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[show me your skeleton]

having worked in blockbuster for a few years i had the luxury of playing games before street date & never had any trouble, microsoft must be working overtime for halo 4.

 

[I'm an expert]

having worked in blockbuster for a few years i had the luxury of playing games before street date & never had any trouble, microsoft must be working overtime for halo 4.

Gratz on playing SNES and Sega games without issue. How did you sneak that one past them?? Did you disconnect the phone line from the consoles???

 

[pa22word]

Some of the posts in this topic are enough to make me never want to enter another Halo thread again. Despicable display itt, and I feel sorry for the fans of this game for having to put up both with this draconian policy and with people actually berating them for attempting to play a copy of a game they legally purchased, and being banned for doing so with no warning.

 

[dark_prinny]

Stupid Microsoft is stupid.

 

[JimmyRustler]

>2012
>not waiting until the official release date to play something online

Yes this is MS' fault

Ey, be fair. One just needs to brag with playing the game early in front of his Xbox Live buddies.

 

[Foliorum Viridum]

Amazed at people defending MS here. Jesus.

 

[Skyfireblaze]

Honestly reading through many pages of the thread I can understand both sides of the issue. Microsoft wants to protect their game and at the same time it's wrong to assume that the general customer knows about release dates, where I'm from I can easily get games 2-3 days before the release dates simply by asking at the information counter. The store I usually shop at is fairly big and before I look through tons of games I usually just ask the store personal "Hey do you have game XYZ already?" "*looks at PC system* Yeah we do, let me get it for you" and then the system will check me out without a mention of release dates or anything.

So I ask myself why Microsoft simply doesn't put a far less extreme system into place, when you put in a copy of a game before the release date your XBOX would display a message like:

"Dear valued customer, the game you purchased was unfortunately sold before the retail release date of 06.11.2012. To ensure the quality of the product and also the quality of the online experience your system will disconnect from XBOX Live aslong as this software is played before the date mentioned. It will reconnect automatically once you exit the software and return to the XBOX Dashboard. Please do note that we also won't provide support for this software until the date is met and that Microsoft can't be held accountable for any issues that might occur to the game or your system by playing the game early.

Do you want to start the game in offline mode?

Yes/No

Am I wrong for thinking that would have the same effect as the ban policy Microsoft has now without causing the inconvenience to deal with the Support and asking to unban the account? Or am I missing something here? :/

EDIT: Before anyone mentions pirates in regard to my post, of course pirates and cheaters should be banned from playing but if they can't tell a legit but sold early and pirated game apart it's sad they put in a system that punishes both equally.

 

[danwarb]

Amazed at people defending MS here. Jesus.

For banning pirates, or accidentaly banning those who blagged or bought legit copies early and then got unbanned?


It's not 2 or 3 days before release.

 

[Hanmik]

Honestly reading through many pages of the thread I can understand both sides of the issue. Microsoft wants to protect their game and at the same time it's wrong to assume that the general customer knows about release dates, where I'm from I can easily get games 2-3 days before the release dates simply by asking at the information counter. The store I usually shop at is fairly big and before I look through tons of games I usually just ask the store personal "Hey do you have game XYZ already?" "*looks at PC system* Yeah we do, let me get it for you" and then the system will check me out without a mention of release dates or anything.

So I ask myself why Microsoft simply doesn't put a far less extreme system into place, when you put in a copy of a game before the release date your XBOX would display a message like:

"Dear valued customer, the game you purchased was unfortunately sold before the retail release date of 06.11.2012. To ensure the quality of the product and also the quality of the online experience your system will disconnect from XBOX Live aslong as this software is played before the date mentioned. It will reconnect automatically once you exit the software and return to the XBOX Dashboard. Please do note that we also won't provide support for this software until the date is met and that Microsoft can't be held accountable for any issues that might occur to the game or your system by playing the game early.

Do you want to start the game in offline mode?

Yes/No

Am I wrong for thinking that would have the same effect as the ban policy Microsoft has now without causing the inconvenience to deal with the Support and asking to unban the account? Or am I missing something here? :/

But people are also getting banned for playing offline Halo 4.. so that wouldn´t do anything.

 

[PumpkinPie]

Amazed at people defending MS here. Jesus.

OP knew what he was doing and knew what could happen, yet he couldn't keep his dick in his pants for a few more days.

 

[Skyfireblaze]

But people are also getting banned for playing offline Halo 4.. so that wouldn´t do anything.

Oh dear well this is just unreasonable then. What reason is there to ban the general online access of people playing offline? o.o That's like revoking the daily-life driving license of a race-driver for a crash he caused during a race...

 

[Uno Venova]

Amazed at people defending MS here. Jesus.

I can still get surprised when I read this forum.

 

[x-Lundz-x]

No worries guys. This will not be an issue next gen when we have CD-Keys that have to be registered before you can play a game.

 

[Foliorum Viridum]

For banning pirates, or accidentaly banning those who blagged or bought legit copies early and then got unbanned?


It's not 2 or 3 days before release.

If you get sold a legit copy you shouldn't have your account banned, fullstop.

If MS can't tell a pirated from a legit copy then it's on them to improve.

 

[Fudgepuppy]

So how early can you play the game? I got Mass Effect 3 five days before release when buying from one of the biggest retailers in Sweden, and I got ODST the day before release etc.

Don't want to get banned if I get the game on the 5th.

 

[Deleted member 1235]

So how is the game?

 

[I'm an expert]

If you get sold a legit copy you shouldn't have your account banned, fullstop.

If MS can't tell a pirated from a legit copy then it's on them to improve.

While it isn't the customer's fault for being sold a copy, MS has no way of confirming how someone got the game so early other than pirate/stole it. If this were 2-3 days before, as has been stated by the developers here, MS wouldn't typically care. But over a week out, when the network code and such is still not finalized for release, they have no reason to expect anyone should have a legal copy of the game other than press. Why? Because they take very detailed measures to ensure stores know when to sell it.

I really don't get how people think MS is the big, bad guy here. The anti-corp shit here is just silly, unless everyone here really doesn't get how important this kind of stuff is for a business.

 

[specialguy]

never mind

 

[Skyfireblaze]

While it isn't the customer's fault for being sold a copy, MS has no way of confirming how someone got the game so early other than pirate/stole it. If this were 2-3 days before, as has been stated by the developers here, MS wouldn't typically care. But over a week out, when the network code and such is still not finalized for release, they have no reason to expect anyone should have a legal copy of the game other than press. Why? Because they take very detailed measures to ensure stores know when to sell it.

I really don't get how people think MS is the big, bad guy here. The anti-corp shit here is just silly, unless everyone here really doesn't get how important this kind of stuff is for a business.

Well as I said before couldn't the just lock the online mode till release?

 

[Kum0]

I remember playing Halo 3 a week before launch and played it online no problems.

Only difference is Halo 4 is wholly Microsoft owned, its own dev studio etc.

It's MS baby and with that will have an infinite resource. Call them up and resolve the issue, it's shit but they are taking action they deem fit to protect their IP.

 

[I'm an expert]

Well as I said before couldn't the just lock the online mode till release?

No, because the press are using it for their reviews (with a disclaimer message meant only for the press about how this build does not represent the final build's state on release day) and they themselves are using it to finish up their preparations. The op would have gotten this message as well, but that doesn't mean he wouldn't have come on here or somewhere else to talk about it. Which is exactly what they're trying to prevent this... for the millionth time..

 

[Ravensmash]

Why are we all jumping on the OP again? Regardless of how 'shady' the transaction could have seemed, the emphasis should be on the retailer, not the customer.

Unless OP forced them to break release date lol

 

[HigherLevel]

I remember playing Halo 3 a week before launch and played it online no problems.

Only difference is Halo 4 is wholly Microsoft owned, its own dev studio etc.

It's MS baby and with that will have an infinite resource. Call them up and resolve the issue, it's shit but they are taking action they deem fit to protect their IP.

Bungie was owned by MS when Halo 3 released.

 

[DenogginizerOS]

Is there anything in the box stating that playing this game before November 6th could lead to a ban from Xbox Live?

 

[The_Monk]

Hey OP let us know if you get any updates, it really seems a strange thing.

But to be honest if after all this you still going to buy a new 360 and pay for LIVE, man... =/

I have no idea how they find if you are playing legit or not but it sure is strange getting banned from a real copy. Hope all works for you despite the "shady" form of purchase like you mentioned.

 

[I'm an expert]

Is there anything in the box stating that playing this game before November 6th could lead to a ban from Xbox Live?

IN the box? Why would there be? The games shouldn't be sold before the 6th. ON the box, for the retailers, are giant stickers that say DO NOT SELL BEFORE NOV 6TH.

 

[DenogginizerOS]

IN the box? Why would there be? The games shouldn't be sold before the 6th. ON the box, for the retailers, are giant stickers that say DO NOT SELL BEFORE NOV 6TH.

Because punishing a consumer for a retailer's mistake is bad business. Not saying that is what happened here, but that orange sticker does not warn customers about anything.

 

[SmokedMeat]

If you get banned do they just pocket the money you paid for Xbox Live?

 

[Hanmik]

Did OP ever tell us if he played online or not..?

 

[Ravensmash]

Because punishing a consumer for a retailer's mistake is bad business. Not saying that is what happened here, but that orange sticker does not warn customers about anything.

Indeed. It's not OP's responsibility to ensure that a retailer behaves ethically, that is down to them.

I can understand why MS might ban at the first instance in a case like this, but glad to see he's rightfully being unbanned (hopefully).

 

[I'm an expert]

If you get banned do they just pocket the money you paid for Xbox Live?

Assuming the op (or anyone) had a legitimate reason to be banned, why on earth would they refund you? You pay for the service and agree to their terms. Do people who get banned on an mmo for whatever reason get their subscriptions refunded?

 

[test_account]

IN the box? Why would there be? The games shouldn't be sold before the 6th. ON the box, for the retailers, are giant stickers that say DO NOT SELL BEFORE NOV 6TH.

True. However, when ordering stuff online, it sometimes happends that the game arrives earlier (since its being shipped before release date to make sure that the buyer has the game on release date). This happened to me with both Black Ops and Modern Warfare 3, i got both those games 4 days in advance because of early shipment, and the postal service probably worked faster than the sender anticipated.

 

[Foliorum Viridum]

While it isn't the customer's fault for being sold a copy, MS has no way of confirming how someone got the game so early other than pirate/stole it. If this were 2-3 days before, as has been stated by the developers here, MS wouldn't typically care. But over a week out, when the network code and such is still not finalized for release, they have no reason to expect anyone should have a legal copy of the game other than press. Why? Because they take very detailed measures to ensure stores know when to sell it.

I really don't get how people think MS is the big, bad guy here. The anti-corp shit here is just silly, unless everyone here really doesn't get how important this kind of stuff is for a business.

But the store DID sell it. He PAID for it legitimately. It's cash for MS at the end of the day. He didn't pirate it. He didn't do anything wrong.

That's why it's fucking bullshit. Rationalising it from MS' perspective is pointless when at the end of a day a paying consumer who happened to be sold a copy early has been banned from Live.

 

[I'm an expert]

True. However, when ordering stuff online, it sometimes happends that the game arrives earlier (since its being shipped before release date to make sure that the buyer has the game on release date). This happened to me with both Black Ops and Modern Warfare 3, i got both those games 4 days in advance because of early shipment, and the postal service probably worked faster than the sender anticipated.

Sure it happens, but that's within a week. I'd like to point out the op posted in the pickups thread on Oct 26th that he had the game. That's more than a full business week before the game should be released, and before any early shipments should be out. It's obvious why MS would flag accounts playing that early.

But the store DID sell it. He PAID for it legitimately. It's cash for MS at the end of the day. He didn't pirate it. He didn't do anything wrong.

That's why it's fucking bullshit. Rationalising it from MS' perspective is pointless when at the end of a day a paying consumer who happened to be sold a copy early has been banned from Live.

It doesn't matter if he paid for it. Great. Then he can get a refund from the store or deal with the store in any official capacity. That has nothing to do with his relationship to the Live service or MS. That relationship, as dictated by MS for Halo 5, should not begin until much closer to Nov 6th. And that's MS's right to enforce, and that is the agreement you all agree to if you log on to Live.

 

[Waaghals]

So, when can we play H4 without fear of repercussions?

Due to the way the postal system works up here, there is a small (but real) chance of me getting it this saturday.

 

[Skyfireblaze]

No, because the press are using it for their reviews (with a disclaimer message meant only for the press about how this build does not represent the final build's state on release day) and they themselves are using it to finish up their preparations. The op would have gotten this message as well, but that doesn't mean he wouldn't have come on here or somewhere else to talk about it. Which is exactly what they're trying to prevent this... for the millionth time..

Of course you are right, I get this too but I still think that outright banning is way too harsh I mean if they already had a Gamertag Whitelist I'm sure they could have easily made it like Gamertag on Whitelist? You can stay online! Gamertag not on Whitelist? Game is locked in offline mode for the time being.

 

[I'm an expert]

So, when can we play H4 without fear of repercussions?

Due to the way the postal system works up here, there is a small (but real) chance of me getting it this saturday.

That is within a few days of release and completely plausible. There shouldn't be any issue.

Of course you are right, I get this too but I still think that outright banning is way too harsh I mean if they already had a Gamertag Whitelist I'm sure they could have easily made it like Gamertag on Whitelist? You can stay online! Gamertag not on Whitelist? Game is locked in offline mode for the time being.

Ah, well, I have no idea what functionality they have in regards to what they can and can't do on your account/machine. Maybe a complete Live banning is too harsh, but, that's what they choose to do. Shrug.

 

[test_account]

Did OP ever tell us if he played online or not..?

It is probably enough just be be connected to Xbox Live and start the game. This way the game ID data is being sent to the Xbox Live servers.

Sure it happens, but that's within a week. I'd like to point out the op posted in the pickups thread on Oct 26th that he had the game. That's more than a full business week before the game should be released, and before any early shipments should be out. It's obvious why MS would flag accounts playing that early.

Good point, i didnt think about that Halo 4 isn't out before in over a week.

 

[Bony Manifesto]

IN the box? Why would there be? The games shouldn't be sold before the 6th. ON the box, for the retailers, are giant stickers that say DO NOT SELL BEFORE NOV 6TH.

But if Microsoft are going to punish consumers as well, surely there should be a warning that your console and account is going to be permanently banned from Xbox Live if you try to play this game before the official release.

 

[BruiserBear]

But if Microsoft are going to punish consumers as well, surely there should be a warning that your console and account is going to be permanently banned from Xbox Live if you try to play this game before the official release.

Exactly. It's common sense.

 

[test_account]

So, when can we play H4 without fear of repercussions?

Due to the way the postal system works up here, there is a small (but real) chance of me getting it this saturday.

I'm wondering about this too. Not just about Halo 4, but also about Black Ops 2. I've played Black Ops and Modern Warfare 3 while being connected online days before the official release (i only played single player, but the game did show up in the friendlist since i was online). This was for the PS3 versions however, but with the recent custom firmware stuff on PS3, i'm wondering how Sony will do it now, if they might think it is a pirated version and maybe ban people because of that.

 

[I'm an expert]

But if Microsoft are going to punish consumers as well, surely there should be a warning that your console and account is going to be permanently banned from Xbox Live if you try to play this game before the official release.

One, they have no way of confirming if you're a consumer or pirate, and two they don't really expect anyone having the game more than a full business week out without some sort of shady reason. The op admitted the entire transaction was shady, and it's obvious the retailer broke their contract with the distributor and should face legal repercussions. But for MS to go out of their way and put up a message in game or in the box or anything of that sort is a bit much. They have a common sense right to assume no one would have the game so early through legal means other than press. Though shipping the game so early to retailers might be a mistake.

 

[RedNumberFive]

True. However, when ordering stuff online, it sometimes happends that the game arrives earlier (since its being shipped before release date to make sure that the buyer has the game on release date). This happened to me with both Black Ops and Modern Warfare 3, i got both those games 4 days in advance because of early shipment, and the postal service probably worked faster than the sender anticipated.

Yup. I live pretty close to an Amazon distribution center and often get games early.

 

[BruiserBear]

One, they have no way of confirming if you're a consumer or pirate, and two they don't really expect anyone having the game more than a full business week out without some sort of shady reason. The op admitted the entire transaction was shady, and it's obvious the retailer broke their contract with the distributor and should face legal repercussions. But for MS to go out of their way and put up a message in game or in the box or anything of that sort is a bit much. They have a common sense right to assume no one would have the game so early through legal means other than press. Though shipping the game so early to retailers might be a mistake.

But it's not a bit much to ban an unknowing consumer for playing the game early?

In this case the consumer knew better, but surely it's possible someone will buy a game early and have no idea it was early, and then get banned.

There isn't even a point to debating whether this is reasonable behavior on Microsoft's part. It's not.

 

[I'm an expert]

Yup. I live pretty close to an Amazon distribution center and often get games early.

A few days early is a lot different than 8 business days or a week and a half early, as was the case in this situation.

But it's not a bit much to ban an unknowing consumer for playing the game early?

In this case the consumer knew better, but surely it's possible someone will buy a game early and have no idea it was early, and then get banned.

There isn't even a point to debating whether this is reasonable behavior on Microsoft's part. It's not.

There's no such thing as "reasonable" in this situation. This isn't a matter of law. You voluntarily agree to MS's terms and conditions for using their products and services. They can ban you at anytime for ANYTHING. It's within their right. If you think the punishment is too much, vote with your dollar and don't support MS or Live.

 

[neorej]

It is probably enough just be be connected to Xbox Live and start the game. This way the game ID data is being sent to the Xbox Live servers.

It's enough to play the game while physically disconnected from the LAN and reconnect later. The dates will tell MS that you played the game early and you will be banned.

Obviously, it's the consumer's duty to keep track of releasedates and not play a game before this date. It's Microsoft's right to enforce this duty by any means necessary. OP was in the wrong, Microsoft is in the right, we all know big corporations need protecting from consumers.

Spoiler

</sarcasm>

 

[dEvAnGeL]

you should contact kotaku, they usually blow things like this wide open and eventually the company involved in the case ends up giving a statement and if you manage to prove you acquire the game legally MS most likely would restore everything back to normal

 

[LiquidMetal14]

Yup. I live pretty close to an Amazon distribution center and often get games early.

Better tell MS that so you can be banned!

 

[MarkMclovin]

Then you go through the proper channels and get it unbanned.

Also, I think your wife would find it pretty suspicious when they tell her she can't have a receipt for her purchase. What is this, a back-alley abortion?

OK then, the receipt is lost? Does it matter? My XBOX would still be banned because a shop was selling it when it shouldn't have been. MS shouldn't have banned the account or the console until investigating.

The argument is about the account being banned, not getting a receipt or the payment method.

 

[Dennis]

you should contact kotaku, they usually blow things like this wide open and eventually the company involved in the case ends up giving a statement and if you manage to prove you acquire the game legally MS most likely would restore everything back to normal

Well, if they can open that Halo 4 box on their site maybe they can do something a little more substantial and get in touch with MS.

I mean, they must have earned some goodwill......