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[Bolivar687]

I'm sorry Kotaku but you can't have your cake and eat it, too. Just as you're free to leak info in the best interest of your readers, publishers are in turn free to not provide you with content if you're disrupting their marketing cycles.

Writing self-righteous articles to score points with gamers and pressure them to delist you is shameless and the staff should be embarassed.

Man, that rhetoric at the end of the article is cringe-worthy.

 

[DrROBschiz]

Man, people pasively defending this practices is just... sad.

Thw core demand of games journalism is to inform consumer purchases

Sure on principle this is a petty response but it doesnt have a huge impact in what Kotaku does day to day

Of course people are passive. The stakes are just so low here

 

[Altered Juice]

GAFshitposts.gif

Shit post indeed

If a journalist came up in my Twitter inbox asking me about a game my company is working on I would definitely tell him everything. Fuck the NDA, gamers have a right to know! Not next month....not next week...BUT RIGHT NOW!

Jesus Christ, dude it's called common sense.

stop pretending that kotaku or any other journalists gives a damn about you.

 

[Makonero]

So I really need to add Kotaku to my gaming news morning checks then.

You really should. Awesome articles on a daily basis. Not everything is gold, but I've really found stuff to be honest and authentic.

 

[Replicant]

All publisher should blacklist ALL gaming publications. It's in their interest and the gaming publications' interest that they are not associated with one another.

Enough of this sleeping on the same bed thing. Gaming publications and journalists should always always obtain their own copy. If they can't obtain their own copy then they should not review it because their ability to be impartial would have been reduced. Especially if the copy is given by the kindness of the publisher.

It's not normal to expect to be given anything by the very publisher whose product you want to criticise. You'll lose all ability to be objective the minute something is given to you for free by those publishers.

 

[Dangansona]

The last remaining holdout I have with Kotaku are headlines like these:

The Lion King In VR Is The Most Thrilling And Nostalgic Thing You'll See Today

 

[EloquentM]

I for one like insider information as do many on gaf when there are insiders leaking their favorite game. It's interesting to see such responses defending publishers. Kudos to you for expressing your opinion though. That last destiny article from kotaku was amazing.

The last remaining holdout I have with Kotaku are headlines like these:

I mean what publications don't have any hyperbolic headlines?

 

[Birgitte2004]

I find it interesting how many people want to put Kotaku on a pedestal and demonize Ubisoft and Bethesda based purely on Kotaku's side of the story.

After all, Kotaku are journalists. Any journalist worth their salt can tell a story with a "pro-us" slant, and do so easily.

 

[GillianSeed79]

Partly because there are more questions from readers about why there are no early reviews.

Probably this. The emails you will never see are probably the metric ton of emails they get from readers who are wrongly angry and complaining why they didn't have an early review or why don't they write a story about this or that regarding Ubisoft or Bethesda. There were also a lot of news stories after the release of Fallout 4 about whether or not Bethesda gets a free pass from the press in reviews for releasing buggy games. I'm willing to bet Kotaku probably got angry, ranting emails accusing them of being in Bethesda's pocket or something for not having a review earlier when nothing could be further from the truth.

 

[m_dorian]

If this ever happened to some other media tools of the gaming industry, some people would be fired.

Kotaku is doing a decent job so far.

 

[jschreier]

The last remaining holdout I have with Kotaku are headlines like these:

That's a Gizmodo story.

 

[Cday]

err what??

My impression of how Bethesda and Ubisoft are treating them. They're an unprofessional site.

 

[BrokenFiction]

All publisher should blacklist ALL gaming publications. It's in their interest and the gaming publications' interest that they are not associated with one another.

Enough of this sleeping on the same bed thing. Gaming publications and journalists should always always obtain their own copy. If they can't obtain their own copy then they should not review it because their ability to be impartial would have been reduced. Especially if the copy is given by the kindness of the publisher.

It's not normal to expect to be given anything by the very publisher whose product you want to criticise. You'll lose all ability to be objective the minute something is given to you for free by those publishers.

This. This. This. No more cozy relationships. Be journalists, not "games journalists".

 

[GatticusFinch]

That's a Gizmodo story.

And it could have been a Kotaku story if you'd just backed Scar for leader of the pride. Lion King = 1. Journalism = 0.

 

[wesleyshark]

Hopefully more game studios/companies follow suit.

 

[TheSlySoul]

This. This. This. No more cozy relationships. Be journalists, not "games journalists".

Exactly, I feel like if you cannot be honest about something, you should not be a journalist. Publishers should also not threaten to pull ads if Kayne and Lynch 2 gets a 6/10. Boo hoo, grow up.
I find review boot camps nasty.

 

[Dangansona]

I for one like insider information as do many on gaf when there are insiders leaking their favorite game. It's interesting to see such responses defending publishers. Kudos to you for expressing your opinion though. That last destiny article from kotaku was amazing.


I mean what publications don't have any hyperbolic headlines?

I'm with you that the Destiny article (and the MGSV in a similar vein) were super important. As for the headlines: That's true, but doesn't excuse it. I think in general the Internet has adopted a lot of bad practices in the last 5 years, a lot of which South Park hit on last night: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVfslRsNXUc

That's a Gizmodo story.

If you have managed to reduce the amount of headlines like this then that's on me then. Strange how Gawker articles cross-pollinate across the network like that.

 

[The Antitype]

:facepalm:

The final paragraph shows just how deep Totilo's egocentrism goes.

He's upset that game companies are making his job harder.

...because he, in turn, is making the job of their marketing department harder.

So, just to be clear. Him screwing up a marketing team's plans and schedule deserves props, while the marketing team screwing with his ability to do his job is shameful?

Newsflash Totilo. You're not exactly Woodward and Bernstein for breaking the news of a game that's going to be announced anyway a few months ahead of time and fucking up somebody else's work.

Troubled developments, poor employee conditions, etc - THAT'S reporting.

Playing 'Gotcha!' and releasing confirmation of the existence of a game you know full well is guaranteed to be announced within months isn't impressive. And the marketing teams at those companies are well within their right to ignore you.

 

[Kobun Heat]

This. This. This. No more cozy relationships. Be journalists, not "games journalists".

That has precisely been Kotaku's M.O. since it was established.

 

[TheSlySoul]

If you have managed to reduce the amount of headlines like this then that's on me then. Strange how Gawker articles cross-pollinate across the network like that.

It is odd, but I gotten used to it as a reader. Nothing is worse than Gawker.com though.

 

[SonicXtreme]

Good? Kotaku is about as reputable a source as a random youtuber so who cares.

 

[Darkstorne]

Good? Kotaku is about as reputable a source as a random youtuber so who cares.

I don't know about that. The vast majority of their leaks turn out to be accurate. They were the guys who reported that FF Versus XIII was being folded into FF XV, and they got ridiculed for it for months until it turned out true. They reported on numerous COD games first, at least two Assassin Creed games (Unity and Syndicate/Victory), and Prey 2 being cancelled.

It's got to the point where when I see them break news about a new game in development, I think "It's on Kotaku - this is likely accurate."

 

[DICKS AHOY]

I'd strongly recommend Kotaku AU which in my experience doesn't cross-post any other Gawker owned sites since the Australian branch (for some weird reason) isn't owned by them. You just get Kotaku's articles, mixed in with ones made by KAU.

Also they might not have as many dumb "hey look at this pokemon wallpaper" articles from what they take over from the Gawker-owned version, though that could just be me getting lucky whenever I check their feed.

 

[RowdyReverb]

I like Kotaku's output, but I can understand this move. Kotaku plays hardball, so the publishers are going to respond in kind. You can't be both a soft and hard journalism website simultaneously.
Yes, the review side of their output will suffer, but I can get that elsewhere. If this is the trade necessary for Kotaku to continue their actual investigative journalism, so be it.

 

[DeepEnigma]

And it could have been a Kotaku story if you'd just backed Scar for leader of the pride. Lion King = 1. Journalism = 0.

Hahaha

 

[Alex Connolly]

Kotaku's blacklisting is simply due to still having Brian Ashcraft on the payroll.

 

[Maximus.]

Is there really anything of value lost by being cut out of the official PR channels?

Yes they lose traffic from not having the latest hands on information and media and not being able to speak with these companies.

 

[WanderingWind]

Seriously, my idea is gold. Heathens.

 

[NinjamicWZ]

Sure, indisputably, if you ignore what journalism is about.

It is hilarious that you are agreeing with some guy that is talking about "responsible journalism". Sure, you may not think announcing a game beforehand is super important news, but on the other side it doesn't have a big negative effect either. So they are completely responsible in what they are doing.

Also you can't have a working relationship with a journalist by having them tell only what you want them to tell. What in the fuck is that shit?

What are you talking about? These aren't white house correspondents. The only reason companies engage with any of these sites and people is for marketing purposes. The only thing any PR person, CEO or employee can provide to them is authorized marketing material, whether it's actual content, promo screens/video, financial data, or quotes. Every single thing these companies say or share is marketing. If a site has a track record that indicates they'll willingly use whatever marketing material is communicated to or given to them to undermine your intent in doing so, voluntarily giving them anything that can be leaked serves no purpose whatsoever. That is the working relationship. There's no other kinds of relationships available.

 

[John Caboose]

I remember back when Ziff Davis (1UP, EGM etc) got blacklisted by Ubisoft almost a decade ago for giving Assassins Creed 6/10.

The good development for publishers since then has been the advent of youtubers, streamers etc. Now they can put the pressure on a single person as opposed to large organizations even further pushing the balance of power in their favor. "If you promise not to say anything bad about or games or tell anyone we sponsored you we'll invite you to pre-release events and give you early copies of our games. We might even give you exclusive info about them." If the top youtuber says no there's a whole line of youtubers right behind him/her looking to take the deal.

By the way Jason Schreier, if you're reading this, your pieces are god damn amazing and I hope you are real proud of them. From how e3 demos work to the story of destinys development. You are doing work that very few others are doing and you are doing it well.

 

[Five]

I'm very happy about this. Good for Bethesda and Ubisoft. They shouldn't have to play ball with scummy investigators who don't respect them in return.

 

[Dash Kappei]

Well stop fucking leaking things then. If you're privy to information that you know will be officially announced soon, then why damage your relationship with that company by leaking it earlier? Leaks aren't doing some "public good" or bringing to light anything games need to know and can't wait a while to find out

This post can't be real, can it? C'mon, I refuse to believe this wasn't sarcastic

 

[Adam Tyner]

It's not normal to expect to be given anything by the very publisher whose product you want to criticise. You'll lose all ability to be objective the minute something is given to you for free by those publishers.

If reviewers were so wholly and completely tainted by receiving product to review, then why aren't essentially all reviews positive? Not just of video games, but of theatrically released movies, DVDs, Blu-ray discs, music, books, etc.?

Reviews are also a rather small percentage of what sites like Kotaku publish anyway.

 

[Noirulus]

Good. Fuck Kotaku.

 

[igordennis]

Good? Kotaku is about as reputable a source as a random youtuber so who cares.

Lol. Jason where is that complete beatdown you gave a poster here that said similar things that you guys dont get any scoops? Link pls.

 

[JZA]

So Kotaku is going to have to buy its own copies to review and actually have to look around and investigate sources to find news? Isn't this what journalism is supposed to be?

 

[Steel]

People have different opinions from your own. For good or ill.

People have opinions about opinions. For good or ill.

 

[Hoho for breakfast]

I see both sides of it but I'm in support of Kotaku here. Both sides seem to just be trying to do their jobs. I don't see the point in "blacklisting" Kotaku though, and being so upset about it that you would resort to something like that. Also I agree everything is so damn secretive and I don't like it.

Isn't someone from those companies (or someone else) just going to end up leaking some dirt and of course Kotaku will be all too happy to report and give these companies a big "fuck you" right back? So it doesn't seem like blacklisting them would be the brightest idea.

 

[The Antitype]

I see both sides of it but I'm in support of Kotaku here. Both sides seem to just be trying to do their jobs. I don't see the point in "blacklisting" Kotaku though, and being so upset about it that you would resort to something like that. Also I agree everything is so damn secretive and I don't like it.

Isn't someone from those companies (or someone else) just going to end up leaking some dirt and of course Kotaku will be all too happy to report and give these companies a big "fuck you" right back? So it doesn't seem like blacklisting them would be the brightest idea.

But they've been doing that anyway. That's kind of the issue.

If the choice is 'working relationship, plus you fucking with our marketing schedule' and 'non-working relationship, and you still fuck with our marketing schedule' I don't begrudge publishers saying 'fuck off, we don't need to help deliver content for you'.

 

[Prophet Steve]

What are you talking about? These aren't white house correspondents. The only reason companies engage with any of these sites and people is for marketing purposes. The only thing any PR person, CEO or employee can provide to them is authorized marketing material, whether it's actual content, promo screens/video, financial data, or quotes. Every single thing these companies say or share is marketing. If a site has a track record that indicates they'll willingly use whatever marketing material is communicated to or given to them to undermine your intent in doing so, voluntarily giving them anything that can be leaked serves no purpose whatsoever. That is the working relationship. There's no other kinds of relationships available.

But they haven't done anything malicious with the material provided to them. At least as far as I am aware.

 

[QuixoticNeutral]

I'm not fond of Kotaku, but at face value I would be sympathetic to their complaint on the grounds that journalism does have a certain duty to be adversarial rather than advertorial, as game-related sites in particular often forget. But—not taking this at face value—let us not forget that in the first place Kotaku's reporting is nothing special, and in the second place that the Gawker empire is so thoroughly hideous that PR has every reason to cut them off or be wary of scandal-sheet misreporting from any of their sites, for reasons that have nothing at all to do with Jason Schreier (who, as one of the better eggs in a bad bunch and transparent enough with us on GAF, would be better off elsewhere).

 

[The Antitype]

But they haven't done anything malicious with the material provided to them. At least as far as I am aware.

Malicious is kind of harsh, but they've certainly undermined and interferred with their marketing efforts. Marketing schedules for announcements and 'beats' to build anticipation are planned specifically for maximum efficacy.

Not to mention the reveal of a game isn't generally done with blurry screens of a laptop on a plane. You generally want to make a bigger first impression than that.

Kotaku has their head buried so far up their ass and so deep in their delusions of grandeur on this, it's really pathetic to read.

 

[besada]

On one hand, Ubisoft and Bethesda are assholes for blacklisting a site necause they don't like what the site produces. Fine, don't send them games, but refusing to answer questions for articles is petty and obnoxious. And frankly, Ubisoft and Bethesda deserve whatever blowback that creates.

On the other hand, I'm not a fan of the incestuous nature of the existing structure of video game journalism. Sites are tied too closely to publishers, and publishers have way too much power to cripple sites by blacklisting them. I'd prefer less friendly and more advwrsarial contact. The press isn't supposed to be friends with the people they're covering. Their goals are not aligned. Publishers want to obfuscate the truth for financial reasons, and journalists should be trying to reveal the truth, regardless of the desires of the publishers.

If the video game journalism industry had any balls at all -- and I don't believe they do -- this would be a call to arms to join Kotaku in solidarity, by refusing to accept games and press releases from any publisher that thinks it can punish a site into silence. Keep covering the games, just sever your insider ties with publishers and let us know you've done it. For me, that would be a clear indicator that games journalism involving existing projects is worth reading. I currently ignore most real-time stuff, because it's so deeply infected by the rules publishers force on those reporting, that they've turned most sites into marketing arms of the publishers. It would be nice to find more sites that refuse to act as press agents for the publishers.

 

[igordennis]

So Kotaku is going to have to buy its own copies to review and actually have to look around and investigate sources to find news? Isn't this what journalism is supposed to be?

@ investigate sources for news, thats exactly what they have been doing for the last couple of years?

@ buy its own copies to review, thats exactly what they have been doing for the last couple of years (for games from these two companies)? Also lol at your definition of "games journalism" being dependent on the reviewer buying the game himself. Good luck finding any journalist that is not blacklisted then since everyone gets review copies.

 

[Dangansona]

So Kotaku is going to have to buy its own copies to review and actually have to look around and investigate sources to find news? Isn't this what journalism is supposed to be?

Film critics at a high enough level don't have to pay for movie tickets.

 

[NDoerrFans]

:facepalm:

The final paragraph shows just how deep Totilo's egocentrism goes.

He's upset that game companies are making his job harder.

...because he, in turn, is making the job of their marketing department harder.

So, just to be clear. Him screwing up a marketing team's plans and schedule deserves props, while the marketing team screwing with his ability to do his job is shameful?

Newsflash Totilo. You're not exactly Woodward and Bernstein for breaking the news of a game that's going to be announced anyway a few months ahead of time and fucking up somebody else's work.

Troubled developments, poor employee conditions, etc - THAT'S reporting.

Playing 'Gotcha!' and releasing confirmation of the existence of a game you know full well is guaranteed to be announced within months isn't impressive. And the marketing teams at those companies are well within their right to ignore you.

Coming from a publisher, I can confirm this as a damaging thing. When the marketing team sends out press releases about upcoming game announcements, their entire internal process (trailers, screenshots, announcement plans/contests on their own site) hinges around that announcement date. Early leaks/reveals crush the department's plan and force them to go into damage control, strong-arm an early confirmation, and other things. If it's a US branch of a Japanese publisher, they also get to explain to the Japanese developers what happened, why it happened, and engage in various positions of apology because like it or not, it's the marketing team's fault now and someone will get in hot water over it.

This is a really important distinction between journalism/investigating/reporting and just...ruining a company's marketing plan to be the guy screaming "first!" and having the most hits and referrals from piggybacking sites reporting on their leak. YMMV, but pick your battles, I guess?

 

[MSI]

The two panty waste overly politically correct crap sites are getting blacklisted? Did you try a hashtag? Maybe #MakeThemLikeUs or #DaddyDidn'tLoveUsEnough . . . that should do the trick. Those fix everything right?

/s

 

[Prophet Steve]

Malicious is kind of harsh, but they've certainly undermined and interferred with their marketing efforts. Marketing schedules for announcements and 'beats' to build anticipation are planned specifically for maximum efficacy.

Not to mention the reveal of a game isn't generally done with blurry screens of a laptop on a plane. You generally want to make a bigger first impression than that.

Kotaku has their head buried so far up their ass and so deep in their delusions of grandeur on this, it's really pathetic to read.

But they haven't done any of that with the material provided by the publishers, but by gathering material themselves.

Cutting them out of that doesn't influence what Kotaku publishes. Kotaku has hold up their end of the relationship unless they have been breaking embargo's or NDA's.

Or are you expecting that an outlet would not actually try to gather news?

 

[Hoho for breakfast]

On one hand, Ubisoft and Bethesda are assholes for blacklisting a site necause they don't like what the site produces. Fine, don't send them games, but refusing to answer questions for articles is petty and obnoxious. And frankly, Ubisoft and Bethesda deserve whatever blowback that creates.

On the other hand, I'm not a fan of the incestuous nature of the existing structure of video game journalism. Sites are tied too closely to publishers, and publishers have way too much power to cripple sites by blacklisting them. I'd prefer less friendly and more advwrsarial contact. The press isn't supposed to be friends with the people they're covering. Their goals are not aligned. Publishers want to obfuscate the truth for financial reasons, and journalists should be trying to reveal the truth, regardless of the desires of the publishers.

If the video game journalism industry had any balls at all -- and I don't believe they do -- this would be a call to arms to join Kotaku in solidarity, by refusing to accept games and press releases from any publisher that thinks it can punish a site into silence. Keep covering the games, just sever your insider ties with publishers and let us know you've done it. For me, that would be a clear indicator that games journalism involving existing projects is worth reading. I currently ignore most real-time stuff, because it's so deeply infected by the rules publishers force on those reporting, that they've turned most sites into marketing arms of the publishers. It would be nice to find more sites that refuse to act as press agents for the publishers.

Well said. I agree 100%.

 

[Makonero]

On one hand, Ubisoft and Bethesda are assholes for blacklisting a site necause they don't like what the site produces. Fine, don't send them games, but refusing to answer questions for articles is petty and obnoxious. And frankly, Ubisoft and Bethesda deserve whatever blowback that creates.

On the other hand, I'm not a fan of the incestuous nature of the existing structure of video game journalism. Sites are tied too closely to publishers, and publishers have way too much power to cripple sites by blacklisting them. I'd prefer less friendly and more advwrsarial contact. The press isn't supposed to be friends with the people they're covering. Their goals are not aligned. Publishers want to obfuscate the truth for financial reasons, and journalists should be trying to reveal the truth, regardless of the desires of the publishers.

If the video game journalism industry had any balls at all -- and I don't believe they do -- this would be a call to arms to join Kotaku in solidarity, by refusing to accept games and press releases from any publisher that thinks it can punish a site into silence. Keep covering the games, just sever your insider ties with publishers and let us know you've done it. For me, that would be a clear indicator that games journalism involving existing projects is worth reading. I currently ignore most real-time stuff, because it's so deeply infected by the rules publishers force on those reporting, that they've turned most sites into marketing arms of the publishers. It would be nice to find more sites that refuse to act as press agents for the publishers.

Hear hear!

It's kind of alarming that no other website is publicly coming out in support of Kotaku. Really makes you think about how deep in bed these websites are with publishers.