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LG C1 OLED--Question
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STARSBarry
Gold Member
So still no one bringing up the fact LG advise that you have to manually adjust your Black's if VRR is turned on, on a per game basis...
Like a major issue for black levels if you don't do this... and yet the average LG owner can't tell the difference and says "oh the picture is superior to anything I have ever seen", yeah... like colour blind people giving you advise on which colour to paint a strawberry.
This is a known issue because VRR unbalanced the whole picture when on and STILL DOES on LG flagship series unless you manually adjust it to fit the game. Of course while PS5 supports it, really it's more of an issue for Xbox Series X and PC if you have it plugged in (why use a panel that sucks with VRR on a PC?) as from my memory despite Sony declaring it's support I can't remember the last title to feature it.
For people that upgrade there TV every other year this won't be an issue, but if your buying for the console gen... well yeah will become an issue sooner or later.
Like a major issue for black levels if you don't do this... and yet the average LG owner can't tell the difference and says "oh the picture is superior to anything I have ever seen", yeah... like colour blind people giving you advise on which colour to paint a strawberry.
This is a known issue because VRR unbalanced the whole picture when on and STILL DOES on LG flagship series unless you manually adjust it to fit the game. Of course while PS5 supports it, really it's more of an issue for Xbox Series X and PC if you have it plugged in (why use a panel that sucks with VRR on a PC?) as from my memory despite Sony declaring it's support I can't remember the last title to feature it.
For people that upgrade there TV every other year this won't be an issue, but if your buying for the console gen... well yeah will become an issue sooner or later.
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NeonDelta
Member
ParaSeoul
Member
Putting on a desk so I'm going with the 48 inch one,wondering if i should just wait for whatever 42 inch OLED they launch next year but I'm not sure if it will be available in my region or if it is,just be A1 tier.
OmegaSupreme
advanced basic bitch
A minor issue at best. A complete non-issue for many. Still has superior PQ to whatever lcd you're trying to live with.
STARSBarry
Gold Member
You do realise the effect Black Level has on the entire picture right?
That infact no... if your black levels are shit you are infact going to have a worse PQ than an LCD...
because the huge improvement OLED brings to the table is in superior black levels... which is where a majority of it's high contrast ratio comes from... I'm not saying ALL OLED's suffer from this issue because they don't, its just that the C1 and CX DO suffer from this VRR issue that ruins the picture unless you adjust manually.
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ParaSeoul
Member
I would simply not use VRR.
STARSBarry
Gold Member
If you can't be bothered to adjust the levels then yes that's pretty much the viable solution. Just don't go using it as a PC monitor or your in for a bad time.
OmegaSupreme
advanced basic bitch
Then you adjust manually. Or don't use it. Quite simple. Maybe it's a deal-breaker for you or some other person. No tv is perfect. Oled is simply the best option we have right now.
The issue only manifests if you cannot maintain a solid 100-120fps at 120Hz, a major drop in FPS is needed to cause the gamma flicker. Why would you be attaching a crappy gaming PC to a very high end TV ?
For Xbox were some FPS is locked to 30/60 at 120Hz a value of -3 works for most games, and the exact same issue affects TV LCDs were PQ is far worse in VRR mode. In no way are OLED black levels with this adjustment equivalent or worse than LCD.
The only reason it became noticeable is because all monitor LCD's have garbage black levels and OLED exposed it once it got VRR support.
A dynamic gamma curve will solve the issue on future OLED's, LG are aware of it.
For Xbox were some FPS is locked to 30/60 at 120Hz a value of -3 works for most games, and the exact same issue affects TV LCDs were PQ is far worse in VRR mode. In no way are OLED black levels with this adjustment equivalent or worse than LCD.
The only reason it became noticeable is because all monitor LCD's have garbage black levels and OLED exposed it once it got VRR support.
A dynamic gamma curve will solve the issue on future OLED's, LG are aware of it.
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b0uncyfr0
Member
Honestly that VRR black shimmering at 120 fps was one of my main concern's and honestly, i haven noticed a damn thing. Granted, i do sit about 2.5 metres away normally but get fairly close when i wanna admire my purchase and still then, i haven't seen any kinda flickering.
Its something so minor, and honestly ask yourself, are you gonna change that setting for each game every time you start playing? The answer for me is no, its frankly not worth the effort and time.
Its something so minor, and honestly ask yourself, are you gonna change that setting for each game every time you start playing? The answer for me is no, its frankly not worth the effort and time.
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nowifenolife
Member
sorry to go off topic, but do any of you tv buffs know if my panasonic plasma is 60fps/hz. its over 10 years old model tx p50g30b. it says standard refresh rate is 50hz but enhanced is 600hz? that 600 must be marketing junk, i just want to know if i can get 60fps on it? i'll be getting a c1 in the next few weeks too
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Strider Highwind
Banned
One in the living room and one in the man cave. We love the set in our household
ParaSeoul
Member
Wasn't planning on it,using it for that seems to increase the chances of burn in.
ParaSeoul
Member
Have you tried connecting a console to it and seeing what it says?
Arioco
Member
According to Vincent, whose video you're using to bring up this issue, yes, all OLED suffer from this and he claims he's measured it on LEDs too. Apparently the issue is less noticeable on LEDs because their blacks are not that black, but yep, pretty much every VRR compatible TV is suffering from this.
STARSBarry
Gold Member
Iv had flicker on my Samsung monitor due to VRR however there latest firmware fixed it and it hasn't shown up again.
There TV's also received the same fix and its one of the few models that seems to be able to use VRR without negative consequence. There new Neo QLED with Micro LED's I am lead to believe does not suffer from this either even with its much deeper blacks.
Shame for OLED however.
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Lognor
Banned
Welp, I just bought the C1. I chose it over the A80J because I don't trust Sony to implement the additional features they promised to a year ago.
I'm excited to get it setup, but I heard that the C1 will not have the best picture out of the box and will require calibration in order to get the best picture possible. Question for those with the C1: Do you recommend professional calibration or can I follow the general calibrations instructions on a site like rtings.com?
I'm excited to get it setup, but I heard that the C1 will not have the best picture out of the box and will require calibration in order to get the best picture possible. Question for those with the C1: Do you recommend professional calibration or can I follow the general calibrations instructions on a site like rtings.com?
OmegaSupreme
advanced basic bitch
I came from a professionally calibrated plasma to the c1. I honestly can't see much of a difference. I'd go with the settings you see on rtings or perhaps the owner's thread on avs forums. These things are pretty damn accurate out of the box. Put it in cinema, filmmaker or isf, and you're 90 percent there.
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STARSBarry
Gold Member
Considering this is the picture quality most of the people gushing about the TV will be using, I don't think you will have any issue with the out the box picture.
Ulysses 31
Member
I wouldn't just blindly do what sites likes RTINGS say, learn what the settings do and settle with settings that most please your eyes.
Lognor
Banned
Ahh...that's interesting. I've done so much research between the C1 and A80J over the past month trying to decide between them and more than one outlet said the C1 requires some calibration out of the box. I'm not a videophile so I'll just use the out of the box settings and save the money on the professional calibration.
Arioco
Member
I own a PS5 so I've never experienced the issue myself, I was just quoting Vincent Teoh, who has spoken about the flickering on many occasions.
On the other hand the issue has been acknowledged not by LG, but the OLED Association itself, which means that it does affect every current OLED TV. I guess it's something they will work out in future models, but right now it seems to be a limitation of the OLED technology at a hardware level. As far as I know HDMI Forum is not done with HDMI 2.1 specs just yet.
https://www.oled-a.org/lgersquos-48rdquo-oled-attracting-game-monitor-buyers_9620.html
its not arguing when you state facts. oled has worse motion then crt and plasma ,go argue with digital foundry .i also own oled sony and i know its negatives
nowifenolife
Member
I tried looking in my xbox one x settings yesterday but couldn't find anything to indicate 60.
However, after reading your comment I thought let me check the ps5 and yes, it says 1920x1080 60hz. So thanks
StateofMajora
Banned
It’s still a half baked tech clearly.
And bfi >>>>> vrr esp. when that bfi works great and it definitely definitely does on c1!
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Dave_at_Home
Member
As someone that returned two Samsung QN90As, I can tell you for a fact (outside of overall brightness) that it doesn't hold a candle to the LG C1 (which I now own). When it comes to raised black levels with VRR, LG still dominates. Samsung's tone mapping tends to be way the fuck off and it's local dimming is nerfed when in game mode. Does it still look good? Yes. Is there a lot more blooming and instances where the local dimming doesn't react fast enough? Yes and yes. I'd also like to add utilizing 120hz forces the Samsung to use even less picture processing. Your mileage may vary on how much you'll notice it and on what game though.
It certainly wasn't all bad. Bright scenes lookin incredible on the QN90A, but dark and mixed content tend to fall apart forcing the TV to rely on native contrast. Color is great too thanks to quantum dot but it needs a ton of tweaking to stop it from oversaturating and don't get me started on Samsung's tone mapping. Still a great TV overall. The main reason I returned two of them was due to absolutely fucking terrible dirty screen effect and vertical banding.
The C1 by comparison won me over with a clean screen (yay!), jaw dropping contrast, greater color accuracy out of box, and far superior motion handling. Brightness of the C1 seems damn good for my eyes too. As far as raised black levels in VRR, it's hard to tell. Maybe? I guess if it were bad enough I'd manually adjust it.
rofif
Can’t Git Gud
I am saying this and get heavily criticized.
Vrr works perfectly fine on an oled but with HZ changing, the near black levels also change. That's why it can even look as flicker.
I've noticed it in resident evil 2. When playing on pc with vrr, when you change in game fps limiter 60-120-30, you can see black level changing
RafterXL
Member
Two things about flickering and raised black levels. First, flickering rarely happens on my C1 and even when it does it's usually in menus of games, not during play. It happens when there are wild fluctuations in framerate. As for raised black levels with VRR, at no time does it "look like shit" and it's still better looking than ANY LED. The raised black levels effect LEDs as well and the reason you don't notice it is because black levels on LEDs are worse to begin with.
Plus the C1/G1 models don't even have that setting that is in the video linked earlier, they have White/Black stability settings which I've changed exactly one time since I bought the tv because it's handled better than the previous models. You absolutely do not need to change it for every game you play.
Basically, the idea that these are huge problems with OLEDs and that LEDs are better because of VRR flickering or raised black levels is absurd.
Plus the C1/G1 models don't even have that setting that is in the video linked earlier, they have White/Black stability settings which I've changed exactly one time since I bought the tv because it's handled better than the previous models. You absolutely do not need to change it for every game you play.
Basically, the idea that these are huge problems with OLEDs and that LEDs are better because of VRR flickering or raised black levels is absurd.
That's why you set your systems to 120hz and leave them alone.
OmegaSupreme
advanced basic bitch
Oled doesn't have worse motion than plasma. You are completely wrong. Go watch Vincents video comparing oled and plasma. Educate yourself then come back.
LavitzSlambert
Member
Anyone else getting a white flash problem with their C1? Randomly it seems like there is a flash of white from the edges of the screen.
go watch digital foundry video on crt ,and educate yourself
OmegaSupreme
advanced basic bitch
So you agree with me that plasma has been surpassed by oled in motion and every other aspect? Nice goalpost moving.
no because it doesnt. digital foundry states this. crt are still king then plasma then oled and last led
OmegaSupreme
advanced basic bitch
You value digital foundry over a well respected professional display calibrator who can prove everything with objective, scientific measurements? Okay then. Lmao
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midasmulligan
Member
just ordered my 77 C1, oh boy!
thatJohann
Member
Well fuck me.
Just got my C1 delivered yesterday from Amazon with an OCT 2021 manufacture date. My PS5 does show me a message that HDCP 2.3 is not supported and it’s currently displaying HDCP 1.4….
Just got my C1 delivered yesterday from Amazon with an OCT 2021 manufacture date. My PS5 does show me a message that HDCP 2.3 is not supported and it’s currently displaying HDCP 1.4….
Excess
Member
I'm getting ready to consider a newer model, either the C1 or the upcoming C2. I currently have a B7, and now that I play my PC on the OLED, I'm looking to use G-Sync. I succinctly remember that the VRR black level issue was at the hardware level, though, and that that's why the temporary fix for the C1 had to be done at a software level. I'm wondering if I should wait for the C2 or scoop up a C1 for cheap on Black Friday.
Any thoughts from current C1 owners about having to constantly fiddle with the black levels in VRR?
Any thoughts from current C1 owners about having to constantly fiddle with the black levels in VRR?
Jimmy_liv
Member
You're comparing a phone with a 65" TV.... Alrighty then!
Bergoglio
Member
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rofif
Can’t Git Gud
fucking hell bad luck.
But stick with it. It's worth it !!!
One thing - if you are using tv audio speakers - be sure to disable atmos nd their ai audio pro... and be sure to reeable sound mode you like 10 times a day.
The tv just keeps fucking changing audio to game optimizer and I prefer cinema much more
OmegaSupreme
advanced basic bitch
Get some external speakers? Maybe a small soundbar for your setup?
rofif
Can’t Git Gud
The TV have audio mode. I would still pipe sound through the tv...
And I sold my presonus e3.5 speakers because c1 speakers sound fucking fantastic in cinema audio mode. Like WTF these are TV speakers ?! there are 2x28watt speakers. And in cinema mode with disabled bullshit and bass boost (in ai settings) it sounds great. Honestly.
And for real real gaming I still just use sony pulse 3d. The dongle works great on pc. Then I don't care for speakers.
Btw. i opened the tv to check if technician connected everything correctly after he replaced my panel for green bright pixel few months ago.
It is super easy to open and replace parts.
BTW - THESE TVS ARE SERIOUSLY TOO THIN. Hard to not have one bent at least a little bit
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midasmulligan
Member
are you able to connect two bluetooth headphones at the same time and share the audio? Or will it only output to a single bluetooth headphone? We have a young child so my wife and I are exploring rocking headphones at night instead of having to read subtitles with every show lol
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Jimmy_liv
Member
I suppose my question would be how many ps5 and XSX games utilise HDR10+ because there are very few that use Dolby Vision?
Jaguar Victory
Member
Same. Is there no global control for this? AI Audio sounds like trash.
rofif
Can’t Git Gud
SEttings are saved per sdr/hdr on each input.
But something is fucked and tv thinks it's smarter than it should be an every time it detects gsync, or game or something, it switches audio to trash game optimizer...
And yes. the AI audio sucks ass. disable it and dolby atmos if you use stereo.
Just do AI acustic tuning and enable bass boost. It's in AI menu... then switch back to cinema mode 50 fucking times a day
DarkestHour
Banned
I want to get one but it looks like the base is too shallow and my soundbar will go above it.