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[Duxxy3]

Musk for president of the world! Woooo!!

 

[Rad-]

He has long had a reputation for wanting employees at his companies to bring concerns directly to him bypassing intervening layers of management so this is not anything new to him.

I've had a CEO like this and this has its downsides as well. It gives an image that he doesn't trust the management.

 

[ResidentWeevil13]

Isn't this something that should be fixed? if he doesn't have faith in middle management they shouldn't be there.

Corporate Culture is set from the top down. If the CEO is hands on, the next level down takes their queues from him and so on down the line.

If you've ever worked at a company where the upper management is super competitive and political, you will see that trickle down the ranks. It absolutely sucks.

If you've ever worked at a company where the upper management are workaholics and take work calls 24 hrs a day (Musk's companies probably are like this), the same behavior becomes expected of the people further down the chain.

 

[Slayven]

Seems like the standard open door letter managers send out to "cool"

With a boss like Elon, you don't need unions.

Who needs rights and protections, lets let the rich dude decide what is best!!!

That always works out

 

[Stormhammer]

almost sounds like he wants to do there job, and if he does it without getting hurt he can tell the peons they're negligent and he'll figure out ways to make people work "smarter"

 

[Vigilant Walrus]

I've had a CEO like this and this has its downsides as well. It gives an image that he doesn't trust the management.

Maybe he shouldn't?



I was at a company with a great CEO who came in with a lot of good ideas, but he was impossible to get to because the middle management which consisted of foot soldiers who had stuck around for a number years was now being toxic at middle management and stifling communication. No leadership or management skills, unprofessionalism (making employees cry, yelling at them). it's the most insane thing I have ever been apart of.
I know call centers and service centers are not famous for being the best place to work, but this was truly extreme. And I feel bad for the CEO, because he was new and seemed inspiring and sincere. I wanted to tell the guy that these 4 middle level managements are toxic and damaging to 100+ employees well being and that its not a good idea to make leaders out of people just because they talked into a telephone for 7 years.


Managing skills takes something more than what you can learn in business school. There is an art and a level of awareness, finesse and compassion you have as someone who has an afinity to get the best out of people as well as dealing with employees special needs. It's hard to teach, and even more difficult to track and measure. And that is why most people would give up a pay rise if they could get a new manager/boss.

Poor leadership is a stable of many sectors of the workplace and in many industries. I'm not sure Musk is a great leader. Or Steve Jobs or Larry Page, or other succesful entreupreneurs. It's one thing to be someone who can make a vision happen and who has a lot of succces and renown, and it's an entirely different thing to be a great leader who can make people better. Better at being them, better at their job and making all of them better together.



If you've ever had a great boss you know the power of it. You know how it feels like to want to walk through fire for a bosses vision because you connect with the goals and the mission and the project. It stops being about the money, but becomes about trying to achieve something, and that can create meaning and purpose in ways that no normal job can. It's a powerful feeling.
I wish we talked about it a lot more, what it means to have a great boss and being around great people like that.

 

[jimmypython]

good intention i guess?

I obvious don't know about Musk enough to form an opinion on him. What I know, however, is that to have a control freaky boss is extremely frustrating. Not sure if Musk belongs to this kind but not trusting his various management teams is a sign of lacking the ability in selecting the right persons for the posts.

I've had a CEO like this and this has its downsides as well. It gives an image that he doesn't trust the management.

yep

 

[Saganator]

I know a guy who knows a guy who works at SpaceX. Word is when Elon comes in, it's like the movie Devil Wears Prada, where everyone scrambles to look busy to not draw the attention of Elon. Dude is intense as fuck, and if he gets a hint that someone isn't dedicated or isn't up to his standards, they're gone.

 

[Tal Shiar Agent]

Whistleblowers are heroes.

Well Snowden is a Russian agent who was tasked with and succeeded in stealing classified information to destabilize the United States. So no, not a whistleblower.

 

[Giant Panda]

I like Musk but I wouldn't want to work at his companies because from what I've read on the internet required to work insane hours. I hope he fixes that, and it would likely improve safety as well. Exhausted employees are less alert and much more likely to make mistakes.

 

[aeolist]

if he really cared about the well being of his employees he wouldn't have tried to stop them from unionizing

 

[espher]

Just stating logic / sentiment that I see quite often when Snowden is discussed. Also why so many applaud Manning, she stuck around to be caught (yes, caught) and be held responsible for her doings.

She is hero where Snowden is traitorous piece of shit.

Oddly, in most contexts, I see the reverse sentiment based on what both parties leaked.

 

[bachikarn]

Maybe he shouldn't?



I was at a company with a great CEO who came in with a lot of good ideas, but he was impossible to get to because the middle management which consisted of foot soldiers who had stuck around for a number years was now being toxic at middle management and stifling communication. No leadership or management skills, unprofessionalism (making employees cry, yelling at them). it's the most insane thing I have ever been apart of.
I know call centers and service centers are not famous for being the best place to work, but this was truly extreme. And I feel bad for the CEO, because he was new and seemed inspiring and sincere. I wanted to tell the guy that these 4 middle level managements are toxic and damaging to 100+ employees well being and that its not a good idea to make leaders out of people just because they talked into a telephone for 7 years.


Managing skills takes something more than what you can learn in business school. There is an art and a level of awareness, finesse and compassion you have as someone who has an afinity to get the best out of people as well as dealing with employees special needs. It's hard to teach, and even more difficult to track and measure. And that is why most people would give up a pay rise if they could get a new manager/boss.

Poor leadership is a stable of many sectors of the workplace and in many industries. I'm not sure Musk is a great leader. Or Steve Jobs or Larry Page, or other succesful entreupreneurs. It's one thing to be someone who can make a vision happen and who has a lot of succces and renown, and it's an entirely different thing to be a great leader who can make people better. Better at being them, better at their job and making all of them better together.



If you've ever had a great boss you know the power of it. You know how it feels like to want to walk through fire for a bosses vision because you connect with the goals and the mission and the project. It stops being about the money, but becomes about trying to achieve something, and that can create meaning and purpose in ways that no normal job can. It's a powerful feeling.
I wish we talked about it a lot more, what it means to have a great boss and being around great people like that.

I agree. In my experience, middle management should not be trusted.

I work for a large but older company. High level executives have actually had some good ideas sometimes that they try and push, but we never see it because middle management dilutes or ignores it.

 

[Vermillion]

I don't know what it is with tech companies and this weird ass hero worship that happens but there it is. I believe musk is a good person and walks the talk, but management in these companies never adhered quite to what the CEO wants. I've experienced this first hand.

I've been reading a little "Disrupted" (book about HubSpot's culture), and it sounded the same. Super busy CEOs who have many managers below them that end up messing up the execution and ruining things for some employees.

 

[Spacebar]

Read the book on Musk by Ashlee Vance. There are multiple people in the book who said Musk does this all the time. This isn't some PR piece.

 

[manhack]

if he really cared about the well being of his employees he wouldn't have tried to stop them from unionizing

Unions can cause as much harm as they can good. Just because you don't want a union in your company doesn't mean you are intent on exploiting your employees.

And just to be clear: I support the right of everyone to form a union and hope the laws of the US support and protect that right going forward. I just don't think unions are the right fit for every workplace.

 

[Sane_Man]

Well Snowden is a Russian agent who was tasked with and succeeded in stealing classified information to destabilize the United States. So no, not a whistleblower.

Your avatar needs a tin foil hat.

 

[IronRinn]

Unions can cause as much harm as they can good. Just because you don't want a union in your company doesn't mean you are intent on exploiting your employees.

And just to be clear: I support the right of everyone to form a union and hope the laws of the US support and protect that right going forward. I just don't think unions are the right fit for every workplace.

Which is a decision to be made by workers, not the people benefiting from their labor.

 

[Muffin1611]

Well Snowden is a Russian agent who was tasked with and succeeded in stealing classified information to destabilize the United States. So no, not a whistleblower.

Together with your avatar I hope this is sarcasm.

Please be sarcasm.

Which is a decision to be made by workers, not the people benefiting from their labor.

Yup, pretty much. As long as his workers aren't given the choice to do so, I don't have too much sympathy for the rich guy, however he may treat his workers.

 

[Byakuya769]

Wow, what an impressive piece of PR.

Both the email and the gaf post.

 

[kess]

Well, Snowden is a criminal. Musk is the CEO of one of the most important and interesting companies out there. His products help to push all the other car companies to keep up in the race for electric cars and solar power.

Musk is also singlehandedly keeping our hopes of being a multi-planet species alive with SpaceX. As the government space programs lose funding and decrease in viability. Private space exploration (right now led by Musk) is the best chance we have at actually going to Mars. Our government is not going to take us to Mars (because it is too costly), but private companies will.

I think this is more indicative of a systemic failure of government that thrusts a single man into paramount importance. One could even argue that he is a product of that system, one that relies on intentional saviors.

 

[Slayven]

Both the email and the gaf post.

And both were free!!

 

[Tal Shiar Agent]

Together with your avatar I hope this is sarcasm.

Please be sarcasm.

And what's wrong with my avatar?

 

[geestack]

With a boss like Elon, you don't need unions.

because elon was so quick to fix the problem of mandatory overtime causing unsafe working conditions?

people really fucking hate unions

 

[LordOfChaos]

"I will then go down to the production line and perform the same task they perform"



Whether or not this is PR aimed, this alone is awesome and hopefully improves conditions. When the CEO can be down for an inspection at any point, managers will be tightening up too.

 

[Muffin1611]

And what's wrong with my avatar?

Nothing wrong, it just seems a bit comical to say someone is a foreign agent when evidence suggest otherwise, while having the American flag in their avatar.

I've seen a bunch of those "patriots" on various platforms.

 

[cackhyena]

Well Snowden is a Russian agent who was tasked with and succeeded in stealing classified information to destabilize the United States. So no, not a whistleblower.

A Russian agent? Have I been living under a rock?

 

[aeolist]

A Russian agent? Have I been living under a rock?

that sounds like something a russian spy would say 🤔

 

[cackhyena]

that sounds like something a russian spy would say 🤔

Look I just want the facts. Everything I do is for the motherla...my country.

 

[Tal Shiar Agent]

Nothing wrong, it just seems a bit comical to say someone is a foreign agent when evidence suggest otherwise, while having the American flag in their avatar.

I've seen a bunch of those "patriots" on various platforms.

Notice the position of the flag. An American flag flying upside down is a "signal of dire distress in instances of extreme danger to life or property".

I added that the day after Trump got elected and it'll stay until he and his conspirators are out of government.

 

[Muffin1611]

Notice the position of the flag. An American flag flying upside down is a "signal of dire distress in instances of extreme danger to life or property".

I added that the day after Trump got elected and it'll stay until he and his conspirators are out of government.

I see, never knew that.

...

Goddamnit, now I still don't know if you were being serious with that Snowden comment, Poe's law in full effect here.

 

[adamsappel]

Well Snowden is a Russian agent who was tasked with and succeeded in stealing classified information to destabilize the United States. So no, not a whistleblower.

That's, uh, something new.

Unions can cause as much harm as they can good. Just because you don't want a union in your company doesn't mean you are intent on exploiting your employees.

And just to be clear: I support the right of everyone to form a union and hope the laws of the US support and protect that right going forward. I just don't think unions are the right fit for every workplace.

I can understand management and even workers not wanting a national union presence, but every business should have an internal union shop. There are systemic employee issues that should not have to be handled on a per-employee basis, by the employee themselves.

Nothing wrong, it just seems a bit comical to say someone is a foreign agent when evidence suggest otherwise, while having the American flag in their avatar.

I've seen a bunch of those "patriots" on various platforms.

His American flag is upside-down; he's protesting, though I haven't heard his particular Snowden criticism before now.

 

[Sectorseven]

Isn't his goal to automate almost the entire manufacturing process?

 

[nekkid]

Good on him.

Edit: just reading another article about him firing a woman who accused the company of sexual harassment today, and it seems like this is just classic PR damage control.

https://www.theguardian.com/technol...es-aj-vandermeyden-lawsuit-sexual-harrassment

It's worth looking at some of the details of that case. There's something definitely questionable about her reasons for suing, and her male colleagues being employed above her may have far more to do with her experience and education than her sex.

But it's not a finished case, so worth waiting before making definite conclusions.

 

[Khoryos]

Isn't his goal to automate almost the entire manufacturing process?

I think his goal is to automate all manufacturing processes, everywhere.

 

[Sectorseven]

I think his goal is to automate all manufacturing processes, everywhere.

There's some very awkward subtext to all of this.

"Don't worry, I'll make sure this never happens again, by having a robot do it."

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Read the book on Musk by Ashlee Vance. There are multiple people in the book who said Musk does this all the time. This isn't some PR piece.

It's probably too much to expect people to read an actual book before going in Internet forums and posting their hot takes of the day. I mean just look at half the posts on this thread. I'm not surprised at all by some of the responses.

 

[Paganmoon]

Corporate Culture is set from the top down. If the CEO is hands on, the next level down takes their queues from him and so on down the line.

If you've ever worked at a company where the upper management is super competitive and political, you will see that trickle down the ranks. It absolutely sucks.

If you've ever worked at a company where the upper management are workaholics and take work calls 24 hrs a day (Musk's companies probably are like this), the same behavior becomes expected of the people further down the chain.

What's any of that have to do with the CEO wanting people to bypass middle management? If the CEO does not put trust in them, there is something wrong, and they should be replaced. I mean if the CEO does not put trust in them, I don't think the people the manager is responsible for trust them either.

 

[sphagnum]

Well Snowden is a Russian agent who was tasked with and succeeded in stealing classified information to destabilize the United States. So no, not a whistleblower.

The Russian agent thing is Louise Mensch nonsense.

And screw this bourgeois hero worship. Let them have a union.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

What's any of that have to do with the CEO wanting people to bypass middle management? If the CEO does not put trust in them, there is something wrong, and they should be replaced. I mean if the CEO does not put trust in them, I don't think the people the manager is responsible for trust them either.

It's more of the flat management structure associated with a startup mentality. That's how Musk has always managed, with a hands-on, directly to the problem approach. It has nothing to do with trust or lack thereof, it's just that Musk sees a problem and wants it solved and he'll do it himself if he has to. So far in his lifetime he's had to it himself more often than not, which is why he started a car company just to make electric cars.

 

[wildfire]

He demands the absolute maximum from his employees. Your life basically becomes working for him, at least thats what it seems.

That mind sound bad, however, he is probably the same, if not even more extreme, so it's not like he is this lazy fat CEO doing nothing all day exploiting his workforce. He probably works more than any of his employees and sleeps less.

Considering that he does this to save us from ourselves, I really can't be mad about it.

No manager or owner should expect 100% commitment from their staff. In fact it's healthier to have a company with those who look beyond your company because they bring in additional knowledge that can be leveraged to refine your business and sometimes you'll want to cut back on employees. Those leaving voluntarily and amicably reduce the pressure of restructuring and downsizing departments.

 

[HStallion]

It's probably too much to expect people to read an actual book before going in Internet forums and posting their hot takes of the day. I mean just look at half the posts on this thread. I'm not surprised at all by some of the responses.

Yeah because we're supposed to be blown away by a minor bit of company PR.

 

[titiklabingapat]

I know a guy who knows a guy who works at SpaceX. Word is when Elon comes in, it's like the movie Devil Wears Prada, where everyone scrambles to look busy to not draw the attention of Elon. Dude is intense as fuck, and if he gets a hint that someone isn't dedicated or isn't up to his standards, they're gone.

I personally know someone who used to works for corporate at Tesla and he said the same thing. Working conditions at Tesla at the time is apparently not very good so he left. This was a couple years ago (and now we debate what I meant by 'couple' lol).

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Yeah because we're supposed to be blown away by a minor bit of company PR.

You only believe it's a minor bit of PR if you're literally ignorant about the person sending the email and his actual history.

 

[HStallion]

You only believe it's a minor bit of PR if you're literally ignorant about the person sending the email and his actual history.

I'm well aware of who he is and his history and yet again, am I supposed to be impressed? It seems like a whole lot of nothing except to say,"He's with you"

 

[PSqueak]

Despite that description on the OP, there is just something fishy about "report all accidents [that would likely be lawsuit potential] to me an not anybody else!".

 

[Unknown Soldier]

I'm well aware of who he is and his history and yet again, am I supposed to be impressed? It seems like a whole lot of nothing except to say,"He's with you"

So you're saying a normal CEO would take a report of an injury of a line worker directly from the worker and then go down to the factory floor and try working that job himself to see if there are issues that need addressing? Because I never heard of any CEO who would do this besides Elon Musk.

 

[Dopus]

Well Snowden is a Russian agent who was tasked with and succeeded in stealing classified information to destabilize the United States. So no, not a whistleblower.

Tinfoil_hat.jpeg

 

[Weckum]

He went from hero to piece of shit traitor who deserves to be shot behind the shed when he didn't stick around to be thrown into pitch black pit.

Snowden has said more than once that's he willing to face a fair trial, which he will not get as of now.

Also, before you get all 'but he's in Russia now, that traitor!', know that he's stuck there because the United States revoked his passport, stranding him there.

edit: I see sg_17 did the whole 'he's a Russian traitor' thing. If he's an agent stealing secrets for the Russians, why did he make them public instead of just handing over his drive with secrets to the Russians without telling the world.

 

[HStallion]

So you're saying a normal CEO would take a report of an injury of a line worker directly from the worker and then go down to the factory floor and try working that job himself to see if there are issues that need addressing? Because I never heard of any CEO who would do this besides Elon Musk.

Yet again am I supposed to be impressed or something by a company letter that's a couple paragraphs long? Maybe if I see Elon Musk actually working machinery on the line I'll be a bit more impressed but as of now its just a bit of PR to me. Nice PR but that's about it.