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[Ecto311]

I try to listen to all of these podcasts even though they spoil most games I haven't touched yet - I figure if the spoilers are good enough I will look into the game.

My issue with Abby isn't the views she has but the fact she is so prominent on these when she is one of the newest people. I know if I was in that room in her position I would sit back for a bit like Jason or Jan does. It seems obnoxious to just blab on about games no one else cares about.

It's like getting a new person at a job you have been at for 10 years and they won't stfu about things when you know better. It destroys all things she has to say no matter her views or politics. It feels like they let this go on because of the possible backlash of her being put in her appropriate place.

You have to remember though, she does have a passion for video editing editing or whatever, which actually -is- her job. The games stuff is just ancillary. I'm sure that blows some 24/7er's minds, but to some there are in fact other things besides games and not everyone focuses on them with every fiber of being.

If it is ancillary then why talk so much when there are people in the same room that do concentrate on them as their profession? She talks in these as much if not more than the guys who founded this whole thing. The dream daddy shit was insufferable to listen to and ruined a lot of the last discussions at least for me.

 

[strange headache]

It's literally one of the top 3 reasons why I see people say why they hate her.

Remember when she played Okami for 5 hours with inverted camera controls because she couldn't find the setting in the options menu?



Quality review right there

 

[Ailike]

It's like getting a new person at a job you have been at for 10 years and they won't stfu about things when you know better. It destroys all things she has to say no matter her views or politics. It feels like they let this go on because of the possible backlash of her being put in her appropriate place.

So you're imply she's uppity and needs to know her place? That's the discourse you want to go with? What makes someone an expert? When can an opinion, be valid? We tolerate dumb opinions on this board all the time from supposed 'experts'. What makes our dumb opinions more wisened than someone else's? Everyone can have an opinion. It's your choice whether you can be swayed by it. Letting it get to you or using it to inform your own opinion is where real maturity is. Blaming other opinions, even if they're dumb, on global takedown conspiracies and doomsaying is just silly. If those other opinions are so wrong, then consider them outliers to your own, and move on. I'm a 50/50 with Abby personally, but to make a topic on one individual person as the thing that's wrong with the entire gaming industry is...childish.

 

[Vampire On Titus]

You personally can just dislike her takes and listen mainly for the people that you do like. I like maybe 33% of her takes, but I can respect about 66% of her takes. The last 34% are utter trash opinions (your example of her opinion of God of War is an example of this).

But at some point, you need to be able to tolerate people that you disagree with. Everyone doesn't have to agree with you or have your same perspective.

I have a similar breakdown of appreciation for Abby's contributions to the site. Perhaps slightly more negative. Slightly. But being able to tolerate people you disagree with does not mean staving off warranted criticism either. Criticizing something doesn't mean you're intolerant of it.

She does have a lot of full blown SJW takes and she will assert herself as an authority for women as a class, which gives people little to no room for disagreement. I can recall several moments like this met with awkward silence. People are going to notice stuff like this, especially if it's on a website they've frequented for years and years.

At the end of the Gitarooman GBE playdate she pitched a fit because the love interest in the game turns out to be (momentarily) evil. Apparently violating some story-telling faux pax she's concerned with. It was a childish outburst where all other commentary was meant to stop while her feelings are contended with. It's not the only time that's happened. Can this be pointed out or is that intolerant?

 

[Petrae]

You have to remember though, she does have a passion for video editing editing or whatever, which actually -is- her job. The games stuff is just ancillary. I'm sure that blows some 24/7er's minds, but to some there are in fact other things besides games and not everyone focuses on them with every fiber of being.

The expectation— which is apparently wrong— is that Giant Bomb is a gaming-centric web destination. I really don’t care to hear from someone who’s a video editor or a tax advisor or a Human Resources intern or some other unrelated-yet-kinda-related position and doesn’t really have the credentials to talk about the topics at hand. For me, it adds nothing but noise to the conversation, and this is made worse by the sociopolitical angle that she insists on forcing into the conversation.

If Giant Bomb just wants to be an assortment of random people talking about stuff that they may or may not have experience or expertise in, that’s the management’s prerogative... but it doesn’t sound at all like something I’d extract much enjoyment or enrichment from.

 

[iconmaster]

Abby in GOTY is why I stopped visiting Giant Bomb. Much happier for it.

 

[Scopa]

She might be somewhat tolerable if she studied a thesaurus instead of gleaning her vocabulary from Twitter and coming across as infantile.

She should be banned from saying “I find it so satisfying” until the end of time. Seriously, what.the.fuck?

 

[ThatGamingDude]

My issue with Abby isn't the views she has but the fact she is so prominent on these when she is one of the newest people. I know if I was in that room in her position I would sit back for a bit like Jason or Jan does. It seems obnoxious to just blab on about games no one else cares about.

It's like getting a new person at a job you have been at for 10 years and they won't stfu about things when you know better. It destroys all things she has to say no matter her views or politics. It feels like they let this go on because of the possible backlash of her being put in her appropriate place.

If it is ancillary then why talk so much when there are people in the same room that do concentrate on them as their profession? She talks in these as much if not more than the guys who founded this whole thing. The dream daddy shit was insufferable to listen to and ruined a lot of the last discussions at least for me.

I think this would be likely due to not wanting to seem confrontational to avoid any back lash that it continued and it continued being directed at Abby this year; it might give some voice that it's because she's the only woman on crew, truth or not.

That and in a corporate environment (Which they are in, CBSi and all) it would likely HAVE to be reviewed with the employee off the air because of HR reasons.

I don't watch much "normal," news to know if those sort of performance discussions happens regularly on CBS/CBSi products or not.

On the flip, if she didn't contribute to the discussion, people could say "She doesn't really contribute a whole lot to the conversation; why is she even there instead of Jan?"

Remember when she played Okami for 5 hours with inverted camera controls because she couldn't find the setting in the options menu?



Quality review right there

Yeahhhh...I think they were letting her test the waters with other game genres...

She seems to have most experience in games like The Sims and point and click adventures; more of the "Chill and play," focused with picking up the occasional "Focus and play," game.

-=-=-
All in all it seems to me like they're trying to broaden their scope of games while preparing to pass the torch so that the seniors can focus on other things behind the scenes or resign their position. They could also be prepping for what they're predicting becomes >>A<< (Meaning there can be multiple) major landscape in gaming. As misguided as some may say picking up Abby is, all a part of the learning curve. I tend to believe that Giant Bomb has a lead on that curve compared to other outlets like Kotaku and Waypoint.

 

[Nikana]

You have to remember though, she does have a passion for video editing editing or whatever, which actually -is- her job. The games stuff is just ancillary. I'm sure that blows some 24/7er's minds, but to some there are in fact other things besides games and not everyone focuses on them with every fiber of being.

If that was just her job then I'd agree but it's not. Part of her job is to be a personality for giant bomb. To which she isn't good at.

 

[Scopa]

All in all it seems to me like they're trying to broaden their scope of games while preparing to pass the torch so that the seniors can focus on other things behind the scenes or resign their position. They could also be prepping for what they're predicting becomes >>A<< (Meaning there can be multiple) major landscape in gaming. As misguided as some may say picking up Abby is, all a part of the learning curve. I tend to believe that Giant Bomb has a lead on that curve compared to other outlets like Kotaku and Waypoint.

I agree with you in the sense that this is what they are trying to do, but I would bet my house that it is a bad business move and they are already feeling the affect. Their begging for subs lately is bordering on “I’ll suck your dick” territory. It’s pathetic.

 

[Optimus Lime]

The expectation— which is apparently wrong— is that Giant Bomb is a gaming-centric web destination. I really don’t care to hear from someone who’s a video editor or a tax advisor or a Human Resources intern or some other unrelated-yet-kinda-related position and doesn’t really have the credentials to talk about the topics at hand. For me, it adds nothing but noise to the conversation, and this is made worse by the sociopolitical angle that she insists on forcing into the conversation.

If Giant Bomb just wants to be an assortment of random people talking about stuff that they may or may not have experience or expertise in, that’s the management’s prerogative... but it doesn’t sound at all like something I’d extract much enjoyment or enrichment from.

This throws up a really interesting question for me, which sits at the heart of much of this discussion.

In 2018, now that we have access to Youtube, and Twitch, and Reddit, and a million other opportunities for self-publishing one's opinions to an international audience, what is a critic?

Historically - and this is my informal, off the top of my head definition so take it with a grain of salt - a critic was an individual who had accrued a cachet of either industry or academic experience in a specific discipline or medium, and by combining this with superior writing/communication skills, offered the general public both a sense of the consumer value of a good/work/object, and a more advanced analysis through cultural/critical/theoretical lenses. Examples of this might be Pauline Kael or George Plimpton, or Hunter S. Thompson, or Lester Bangs. These were highly experienced craftspeople working in and around their disciplines, with bodies of work that could be scathing and deeply assaultive towards their objects of inquiry, but they also had the power to enhance the experience of consumption by highlighting one or more aspects of the piece, and the context around it.

Fast forward to 2018. What's a critic?

A critic is a person employed by what is, largely, a failing industry. They may have extensive experience (Jeff Gerstman), or simply be likeable (Dan Ryckert), or have no experience whatsoever (Abby Russell). They may don themselves in the academic trappings of traditional criticism (Austin Walker), or they may see criticism as an instrument for advancing their political agenda in the name of 'doing better' (Patrick Klepek). Ultimately, though, the thing that defines them as a critic is simple - they are a critic because that is the job title that they hold. They rarely offer insights that are any more advanced, challenging, or revelatory than those offered by sNiP0R-mAdMaN2003's Youtube channel, or by the Redditor who was gifted gold because he thinks Warframe is better than Destiny.

Their work is, however, a product of the age in which we live. For the most part it is shallow, traffic-driven, and obsessed with views, clicks, and engagement telemetry. These are not people who are invested in the rigorous study of a discipline. Their function has been almost completely displaced by player-driven citizen media. What makes Jeff's, Brad's, or Abby's opinions any more important or revelatory than those posted to NeoGAF every day?

The answer is - they're not. There's nothing special or unique about any of the stuff that GiantBomb does. Their utility has been completely erased by Youtube and Twitch. So, they're substituting politics as cruise control for controversy, in an attempt to boost their traffic, and please CBS. They are riding that digital wave while the riding is still possible. There is no video game equivalent of Lester Bangs reviewing Astral Weeks, not yet, anyway. And, if there ever is, facile dinosaurs like the Giant Bomb crew are not going to be the ones to deliver it.

 

[Arkage]

The problem isn't having a SJW voice on your team. That's fine. The problem is being too afraid to push back on those SJW opinions because you don't want to get hate mail/boycotted by the SJW mob. This seems to be what's happening here.

Don't support institutions or people too chickenshit to call out opinions they disagree with due to political optics.

 

[ThatGamingDude]

I agree with you in the sense that this is what they are trying to do, but I would bet my house that it is a bad business move and they are already feeling the affect. Their begging for subs lately is bordering on “I’ll suck your dick” territory. It’s pathetic.

I would disagree on the "I'll suck your dick," territory.

I would say that was more in the days of The Big Live Live Show; which didn't make such a huge come back after Will Smith (Not Fresh Prince) did some things that building ops would not be too happy about if they didn't get prior auth, and they seemed to tone down a bit after that.

My interpretation is that they were fast and loose and doing their own thing, but as they became more recognized them being wild with say Dave Lang and others while on the air started garnering more phone calls to CBSi and other conference call type situations and well, shit rolls down hill.

After that they had to find a way to keep up the subs, without garnering negative perception, while still being focused on games, and dodging not only previous directives from management but trying to comply with those in the current polarized state of western society.

I also think they may have hired the noobs so they can give feedback to the seniors as what may get polarized within their demographics.

To be honest, I would take Abby over Austin or Patrick, although I thought they both produced great content, they just weren't my vibe.

EDIT: I forgot to say I would say it's a good short term move, but is completely 100% unsustainable long term. Since what they're doing gives them a lot of room to pivot, I would say they're thinking about it being short term as well and letting the dust settle. Sometimes ya gotta make that bad short term decision to get a good long term one going, bad as that is to say.

-=-=-=-
The party has to end sometime folks; don't worry, party will be back at some point, everyone's gotta rest and plan the next party to keep it fresh, yeah?

 

[A.Romero]

I listen to this podcast weekly. It's the only gaming podcast I listen to for a few reasons, mostly because, at least to me, the crew sounds like they know what they are talking about and are aware about many things in the industry (which is my main topic of interest, I don't care a lot about reviews). Also, technically they are one of the best sounding podcasts (good microphones, no noise, clear speech, etc). I'm open to suggestions, though!

I don't watch twitch or youtube shows. I don't know why but it just doesn't work for me that way. I rather listen to podcasts while I'm driving around (I drive around quite a bit because of my work). I have never visited GB's site or watched any of their videos. It might be related to the fact that I'm 35 and find no pleasure in watching other people play. I don't even know what they look like nor I think I could remember their names (other than Jeff's and Dan's for some reason).

There are many opinions they have that I don't agree with but it doesn't matter. I find some of the information they share valuable to me.

That said, I started listening to their GOTY 2018 series today and was disappointed to hear that who I remember as the "Dream Daddy girl" was on it again. I even thought of starting a thread here about it to see if other people shared the same opinion. I don't care she is a woman nor what her gaming or political preferences are. I just want to listen to well thought opinions and arguments about gaming. She simply can't articulate an opinion as professionally as the rest of the cast and it annoys me. Even worse, I feel like the rest of the team also feels a bit annoyed but put an effort not to dismiss her opinions.

It might be enough for me to stop listening to the series, I'm not sure yet.

However, I know I spend no money and the podcast is free and I will probably never purchase any product advertised there so I can't complain too much and would hardly raise an issue directly to them. After reading this thread I realize that they probably got enough feedback about it and decided not to take any actions. I'm a big proponent of free speech and creative freedom so congrats to them.

I read most of the posts in this thread and I find some of the arguments defending her laughable at best. She is not as good as the rest of the team. She might need more experience or whatever but the fact remains. She is noticeable for the wrong reasons. I think it's fair to share such an opinion in a public forum and it's OK. Maybe she cares enough to improve, maybe she doesn't care about stranger's (their customers) opinions. Doesn't matter, it's not about putting her down, it's about criticizing a product related to gaming and that's pretty much what most of us do here on a daily basis. I don't think criticizing someone's performance at their job as a customer is offending at all, plus is something all people in media are exposed to.

I bet GB can make a better choice to invite to the table and discuss GOTY.

 

[TheSadRanger]

They all old af at this point anyways. If it wasn't for CBS not giving a shit about money they'd be Easy Allies at this point.

Hell Jeff did the Metal Gear Solid review 20 years ago for PSX for gamespot.

 

[A.Romero]

They all old af at this point anyways. If it wasn't for CBS not giving a shit about money they'd be Easy Allies at this point.

Hell Jeff did the Metal Gear Solid review 20 years ago for PSX for gamespot.

I think there is room in media for older people. I rather listen to these guys having the same context of gaming as I am than listening to someone who's oldest gaming memory dates back to the Wii. Personally I think they have a shit ton of experience and particularly like when they talk about how the industry has evolved. I kind of remember they recently talked about the first E3 one of them attended to. I feel that's interesting and important. It provides context and better understanding of why things are the way they are.

 

[Dunki]

Come on dude. She said God of War is her 4th game of the year. 4th! We really going to kill her opinion over that seeding?

I do not care about places. I see her way and level of debate culture and Think she should not be in there because he argues as a child raised by Twitter. Is is a Nier Situation? No it is not bu that maybe also because no such a "offensive" game will be nominated anyway.

Her saying that she will get a lot of shit for her opinion was on the Nier level trying to fetch sympathy because she is so oppressed in her Opinion.

I will stay. She killed GB for me Something Patrick or Austin never archived. I always had different views than Patrick or Austin but they actually could argue. Abby can not. And she is very manipulative.

 

[MayauMiao]

Never bothered with Giantbomb. Everyone there look miserable and they made it worst after KCD controversy.

 

[ThatGamingDude]

I listen to this podcast weekly. It's the only gaming podcast I listen to for a few reasons, mostly because, at least to me, the crew sounds like they know what they are talking about and are aware about many things in the industry (which is my main topic of interest, I don't care a lot about reviews). Also, technically they are one of the best sounding podcasts (good microphones, no noise, clear speech, etc). I'm open to suggestions, though!

I don't watch twitch or youtube shows. I don't know why but it just doesn't work for me that way. I rather listen to podcasts while I'm driving around (I drive around quite a bit because of my work). I have never visited GB's site or watched any of their videos. It might be related to the fact that I'm 35 and find no pleasure in watching other people play. I don't even know what they look like nor I think I could remember their names (other than Jeff's and Dan's for some reason).

There are many opinions they have that I don't agree with but it doesn't matter. I find some of the information they share valuable to me.

That said, I started listening to their GOTY 2018 series today and was disappointed to hear that who I remember as the "Dream Daddy girl" was on it again. I even thought of starting a thread here about it to see if other people shared the same opinion. I don't care she is a woman nor what her gaming or political preferences are. I just want to listen to well thought opinions and arguments about gaming. She simply can't articulate an opinion as professionally as the rest of the cast and it annoys me. Even worse, I feel like the rest of the team also feels a bit annoyed but put an effort not to dismiss her opinions.

It might be enough for me to stop listening to the series, I'm not sure yet.

However, I know I spend no money and the podcast is free and I will probably never purchase any product advertised there so I can't complain too much and would hardly raise an issue directly to them. After reading this thread I realize that they probably got enough feedback about it and decided not to take any actions. I'm a big proponent of free speech and creative freedom so congrats to them.

I read most of the posts in this thread and I find some of the arguments defending her laughable at best. She is not as good as the rest of the team. She might need more experience or whatever but the fact remains. She is noticeable for the wrong reasons. I think it's fair to share such an opinion in a public forum and it's OK. Maybe she cares enough to improve, maybe she doesn't care about stranger's (their customers) opinions. Doesn't matter, it's not about putting her down, it's about criticizing a product related to gaming and that's pretty much what most of us do here on a daily basis. I don't think criticizing someone's performance at their job as a customer is offending at all, plus is something all people in media are exposed to.

I bet GB can make a better choice to invite to the table and discuss GOTY.

Their A/V crew is pretty damn good; they could use some improvements in preparation and audio balancing, but over all they know their tech pretty well.

Though, admittedly, there is an incredibly fine line between criticizing and attacking someone, and think it's probably one of the most difficult things to do to be able to present it in a way that ISN'T offensive. I believe the only and best way to do that is try to present it as an interpretation of facts, that way you have factual support to present with the criticism; metrics showing poor employee performance, for example.

While she isn't the best at articulating her criticism, as well as some of her points being diverse, as you say only time will tell with how she'll deal with that. Same thing with people who currently do that to others online, say about Abby's performance lol. Just humans being humans...learnin' and shit.

I've taken a break from their content before; don't feel bad about it! Even if you don't come back to it, if you feel you don't want to listen anymore or only want to give them a few more chances, definitely do so!

Why torture yourself eh? Their content can mature over time, just like yours can Just maturing in different directions.

 

[Dunki]

1. Her love for Dream Daddy and her explaining why

I never thought this was something to care about. The list always has some loved by one crew member game as number 10. But her reasoning was also pretty bad. No it was not something special in this genre. The game is full of tropes and cliches something you can almost see in every Yaoi or Otome game.

And then when they started the NN dating sim corner their games were fucking awful. There was no real interest in the genre in the end.

And people hate her for her Nier talk and lies not because she got a niche game in the list.

oh an cuphead should be higher on the list

 

[Acestanley]

Abby’s GOW commentary, while ridiculous, wasnt the most cringeworthy moment of their game of the year for me. That distinction goes to their GOTY coverage of Battlefield V. Jeff: “This does not go in the most disappointing category. There is nothing wrong with the game and noone here in this entire company is disappointed by any aspect of the game whatsoever even though we all played the last one and nobody played this one...”, but if it were an HR woman getting fired for harassing customers, we’d get 30 minutes on both shows about how gamers are toxic, men are evil, and life isnt fair for these poor oppressed women in gaming. BFV’s situation was one of the biggest gaming controversies this year. To bury the story to protect an agenda is frustrating to listen to.

 

[A.Romero]

Their A/V crew is pretty damn good; they could use some improvements in preparation and audio balancing, but over all they know their tech pretty well.

Though, admittedly, there is an incredibly fine line between criticizing and attacking someone, and think it's probably one of the most difficult things to do to be able to present it in a way that ISN'T offensive. I believe the only and best way to do that is try to present it as an interpretation of facts, that way you have factual support to present with the criticism; metrics showing poor employee performance, for example.

While she isn't the best at articulating her criticism, as well as some of her points being diverse, as you say only time will tell with how she'll deal with that. Same thing with people who currently do that to others online, say about Abby's performance lol. Just humans being humans...learnin' and shit.

I've taken a break from their content before; don't feel bad about it! Even if you don't come back to it, if you feel you don't want to listen anymore or only want to give them a few more chances, definitely do so!

Why torture yourself eh? Their content can mature over time, just like yours can Just maturing in different directions.

I think that if anyone was inclined as to measure her performance, a matrix could be made and filled with everyone's opinions of their GOTY candidates (I'm focusing on that because that's the only content I've consumed where she is a player). I'm pretty sure it would be evident how all of her opinions pushing Dream Daddy were too abstract ("I don't know, I just feel it has charm", "I don't know, I feel it has great artwork", etc) while the rest of the team had better articulated opinions. Personally, I don't care enough as to measure but I feel I'm not as biased and left with the impression that she was too pushy and not professional enough in presenting her point. It's been a year and I still remember it!

I don't think she should lose her job but there are other ways they can prepare her for one of their flagship products before throwing her to the wolves.

I mean, I work as a COO for an IT company and would probably make the company suffer if I put forward someone who is not ready to participate in the development of a product or maybe even a meeting with a customer. It's just the way business works.

 

[Shai-Tan]

God I hate threads like this that always end up turning into "let's nitpick and shit on x". This is not unlike those celebrity gossip sites that end up reflecting on the commenters and their personal hangups more than the person they are being critical of. I stopped following GB outside of quicklooks after Ryan Davis died and while I can see something to the criticism that they aren't as fun as they used to be, turning it into an election or pile on a particular person is just bad form that contributes to internet witch hunts. The same types of whiny resentments are what led to that Kinda Funny dude Colin Moriarty being unpersoned and yet that is seen as an injustice by a particular type of person who is tediously internet shaming someone like Abby Russel

 

[strange headache]

And people hate her for her Nier talk and lies not because she got a niche game in the list.

Indeed, her seething contempt for Nier is testament to her inability to put aside her personal convictions in order to review a game for what it is. If you are that triggered about a sexy butt in a video game that features one of the most intriguing and meaningful story lines I've ever encountered in a video game, you have no business reviewing games.

In her views this is GOTY material:

But somehow this is pure unadulterated sexism:

It's that sort of hypocritical double standard that makes her criticism seem arbitrary and lazy. The sad fact is that she'll never evolve as a game commentator, as long as she considers any sort of criticism as a personal attack on her identity.

 

[HagglesworthMD]

This throws up a really interesting question for me, which sits at the heart of much of this discussion.

In 2018, now that we have access to Youtube, and Twitch, and Reddit, and a million other opportunities for self-publishing one's opinions to an international audience, what is a critic?

Historically - and this is my informal, off the top of my head definition so take it with a grain of salt - a critic was an individual who had accrued a cachet of either industry or academic experience in a specific discipline or medium, and by combining this with superior writing/communication skills, offered the general public both a sense of the consumer value of a good/work/object, and a more advanced analysis through cultural/critical/theoretical lenses. Examples of this might be Pauline Kael or George Plimpton, or Hunter S. Thompson, or Lester Bangs. These were highly experienced craftspeople working in and around their disciplines, with bodies of work that could be scathing and deeply assaultive towards their objects of inquiry, but they also had the power to enhance the experience of consumption by highlighting one or more aspects of the piece, and the context around it.

Fast forward to 2018. What's a critic?

A critic is a person employed by what is, largely, a failing industry. They may have extensive experience (Jeff Gerstman), or simply be likeable (Dan Ryckert), or have no experience whatsoever (Abby Russell). They may don themselves in the academic trappings of traditional criticism (Austin Walker), or they may see criticism as an instrument for advancing their political agenda in the name of 'doing better' (Patrick Klepek). Ultimately, though, the thing that defines them as a critic is simple - they are a critic because that is the job title that they hold. They rarely offer insights that are any more advanced, challenging, or revelatory than those offered by sNiP0R-mAdMaN2003's Youtube channel, or by the Redditor who was gifted gold because he thinks Warframe is better than Destiny.

Their work is, however, a product of the age in which we live. For the most part it is shallow, traffic-driven, and obsessed with views, clicks, and engagement telemetry. These are not people who are invested in the rigorous study of a discipline. Their function has been almost completely displaced by player-driven citizen media. What makes Jeff's, Brad's, or Abby's opinions any more important or revelatory than those posted to NeoGAF every day?

The answer is - they're not. There's nothing special or unique about any of the stuff that GiantBomb does. Their utility has been completely erased by Youtube and Twitch. So, they're substituting politics as cruise control for controversy, in an attempt to boost their traffic, and please CBS. They are riding that digital wave while the riding is still possible. There is no video game equivalent of Lester Bangs reviewing Astral Weeks, not yet, anyway. And, if there ever is, facile dinosaurs like the Giant Bomb crew are not going to be the ones to deliver it.

Great post.

One needs only to listen to Giant Bomb's disdain for Steam user reviews to get a gauge of how they see their role in the industry going forward.

 

[bumleforce]

If this was resetera everyone talking about this would be banned by now

 

[Optimus Lime]

It's that sort of hypocritical double standard that makes her criticism seem arbitrary and lazy. The sad fact is that she'll never evolve as a game commentator, as long as she considers any sort of criticism as a personal attack on her identity.

The problem isn't that identity is used as one tool of analysis or critique. That's a fairly standard practice amongst critics, scholars, and academics across the disciplines.

The problem is that identity, in these cases, is being wielded by people who do not really know how to use it as an analytical instrument.

The controversy around Kingdom Come: Deliverance is a perfect example of that. Vavra's comments fell into two categories - trolly jokes that were clearly intended to irritate pretentious and sanctimonious left wing critics, and defenses of the racial composition of the game, based on the history of the region. The 'I'm on the right side of history' set (Walker, Klepek, etc.) cannot abide the former, as they read it not as an attempt to prick their bubble of self-importance, but on the forces of 'rightness' themselves. They are on the 'correct' side of history, therefore, their actions and words are - by default - agents of positive social change, and must not be ridiculed.

The second example saw two different conversations being run concurrently. The first involved Daniel Vavra justifying the design of Kingdom Come: Deliverance in terms of pure historical accuracy. I'm no historian on the region, and can't really attest to the accuracy of his claims, but I can certainly attest to the fundamental premise of his argument.

The counter to that argument that was presented by Walker, Klepek, and their supporters at Giant Bomb, was that there is simply no way that Kingdom Come: Deliverance's design with regards to race could have roots in anything other than 'white privilege', 'racism', and the 'erasure' of non-white identities in the region. They simply could not acknowledge that, perhaps, Vavra's argument was less racial than it was historical, and to suggest otherwise was to argue in 'bad faith' etc.

So, in that example, identity could have been a great opportunity to think about history, about the way that history is framed through culture, about the unfixed nature of history, and the ways that art can amplify, distort, or distill history (and histories). Instead, it devolved very quickly into 'RACISM BAD', and the typical 'deplatforming' nonsense that is associated with it.

Again, these people are not critics. They are glorified bloggers. The brouhaha around Kingdom Come: Deliverance raises the same really interesting questions about the nature of video game criticism in 2018, and delivers the same concerns.

 

[Optimus Lime]

If this was resetera everyone talking about this would be banned by now

That's very true. Which is why I post here more than there. At ResetEra, I have to constantly parse every sentence to make sure that they are scrubbed clean of anything that might upset anyone for any reason. I'm able to just talk to you guys here freely, even if we all disagree, and I really like that.

 

[Sqorin Hammerfarf]

In her views this is GOTY material:

She likes dad butts and she cannot lie. You other brothers can't deny. When a dad walks in with an itty bitty waist and a round thing in her face, she gets sprung, want to pull up tough. 'Cause she noticed that butt was stuffed. Deep in the jeans he's wearing, she's hooked and she can't stop staring. Oh daddy, she want to get with ya, and take your picture. Her homegirls tried to warn her, but that butt he's got's a hand warmer.

 

[Ailike]

If this was resetera everyone talking about this would be banned by now

That's all well and good, but its not really helpful to say things like that. To many people seemed entirely focused on what other boards might do. It just smacks of "But...but...but..." If the best someone can to do to further discourse is point to what someone else might say it doesn't really further your cause. It just looks petty. So let's be above that. I'd like to think we all stuck around here for the good of -this-, not because of the bad of -that-.

 

[cdthree]

I mean you really can't win a argument with a hardened SJW. Everyone has a right to their opinion, so the best thing a consumer can do is vote with their wallets. Don't like being preached too by holier than thou smuge people? Continue buying games like GTA, RDR, and JRPG's with their naughty bits. Talk to everyone you know in supporting these types of games. Don't support games like Battlefield V. If they get to publishers, there is always indie stuff. Eventually the pendulum will snapback hard the other way. Usually dependent on the force being applied. It's that old frog analogy. Put a frog in pot of water and slowly bring it to a boil he won't notice he is being cooked to death. But if you put a frog in boiling water he will jump out.

 

[A.Romero]

I mean you really can't win a argument with a hardened SJW. Everyone has a right to their opinion, so the best thing a consumer can do is vote with their wallets. Don't like being preached too by holier than thou smuge people? Continue buying games like GTA, RDR, and JRPG's with their naughty bits. Talk to everyone you know in supporting these types of games. Don't support games like Battlefield V. If they get to publishers, there is always indie stuff. Eventually the pendulum will snapback hard the other way. Usually dependent on the force being applied. It's that old frog analogy. Put a frog in pot of water and slowly bring it to a boil he won't notice he is being cooked to death. But if you put a frog in boiling water he will jump out.

I agree. I mean, why would anyone want to win an argument with a SJW? As flawed as their arguments might seem, it's just an opinion. It's not worth it to try to convince anyone, specially if they have already made their mind.

It's best to show support for the products we want and hope that the support for the products that we like is higher than the support for the products they like.

 

[Neolombax]

I'll be honest, I never understood the issues with SJW's, left wings or right wings. These are very confusing concepts to me. Not that this adds anything to said discussion, I just thought I'd say this randomly.

In any case, I think its ruining video games. Games used to be games, until suddenly they carried political messages. Maybe it did back then, but nobody seemed to care (I think). It was either fun or it had shit controls or shit 3rd person camera angles.

 

[Rodolfo Brito]

You personally can just dislike her takes and listen mainly for the people that you do like. I like maybe 33% of her takes, but I can respect about 66% of her takes. The last 34% are utter trash opinions (your example of her opinion of God of War is an example of this).

But at some point, you need to be able to tolerate people that you disagree with. Everyone doesn't have to agree with you or have your same perspective.

I mostly deal just fine with different opinions. But, she being 100% salty about God of War for those shitty reasons was the last straw.

I really don't agree with the points some people are making in some posts above yours. I don't think they went full SJW because they still have the main podcast which she does not participate and most of the time is just fine, even when I firmly disagree with them.

 

[RiccochetJ]

Eh, I don't have a problem with her. In fact, I like a lot of content she produces on the site. There's nothing that should be done other than not listening and unsubbing if you do. I'm listening to it now and Vinny is challenging her on it. I also thought that she pointed out something where I went, "Huh, she pointed out an observation that I did't notice but looking at it now, she's right." Now I'm not put off by what happened in the game or her raising an issue she has.

I think the only thing that raised my eyebrow is at the very end when she basically said, "Guess what? I don't give a fuck." It just makes it extremely easy for me to dismiss her going forward if that's the only way she can finish a debate.

 

[Dr. Claus]

I agree. I mean, why would anyone want to win an argument with a SJW? As flawed as their arguments might seem, it's just an opinion. It's not worth it to try to convince anyone, specially if they have already made their mind.

It's best to show support for the products we want and hope that the support for the products that we like is higher than the support for the products they like.

The issue is that these types are actively changing gaming for the worse. Battlefield V and the continued baseless censorship/attacks on Japanese games predicated on lies and misinformation being pushed by gaming "journalists" are just the latest examples.

 

[Rodolfo Brito]

She has an opinion you disagree with. She's entitled to her opinion and you are entitled to disagree with it. She isn't ruining anything. All Abby does is bring a different voice to the discussion. I didn't personally agree with everything she said in regards to women in God of War. I didn't see a problem with the mother being dead to start the game. It was the entire catalyst for the story and I felt I learnt a lot about her through Kratos and his son's journey.

I actually kind of agreed with what they had to say about Freya.

It seemed like everyone else in the room didn't exactly agree with all her points either but they weren't offended enough to make it into a big deal. They just accepted her point and moved on.

I'm not sure why this is all so troubling for you.

The troubling part for is that seems that she is just pushing a political agenda.

I bet she wouldn't be so upfront about those supposedly tropes that she pointed if this wasn't a high budget AAA blockbuster.

And she always brings those weird mobile games that no one else played (or just Vinny played with her). I get the objective of "making a piece" about games they felt good about, but her opinions are unbalanced sometimes and she just seems "legit" when she's talking about weird shit that no one knows about.

 

[Nymphae]

They did NOT delete it from the Quick Look, by the way.



I would implore you to either edit your post or to have it removed.

Huh, totally missed that, thanks!

 

[Rodolfo Brito]

I don't care and I move on with my life because it's not a big deal. I'm not being persecuted and I'm not going to cry foul over video games.

Sorry for talking about discussing games in a gaming discussion forum.

I should have been more careful.

 

[Silent Viper]

I would have supported her if she was hot like Naomi or Mary kish nd all. But she aint hot plus annoying who pushes unnecessary agendas during deliberation. So screw her and her opinion

 

[A.Romero]

The issue is that these types are actively changing gaming for the worse. Battlefield V and the continued baseless censorship/attacks on Japanese games predicated on lies and misinformation being pushed by gaming "journalists" are just the latest examples.

Well, yes but only because most companies don't know how to deal with the pressure of a vocal minority. They are learning and as long as they can sell more ignoring those cries, they will do so. So I think we can counter that movement better if we just throw money at it and stop from buying stuff that catters to their tastes at the expense of other important elements (like freedom).

 

[Teletraan1]

I stopped listening to them regularly shortly after Ryan passed. The few times I would tune in to listen to a GOTY or regular podcast that involved her I was less bothered by her opinions which I didn't agree with and more upset that the rest of the cast seemed incapable of challenging whatever she was saying. The old cast would have a back and forth that often resulted in entertaining discussion. That dynamic goes out the window when every other member of the podcast is too scared of the backlash they would receive for daring to challenge the monolith of ideology that has pretty much destroyed games journalism. None of her opinions were really unique, they were the same shit peddled by the likes of waypoint. I get more entertainment out of people interested in video game talking about video games and less with idpol warrior group think. There are infinite alternatives that offer the kind of content I want outside of the traditional sphere of gaming journalism.

 

[MrRogers]

Giant bomb's staff are a bunch of sackless losers. A polictized she-prog, (who is first and foremost a leftist agitator) enters their presence in the last couple years and the only thing they ask of her is "how high". They are hacks with a hack site and hopefully for a new years surprise they get shuttered.

 

[Dr. Claus]

Well, yes but only because most companies don't know how to deal with the pressure of a vocal minority. They are learning and as long as they can sell more ignoring those cries, they will do so. So I think we can counter that movement better if we just throw money at it and stop from buying stuff that catters to their tastes at the expense of other important elements (like freedom).

That is an optimistic way to look at it, but as we saw at the launch party of Battlefield V as well as the developer posts on sites like Era, that mindset is engrained in the very essence of that studio now. Unless they get the orders from higher up, I don't see it changing.

I skipped purchasing the game, as did almost everyone I know. I don't even know anyone in my town that gave the game as a gift this Christmas. Doin' my best to put my money where my mouth is, but I am not sure that will fix everything.

 

[PuppetMaster]

Freya is too OP.

Probably one of the strongest characters in that universe. Has the magic to make things unkillable. Not sure what the problem is. Not a weak character by any rational metric.


But I don't have any problem with Abby. She is wrong here. But if I stopped listening to someone just for being wrong, I would have no one to listen to!.

 

[LegendOfKage]

Saw this earlier in the thread, and wanted to respond:

I didn't say the OP wasn't entitled to his opinion. I genuinely don't know why Abby's opinions would be so troubling for anyone.

And I don't know why the depiction of women in God of War would be so troubling for Abby, but here we are.

It's troubling that we are on a discussion forum that emphasizes free thought yet we have a thread that wants to suppress someone's voice because they disagree with her stance.

I really don't want her voice suppressed. I want just ONE person on staff to say "You are NOT "the woman's voice," in this discussion. You are one woman. You are one person. And your opinions are both shared and disagreed with by men and women alike." If anyone on the staff would strongly disagree with her, I'd be fine with her voice. As it is, I don't want her to lose her voice, I want the rest of the staff to find theirs.

...she will assert herself as an authority for women as a class, which gives people little to no room for disagreement. I can recall several moments like this met with awkward silence. People are going to notice stuff like this, especially if it's on a website they've frequented for years and years.

Exactly that.

She actually jokes that bringing up the subject of women in God of War will probably have people discussing her criticism for the rest of her career.

When I saw this thread it made me laugh because she's probably right.

This is just like "even my children understand [insert hyper-politicized and or bigoted belief here]." Well of course they do, they're YOUR children! Racist people have racist children. Parents who see sexism in everything will have kids who do the same. That's not an argument.

The fact is, "I knew just as soon as I said something that a lot of people would find stupid, that a lot of people would find it stupid" isn't much of an argument either. The fact that you acknowledge a lot of people will disagree with you doesn't help your argument, and it certainly doesn't "prove you right."

But at least she actually did like God of War, and isn't trying to just torpedo it off the list, like she did with "problematic" games last year, so I suppose that is something. But consider the vanity of taking a game you enjoyed and then lamenting over the fact that it didn't support your political ideology better than it did? Sorry, but yeah, a lot of people are going to find that kind of insufferable.

 

[Guiberu]

Still love Giantbomb.

Can't stand Abby.

Feels like she should be over at Waypoint to fully express how "progressive" she is.

Would genuinely enjoy GB content more if she didn't often come shrieking in with some blinkered hot-take on non-existent issues.

 

[Scopa]

I’m just shocked that Vinny found his balls that have been missing for the last year and a half, put them back in his sack and actually attempted to disagree with her. Shocked, I tell you. He must read GAF.

That was until he stated that he really wants to play Detroit. It’s the perfect game for him. But, he won’t because mumble, mumble something about it’s not the right time. French white dude isn’t allowed to write about racism, bigotry and segregation.

Nah, still the same gutless, no-ball Vinny. Why you change man? You used to be so cool.

 

[LegendOfKage]

That was until he stated that he really wants to play Detroit. It’s the perfect game for him. But, he won’t because mumble, mumble something about it’s not the right time. French white dude isn’t allowed to write about racism, bigotry and segregation.

Nah, still the same gutless, no-ball Vinny. Why you change man? You used to be so cool.

Are you accurately representing that? Is that really her take on Detroit? I haven't watched Giant Bomb coverage for years because of this kind of crap (hearing Jeff defend Jessica Price recently really cemented that for me) but that seems a bit much even for their staff. Any chance of a time-stamp?

 

[Inviusx]

GB has been a joke ever since Drew left. Since Abby/Ben joined I've completely stopped watching and visiting their site.

Hearing that the GOTY podcast is another shambles is no surprise and reaffirms my decision to abandon their content.