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[Fantastapotamus]

The "Fuck yeah, I stand with the big company! Fuck the free press!" attitude some people here seem to have is somewhat concerning.

 

[Armaros]

Maybe all the times wrong details have also come out from some neogaf leakers, some of which end up slandering people have made posters here care a bit less.

That doesn't stop people from still clamoring for them here, and looking and asking for every tidbit.

If they believe the argument they have against Kotaku, they should be screaming for the Mods here to completely clamp down on leaks on GAF

 

[Demoskinos]

Well stop fucking leaking things then. If you're privy to information that you know will be officially announced soon, then why damage your relationship with that company by leaking it earlier? Leaks aren't doing some "public good" or bringing to light anything games need to know and can't wait a while to find out

Reporting on credible news is entirely the point of journalism. If you have the information REPORT IT. That is what journalist do.

 

[Interficium]

Hey Schreier,

If Kotaku is staffed with REAL HARD-HITTIN' GAMES JOURNALISTS like you have consistently tried to portray yourselves as the last couple years, why even bitch about "blacklists?"

Isn't the whole cozy, buddy-buddy relationship between publishers and journalists exactly the thing you're trying to rally against? Why are you bothered AT ALL by being blacklisted if you're "investigative journalists"?

 

[QaaQer]

It's amazing reading this thread.

Yeah, there are toadies in every barrel. At least there aren't loud enough to shout down conversation.

 

[Bluenoser]

I don't understand why me breaking my NDA to leak information to a writer at Kotaku is Kotaku's problem. It's my problem because I broke an NDA that I signed; Kotaku signed no such agreement with my employer.

My employer is well within their rights to "cut off" Kotaku over this, but it takes two sides to play ball in the world of entertainment media. Just as publications rely on a friendly relationship with publishers for access to information, publishers rely on friendly relationships with publications to market their products.

Because Kotaku knows it's not public, and not meant to be in the public and published it anyway. Literally the very first result in a google search tells you this.

http://www.dmlp.org/legal-guide/publishing-trade-secrets

I am looking at this from a business perspective, not as a pissing match between Kotaku and these companies.

Purely from a legal perspective, Kotaku is lucky Bethesda and Ubi didn't sue them.

 

[BiggNife]

I will never, ever understand people who are angry at sites that report leaks. They're news! Sites like Kotaku are supposed to report news! I bet these are the same people that say they can't trust reviews because they assume that early reviews have been bought out by the publisher.

A lot of news that's legitimately interesting is stuff companies don't want you to hear about, and that's why stuff like this happens. If you want a site to just be regurgitating press releases, there are plenty of sites on the internet that already do that.

 

[Heigic]

Well stop fucking leaking things then. If you're privy to information that you know will be officially announced soon, then why damage your relationship with that company by leaking it earlier? Leaks aren't doing some "public good" or bringing to light anything games need to know and can't wait a while to find out

Are you ok with all press operating like this or should video game journalism just be special in this regard?

 

[Manu]

I do some freelance work.

 

[serenewarfare]

Gaming blogs aren't on the same level of an entertainment weekly. Even the bigger sites aren't self sufficent enough to bite the hand that feeds them non stop and still get fed.

We're not talking about small-time blogs though. If Kotaku, one of the biggest gaming sites in the world, isn't at a high enough level not to get blacklisted, then that means no one is. And that's a bad thing. The subject being reported on should not dictate how and what can be reported on them.

 

[Ridill]

It is actually very disheartening to see how many people are supporting Bethesda's and Ubi's actions. I for one, don't need the big companies dictating the content that gets pushed out when it comes to the media. Game gets leaked early? Of course they should push that information out. It IS news. Just because a big company is gonna get butthurt over the leak, does not mean that the journalists need to even take that into consideration. I'm not a journalist, but to keep their journalistic integrity, they should publish information objectively without even considering the big companies.

Keep the good fight going Kotaku.

 

[codhand]

Only in this industry.

 

[Obliterator]

I mean I cant ge over the defense of not leaking going down in this thread on NEOGAF!

We have a giant thread here every month, where the entire discussion is about leaked numbers that are behind a paywall.

I mean goodness.

 

[JoduanER2]

So in every other industry when people fuck you over you then go the extra mile to help them out?

I wasn't aware of this.

Yea wtf, no one has explained why they need to cooperate with kotaku, is not their obligation to do anything as a publisher.

 

[Acerac]

The level of shitposting in this thread is insane.

People really hate Kotaku to the point where they're not just OK with this, but fully support and "defense forcing" it?

Hell, I was neutral to Kotaku but the fact that they got blacklisted actually makes me think they must be doing something right.

 

[speedomodel]

Hmm, I wonder why....

The truth is that we’ve been cut off from Bethesda since our December 2013 report detailing the existence of the then-secret Fallout 4. Ubisoft has been nearly radio silent since our December 2014 report detailing the existence of the then-unannounced Assassin’s Creed Victory (renamed Syndicate).

 

[Pathfinder]

If you're the press, and you don't have any enemies, then you're not doing your job.

 

[QaaQer]

Because Kotaku knows it's not public, and not meant to be in the public and published it anyway. Literally the very first result in a google search tells you this.

http://www.dmlp.org/legal-guide/publishing-trade-secrets

I am looking at this from a business perspective, not as a pissing match between Kotaku and these companies.

Purely from a legal perspective, Kotaku is lucky Bethesda and Ubi didn't sue them.

Legal intimidation is a thing, but come on. It isn't a trade secret ffs.

 

[Lime]

Everyone act like the publishers are always the bad guy, its a bussiness and if you are getting shit from someone why keep communicating with him, i dont get it.

ah the good ol' "it's a business" excuse, as if them looking for profits absolve them of doing immoral acts.

Yea wtf, no one has explained why they need to cooperate with kotaku, is not their obligation to do anything as a publisher.

Ubisoft and Bethesda are throwing their weight around to make the games media dance to their controlled tune. Bethesda and Ubisoft want to control the message in order to manipulate people into buying their product or hiding away any dirt (exploitation of employees)

 

[Kamina777]

I find if oh so hilariously ironic that people are actally NOT siding with Kotaku, on NEO FUCKING GAF, of all places.

This site is a haven for truthfacts and inside leaking. It is one of the main draws, and those leaker threads bring this place to it's knees sometimes.

I swear, people are conditioned to reject things and argue just for the sake of arguing. Devils advocate syndrome is hardwired.

There is no side, unless you have an agenda, then there's always a side.

The only fact is a big company excercised their legal right to chunk the duece to giving any attention to a gaming blog that they feel is detrimental to their bottom line. Sucks but thems the breaks in this business. They will survive as they always have.

 

[Felix Lighter]

Hey Schreier,

If Kotaku is staffed with REAL HARD-HITTIN' GAMES JOURNALISTS like you have consistently tried to portray yourselves as the last couple years, why even bitch about "blacklists?"

Isn't the whole cozy, buddy-buddy relationship between publishers and journalists exactly the thing you're trying to rally against? Why are you bothered AT ALL by being blacklisted if you're "investigative journalists"?

The existence of blacklists is fucking news. It should be known.

 

[Ascenion]

Is it really a secret for some of this though? I think everyone expected an Assassin's Creed sequel. "Leaking" that isn't some company secret.

It's more, imo, that the leak isn't their information to tell. I can understand both sides of this, as a journalist it is your job to report on matters of significant value to readers. I get that. If you leak my secret or anything I don't want you to then yeah I'll be mad, I'm a human being. So I get that too. The nature of this is going to cause conflict, it's just some people handle this better in more appropriate ways than others. Though for Ubisofts part, seriously control your employees. Three AC games were leaked, that's on you 100%. Basically Kotaku do your jobs to the best of your ability, publishers do what you feel necessary.

 

[Whompa02]

To be fair, a lot of their articles are sensational and click baity. I don't support blacklisting, but I also don't support their writing style.

 

[oti]

Companies aren't your friends. You shouldn't feel bad for a company if a site leaks something and hurts their marketing plan. Unless you're holding stock of said company you really shouldn't care. If you do you have to do some inner soul searching asap.

 

[Samurai G0SU]

It's time GAF did the same.

 

[leroidys]

Is it 2008? Why does everyone still hate Kotaku? Man, gamers sure know how to hold a grudge.

 

[DeepEnigma]

That doesn't stop people from still clamoring for them here, and looking and asking for every tidbit.

If they believe the argument they have against Kotaku, they should be screaming for the Mods here to completely clamp down on leaks on GAF

Bingo.

 

[daveo42]

This is part of the reason why we tend to get more "soft" journalism out of the industry. Publishers hold all the keys and if you piss them off, they cut you out of any news or information. There are alternatives to gain access to PR docs from publishers, but being denied access to those within or work with the company makes it hard to validate your information or even just get balanced news.

Game journalists will probably forever be relegated to being another arm that publishers use as part of their PR strategy and nothing else, with sites that don't play go under or move away from games entirely.

 

[Schryver]

Not sending games for review makes sense if the website has continuously written articles bashing your games, but to punish them for leaking information is just dumb imho

 

[10k]

It's time GAF did the same.

 

[Tyraniboah]

I don't want the publishers having any control over what outside, independent journalist outlets are doing. They can blacklist if they'd like, but Kotaku did nothing wrong. If it is that bothersome then these publishers need to control their information a wee bit better.

For the sake of comparison, I am a huge Indianapolis Colts fan. Reading articles on their website by their journalists is out of the question for me. All I get is PR poppycock spoon fed by the organization. It is informative in about the same way that "there will be daylight" is for a weather forecast. I go to outlets independent of the team so I can read real information of value to me. I view Kotaku and other sites the same way. They report what they believe to be valuable to their audience and I respect that.

tl;dr Kotaku did nothing wrong and publishers need to understand they don't have the control they think they have.

 

[BronsonLee]

Hmm, I wonder why....

Christ, it took them almost two years to unveil Fallout 4!

 

[The Jackdog]

im adoring the posts saying its kotakus fault for leaking things, and why is gaming culture so obsessed with getting information before its announced. Do you come on neogaf? ever? mostly every rumor or leak is posted here. the threads are huge. people are interested. right here. in leaks. if its not about a game thats out, or coming out, its about what people hope comes out and what they think is coming out.

its news lol.

is it wrong for bethesda and ubisoft to be pissed at them? probably not. is it wrong for the press to report on things? probably not. is it wrong to be excited and speculate on games? lol no wtf? why does anyone have to take a side on this? cant it just be a thing thats happened?

 

[JoduanER2]

ah the good ol' "it's a business" excuse, as if them looking for profits absolve them of doing immoral acts.



Ubisoft and Bethesda are throwing their weight around to make the games media dance to their controlled tune. Bethesda and Ubisoft want to control the message in order to manipulate people.

Inmoral? Wtf, what is so inmoral about this, lol

 

[SuperBanana]

The "Fuck yeah, I stand with the big company! Fuck the free press!" attitude some people here seem to have is somewhat concerning.

Ironically the one time it's actually about ethics in video game journalism people act like it's not.

 

[Obliterator]

If they believe the argument they have against Kotaku, they should be screaming for the Mods here to completely clamp down on leaks on GAF

I'm not a mod of course so have no inside info on that but I guarantee you Bish / EviLore / the mods etc. have heard some crazy shit from publishers about the leaks here before

 

[Fantastapotamus]

I will never, ever understand people who are angry at sites that report leaks. They're news! Sites like Kotaku are supposed to report news! I bet these are the same people that say they can't trust reviews because they assume that early reviews have been bought out by the publisher.

A lot of news that's legitimately interesting is stuff companies don't want you to hear about, and that's why stuff like this happens. If you want a site to just be regurgitating press releases, there are plenty of sites on the internet that already do that.

"Oh no, they have slightly damaged this companies carefully crafted marketing plans! Now maybe I won't be tricked into thinking this game will be awesome so easily! Damn!"

Ironically the one time it's actually about ethics in video game journalism people act like it's not.

Heh.

 

[Acerac]

Hey Schreier,

If Kotaku is staffed with REAL HARD-HITTIN' GAMES JOURNALISTS like you have consistently tried to portray yourselves as the last couple years, why even bitch about "blacklists?"

Isn't the whole cozy, buddy-buddy relationship between publishers and journalists exactly the thing you're trying to rally against? Why are you bothered AT ALL by being blacklisted if you're "investigative journalists"?

The fuck is this?

If he cares about the relationship between publishers are journalists this would be the most appropriate thing to focus on.

Did you even read what you wrote? What nonsense....

 

[LordJim]

That doesn't stop people from still clamoring for them here, and looking and asking for every tidbit.

If they believe the argument they have against Kotaku, they should be screaming for the Mods here to completely clamp down on leaks on GAF

When you stop giving shit about rumors/leaks, you don't necessarily start screaming for complete lock-down either.

 

[Glass Shark]

And people clamor for them like ravenous animals.

Yep. Which is exactly why Ubi and Bethesda are okay with blacklisting one of the biggest video game websites in the world. They're starting to bypass the press altogether and go straight to the fans who are lapping up the marketing spin and PR speak like hungry dogs.

Spoiler

"OMG CLOUD IS IN SMASH OMG I'M LITERALLY GOING TO DIE THIS IS THE BIGGEST THING THAT'S EVER HAPPENED IN VIDEO GAMES THANK YOU BASED NINTENDO"

 

[King Tubby]

No you're right , we should applaud any publisher blacklisting sites they don't like and only speaking to friendly sites.

If you don't like Kotaku fine , but your stance is fucking stupid.

I'm on Kotaku's side you idiot.

 

[Marow]

Going as far as to not even comment on news stories or anything? I find that all sorts of hilarious and sad. It says a lot about the mentality of these two companies and what entails everyone in touch with them.

All I can say is: keep up the good work Kotaku and keep digging. The site has changed a lot and I quite enjoy it now, particularly the longer pieces.

How did the movie industry escape this sort of thing? I think it was kinda common back when it was booming, right (call me out if I'm wrong, though)?

 

[gdt]

That's a shame. It's a reporter's job to dig into stuff. This is just petty.

 

[MrDaravon]

It's still shitty and I don't like it, but it's hard not to understand why some of the bigger companies would do this; in most/all cases they're publicly traded companies, some of the things that can/have gotten leaked are bad for them.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

Embargoes of embargoes of embargos. Its fucking stupid.

I still can't believe that was even a thing.

Kotaku isn't perfect, but they've only worked in the interest of the consumer. Hopefully this pisses enough people off.

Apparently not. This thread alone is full of sycophants siding with the corporations, even going so far as to think Kotaku should ask permission before printing anything. rofl

These are people who we're talking about, not some sort of PR machine that only sees human interaction as ones and zeroes. If someone keeps making my job harder (In this case Ubisoft's PR) by leaking stuff to the public, then why exactly should I then give them free games and release comments for their stories?

I don't think it's "cool" or not "cool", it's just logical that you're not going to have a professional relationship with a company that keeps doing things that hurt your PR plans.

You really have no idea how journalism works, do you? What you describe is sheer pettiness, not professionalism.

You're right, they shouldn't be partners so they shouldn't expect to get free shit from those companies.

This isn't about "free shit", WTF?

Translation: activists who belittle their own readership shunned by game companies.

Nice edit, but still a LOL statement. As far as translations go, that's a far cry worse than an NES JRPG.

Excellent, no need to placate a online "rag" publication.

Anything sent to Kotaku is much better sent to prominent Youtubers and Twitch streamers, at least with them, your game will speak the loudest and not ideology or politics. Which are the last things you want associated with a product you are trying to sell to a wide audience.

Yeah, better send those review copies to uncritical fanboys who totally don't benefit from the monetized Youtube views and subscriptions instead.

Politics in gaming? Pah, SJW nonsense. Now excuse me while I stream my Let's Play of MGS5...

 

[tuxfool]

This, stop backstabbing your partners.

Heh.

This is nice! I like this.

 

[LegatoB]

Because Kotaku knows it's not public, and not meant to be in the public and published it anyway. Literally the very first result in a google search tells you this.

http://www.dmlp.org/legal-guide/publishing-trade-secrets

I am looking at this from a business perspective, not as a pissing match between Kotaku and these companies.

Purely from a legal perspective, Kotaku is lucky Bethesda and Ubi didn't sue them.

Indeed, I'm surprised they haven't sued them --

Which suggests to me that they don't have a case and they know that.

 

[Einchy]

ah the good ol' "it's a business" excuse, as if them looking for profits absolve them of doing immoral acts.

"immortal acts" wut

Ubisoft and Bethesda are throwing their weight around to make the games media dance to their controlled tune. Bethesda and Ubisoft want to control the message in order to manipulate people into buying their product or hiding away any dirt (exploitation of employees)

You just described PR.

 

[Tigress]

I'd personally argue that reporting on the existence of unannounced games doesn't do much but instill early expectations from the fanbase which ultimately leads to a game not hitting those expectations.

There are times when reporting on leaks are okay. To me, personally, reporting big details about Fallout 4 almost 2 years in advance is not okay. Nothing good came from that expect for website hits on Kotaku, hurt feelings, early expectations and disappointed developers. Sure, whoever leaks the stuff to begin with needs to just simply not do that, but sometimes reporting on leaks can do more harm than good.

Just my two cents, I guess. Boasting that you reveal games way in advance (which has a multitude of effects on the developer, the publisher, and the fanbase) isn't exactly something to be proud of in my opinion.

Features like those exposing work conditions at Rockstar are good. Acting like a victim because you front-paged something that was not meant for public eyes (and not for any sneaky reason other than it wasn't done yet and announcing a game is a huge part of a game's marketing push) is kinda off-putting to me.

I gotta agree with this. For me it would depend on what they got blacklisted for. For bad reviews or calling out bad practices? Yeah good on them and fuck the publishers. For leaking a game years before it is finished? Well, I honestly am not going to be mad at kotaku for it, that's their right but I don't think the publisher is being unreasonable either in deciding to blacklist you which really is their only recourse and way to encourage you not to do that. And I think their reasons for why not wanting the game to be leaked yet is reasonable.

 

[Bluenoser]

Legal intimidation is a thing, but come on. It isn't a trade secret ffs.

Ok so you've demonstrated that you don't actually know what a trade secret is. What else you got?

Indeed, I'm surprised they haven't sued them --

Which suggests to me that they don't have a case and they know that.

Yup, or they just preferred to keep it quiet and simply cut them off instead.

It's alarming that Kotaku doesn't even realize that they've done any wrong.