled noses!"
"You should have killed them all, hm?"
"Yes! Yes! That's right, isn't it? I knew it! I've always known it! I should've killed every last one of them! I should've turned their planet into a graveyard the likes of which the galaxy had never seen! I should have killed them all."

I think the second to last sentence in Dukat's last line is a little much (in writing or performance, not sure) but the rest of it is so good, peeling away Dukat's tendencies toward bending the truth and his fake altruism to reveal the deep-seeded hatred for everything about the Bajorians. Especially that part where he describes what about them bothers him, which degrades from a lack of compassion and understanding to full-on hatred for their physical appearances.

And he still had that deep-seated shameful lust for Bajoran women, too. He was definitely a villain done the right way. Just compassionate enough as a character in the earlier series to leave you horrified by him at the end.
 

NecrosaroIII

Ask me about my terrible takes on Star Trek characters
Worf "completes" DS9. Probably the best main character they could've pulled from TNG in terms of fitting in with the rest of the crew.

My wife has a crush on Michael Dorn. Every time he was on screen in Far Beyond the Stars, she kept saying how sexy he was. And his voice is amazing.
 
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