He did personally guarantee his own money when Tesla was trying to get off the ground. If Tesla failed he would be penniless iinm, although you can never keep a crazy guy like him down.
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LA Times: Elon Musk's companies (Tesla, Space X) largely depend on government $$$
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Ether_Snake
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Rebel Leader
THE POWER OF BUTTERSCOTCH BOTTOMS
I'm ok with this
AstroNut325
Member
OP, libertarians can't be reasoned with. No amount of logic and facts will get them to understand.
Rebel Leader
THE POWER OF BUTTERSCOTCH BOTTOMS
Or them
Merely pointing out the first sentence of the article doesn't mention the one thing that he actually built his fortune on.
Suikoguy
I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
Seriously, I wish we would redirect that money towards things with positive effects rather then negative.
It has nothing to do with cars, and everything to do with batteries and energy storage.
The article's title is misleading.
Most of what they point out are incentives offered by states to attract the multitudes of jobs that they are going to bring. With that being said, lets address a few of the examples:
- The Gigafactory in Nevada is expected to employ around 6,500 employees once it is operational. Elon didn't go around forcing states to give him incentives. NM, TX, AZ, and NV all were clamoring to give Tesla tax incentives because they are going to bring a hefty amount of employment to the state they reside in.
- The SolarCity production facility will create some 5,000 jobs in the area.
- For the Brownsville launch site, SpaceX is investing in the poorest city in the nation (srs) and again, promising to bring hundreds of high paying tech jobs and possible a new factory to build the BFR/MCT (Mars rocket), which in turn could employ thousands more.
- With regards to Tesla and the DoE loan, they paid it back 10 years ahead of schedule with interest.
- The majority of SpaceX's manifest is commercial launches (although NASA as a percentage of their income makes up a very large percent). The bottom line is, even if NASA was not a customer, they would be the most competitive launch service in the market and by this time next year, even without NASA launches, they will be the world's largest launch provider.
TLDR:
- Musk's companies are great sources of employment and states want them to come.
Most of what they point out are incentives offered by states to attract the multitudes of jobs that they are going to bring. With that being said, lets address a few of the examples:
- The Gigafactory in Nevada is expected to employ around 6,500 employees once it is operational. Elon didn't go around forcing states to give him incentives. NM, TX, AZ, and NV all were clamoring to give Tesla tax incentives because they are going to bring a hefty amount of employment to the state they reside in.
- The SolarCity production facility will create some 5,000 jobs in the area.
- For the Brownsville launch site, SpaceX is investing in the poorest city in the nation (srs) and again, promising to bring hundreds of high paying tech jobs and possible a new factory to build the BFR/MCT (Mars rocket), which in turn could employ thousands more.
- With regards to Tesla and the DoE loan, they paid it back 10 years ahead of schedule with interest.
- The majority of SpaceX's manifest is commercial launches (although NASA as a percentage of their income makes up a very large percent). The bottom line is, even if NASA was not a customer, they would be the most competitive launch service in the market and by this time next year, even without NASA launches, they will be the world's largest launch provider.
TLDR:
- Musk's companies are great sources of employment and states want them to come.
Orbis Tabula
Member
I'm pretty okay with the government giving money to a guy who is trying to set up colonies and Mars and shit.
PeskyToaster
Member
No shit the government is giving money to SpaceX though. Part of the government's role is to channel our collective resources in a way no one could/would do on their own. I definitely support this kind of subsidy.
ZackieChan
Member
For reasons pointed out multiple times ITT, a surprisingly dumb article and equally surprisingly shortsighted responses against Musk.
A Fish Aficionado
I am going to make it through this year if it kills me
They've payed it back. Ironically, Chrysler has saved Fiat from being broke themselves.
This.
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
What a hit piece. They might as well have taken him to task for using taxpayer funded roads and drinking up all of the taxpayer's water.
This thread is embarrassing. How is this a "hit piece"? It simply lays out a bunch of facts, it's an accounting piece. It doesn't say how you *should* feel about government funding for these ventures, it simply says that the government *does* fund these ventures. Even if you're OK with this allocation of public funds, you should want to know that it is happening.
It isn't misleading at all. It's simply true that Musk's ventures do depend on government subsidies. Article cites a dude who says that directly:
The title is only misleading if you can refute that dudes claim. None of your bullet points do that.
The article straight up says this. It never says this activity is *bad*, just that it *is*. Which is true! Recruiting "job creators" is an investment, I agree. People deserve to know what their representatives are investing their money in.
It isn't misleading at all. It's simply true that Musk's ventures do depend on government subsidies. Article cites a dude who says that directly:
The title is only misleading if you can refute that dudes claim. None of your bullet points do that.
The article straight up says this. It never says this activity is *bad*, just that it *is*. Which is true! Recruiting "job creators" is an investment, I agree. People deserve to know what their representatives are investing their money in.
It actually does seem to me to have a specific motive mainly through omission. The whole article is mostly focused on the government spending account, which is well known by anyone who reads financial news on a regular basis. It doesn't give you a full picture for why the gov't money is spent.
Saying it's for less carbon is also a bit too simplistic.
In the next line it says this guy is a short interest. That shouldn't be left out if you want to gauge his judgment.
The picture I get from it is that Musk would fail without subsidy, and possibly will fail when they dry up.
On the other hand the subsidies are mainly upfront payments for emerging technology that needs a bit of extra investment until the scale is large enough to drive prices down. It has already happened substantially with wind and solar but the article doesn't mention this, and will probably happen again with batteries, particularly after the gigafactory is built and more competitors enter the industry.
I concur.
I find the quote:
"He definitely goes where there is government money,"
To be a bit dishonest with what I know about Elon Musk. After having sold PayPal starting up an unproven company is not something you do for money even with the government incentives. Tesla was predicted by many to crash and burn.
"He definitely goes where there is government money,"
To be a bit dishonest with what I know about Elon Musk. After having sold PayPal starting up an unproven company is not something you do for money even with the government incentives. Tesla was predicted by many to crash and burn.
Napoleonthechimp
Member
Which it very nearly did.
elrechazado
Banned
Your tldr is true for every instance of corporate welfare.
IndoAssassin
Banned
Oil companies are being subsidized by the Canadian gov't.
But they write an article about a dude trying to turn to more renewable energies lol.
But they write an article about a dude trying to turn to more renewable energies lol.
At first I thought I understood the angst inside this thread. I initially I assumed people were getting flippant because they couldn't even bother read the OP's point that his libertarian friends didn't believe private companies like this received government subsidies.
But as I read more of this thread it seems like people are seeing this article as an attack ad and well... you're blind or didn't read the part that's even quoted in the OP.
Government contracts do end and it's something as an investor you should keep in the back of your mind. Other than that there is nothing alarmist or sarcastic about the article.
But as I read more of this thread it seems like people are seeing this article as an attack ad and well... you're blind or didn't read the part that's even quoted in the OP.
Government contracts do end and it's something as an investor you should keep in the back of your mind. Other than that there is nothing alarmist or sarcastic about the article.
YourMaster
Member
Have your read the article? This is not money going from governments to fossil fuel companies. These are estimates on what kind of environmental damage is done by fossil fuel.
They call is subsidies because they say it would be fair if the companies in question would have to pay additional taxes to offset the guesstimated costs.
Which does sound fair, but it is not practical at all, it is nearly impossible to measure and if one or several western countries together decide to tax oil/coal/gas companies more to stimulate alternatives this just means more money/oil for Russia and China and the like.
Much new tech starts expensive; the goal is to ramp up manufacturing potential through demand and gradually decrease price.
This type of fear is suffocating innovation. People need to understand how the economies of scale work, and what the end goal is.
Eventually, lower income and middle income families will be able to afford this stuff. And yes, one day in perhaps a hundred or two hundred years, even trips to space will be affordable for the average family. It just takes time and technology advancements.
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