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Kotaku: Steam Is Banning Sex Games With Young-Looking Characters
Alexios
Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
I mean, they're having tea, to have a problem with the image it would have to be something probably not even allowed to be posted on here, lol. Got no problem with the image in the op as it is myself!
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ROMhack
Member
Agreed. Steam should definitely remove its porn section. It's never going to rival PornHub.
I have a simple rule we can all follow:
Having tea? Yep that's okay.
Having tea while gratuitously asking you to check out their panties? That's a big no no.
Being asked to check out their panties while pouring hot tea on you whilst you writhe in agony? Well shit now I'm conflicted.
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M
Macapala
Unconfirmed Member
Yeah, this stuff is creepy as all hell.
Although what I don't understand is why the developers of these games can't just make the characters look like mature women. That way they can keep making their dumb sex games and no one will give a shit.
Although what I don't understand is why the developers of these games can't just make the characters look like mature women. That way they can keep making their dumb sex games and no one will give a shit.
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StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Because some devs and gamers like the pedo theme.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
This is what some of you guys don't understand. You can't use the phrase "censorship of any kind" and be taken seriously. The world can't work properly if nothing is allowed to be censored. You can't say the word "FUCK" on regular TV channels here in America. That's censorship. You can't broadcast porn on NBC TV. That's censorship too. Some forms of censorship is good. Not having any kind of censorship is horrible. There have to be rules of some kind.
brap
Banned
Because not everybody is into 40 year olds
lmao no I mean like the girls in the op look like stereotypical anime girls imo. They don't look 12 to me.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Going by your avatar, I can see why you take issue with Steam's claim. But even with that, your girl looks waaaay older than the ones in the OP.
Alexios
Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
Yeah, same as the people saying protesting against hate speech and its platforms is more fascist than neonazis because muh freedoms...
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CatCouch
Member
I think too many people confuse rules with censorship. There's lots of rules and guidelines everybody follows. That doesn't mean that rules changing and restricting what was not restricted a year ago (looking at Sony) shouldn't be debated, though.
It would benefit us all if we knew what the rules were that we are expected to follow (so people can't just argue "creepy" and ban it) and I'm not sure anyone knows with Steam now. What counts as "young looking" is not defined, as far as I know. Having intense scrutiny on art is a scary thing when you are an artist.
brap
Banned
Idk maybe it's just because I'm used to seeing all this stuff so it doesn't really bother me anymore. Never been a fan of the little girl anime genres though.
GreenAlien
Member
Just to be clear, the games in question are not illegal in the US and are or will be sold over different (legal) platforms.
What do they mean when they say "Young-Looking"? Do we need mandatory minimum breast sizes or height? What, you only have an A-Cup? No beer for you.. This should be offensive to young women everywhere.
Looking at the setting and the information given in the story is the only objective way to make a judgment. If it is like Kotaku says in the article, that the steam ban has to do with the school setting, fair enough.
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petran79
Banned
Saya no Uta would get banned on Steam as well. Just look at one of the protagonists. But it is actually one of the good horror visual novels. Thing is, the sex scenes there are completely unnecessary to the story. Steam allows Nitroplus Blasters though, a fighting game with many ero VN characters that would not be allowed on the platform either. I am on the opinion AO VN providers should either publish on specific sites or go self-publish. Age ratings by boards are not necessary in such cases anyway
sad but true
Alexios
Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
If that has unnecessary sex scenes with kids then yeah it'd get banned too, but that's not the example I gave, the scene would have a point in a whole in that case.
Plus if they're unnecessary they could simply censor it and make it a better VN without unnecessary fluff. Sure, some would scream CENSORSHIP but whatever.
Plus if they're unnecessary they could simply censor it and make it a better VN without unnecessary fluff. Sure, some would scream CENSORSHIP but whatever.
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PSFan
Member
Saya no Uta would get banned on Steam as well. Just look at one of the protagonists. But it is actually one of the good horror visual novels. Thing is, the sex scenes there are completely unnecessary to the story. Steam allows Nitroplus Blasters though, a fighting game with many ero VN characters that would not be allowed on the platform either. I am on the opinion AO VN providers should either publish on specific sites or go self-publish. Age ratings by boards are not necessary in such cases anyway
What's the matter with her? She certainly doesn't look pre-pubescent. Or is it because she's kinda flat-chested that she looks 10 or whatever?
If a game has ANY kind of sex scene with kids, it can't even be published, because that's illegal.
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Alexios
Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
Is it? So there can't be movies about child rape if they depict it at any point? Or is it restricted to games? I didn't know, not sure how to feel about that, I thought artistic mediums had more freedom if the intent clearly isn't to entice anyone to enjoy it in any way. I mean, rape is depicted in movies, I didn't know they restrict child rape. So that's the kind of example I was giving, a VN that could be about such a shitty thing actually happening to someone and say how that affects them and fucks them up or whatever. Oh well.
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TyphoonStruggle
Member
Sexualizing children is fucked up.
This is censorship that's I'm okay with.
This is censorship that's I'm okay with.
petran79
Banned
I think in-game body is that of a 14 year old or something from a game dialog. Real age is unknown
http://villains.wikia.com/wiki/Saya_(Saya_no_Uta)
When she arrived on Earth she did not exhibit many defining personality traits or quirks unlike how the player sees her throughout the visual novel. She developed her distinct personality after being engrossed in human literature for many years. She has a kind heart toward Fuminori and behaves like she has the mentality of a super intelligent child or teenager as she plays, toys, and experiments with earthling life.
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PSFan
Member
I don't think any these games actually depicts raping a child, though. And I don't recall any movies about it either or at least graphically showing it. What I was saying is outright child porn in any form is illegal, and there is nothing like that in these kind of games.
Aenima
Member
I like sexy games, but underaged girls have no place on them here in the west.
I think the reason we see many underaged girls in japanese sexy games is mainly because in japan the legal age for consentual sex is 13, so while in japan is not a big deal, in the west where most contries age of consent is 18 it comes out as pedo content.
So I agree with Steam position about this.
I think the reason we see many underaged girls in japanese sexy games is mainly because in japan the legal age for consentual sex is 13, so while in japan is not a big deal, in the west where most contries age of consent is 18 it comes out as pedo content.
So I agree with Steam position about this.
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PSFan
Member
Actually, most countries age of consent is 16. The US is an outlier in that.
Sqorin Hammerfarf
Banned
Sqorin Hammerfarf
Banned
The reason why you see younger girls in Japanese games (and anime) is because of how the Japanese education system is. Middle and high school is really when Japanese adulthood and independence begins, because once you get into college, your career path is more or less set. They've sort of fetishized that freedom, and most of their entertainment deals with characters who are coming to terms with that freedom. The parents are always missing or absent (either the kid has moved out on his own in high school - unheard of in the US, or their parents are working so much they cease to impact the kid - many in the US would consider this negligence). It's where socialization crosses between cliques, where a nerd can interact with a hot girl and it isn't weird. Once they get to working age, they drink with their coworkers, barely see their family, and rarely go out otherwise.
Basically, what has happened is that the path to adulthood in Japan happens in a very different way that it does in places like the US. It happens earlier. Here in the US, adolescence extends into your late twenties. In Japan, it is over before high school finishes. So all of their coming of age and learning to be an adult stories happen in high school, because if they were set in college, it would be too late.
The effect is that while we see children, the Japanese see adults - or at least teenagers with adult responsibilities, needs, and abilities.
Personally, I lost my virginity in high school, and because of this weird fear about teenage sexuality, I don't think I've ever seen any entertainment which honestly reflected the kind of experiences I had at that age. I think it is profoundly weird that if I were to write fiction about the kind of experiences that happened to me as a teenager, I'd be considered a pedophile by most people.
TLZ
Banned
Look at their images. Tiny kids with a "mature look". It's too obvious.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
No wonder Japan has weird pedo games.
The second a teen hits 13 years old, it's a free for all panty waving, ass bouncing and upskirting. No wonder games give you more points the better image you get in photo mode.
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Pot Meet Kettle
Member
Of course Kotaku would frame the general recent censorship spree (not just Valve but even Sony) as merely a ban on "sex games with young looking characters" after so much radio silence on the matter.
These recent censorship policies claimed Super Seducer in part because the game journalist word and the ideological alignment (the content of the game nonwithstanding) was enough for Sony to delist it. Why would game journalists criticize anything about this policy, no matter how harmful it is to consumers or developers (some had their existence in jeopardy because of the surprise extra expenses and cut off revenue streams), and why would they ever give up the power to make games they complain about actually disappear from the market? Now Super Seducer, then Senran Kagura, then Catherine and Aegis 13, then the likes of The Last Night, then A Hat in Time 2 and Internet Celebrity Cameo #123456 when they say they feel unsafe alone with women in unisex toilets.
After all, they did try and imply Vanillaware were a bunch of pedophiles over the boobs of a cartoon witch well into her thirties at the very least, after accusing the director of homophobia after he tried to debunk earlier claims that the game was sexist and mysoginist in its sexualization of women (by showing equal opportunity male sexualization to prove the opposite) that also leveled tons of personal insults at him. And it does seem the ensuing Sony censorship policies might have contributed to killing the next Vanillaware game Aegis 13.
Then just one year later, they were praising the Tokyo Mirage Sessions censorship, trying to get fan modder efforts closed then defaming these modders as klans members going from absolutely no proof other than them refusing to talk to Kotaku (who has claimed the scalps of many other modding projects, so they knew better), actually requested Atlus to remove Ryuji's imperial rising sun insigna from his shoes (which it did for the Korea version for legal reasons which Kotaku made sure to cover and comment "Good.", but not the English one to their dismay) and threw a massive fit when the localization was unexpectedly close to the original text despite all the "problematic" content (some of which didn't make it past Sony's censors, like Kaneshiro's backstory) and requested patches that "fix" the translation.
Kotaku also signal-boosted initiatives by volunteering union voice actors lending "their expertise" (FOR FREE!) to "rewrite game scripts to be better", with "tropes" in particular one of the things in their crosshairs.
One of the games they helped get delisted, Super Seducer, was met with incredible dismay by them once the developer was not only not discouraged by the setback, but announcing a sequel.
These recent censorship policies claimed Super Seducer in part because the game journalist word and the ideological alignment (the content of the game nonwithstanding) was enough for Sony to delist it. Why would game journalists criticize anything about this policy, no matter how harmful it is to consumers or developers (some had their existence in jeopardy because of the surprise extra expenses and cut off revenue streams), and why would they ever give up the power to make games they complain about actually disappear from the market? Now Super Seducer, then Senran Kagura, then Catherine and Aegis 13, then the likes of The Last Night, then A Hat in Time 2 and Internet Celebrity Cameo #123456 when they say they feel unsafe alone with women in unisex toilets.
After all, they did try and imply Vanillaware were a bunch of pedophiles over the boobs of a cartoon witch well into her thirties at the very least, after accusing the director of homophobia after he tried to debunk earlier claims that the game was sexist and mysoginist in its sexualization of women (by showing equal opportunity male sexualization to prove the opposite) that also leveled tons of personal insults at him. And it does seem the ensuing Sony censorship policies might have contributed to killing the next Vanillaware game Aegis 13.
Then just one year later, they were praising the Tokyo Mirage Sessions censorship, trying to get fan modder efforts closed then defaming these modders as klans members going from absolutely no proof other than them refusing to talk to Kotaku (who has claimed the scalps of many other modding projects, so they knew better), actually requested Atlus to remove Ryuji's imperial rising sun insigna from his shoes (which it did for the Korea version for legal reasons which Kotaku made sure to cover and comment "Good.", but not the English one to their dismay) and threw a massive fit when the localization was unexpectedly close to the original text despite all the "problematic" content (some of which didn't make it past Sony's censors, like Kaneshiro's backstory) and requested patches that "fix" the translation.
Kotaku also signal-boosted initiatives by volunteering union voice actors lending "their expertise" (FOR FREE!) to "rewrite game scripts to be better", with "tropes" in particular one of the things in their crosshairs.
One of the games they helped get delisted, Super Seducer, was met with incredible dismay by them once the developer was not only not discouraged by the setback, but announcing a sequel.
Solarstrike
Gold Member
Good. All pedo diddlers should be destroyed
TLZ
Banned
Ok. But isn't this another problem? Making an older woman/girl look like a 11/12 year old? It looks like there's a young school girl look fetish.This most depends on artstyle, for example:
Ash is much younger than her but the artstyle makes ash look older.
petran79
Banned
Gruesome stuff happens to this child looking student too, especially when it comes to her toilet needs....Steam allows it.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Sqorin Hammerfarf
Banned
You remind me of this guy who insists that anime characters are all caucasian. You can point out that they are Japanese girls, in Tokyo, with Japanese names, eating at a ramen cart and he’ll still say “they look white.”
That’s the problem with broad abstract representations, like cartoons. People see what they want to see in the absence between details.
Fuzzee
Neo Member
As long as Steam actually evaluates this content removal based on objective measurements associated with physical / potentially other characteristics associated with children. (proportions, head / body / forhead ratios, eye shape and size, etc.) it's fine. I just don't really trust Steam to weigh things equally. I just want them to have consistency with these moderation proposals. I also don't want to see a situation where they say something like "Schoolgirl outfits are inherently associated with younger people, therefore if you depict a character wearing a schoolgirl outfit, it's not allowed" Then you end up in a situation where whether it's a fighting game or a battle royale lootbox exclusive, you end up with tons of games that should be banned based on the literal rules but are ignored because Valve has attributed / forgone some context that was / wasn't present to begin with.
Side note: I do realize this is specifically about 'sex games'. That doesn't mean this policy wont propogate through the rest of the rules / standards based on this 'trial run'.
Side note: I do realize this is specifically about 'sex games'. That doesn't mean this policy wont propogate through the rest of the rules / standards based on this 'trial run'.
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Fuzzee
Neo Member
Well ideally, you want to keep them on a conventional platform like Steam, it's better to have them as a vast minority group on your platform where in which a company has relative control of the situation. (as long as valve doesn't appease them or their interests) As opposed to on a niche platform with a lack of oversight or moderation. With them on steam it means consumers have to deal with them on occasion (rarely, in most cases) but at least they're incentivised to not seek out content that's abhorrent that would be avaliable on other platforms.
MisterBrimstone
Member
"But but but.. They are all 18! They just look 10 years old" - Pedophiles that play/develop these fucking games
Burn them to the ground.
Burn them to the ground.
Sqorin Hammerfarf
Banned
Does spouting impotent vitriol on the internet make you feel better?
Did you read the article? At least one of the games makes an effort to show that these characters are 18+ (they are carded before entering an adult bookstore) because they felt it was important to the themes of the VN, and another game was to be censored on Steam and contain no adult content so it didn't need further censoring. Another one takes place in high school but contains a notice by the developers that all characters are at least 18 years or older (like all those high school sex comedies like American Pie and Porky's)
We're not talking 10,000 year old dragons that look prepubescent - these are sexually mature characters (in some of these cases) that are being unfairly penalized for using an anime art style. I'd be up there shouting it down with you if these were actually intended to be children and/or looked like prepubescent children.
I thought the deal was Japan's national law was 13, but pretty much every prefecture was 16 or older, effectively making Japan in line with a lot of other countries.
petran79
Banned
It would be better if they hire an external party for all these evaluations and ratings. Doing it internally would surely bring favoritism
